16:02:13 #startmeeting cinder 16:02:14 Meeting started Wed Mar 19 16:02:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:02:15 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:02:16 :) 16:02:17 The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' 16:02:20 o/ 16:02:22 agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings 16:02:22 hello 16:02:24 o/ 16:02:26 hi all 16:02:28 o/ 16:02:37 Howdy all. 16:02:38 Let's get to it 16:02:49 Is there anybody from ProphetStor with us today? 16:03:14 hmmm... that's disappointing I had asked Steven to join us 16:03:18 let's come back to that topic 16:03:24 #topic bug-status 16:03:33 hi 16:03:53 #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 16:04:17 We have a couple unassigned to start with 16:04:23 guitarzan: you around? 16:04:51 I'd like to understand more of th expectations/desires on #1289931 16:05:10 I believe we all agreed that we should force same type only on clone and create from snap 16:05:19 Then use retype if one wishes to change it 16:05:37 But I haven't looked at the problem that guitarzan seems to have here with the None type 16:05:45 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1289931 16:05:47 Launchpad bug 1289931 in cinder "Can't restore volume to a different type than the snapshot" [High,New] 16:05:47 Does anybody have some detail on this? 16:06:32 hmmm... ok 16:06:42 seems I'm not getting anywhere on that 16:06:46 jgriffith: there were two issues in one bug 16:06:57 jgriffith: one is the DB migration, which should be fixed 16:07:24 jgriffith: the second is that clone was ignoring the requested volume type, we should outright return error if it doesn't match what we want 16:07:57 avishay: right 16:08:09 avishay: I *thought* I submitted a patch for that last part 16:08:11 anyway 16:08:22 I've assigned it to myself and will look at fixing the migration 16:08:28 jgriffith: you may have, i don't remember 16:08:29 jgriffith: cool 16:08:45 I'm still of the opinion that keeping the type is the right behavior here 16:08:51 ie requiring same type 16:08:57 yup 16:09:06 no disagreement here 16:09:07 i agree 16:09:20 Ok... next thing I'd like to talk about in terms of bugs 16:09:47 We're in that mode where it seems like a lot of folks submitted their code at the last minute and are now madly filing bugs 16:09:52 not cool 16:10:30 The other thing that's not cool is adding your bugs to the milestone target yourself 16:10:42 particularly without notifying anybody on the core team or me :) 16:10:53 anyway... it's time to get picky about what we target 16:11:20 also, not being targetted doesn't mean it won't be reviewed/merged 16:11:30 It just means it's not blocking the release 16:11:45 At this point I don't see any third party driver as blocking release 16:11:51 make sense? 16:11:51 any idea when we might cut RC1 ? 16:11:58 hemna: next week 16:12:00 jgriffith, Oh, I was adding some RC1 targets. Didn't realize that could block the release. Sorry. 16:12:14 jgriffith: I thought only a core could assign something to a milestone 16:12:21 jungleboyj: yeah, anything that's listed as targetted for RC1 means RC1 is dependent on it 16:12:22 jgriffith, +1 bugs are for bugs, not code that wasn't done until the last minute. 16:12:27 and thus is a "blocker" 16:12:47 makes sense 16:12:59 jgriffith, Thanks for the education. I won't do that any more than. :-) 16:13:02 kk 16:13:06 hehe 16:13:21 So we really need to be focused on the core stuff at this point 16:13:24 and there's no shortage there 16:13:42 I'm also fine with post-targetting 16:13:53 The only things I see as blockers right now: 16:14:09 Possibly the one we discussed regarding snapshot volume-types 16:14:38 The DB migration definitely 16:14:38 and this one: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1289931 16:14:43 Launchpad bug 1289931 in cinder "Can't restore volume to a different type than the snapshot" [High,New] 16:14:50 grrr 16:14:54 wrong link 16:14:58 jgriffith: you can't duplicate it? 16:15:07 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1294724 16:15:09 Launchpad bug 1294724 in cinder "c-api and c-vol emmit tons of oslo.messaging ERRORs on successful test runs" [Undecided,New] 16:15:15 guitarzan: honestly I haven't tried yet :( 16:15:19 guitarzan: but I will 16:15:26 guitarzan: I just wanted to talk to you about it 16:15:36 jgriffith: understood 16:15:39 guitarzan: because I know you seemed to want the ability to cast to new types 16:15:50 well, it's just a regression from grizzly 16:15:54 guitarzan: but that's very troubling to do that 16:15:56 or rather, more strict behavior 16:16:01 guitarzan: yeah 16:16:05 I understand how you guys feel about types 16:16:08 guitarzan: but TBH it was a bug in Grizzly 16:16:11 but you won't tie types to backends, so I'm at a loss 16:16:21 guitarzan: it should've never been allowed because in many config it won't work 16:16:29 hrmm the errors in that log are nova 16:16:34 hemna: haha 16:16:50 hemna: That's what I first said too... but they're not 16:16:55 hemna: look at c-api log 16:17:03 hemna: it's the oslo-messaging 16:17:15 hemna: it's a bit of a train wreck 16:17:21 goosh 16:17:25 ok I see those 16:17:26 pain 16:18:01 I started looking this morning... but frankly it's a mess 16:18:14 I was hoping flaper87|afk might be around to look/help since it's his work 16:18:42 I hate to just revert that change but that's what I'm leaning towards if I don't figure out something better by this afternoon 16:18:56 These OSLO syncs are proving to be pretty high risk 16:19:03 :( 16:19:08 and causing strange funky behaviors 16:19:09 that's not a good trend 16:19:18 hemna: nope, it's not :( 16:19:27 jgriffith: yea, oslo message has been pretty rough 16:19:55 anybody else have anything on bugs? 16:20:06 thingee: you just fixed one of the bug it brought in 16:20:12 FYI I plan to remove the bulk of the driver related bugs from the milestone target 16:20:20 +1 16:20:26 kk 16:20:44 winston-d: which in fairness was just making a unit test complex. 16:20:46 If you have something that's not there that you think should be (NOT 3'rd party driver related) let me know 16:21:21 Let's go to my next topic that I'm dieing to talk about :) 16:21:29 heh 16:21:38 #topic items to punt to Juno (immediate -2) 16:21:53 * avishay sets up the goal 16:21:59 punt away 16:22:07 If you see any of these "python 3" etc patches at this point -2 them right away 16:22:41 The same holds true for any more oslo syncs unless they are addressing a specific known bug that Cinder is encountering 16:22:46 jgriffith, ok 16:22:54 Seem reasonable to everybody? 16:23:03 i think so 16:23:52 jgriffith: same goes for adding tox rules and stuff like that? 16:23:55 I understand there might be special cases but in general 16:24:01 avishay: I think so yes 16:24:09 I see no value in those things 16:24:14 Agreed. 16:24:15 yeah, anything cosmetic 16:24:25 Honestly we should be using the same criteria that we use for backports at this point 16:24:30 or at least very close to it 16:24:44 +1 16:24:49 sounds good 16:25:08 Ok 16:25:12 Makes sense. 16:25:16 anybody have anything they want to add on that topic? 16:25:48 Oh, I had a question. 16:25:55 jungleboyj: go for it 16:26:08 Do we have a way of tracking the items that we have -2'd to hold for Juno? 16:26:20 So we ca go back and clean those up? 16:26:24 jungleboyj: other than the comments in the review no 16:26:37 jungleboyj: you can do gerrit queries on the -2 16:26:42 I don't think there is a process for that other than reading the comments really. 16:26:48 hemna: +1 16:26:53 the important ones should have bugs or blueprints anyway 16:26:58 eharney: +1 16:27:02 eharney, +1 16:27:09 jgriffith, Ok. Was just checking. I made a note in one the other day and -2'd it. 16:27:24 jgriffith, Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something else I needed to do. 16:27:25 Yeah... LP is our friend here 16:27:54 It doesn't seem that people submit without a bug or bp very often any more 16:27:58 so we should be ok 16:28:07 and honestly if they care enough they'll be back 16:28:07 in LP, next = Juno for now? 16:28:19 eharney: that's what I've been doing 16:28:22 k 16:28:26 eharney: or just leave untargetted 16:28:36 eharney: then when juno opens I'll start triaging them again 16:28:42 I assume we are REQUIRING a bug for any patches being sent at this point. Correct? 16:28:49 jungleboyj: uhhh yeah 16:29:02 heheh yah I would hope so. 16:29:04 jungleboyj: That's what my whole topic was here :) 16:29:16 jungleboyj: read your scroll-back for more detail :) 16:29:24 :-) Well, good, we are talking the same language. 16:29:28 jungleboyj: hehe 16:29:36 Ok, it was a silly question. Just stating it. 16:29:40 ok... shall we move on to jungleboyj 's topic on CI? 16:29:46 jungleboyj: no silly questions 16:29:55 jungleboyj: I mean "There are No" 16:30:03 * jungleboyj laughs 16:30:16 Better to ask and make sure we're all on the same page than risk confusion 16:30:30 I found that out last week. ;-) 16:30:34 haha 16:30:37 Ok... moving on 16:30:45 jgriffith: thingee any updates minimum driver requirements for juno? #link https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/doc/source/devref/drivers.rst managed/unmanage? retype? 16:30:51 #topic CI for cinder cert 16:30:58 ooh 16:31:23 Ok, so, I have been getting some questions on this topic from my driver developers here. 16:31:44 I don't know if this is a huge thing to discuss right now or something to discuss at the Summit. 16:31:50 kmartin: we usually give one release to catch up 16:32:03 kmartin: and I'm still trying to kill that whole thing 16:32:06 kmartin: those aren't core api features, so no. 16:32:14 cool 16:32:14 kmartin: and have things implcit based on tempest tests 16:32:19 yea i would put either for required, ever 16:32:33 Just wondering how serious we are about doing CI for the driers in Juno and if so, then we need to start putting some definition around the expectations for how it will work. 16:32:42 ok 16:32:45 lol 16:33:01 jungleboyj, thingee had a patch that tried to explain it all 16:33:09 hemna: that's diff 16:33:17 but I think we are holding off on it for Juno to start no? 16:33:27 I think jungleboyj is referring to the 3'rd party gating stuff 16:33:29 there was the wiki page 16:33:29 jungleboyj: no? 16:33:33 hemna, Yeah, I know what youa re talking about. I am talking about having the 3rd party tests. 16:33:39 hemna: I gave up on that patch. I'm fine with it being in the wiki. 16:33:44 Right, the automatic run of the certifiation. 16:33:48 gah ok. 16:34:00 #link http://www.joinfu.com/2014/02/setting-up-an-openstack-external-testing-system-part-2/ 16:34:01 I'm not sure anyone reads the wiki, but ok. 16:34:02 hemna, :-) Even scarier issue. 16:34:38 I haven't had much input on making this mandatory 16:34:48 * jungleboyj uses the wiki. :-) 16:34:48 huh 16:34:51 Hoping to see peer pressure take over here and make people just want to opt in 16:35:16 so making a jenkins slave available for cinder driver testing against real h/w ? 16:35:18 Ok... I obviously don't know what jungleboyj and hemna are talkign about :) 16:35:22 hemna: yes 16:35:25 goosh 16:35:28 heh good luck with that 16:35:38 hemna: ok :) 16:35:41 I seriously doubt that HP would allow that for us. :( 16:35:44 so that's now what we're talkign about 16:35:48 hemna: why? 16:35:52 nova does it 16:35:54 * avishay ducks 16:35:57 ^ NetApp is going to do this 16:36:00 jungleboyj: maybe you could clarify what your point was here? 16:36:03 I'd love to do it 16:36:13 Let's table that for now 16:36:17 but that opens up a whole can of IT/security worms that I have zero control over. 16:36:21 Ok. The main concerns here were what is the timeframe. How reliable do the 3rd party servers have to be to run the tests. What does it mean if the patch fails on a 3rd party test? 16:36:27 Those sorts of things. 16:36:28 hemna: run it in the cloud 16:36:28 hemna: it's a push, not a pull 16:36:40 jungleboyj: wait... back up 16:36:49 I was actually looking at setting this up internally 16:36:55 jungleboyj: so you are talking about the link I just sent? Third party CI environment? 16:37:01 against our own internal CI system we have in place 16:37:21 because even internally we don't have our arrays available except in my own lab 16:37:22 jungleboyj: ??? 16:37:25 jgriffith, Yes. 16:37:28 jungleboyj: I think the 3rd party tests woudl be non-voting 16:37:29 Ok 16:37:34 So here's my take on that 16:37:39 so if they're flaky it's not the end of the world 16:37:39 I love the idea 16:37:42 jgriffith, Great. 16:37:45 I tihnk it's great if everyone does it 16:37:50 bswartz, That would be good. 16:38:03 I'd like to talk about it at the summit 16:38:08 jgriffith, +1 16:38:13 I am not interested in making it mandatory today 16:38:14 jgriffith, +2 16:38:19 but I think it's going to get to that point 16:38:37 jgriffith, Talking K release maybe, or L? 16:38:41 Honestly I have other ideas like "removing 3'rd party drivers from cinder/trunk" altogether 16:38:41 I can at least start the discussion internally here and see if we can do it. 16:38:53 ! 16:39:01 hemna, That is why I brought it up. 16:39:10 that's a very interesting idea 16:39:24 guitarzan: I've tried it before and failed miserably 16:39:25 IBM is willing to investigate it and do it but we need to start planning money/hardware. 16:39:30 jgriffith: not a bad idea 16:39:33 We have done it for DB2. 16:39:55 jgriffith, How would they be removed? 16:39:58 jungleboyj, same here. We'd have to dedicate a few servers and arrays in order to do it. 16:40:18 jungleboyj: so they'd become external libs 16:40:34 jgriffith, Interesting. 16:40:39 jungleboyj: and we'd have to have some pretty strict interface compat checking in the code 16:40:41 jungleboyj: there is a setup for doing it with Nova for PowerKVM 16:40:41 jungleboyj: cd cinder/volume; rm -rf drivers; git commit -a :) 16:40:49 oh man, I think that opens up a big can of worms. 16:41:08 avishay, :-p 16:41:18 this was brought up for grizzly too, and voted down 16:41:26 hemna: I'd argue that if you look at the bulk of commits this cycle it would actually be less a can of worms :) 16:41:40 avishay: yeah... I'm certain it'll be squashed 16:41:47 there's not a lot of difference in being out of tree and the current situation 16:41:49 anyway... it's not really relevant right now 16:41:50 well I think it opens up cinder to even more driver feature fragmentation. 16:41:53 but yea, it's a huge waste of time for core members 16:42:05 guitarzan: except I don't have to review your code and triage your bugs :) 16:42:14 jgriffith: right, that's both good and bad 16:42:20 guitarzan: indeed 16:42:26 double-edged sword 16:42:31 you're probably right that folks will balk at it 16:42:46 jgriffith, So, the net sounds like: This isn't going to be required for Juno, we are going to start talking about it and we will discuss it further at the Summit to get started. 16:42:49 guitarzan: I'm sure they will... but I'm going to propose we're more strict on driver churn 16:43:03 jgriffith: or go the opposite way and say "buyer beware" 16:43:09 jungleboyj: don't know which topic you're on 16:43:17 guitarzan: yeah 16:43:21 ci for 3rd party is definitely not required 16:43:26 jgriffith, Sorry, for the CI topic. 16:43:31 guitarzan: it's not required right now on 16:43:32 no 16:43:34 right 16:43:38 jgriffith, /3rd party test. 16:43:45 jgriffith: if we can setup a google doc or something on the communication. I would like to take our approach like we did with driver requirements and reach out to maintainers very early. like now 16:43:57 i don't think many people would be interested in a storage product with a big "buyer beware" sticker on it 16:44:05 thingee: not sure what you have in mind? 16:44:10 thingee: I mean, sure... 16:44:13 avishay: then that vendor better make sure it works 16:44:19 thingee: any communication is good and the earlier the better 16:44:21 oh *not* required in juno 16:44:24 hmm 16:44:28 just not sure which topic you're referring to 16:44:30 Ohhhhh 16:44:34 I'm with ya now 16:45:01 So I think we should sort this after Icehouse gets closed up 16:45:03 guitarzan: but it's still a part of cinder - we need CI for all drivers IMO to guarantee as much as possible that cinder works - all of it - including drivers 16:45:15 avishay: I tend to agree with you 16:45:17 avishay: I think that's a pipe dream, but it'd be nice 16:45:39 guitarzan: it may be, but honestly if you can't do it then you're out of tree IMHO 16:45:43 guitarzan: i agree, but who knows 16:45:44 I dunno, I think there is a benefit to the community when we review driver code. 16:45:49 avishay, I agree. Just need to get the company planning ahead appropriately and not panicking 16:45:49 but again, I don't think we need or should debate it today 16:45:50 nova is going that way, but they only have a small handful of drivers 16:45:56 jungleboyj: yup 16:45:59 hemna: i agree 16:46:05 In general, we have found with people running the cert tests that it did reveal bugs. If anything, I'm really proud of some maintainers for making things more stable on their end. 16:46:15 and it helps stabilize cinder in general. 16:46:16 hemna: that's a different topic again :) 16:46:23 thingee, +2 16:46:31 hemna: but I would argue that your conclusion is false 16:46:34 I'm not afraid of driver 'churn' or people working on drivers. 16:46:53 Ok... we've got multiple topics being discussed at once 16:46:59 and we're rat-holing a bit 16:47:02 wheeeee 16:47:05 13 mins 16:47:08 no pressure 16:47:09 OK, let's leave it for a design summit topic 16:47:12 heh ok 16:47:13 avishay: +1 16:47:16 avishay, +2 16:47:20 * eharney would also like more clarification later about the churn issue 16:47:26 eharney, +1 16:47:27 anybody from prophetstor yet? 16:47:30 We still have profitstor on the agenda 16:47:34 * jungleboyj is very likely to be there. 16:47:41 avishay: heh profit 16:47:49 haha... oops 16:47:51 he he 16:47:53 thingee: that's what i would call it 16:48:14 I guess no profits today. 16:48:16 #topic prophetstor driver 16:48:16 profit$tor 16:48:18 Thanks all for that discussion by the way! 16:48:21 Ok... 16:48:25 So here's the background 16:48:33 they submitted a bp way way back 16:48:36 but no activity 16:48:49 they did provide updates to Thierry that they were working it 16:49:02 but didn't get anything posted or communicate with me until right before FFE 16:49:12 when was the bp targeted I1, I2, I3 ? 16:49:14 I initially told them I'm fine with the base volume-driver 16:49:20 hemna: all fo the above 16:49:24 lol 16:49:24 hemna: landed at I3 16:49:29 hah 16:49:31 BUT 16:49:39 The problem I have is they've been unresponsive 16:49:55 does it pass the driver cert test? 16:50:01 I sent them an email last week-end asking them to attend this meeting to discuss why they should get an exception for Icehouse 16:50:06 jgriffith, well that says everything right there then doesn't it? 16:50:14 and it's obviously not that important if no rep is present in this meeting today 16:50:26 -2 -> Juno 16:50:32 I think kmartin has the better point 16:50:37 this shouldn't be about ego imo 16:50:47 i see cert test results in the commit message 16:50:54 but they fail :( 16:51:02 oopsie 16:51:04 rats, but then I can't get them to all pass on lvm ;) 16:51:13 all the other drivers went though the test, they should as well. 16:51:21 ok 16:51:24 kmartin, +1 16:51:26 Sounds like it should move to Juno. 16:51:28 agreed 16:51:33 I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page 16:51:41 Juno it is 16:51:47 That's all I have 16:51:53 I think I supported thingee s comment on that in the review. :-) 16:51:53 #topic open-discussion 16:52:08 agreed, juno or get the cert test to pass within the next day or so 16:52:12 jgriffith: I think you've been generous enough to bring it up. I think it's fine to punt. 16:52:23 thingee: +1 16:52:25 cool... I just want to make sure I'm being fair 16:52:26 thingee, +1 16:52:33 and that I consult the whole team 16:52:44 * thingee is that guy 16:52:45 :-) Is it a democracy? 16:52:53 jungleboyj: no, it's an echo chamber :) 16:53:00 :-) 16:53:10 chamber, chamber, chamber.... 16:53:12 * jungleboyj now knows to pay off thingee instead of jgriffith 16:53:34 guitarzan, Better than a gas chamber. 16:54:04 Ok... seems like we're good 16:54:13 Hollar if you have questions 16:54:14 jgriffith, +1 Good meeting! 16:54:19 jungleboyj: thanks 16:54:24 thanks everyone! 16:54:30 #endmeeting