16:02:45 <jgriffith> #startmeeting cinder
16:02:46 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Sep 24 16:02:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:02:48 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:02:50 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'cinder'
16:02:52 <jgriffith> hey hey
16:02:52 <bswartz> hi
16:02:55 * DuncanT waves
16:02:55 <eharney> hi
16:02:58 <xyang1> hi
16:02:58 <scottda> hi
16:02:59 <rushiagr> hey
16:03:00 <hemna> mornin
16:03:01 <thingee> o/
16:03:04 <jungleboyj> o/
16:03:09 <asselin> hi
16:03:12 <smcginnis> o/
16:03:19 <jnrao> Hi
16:03:23 <jgriffith> Not a ton on agenda so let's make this short and sweet :)
16:03:30 <jgriffith> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings
16:03:41 <jungleboyj> THat would be good.  I gotta run early anyway.  :-)
16:03:43 <jgriffith> #topic Remove XenAPI driver
16:04:00 <jgriffith> note this patch that flew through https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123162/
16:04:05 <hemna> so the XenAPI driver is actually gone :P
16:04:17 <flip214> I thought that meetings, like everything else, tend to fill all available time?
16:04:25 <jgriffith> DuncanT: pointed out that this probably should've been "looked" at by a broader audience
16:04:27 <hemna> the MSA driver isn't going to be maintained by my team.
16:04:38 <jgriffith> hemna: you're next... just a sec ;)
16:04:41 <jungleboyj> flip214: Shhhh.
16:04:48 <thingee> jgriffith: I sent  an email to the openstack list asking who is using the driver
16:04:50 <joa> hehe
16:04:56 <thingee> and noting the driver is broken as far as we're concerned.
16:05:02 <jgriffith> I checked with John Garbutt yesterday and he said it's basicly dead/unmaintained anyway
16:05:06 <jgriffith> so no harm in removal
16:05:08 <thingee> someone from citrix reached out to me privately saying they were fine with getting rid of it
16:05:16 <thingee> since the CI was going to be a bit more work
16:05:25 <jgriffith> thingee: sure
16:05:34 <DuncanT> The reason I put it on the agenda is to get a policy going forward
16:05:35 <jgriffith> anyway, nobody seems to have an issue
16:05:42 <DuncanT> Not every user is on the mailing list
16:05:44 <jgriffith> including the person that was "psuedo" maintaining it
16:05:58 <thingee> DuncanT: I think we're fixing this already with new drivers and existing
16:06:05 <thingee> with the list you're compiling for maintainers.
16:06:09 <jgriffith> thingee: et'al
16:06:12 <thingee> there is only so much we can do to reach out
16:06:19 <jgriffith> I think the point is we should be public and clear about things like this
16:06:30 <jgriffith> there should be communication before "removing" a driver
16:06:32 <jgriffith> IMO
16:06:42 <jgriffith> regardless of whether it's the right thing to do or not
16:06:46 <DuncanT> thingee: We can also set a minimum length of time to try to find drivers a new home if necessary
16:06:48 <hemna> jgriffith, +!
16:06:48 <jgriffith> should be communicated
16:06:50 <xyang1> jgriffith: ok, I won't +A next time.  wait for more people to look at it
16:06:51 <hemna> err 1
16:07:00 <bswartz> Setting a minimum time between announcing the intent to remove the driver and actually removing it would probably be good
16:07:06 <jgriffith> xyang1: nahh... you did right
16:07:13 <thingee> jgriffith: I was taking a similar approach to what Oslo does for removing things like zero mq support. Bring it up in the openstack user list
16:07:14 <eharney> yeah 1 day is not much of a window
16:07:15 <jgriffith> xyang1: that's why we're talking about it today
16:07:19 <jgriffith> set up some guidelines
16:07:26 <jgriffith> so there's no question in the future
16:07:30 <hemna> we should at least doc somewhere about mx requirements for drivers
16:07:36 <jgriffith> hemna: mx?
16:07:46 <joa> hemna: minimal requirements  ? It's in the wiki
16:07:47 <hemna> sorry, aviation term for maintenance
16:07:47 <thingee> I'm open to suggestions, but I feel like it was public, but agree it was done too quickly
16:07:52 <joa> oh
16:08:11 <jgriffith> so I'd just propose a couple things:
16:08:27 <jgriffith> 1. If we see a patch that removes a driver, make sure all of core knows about it
16:08:27 <jungleboyj> thingee: +1
16:08:39 <thingee> DuncanT: I agree with minimum time
16:08:41 <jgriffith> 2. Send a posting out to Dev ML at a minimum
16:09:05 <jgriffith> sorry.. but I think min time is a lame and arbitrary metric
16:09:11 <jgriffith> and frankly usually kinda stupid
16:09:12 <DuncanT> thingee: Part  of this si my fault, I suggete4d to Bob that he put the patch in, then didn't follow through starting the discussion quickly enough
16:09:19 <thingee> jgriffith: I guess minimum time with what you're suggesting
16:09:23 <jgriffith> if 100 people happen to all look at it in an hour who cares :)
16:09:27 <bswartz> minimum time would account for people being on vacation or otherwise temporarily unresponsive
16:09:33 <thingee> there has to be some point where you just kill it because no one is responding to the thread
16:09:39 <DuncanT> jgriffith: 'At least one weekly meeting passes between submit and merge' seems reasonable
16:09:45 <jgriffith> bswartz: OpenStack progress waits for no one! :)
16:09:55 <jgriffith> DuncanT: sure
16:09:57 <jgriffith> fine by me
16:10:03 <smcginnis> DuncanT: +1
16:10:05 <jgriffith> if that's what folks would like to propose
16:10:09 <jgriffith> I"m fine with it
16:10:10 <DuncanT> I'm not suggesting a /long/ minimum time
16:10:10 <jungleboyj> DuncanT: +1
16:10:20 <thingee> sounds fine to me
16:10:28 <hemna> sounds good.
16:10:33 <jgriffith> Ok... so we have a plan it seems
16:10:43 <Arkady_Kanevsky> one week sound reasonble. Suggest also sending an email to openstack-cinder
16:10:45 <jgriffith> Should we capture that on the wiki or something?
16:11:00 <jgriffith> Arkady_Kanevsky: yeah, I think ML is a good thing too
16:11:20 <jgriffith> crickets
16:11:31 <jgriffith> ok... I'll put something on the wiki :)
16:11:31 <DuncanT> Putting on the wiki seems sensible, yes
16:11:38 <rushiagr> +1 for wiki
16:11:38 <jgriffith> unless there's a better option
16:11:39 <joa> jgriffith: I think it'd be a great addition to the contribution page for cinder
16:11:53 <joa> if only to say: See how we'll do if you're to be removed.
16:11:56 <rushiagr> plus a mail to ML about the decision?
16:12:04 <Arkady_Kanevsky> We also need to update  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderSupportMatrix
16:12:13 <jgriffith> ok, I'll draft a first pass on the wiki
16:12:25 <Arkady_Kanevsky> +1 for wiki for proposla
16:12:28 <jgriffith> feel free to clean up or suggest improvements if you feel needed
16:12:37 <jgriffith> That brings us to the MSA driver
16:12:41 <jgriffith> hemna: ^^
16:12:41 <thingee> Arkady_Kanevsky: that matrix is outdated and used as an example of what we're avoiding.
16:13:00 <thingee> the point of the minimum requirements is to not have a matrix
16:13:01 <jgriffith> thingee: yeah, I'd love to just delete that stupid thing
16:13:04 <hemna> so we talked about it internally and tried to ask for resources to maintain the MSA driver and got denied
16:13:04 <Arkady_Kanevsky> If matrix is outdated where is definitive place for it?
16:13:08 <hemna> soren, we can't support it currently
16:13:14 <hemna> so
16:13:23 <jgriffith> hemna: ok, so it's out IMO
16:13:28 <hemna> jgriffith, +1
16:13:35 <hemna> yah I warned my mgrs that would be next.
16:13:38 <jgriffith> hemna: did it ever even work that you know?
16:13:41 <hemna> and we are ok with it.
16:13:46 <hemna> yah I believe it did work
16:14:00 <jgriffith> that's too bad
16:14:04 <hemna> yah
16:14:17 <hemna> basically a contracting company wrote the driver to try and get a deal with a customer
16:14:23 <hemna> it fell through, and so they ran away
16:14:30 <jgriffith> yeah I spent a good deal of time talkign with them :)
16:14:32 <hemna> IMO it's the perfect example of dump and run.
16:14:35 <jgriffith> talking even
16:14:48 <jgriffith> yup.... but that raise a concern/issue
16:14:52 <DuncanT> hemna: I've contact with that company who are now interested in supporting it
16:14:58 <jgriffith> there *is* at least one customer out there using it
16:15:14 <jgriffith> I'd propose that it stay as is for Juno obviously
16:15:16 <hemna> afaik, the customer didn't buy it.   but I could be wrong
16:15:25 <jgriffith> but figure out in Kilo if it's just dead and goes away or not
16:15:36 <jgriffith> hemna: ohhh
16:15:36 <hemna> ok
16:15:43 <jgriffith> hemna: well that makes it easier
16:15:57 <jgriffith> anybody feel a strong need to have it out by the time Juno releases?
16:15:59 <hemna> we have no contact with them at all
16:16:10 <hemna> DuncanT, you have a contact that wants to support it ?
16:16:17 <DuncanT> hemna: Apparently, yes
16:16:30 <DuncanT> hemna: Should be having a call with them about it soon.
16:16:36 <hemna> ok
16:16:51 <thingee> jgriffith: we should also definitely mention the removal of the driver in the release notes
16:16:51 <hemna> so they'll get the CI system up and running for it then.  great :P
16:17:55 <DuncanT> hemna: That's what I'm telling them, yes
16:17:57 <jgriffith> thingee: +1
16:18:02 <hemna> DuncanT, perfect.
16:18:10 <jgriffith> thingee: thanks for reminding me, haven't even thought about release notes yet
16:18:13 <jgriffith> :(
16:19:09 <thingee> I don't think the page has even been created in the wiki yet?
16:19:35 <jgriffith> thingee: nahh, not yet
16:19:59 <thingee> should we move on to HP MSA driver?
16:20:15 <hemna> I think we are pretty much done with that no?
16:20:16 <eharney> i'm a little confused about why removing the xenapi driver is straightforward in the RC phase...
16:20:40 <jgriffith> eharney: it's not
16:20:45 <jgriffith> eharney: you're not confused
16:20:52 <thingee> eharney: it's was a mistake. but we had no real process in place so it happened.
16:20:53 <jgriffith> eharney: the point was that it was just "done"
16:21:05 <eharney> ah yeah, sorry, catching up from vacation still
16:21:05 <jgriffith> and we were discussing if that was a horrible evil thing or not
16:21:14 <jgriffith> and how to make sure we do it correctly in the future
16:21:20 <jgriffith> VACATION!!!!
16:21:24 <jgriffith> that sounds good
16:21:41 <hemna> what's a vacation ?
16:21:42 <xyang1> jgriffith: it can be reverted if it shouldn't be removed?
16:21:43 <bswartz> actually removing a driver lends credibility to duncan's threats to vendors that are slow on CI
16:21:47 <bswartz> :)
16:21:56 <jgriffith> xyang1: yeah, but I don't think we need to do that
16:21:56 <hemna> bswartz, +1
16:21:59 <jgriffith> I think it's fine
16:22:11 <jungleboyj> bswartz +1  Ironically, it wasn't him though.
16:22:13 <eharney> xyang1: that's kinda what i was wondering, seems like an extreme change after j-3
16:22:17 <hemna> if someone wants it, they can support it and get CI in place and submit a new patch
16:22:34 <jgriffith> ok.. I think that horse is dead, we should stop beating on it
16:22:43 <thingee> jungleboyj: I can vouch DuncanT was gentle in the email
16:22:52 <joa> thingee: he scared my managers, though :D
16:23:01 <jgriffith> #topic RC1
16:23:03 <hemna> joa, perfect :)
16:23:04 <joa> got phoned during my vacatins.
16:23:06 <jungleboyj> thiagop:   :-)  Then he sent Xing to do the dirty work!  ;-)
16:23:13 <jgriffith> So FYI the goal is to release RC1 tomorrow
16:23:17 <jungleboyj> thingee:^^
16:23:22 <hemna> jgriffith, w00t
16:23:26 <jgriffith> :)
16:23:38 <hemna> do we have anything that needs looking at in reviews to make it happen ?
16:23:46 <jgriffith> soo... we have to make sure we start testing the heck out of everything next week
16:23:46 <xyang1> jungleboy: what?
16:23:51 <joa> *awe*
16:24:05 <jgriffith> hemna: https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/juno-rc1
16:24:24 <jgriffith> couple of storwiz bugs that I'm likely to defer
16:24:24 <hemna> thanks
16:24:38 <jgriffith> really don't care to hold release up for them
16:25:03 <jgriffith> if they land between now and tomorrow great, but dont' see that happening
16:25:09 * DuncanT would really like Eric's security patch to land
16:25:29 <jgriffith> DuncanT: that's targetted
16:25:44 <DuncanT> jgriffith: Thanks
16:25:48 <jgriffith> note that anything on the list I just shared is what we "want" in RC1
16:25:59 <jgriffith> the exception are the late additions to storwiz driver
16:26:58 <xyang1> jgriffith: looks like there's only one vmware patch that we are waiting for?
16:27:08 <jgriffith> xyang1: that's actually targetted yes
16:27:14 <jgriffith> xyang1: so keep in mind...
16:27:25 <jgriffith> the RC list is things that are critical for us to cut a release
16:27:34 <jgriffith> and we think should hold up the release
16:27:48 <xyang1> what about those n triaged status?
16:27:48 <jgriffith> there are of course opportunistic patches that can go in
16:28:01 <jgriffith> xyang1: in general you mean?
16:28:06 <jgriffith> xyang1: or on that list?
16:28:14 <hemna> the vmware patch has a dep on another retype patch
16:28:16 <xyang1> on that list, there are two triaged
16:28:25 <jgriffith> xyang1: the ones on that list I plan to remove, except maybe my snapshot one :)
16:28:38 <jgriffith> xyang1: I have some code for that, but I'll remove it from targetting
16:28:45 <jgriffith> xyang1: it becomes opportunistic
16:29:00 <jgriffith> but problematic because once we release we introduce compat issues
16:29:23 <jgriffith> xyang1: does that clear things up?
16:29:34 <xyang1> jgriffith: yes, thanks
16:29:43 <jgriffith> xyang1: sure
16:29:50 <jgriffith> anybody else have any questions about RC?
16:29:55 <jungleboyj> Just to be clear, should we not be approving any other patches at this point in time?
16:30:01 <xyang1> hemna: ya, the dependency is confusing
16:30:24 <hemna> xyang1, at this point the vmware patch should get pushed out IMO
16:30:59 <jungleboyj> Doesn't look like those storwize patches have a chance of going in.
16:31:44 <jgriffith> jungleboyj: that's an understatement
16:32:01 <jgriffith> jungleboyj: no, that's not really necessary IMO
16:32:09 <jgriffith> jungleboyj: re not approving other patches
16:32:16 <jgriffith> just be picky
16:32:24 <jgriffith> and no more frikin i8n disasters :)
16:32:33 <jungleboyj> jgriffith:  :-)  Ok, just making sure.  Ok, be careful, nothing that is likely to cause issues.
16:32:33 <jgriffith> no updates to libs/requirements at this point
16:32:34 <DuncanT> If in doubt, +2 then ask in the channel
16:32:46 <DuncanT> We've a request to merge translations BTW
16:32:49 <jungleboyj> jgriffith:  :-p
16:32:52 <jgriffith> DuncanT: ha!
16:33:02 <jgriffith> translations are "ok" IMO
16:33:20 <jgriffith> it's the trouble that we caused late with some of the common libs
16:33:23 <jungleboyj> DuncanT: I will take a look at those.
16:33:46 <jgriffith> #topic open-discussion
16:33:48 * jungleboyj was just going to do a full oslo sync.
16:33:49 <jgriffith> Oh...
16:33:51 <jgriffith> hey!
16:34:00 <jgriffith> I wanted to thank everybody here!!!
16:34:15 <jgriffith> Especially for the nice things that people said via email regarding me stepping down as PTL
16:34:20 <joa> you're welcome :)
16:34:34 <jgriffith> It's been an awesome few years and we've built a great team and project IMO
16:34:41 <jgriffith> but keep in mind I'm not going anywhere :)
16:34:47 <hemna> good :)
16:34:58 <tbarron> +1
16:35:02 <xyang1> jgriffith: great:)
16:35:06 <jungleboyj> Good.  Wouldn't be the same without you.
16:35:17 <thingee> jgriffith: I very much view the PTL role as a tag team sort of thing. Any of us interested should step up and help out. I would hope you would return to the role after a much needed vacation. :)
16:35:28 * DuncanT looks forward to jgriffith doing less paperwork and more code
16:35:35 <joa> jgriffith: anyways, I think that most of us are really thankful to you for your help, oldies like newbies
16:35:49 <hemna> DuncanT, +2
16:35:50 <jgriffith> ^^ me too, but remember you'll have to review it :)
16:35:59 <jungleboyj> DuncanT:  thingee +2
16:36:15 * jungleboyj gets my Red Pen out.  ;-)
16:36:24 <xyang1> jgriffith: can you target your patch please so we won't forget about them?:)
16:36:30 <jgriffith> cool... so we've got thingee and DuncanT with their hats in the ring
16:36:33 <jgriffith> can't go wrong
16:36:48 <jgriffith> anybody else if you're interested get your proposal posted
16:37:03 <jgriffith> xyang1: which one?
16:37:11 <jgriffith> xyang1: the one I just removed from targetting?
16:37:20 <xyang1> jgriffith: I mean in the future.
16:37:24 <jgriffith> ohhh!
16:37:24 <jgriffith> LOL
16:37:30 <jgriffith> :)
16:37:38 <xyang1> jgriffith: that patch didn't get reviews and got reverted
16:37:49 <jgriffith> xyang1: I know.. still makes me sad :(
16:38:14 <DuncanT> jgriffith: We'll fix it all in Kilo
16:38:16 <jgriffith> xyang1: but timing sucked with CG and Rep landing the same week
16:38:34 <jungleboyj> jgriffith: Now you will have time to work on that and harass us to review it.
16:38:34 <jgriffith> DuncanT: haha... that's what' I said at the end of Icehouse ;)
16:38:39 <xyang1> jgriffith: so that is my fault your patch didn't make it?:)
16:38:47 <jgriffith> xyang1: haha!  not at all
16:39:08 <jungleboyj> xyang1: You can blame Ronen, he isn't here.
16:39:12 <DuncanT> jgriffith: Then I distracted everybody by poking them about CI
16:39:17 <jgriffith> Ok, should we free up the meeting channel?  Or does anybody else have any biz to discuss?
16:39:22 <xyang1> jgriffith: target it to K-1 so we look it early
16:39:33 <jgriffith> xyang1: for sure
16:40:19 <jgriffith> Ok everyone... cya in openstack-cinder
16:40:30 <jgriffith> #endmeeting