16:00:12 <jgriffith> #startmeeting cinder
16:00:13 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Oct 16 16:00:12 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:14 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:16 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'cinder'
16:00:20 <jgriffith> hey everyone
16:00:22 <thingee> o/
16:00:29 <caitlin56> hi
16:00:33 <zhiyan> hello folks
16:00:34 <winston-d> hi~
16:00:42 <jgriffith> agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings
16:00:44 <avishay> hello all
16:00:52 <bswartz> hi
16:00:59 <jgriffith> I'll open it up for folks after we get through the basics real quick
16:01:21 <jgriffith> #topic status for Havana
16:01:39 <jgriffith> You may have noticed we did an RC3 last night/this morning
16:01:56 <zhiyan> good work jgriffith, two fixes.
16:01:57 <jgriffith> This hopefully will address the upgrade issues with mysql migrations
16:02:12 <jgriffith> zhiyan: yeah, the other one was fortuitous :)
16:02:30 <jungleboyj> jgriffith: Saw that.
16:02:38 <jgriffith> For anybody that didn't see: https://launchpad.net/cinder/havana/havana-rc3
16:02:54 <winston-d> hopefully no rc4?
16:02:57 <jgriffith> The thin LVM fix and the i8n fix I pushed to master didn't warrant IMO
16:03:05 <jgriffith> winston-d: please no
16:03:06 <jgriffith> :)
16:03:18 <jgriffith> it's time we move on and say good by to RC's for Havana
16:03:31 <jgriffith> besides the distro folks will murder me if I do another RC :)
16:03:38 <avishay> jgriffith: kudos on the release!
16:03:49 <jungleboyj> avishay: +2
16:03:53 <jgriffith> avishay: thanks, and kudos to everyone for pitching in!!
16:04:06 <jgriffith> hopefully you've all got some testing in on the RC bits
16:04:29 <jgriffith> I dont' really have much else on RC, just wanted to give that update incase folks didn't see it
16:04:32 <winston-d> what? test? :)
16:04:37 <jgriffith> anybody have any questions about RC?
16:04:40 <jgriffith> winston-d: haha!!!
16:04:52 <avishay> winston-d: just wait for bug reports from the field ;)
16:05:05 <winston-d> avishay: hah!
16:05:06 <jgriffith> avishay: winston-d I thought that's what the field was for "test"
16:05:07 <jgriffith> LOL
16:05:09 <jgriffith> just kidding
16:05:14 <avishay> haha
16:05:22 <jgriffith> alright... moving along
16:05:29 <jgriffith> #topic release-notes
16:05:43 <jgriffith> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Havana#OpenStack_Block_Storage_.28Cinder.29
16:06:10 <jgriffith> I've takena  stab, but there's a good bit probably missing
16:06:27 <jgriffith> it would be great if you have a feature that you worked on/added if you put something in the release notes about it
16:06:34 <jgriffith> also eharney I think that TODO is from you
16:06:38 <avishay> volume migration :(
16:06:46 <jgriffith> eharney: you want me to write something or shall you?
16:06:46 <thingee> Yes, there are a fair number of drivers that had config options deprecated. Please note these in the release notes. your users will love you.
16:06:54 <eharney> oh, yes, it is
16:06:58 <jgriffith> avishay: yes I didn't forget, I just went to bed when I got to it
16:07:06 <avishay> jgriffith: :)
16:07:14 <jgriffith> avishay: if you want to add something that woudl be fantastic
16:07:21 <eharney> i can
16:07:23 <avishay> jgriffith: will do
16:07:26 <jgriffith> winston-d: your qos changes should have some detail there as well
16:07:57 <winston-d> jgriffith: yep, and i still own everybody the doc.
16:08:00 <jgriffith> I'd like to have the fairly well buttoned up by the end of today if we can
16:08:10 <jgriffith> winston-d: Ohh yeahh!!  Thanks for reminding me :)
16:08:15 <jgriffith> s/me/us/
16:08:39 <jgriffith> winston-d: you're docs/comments in code and commit messages is great BTW
16:08:46 <jgriffith> much appreciated
16:09:39 <winston-d> jgriffith: thx, still working on doc for qos, should be ready tomorrow
16:09:59 <jgriffith> winston-d: great
16:10:23 <jgriffith> anything on Release Notes?
16:10:41 <jgriffith> cool
16:10:46 <jgriffith> #topic summit
16:10:56 <jgriffith> Ok, we've got a good list: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/topic/14
16:11:05 <jgriffith> now it's time to start figuring out what stays, what goes
16:11:24 <jgriffith> I plan to finally get around to working on this a bit today
16:11:39 <avishay> jgriffith: link is 'forbidden'
16:11:49 <jgriffith> so fair warning, if you have things in mind that you haven't proposed, it would be really good to get them up
16:11:57 <jgriffith> avishay: say whaaa
16:12:00 <jgriffith> OHHH
16:12:09 <jgriffith> hehe
16:12:21 <jgriffith> http://summit.openstack.org/
16:12:23 <jgriffith> sorry about that
16:12:32 <jgriffith> I gave you the link to my "special" page
16:12:34 <avishay> ctrl-f , search for cinder :)
16:12:53 <zhiyan> how to group-by-cinder...
16:13:01 <thingee> you can just order by topic
16:13:01 <jgriffith> avishay: you an also sort by cliking on topic
16:13:05 <jgriffith> thingee: +1
16:13:13 <avishay> oooh
16:13:15 <avishay> fancy
16:13:18 <zhiyan> thingee: cool
16:13:21 <avishay> thanks
16:13:30 <zhiyan> thanks
16:13:31 <jgriffith> So... if anybody sees anything here they don't want to talk about :)  let me know
16:13:46 <jgriffith> or if you want to volunteer to combine some sessions that would be great as well
16:14:01 <jgriffith> else I'll do it myself, and who knows how messed up it will be :)
16:14:09 <avishay> 22 topics, 11 slots?
16:14:15 <jgriffith> avishay: yeup
16:14:17 <jgriffith> yup
16:14:22 <jgriffith> the math doesn't quite work :)
16:14:34 <winston-d> each one have 22.5 mins, done
16:14:43 <winston-d> s/have/has
16:14:50 <jgriffith> winston-d: interesting idea
16:14:52 <avishay> :)
16:14:56 <jgriffith> lighting rounds for summit sessions
16:14:57 <jgriffith> LOL
16:15:06 <DuncanT-mob> Taskflow and ollie/my state taslk might be combinable
16:15:31 <jgriffith> DuncanT-mob: yeah, I would like to explore that
16:15:49 <jgriffith> think it would be good to have those talks simultaneously, just worried about fitting it all in time wise
16:15:55 <DuncanT-mob> I've been talking to harlowja and combining ideas
16:16:07 <jgriffith> yeah, that's awesome!
16:16:25 <jgriffith> I don't know how much additional harlowja has there
16:16:33 <jgriffith> but there are other topics that overlap as well
16:16:50 <jgriffith> like where do we go next (ie delete, backup etc) for taskflow
16:16:54 <winston-d> who proposed this topic? http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/212   Is he/she asking for a Q&A session or what?
16:16:56 <jgriffith> anyway... there's a lot there I think
16:17:09 <caitlin56> My proposal slightly overlaps with Avishay's
16:17:22 <thingee> winston-d: I was wondering the same thing
16:17:57 <jgriffith> winston-d: thingee good question
16:17:58 <DuncanT-mob> http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/212 might be talking about per-volume settings .v. per volume type settings...
16:17:58 <thingee> doesn't seem appropriate for the summit
16:18:05 <avishay> caitlin56: your proposal is great and i'm really interested in it, but not sure how much overlap there is with replication
16:18:06 <jgriffith> I don't know who Alex Jauch is either
16:18:45 <jgriffith> hmmm... he has a couple proposals that don't really *fit*
16:19:06 <jgriffith> seems to be a lack of understanding of existing architecture/purpose
16:19:18 <jgriffith> anyway... I'll see if I can track him down and clear some of those things up
16:19:34 <jgriffith> anything anybody kicking around that they want to get on the list quickly?
16:19:36 <DuncanT-mob> Unconference sessions are always a poossibility
16:20:03 <jgriffith> DuncanT-mob: yeah, that worked really well in SanDiego
16:20:15 <jgriffith> DuncanT-mob: didn't have quite as good a luck with them in Portland
16:20:32 <jgriffith> ie don't think we really had them in Portland :(
16:21:05 <caitlin56> How much time is there for unconference sessions that don't conflict with Cinder sessions?
16:21:13 <jgriffith> Ok, not much else to say here, unless yall want to start going through these as a group effort?
16:21:30 <jgriffith> caitlin56: unconf sessions are the same length/duration
16:21:32 <thingee> jgriffith: lets move it to #openstack-cinder
16:21:37 <thingee> after meeting
16:21:41 <jgriffith> caitlin56: it's just a matter of getting a room
16:21:48 <avishay> thingee: +1
16:21:48 <jgriffith> and coordinating everyone
16:21:53 <jgriffith> thingee: +2
16:22:14 <jgriffith> Ok, I had state machine on the agenda, but I think that's premature to open up in meeting time
16:22:28 <jgriffith> DuncanT-mob: ollie and harlowja are all working on things here
16:22:39 <jgriffith> so that's likely enough for now
16:22:52 <DuncanT-mob> Indeed, I've nothing much to say on the subject orther than I've been working on it and talking to harlowja about geting it into taskflow
16:23:06 <jgriffith> fair enough
16:23:07 <DuncanT-mob> (sorry, lagged)
16:23:15 <jgriffith> Okie Dokie
16:23:20 <jgriffith> #topic open-mic
16:23:22 <zhiyan> DuncanT-mob: any design draft can share with me?
16:24:05 <DuncanT-mob> zhylan: When I'm not mobile, yes. There's an etherpad and some scratch code
16:24:30 <caitlin56> I have a general question/concern and wanted to understand the history. A lot of nova people seem to think of cinder as "external storage" and prefer "native" hypervisor based storage.
16:24:42 <zhiyan> DuncanT-mob: cool. can you ping the link to me? thanks
16:24:51 <jgriffith> caitlin56: yes they do
16:25:08 <caitlin56> What can we do to discourage this. It can be wasteful, like they were talking about authenticating glimpse clones totally independent of cinder's existing cloning capabilities.
16:25:38 <jgriffith> caitlin56: keep providing and improving things like boot from volume for starters
16:25:53 <DuncanT-mob> Code was written by me so ugly as sin, just so you're wared ;-)
16:26:13 <caitlin56> Is cinder ready to state "you should be using Cinder for all volume services" if not, what is lacking?
16:26:45 <jgriffith> caitlin56: I don't think that's something that would work
16:26:50 <jgriffith> caitlin56: not that I would mind
16:27:01 <jgriffith> caitlin56: but it's just not realistic
16:27:09 <caitlin56> jgriffith: would't work politically or wouldn't work technically?
16:27:13 <winston-d> cinder is all for volume, nova folks even want cinder to manage native local disks during last summit
16:27:19 <jgriffith> both, but mostly politically
16:27:26 <jgriffith> winston-d: +1
16:27:34 <zhiyan> DuncanT-mob: actually i'm interested in what's your plan for taskflow-statemachine
16:27:44 <jgriffith> caitlin56: I think we're getting there, and will continue to make progress
16:28:05 <jgriffith> but you'll never convince everybody that they don't *need* some on-server disk storage
16:28:09 <zhiyan> DuncanT-mob: if you have any design doc/wiki, it will be great.
16:28:24 <jgriffith> that by the way was the whole idea that started brick
16:28:32 <jgriffith> before it got horribly side-tracked
16:28:43 * jgriffith apologizes for that
16:28:45 <caitlin56> jgriffith: I was more thinking of opposing enhanciung non-cinder storage -- such as the "certified clone" feature being discussed.
16:29:00 <jgriffith> caitlin56: I'm not familiar with that
16:29:12 <winston-d> jgriffith and hemnafk and eharney did great job on brick during H
16:29:33 <caitlin56> They want to check out clones directly from glimpse and effectively sign them for the hypervisors to use.
16:29:34 <jgriffith> winston-d: yeah... kudos to hemnafk eharney and everyone who worked on it
16:29:42 <jgriffith> I just didn't manage/communicate things well
16:30:15 <jgriffith> caitlin56: hmm... not sure about that.  But the work zhiyan has been doing should help get that sort of thing going in Cinder
16:30:15 <avishay> caitlin56: do you have a link to a blueprint or something?  i'm not aware of this
16:30:16 <caitlin56> jgriffith: I'll forward it to you.
16:30:29 <jgriffith> caitlin56: but they'll still want the locality feature of the image
16:30:45 <jgriffith> caitlin56: if you have a link post it here or in cinder later
16:30:51 <jgriffith> I'm sure others are interested as well
16:31:18 <caitlin56> You can never get anything to retreat, but keeping it from growing may be doable.
16:32:05 <jgriffith> caitlin56: yeah... sometimes just go with the flow though :)
16:32:19 <jgriffith> Ok, anybody have anything else?
16:32:27 <DuncanT-mob> caitlin: Somebody needs to code up the cinder-equivilant
16:32:35 <jgriffith> DuncanT-mob: +1
16:32:48 <jgriffith> which I'm sure we can do if we understand what they're tryign to accomplish
16:33:02 <jgriffith> I suspect it's part of the glance/cinder/RO work
16:33:12 <avishay> or they should just code it in cinder to begin with?
16:33:20 <jgriffith> avishay: well there's that :)
16:33:37 <jgriffith> let's not get too anxious on this since none of us seem to be familiar with it
16:33:43 <jgriffith> we'll figure it out
16:33:56 <jgriffith> all valid points though
16:34:07 <zhiyan> jgriffith: +1
16:34:12 <jgriffith> silos versus project
16:34:21 <jgriffith> ok... that's all I've got
16:34:29 * jgriffith is on a mission to have shorter meetings :)
16:34:42 <avishay> jgriffith: stable/havana tomorrow?
16:34:57 <jgriffith> avishay: not sure if it'll be tomorrow or not
16:35:00 <zhiyan> avishay: good point, i just want to raise this question :)
16:35:00 <jungleboyj> avishay: Good question.
16:35:13 <avishay> i already have a backport :(
16:35:29 <jgriffith> avishay: yeah, there are a few
16:35:40 <jgriffith> avishay: just make sure you tag the bug so we can track it
16:35:43 <jungleboyj> Gotta draw the line at some point though.
16:35:49 <jgriffith> avishay: and we'll get backports going asap when stable hits
16:36:00 <avishay> jgriffith: yup it's tagged, sure thing
16:36:06 <jgriffith> jungleboyj: +1, and it's been drawn
16:36:16 <jgriffith> jungleboyj: although we use pencil so it can be erased
16:36:18 <jgriffith> :(
16:36:21 <caitlin56> jgriffith,avishay: Avoiding Image Copying from srujana_cp on Oct 16 at 2:58 AM.
16:36:22 <avishay> jgriffith: and re-drawn, and re-drawn - but that's it!
16:36:41 <jgriffith> caitlin56: ahh
16:36:48 <jgriffith> caitlin56: that's somewhat different IIRC
16:37:54 <jgriffith> Ok, let's move over to #cinder for folks that have more they want to talk about
16:37:58 <jgriffith> thanks everyone!
16:38:02 <jgriffith> #endmeeting