16:00:01 #startmeeting Cinder 16:00:02 Meeting started Wed Apr 29 16:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:00:05 The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' 16:00:09 hi everyone! 16:00:10 hi! 16:00:11 hi 16:00:12 hi 16:00:12 howdy 16:00:12 hi! 16:00:15 Hi! 16:00:17 o/ 16:00:21 hi 16:00:25 o/ 16:00:27 hi 16:00:29 hi 16:00:30 announcements! 16:00:31 hi 16:00:31 hi 16:00:38 o/ 16:00:38 hey 16:00:42 Hump Daaay! 16:00:44 liberty midcycle meetup date choices are here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-midcycle-meetup 16:00:51 o/ 16:00:52 hi 16:00:57 o/ 16:01:02 o\ 16:01:08 err.. o/ 16:01:16 aug 3-5 or aug 10-12 16:01:30 also an idea, extending the meet up for actual hack time 16:01:46 or perhaps using the last day for hack time 16:01:53 while everyone is in the same room 16:02:05 would like feedback from people 16:02:20 Hack time would be awesome! 16:02:32 +1 16:02:59 Not a bad idea. 16:03:06 I think hack time is definitely worth trying 16:03:18 so please provide feedback, and people that are welling to host us, please indicate which date(s) work. if no one can work with these dates, we'll revisit 16:03:24 just throwing something out there though to start 16:03:26 thanks! 16:03:36 hack time +1 16:03:50 join late, hack time when? 16:03:52 +1 on fort collins 16:03:58 +1 for hack time 16:03:59 mid cycle meetup? 16:04:02 winston-d: at the midcycle meetup 16:04:06 ok 16:04:15 Also reminder spec reviews are happening https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/cinder-specs,n,z 16:04:35 would appreciate people helping me with reviews as some of you have been doing already 16:05:24 For blueprints that don't require spec, I was wondering, can someone tell me if you're able to mark a blueprint as pending approval? 16:06:04 was thinking of announcing to people that they should flag a blueprint as so to get my attention, so I have a queue to look through 16:06:08 instead of individual pings 16:06:14 thingee: you mean marking our own, right? 16:06:19 tbarron: yes 16:06:31 where a bp within our own driver doesn't need a coresponding spec 16:06:39 tbarron: yes 16:06:41 hello everyone gm 16:06:43 thingee: I will try it and let you know later today, 16:06:50 i just changed one to pending approval, looks like it worked https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/pure-fc-driver 16:06:56 patrickeast: thanks 16:07:15 ok, so does that sound ok to everyone? Just mark things as pending approval and I'll watch those? 16:07:20 +1 16:07:24 and if I'm being slow, of course let me know 16:07:25 +1, 16:07:29 great 16:07:29 sounds good 16:07:29 +1 16:07:34 +1 16:07:40 I'll send an email to let folks know on the list 16:07:44 thingee: do we have to change the approver to your name too? 16:07:50 lets get started! 16:07:54 xyang2: nah I can do all that 16:08:03 thingee: ok, thanks 16:08:09 agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting 16:08:22 expect a lot of time to be taken on the summit review stuff 16:08:39 #topic Cinder Quota delete API behavior 16:08:41 geguileo: hi 16:08:45 Hi 16:08:54 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061000.html 16:09:03 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/APIChangeGuidelines 16:09:15 Ok, so currently quota delete API deletes limits 16:09:37 But also deletes usage and reservations 16:10:00 Acording to API doc it shouldn't: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-blockstorage-v2.html#ext-os-quota-sets-cinder 16:10:13 It reads: Deletes quotas for a tenant so the quotas revert to default values. 16:10:55 According API guidelines this API endpoint can be changed without needing a new endpoint 16:11:12 But people don't feel confortable with that 16:11:51 I don't mind either way, but there must be a way for operators to only delete limits (which is usually their intention) 16:12:04 Deleting usages and reservations looks like a straight bug to me? That can never be the right thing to do, right? 16:12:23 DuncanT: That's what I think 16:12:24 DuncanT: Someone who wrote the docs was also confused about this too 16:12:27 In what cases, people want to delete quota for a tenant? 16:12:53 winston-d: You delete the quota limits for a tenant and set it back to the defaults 16:13:25 geguileo: so what's the asnwer to "This is a matter of how the "Quota delete" is understood, as "Delete quotas and leave no quota limits, not even defaults" or just "Delete additional quota limits that override defaults". 16:14:06 winston-d: The answer is that you delete the limits and revert to default as the documentation says 16:14:29 winston-d: It's not about setting it to no restrictions 16:14:29 geguileo: so it's reset-quota-to-default 16:14:41 winston-d: That's what the API docs says 16:14:55 winston-d: "Deletes quotas for a tenant so the quotas revert to default values." 16:15:04 OK. thx 16:15:28 I agree usage and reservations shouldn't be affected by doing that. 16:15:42 anyone opposed? 16:16:10 geguileo: sounds like no one disagrees 16:16:11 Just make sure it is clearly release noted, I guess 16:16:16 i agree with DucanT, winston-d 16:16:24 DuncanT: +1 upgradeimpact please so we remember to add this 16:16:42 dulek: +1 16:16:49 DuncanT: +1 16:16:57 #agreed usage and reservations should not be affected 16:17:04 geguileo: thanks 16:17:04 Ok, I will modify the commit message of current patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162722/ 16:17:06 Sorry dulek ... unpredictable tab completion. 16:17:08 Thanks guys 16:17:31 #topic Liberty Summit Sessions 16:17:32 jungleboyj: I was surprised. ;) 16:17:33 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-proposed-sessions 16:17:40 alright here we go 16:18:15 :-) 16:18:19 lets start with working sessions 16:18:29 because I have a feeling we'll be moving some out to fish bowl maybe 16:19:03 Very small discussion if we think these topics will be worth technical discussion 16:19:09 remember working sessions is a smaller room 16:19:21 not meant for user interaction 16:19:30 these are things we already agree have a clear use case. 16:19:43 if we're unsure of use case, might be best to propose to fish bowl to get feedback 16:19:55 ok first up, Task resumptions 16:19:59 dulek: hi 16:20:09 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147879/ 16:20:26 Hi guys! 16:20:32 #topic Task Resumptions 16:20:51 I've updated the spec with what I think would work. 16:21:07 so at this point, this is something I think we all want in Cinder. the question is how the approach will be 16:21:16 +1 16:21:22 So basically I want to discuss if this is sane at gather feedback 16:21:28 Maybe redesign some things. 16:21:28 does this currently have a tie with decisions in another topic dulek ? 16:21:29 +1 16:21:31 like taskflow? 16:21:40 would like to make sure I schedule things in the right order 16:21:50 we could start with PoC based on taskflow before summit 16:21:58 Yeah, I'm assuming TaskFlow would stay. 16:22:23 ok where's the discussion on taskflow? 16:22:24 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-taskflow 16:22:40 can someone move that to the topic of working sessions 16:22:55 dulek: can you make yours as dependent on that discussion? just so I schedule things in the right order 16:23:08 thingee: do you want a separate session? 16:23:11 thingee: Okay, I'll do that. 16:23:14 thingee : i have one https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/resiliency-with-without-statemanagement 16:23:16 e0ne: I thought there was going to be one 16:23:46 Any others that are dependent on taskflow should state so...just so I schedule things in the right order 16:23:48 myself and duncanT will be covering it under "Active / Active cinder-volume: Towards better resiliency, the way forward " 16:23:51 thingee: agree, that's why i didn't add topic about TF 16:24:24 thingee : have updated the liberty session link with it already 16:24:36 I think it's a mistake to just move ahead working on designs that assume taskflow w/o having the meta conversation first. 16:24:45 tbarron: ++ 16:24:51 +2 16:24:56 DuncanT, vilobhmm1 I think there is some work anthony lee is doing towards this effort 16:25:03 of removing locks 16:25:15 can we make sure his work is part of this? 16:25:23 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149894/ 16:25:25 thingee : but first we need to clearly outline all the problem 16:25:25 those locks 16:25:26 :P 16:25:32 thingee: There are several people working on it. Part of the problem is that there are several related problems 16:25:34 sure i am ok with tha 16:25:38 #topic active/active cinder-volume 16:25:46 removing those locks, requires fixes in Nova, and nova tempest tests and gate tests. 16:25:47 FYI 16:25:56 tbarron: +1 16:26:20 There are two sets of locks, the ones in the manager and the ones in individual drivers... both doing different jobs 16:26:23 yes..fixing locking issues in manager, drivers etc…also 16:26:27 true 16:26:42 hemna: why a cinder internal implementation has external dependency on Nova? 16:26:57 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149894/ 16:27:00 that's the spec 16:27:12 winston-d, because the changes in Cinder causes different API behavior 16:27:13 winston-d: Because Nova is checking the state and assumes that it won't change before making an action. 16:27:17 winston-d: That's wrong. 16:27:38 that Nova doesn't account for. Nova is currently not catching any possible exceptions that might come back from calling Cinder. 16:27:41 nova blows up. 16:27:45 bad mmmmkay 16:27:53 :-) 16:28:15 dulek : i guess we have covered most of the things here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-active-active-vol-service-issues 16:28:32 ok seems fine to keep IMO 16:28:38 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-active-active-vol-service-issues 16:28:48 keep in mind we have eight slots here. ... 17 are on this list if I counted right 16:29:11 so lets be picky and merge things when necessary :) 16:29:15 thingee: Shall we move some to be discussed at friday in smaller subteams? 16:29:27 dulek: yeah, but I think this is fine 16:29:42 #topic API and contracts between nova and cinder 16:30:05 DuncanT scottda hemna hi 16:30:11 hey 16:30:20 Hey 16:30:23 hey 16:30:25 We discussed this earlies 16:30:29 earlier 16:30:29 so no details on this yet, but I agree we have a falling out a bit 16:30:34 So we started taking a look at the contract between Nova and Cinder interactions. 16:30:45 There are two strands: simple fixes to what is there 16:30:49 and DuncanT and I are going to try and throw together a WIP spec to look at this 16:30:55 And a re-do to do it properly 16:31:02 as a parallel effort to what exists today. 16:31:06 There should be a spec before the summit 16:31:28 And we are told that Nova is very interested in this as well. 16:31:38 i.e. supportive 16:31:48 big +1 16:31:56 so I would say move this to sprints. If you are actually going to get nova folks to show up, might be worth while. 16:32:22 vol attach/detach failure has been our no.1 issues of Cinder, which unfortunately all happened in Nova 16:32:35 winston-d +1 16:32:54 winston-d: +1 16:33:03 there are a lot of 'bad' things that nova is doing with cinder currently, and will try and encapsulate those fixes along with attach/detach APIs in the spec. 16:33:09 winston-d: +1 16:33:10 +1 16:33:16 live migration being another PITA 16:33:23 hemna: +1 16:33:46 ameade: you have the right to say that :-) 16:33:49 DuncanT, scottda, hemna can we do some communication to let nova folks know about this session? 16:33:51 hemna: we've got one more session proposal with live migration 16:33:52 hemna: we have a related patch in nova and would like your feedback. I'll send you a link of it. 16:34:00 winston-d: +1 16:34:00 are there going to be conflicts to have interested parties attending? 16:34:04 xyang2, ok thanks 16:34:26 thingee, my thoughts were, lets figure out what our API should be, and then pull in the Nova folks 16:34:35 so we don't get bogged down in theoreticals 16:34:59 but also just touch base with them and let them know this is an issue we see value in addressing. 16:35:08 seems like we can keep this in the sprints then if we're just talking amongst ourselves then? 16:35:17 sure 16:35:24 thingee: +1 16:35:27 someone mind moving that to sprints? 16:35:49 will do 16:35:59 #topic cinder agent /ironic integration 16:36:18 :) 16:36:35 so we don't have a cinder agent yet. not sure it's worth having at the working sessions yet. 16:36:44 but the ironic interaction 16:36:54 ironic team is interesting in it too 16:36:58 sorrison, e0ne and I were looking at this one 16:37:01 gah 16:37:02 so 16:37:13 it's basically a REST API in front of os-brick 16:37:22 and made into a standalone service. 16:37:58 i hope, we could get some working agent poc before summit 16:38:11 to manage fetching the initiator information, as well as volume discovery and detachment. 16:38:38 e0ne, if we ignore the authentication stuff for now, we could get a POC REST api working pretty quickly in front of os-brick 16:39:00 hemna: i want to finish auth staff this weekend:) 16:39:09 basically 3 APIs, get_connector, discover_volume, detach_volume 16:39:21 e0ne, we should talk about that offline. 16:39:26 hemna: agree 16:39:27 hemna: what do we plan to be discussed if this was a working session? 16:40:00 the auth piece is a bit of a mystery to me and has security related issues 16:40:01 thingee: we need to notify ironic team when we'll get it 16:40:12 thingee, we can chat offline if you like. 16:40:49 ok, just trying to decide if this is beneficial at this point to have ironic folks attend or if this something we can do in the sprints. 16:40:59 hemna: make sure new REST API service get the active-active HA piece right. ;) 16:41:05 winston-d, :P 16:41:14 right now it seems like it would be great to hack on this in the sprints? instead of rushing for POC at the summit? 16:41:15 winston-d: ok:) 16:41:21 thingee, it might be worth pulling in the ironic folks 16:41:33 they might also be at the sprints. 16:41:35 thingee, in the past, I know that deva was against having agents running on the BM 16:41:42 not sure if that's changed though. 16:41:57 devananda: you plan to be part of this if no conflicts? 16:42:03 but the only way to do volume attaches/detaches is with an agent. 16:42:08 if it's a working sessions at the summit? 16:42:27 ok running out of time on this one, so maybe... 16:42:33 ok 16:42:42 #topic online backup using snapshot 16:42:45 DuncanT, xyang2 hi 16:42:56 hi, so we discussed about this at the meetup 16:43:12 I just want to have more detailed discussion on the API design 16:43:16 and nail it down 16:43:50 xyang2: +1 for sprints shouldn't be too controversial? 16:44:13 that is fine. I just want to discuss about it 16:44:19 and make sure we are in sync 16:44:38 Needs input from vendor experts, ideally, though we can do a safe fallback and just create a hidden volume from snap if necessary 16:44:38 by the way, what are doing at sprint that is not in a working session? 16:44:42 I think for sprints we'll have discussions at the first half, and the second half of the day will be actually working. 16:45:35 DuncanT: I thought we want to avoid creating a volume? Seems slower 16:45:35 xyang2: working sessions is technical discussion on implementation details, but involves other parties 16:45:44 not sure just us talking to each other 16:46:06 so vendors will still be encouraged to show up 16:46:18 xyang2: Where it is possible to do data transfer from the snap, we optimise, but that is a new requirement 16:46:36 #agreed move to sprints 16:46:41 xyang2: We need a fallback path 16:46:45 DuncanT: ok 16:46:54 #topic automatically sync up service catalog 16:46:56 xyang2: hi 16:46:58 DuncanT: yes, driver needs to implement attach snapshot 16:47:23 thingee: this is somewhat related to your topic on capabilities. 16:47:33 I have no idea what this is referring to 16:47:39 DuncanT: +1 16:47:47 thingee: so we are doing a POC trying to automatically read data from array and build service catalog 16:48:00 service catalog to me is keystone 16:48:09 am I right what you're talking about here? 16:48:11 service catalog here refers to volume types and extra specs 16:48:14 xyang2: do you have a spec for it? 16:48:19 xyang2, what do you mean by service catalog ? 16:48:22 not yet 16:48:23 that's completely unclear to me. 16:48:34 I can definitely add more info to it. 16:48:35 xyang2: need more information. 16:48:40 Can we rename it, right now, please? Reusing the name 'service catalogue' is just inviting confusion 16:48:40 ok coolio 16:48:53 service catalog means volume types and extra specs. Sure I can rename 16:48:55 I was thinking cinder-manage service list 16:48:55 heh 16:48:56 xyang2: but if we can merge it into the capabilities stuff, I'm fine with that...just have no idea what this is 16:49:02 xyang2: I think we call that service catalog too :-) 16:49:13 tbarron: that is what I think:) 16:49:14 no service catalog please :( 16:49:16 all the more reason to rename 16:49:18 thingee, +1 16:49:26 thingee: ok, I can rename it. 16:49:29 #agreed may merge into capabilities fish bowl talk 16:49:43 #topic abc meta driver 16:49:46 thingee: let me create an etherpad for it 16:49:47 mkoderer: hi 16:49:57 I think this will be fine for sprints 16:50:07 sprints should have active maintainers 16:50:23 tbarron: I think I saw "service catalog" on netapp patches. so thought this is commonly accepted terms:) 16:50:40 thingee: +1 for sprint 16:50:54 #agreed ABC meta driver to be in sprints 16:50:57 xyang2: :) 16:51:06 #topic the state of live instance migration with attached volumes 16:51:26 so I thought this would be great for fishbowl. I understand we'll be technical, but I think there is a bit of misconception on this to users? 16:51:35 people say it works, doesn't work, use this patch 16:51:42 yeah exactly 16:51:42 yah it's a mess 16:51:47 should be a full room 16:51:52 ameade: +1 16:51:55 +1 16:51:57 agree 16:51:59 +1 16:52:00 ameade: I would also like jgriffith to help with this... 16:52:00 and there are some really bad assumptions that the nova code is making wrt connector information coming back from cinder drivers. 16:52:01 thingee, +1 16:52:02 thingee: +1 16:52:11 #agreed move to fishbowl 16:52:15 sounds good 16:52:21 hemna: do you have a bug number for the problem you see? we tested a few days ago and it worked 16:52:27 * thingee hopes people are updating the etherpad as he quickly makes decisions 16:52:31 xyang2, yah I have a few 16:52:35 #topic shadow tables implementation 16:52:41 thingee: We're trying to catch up. ;) 16:52:45 e0ne: hi 16:52:53 we can move it to Friday:) 16:52:54 initially going to say sprints for this 16:52:57 ha 16:53:01 #agreed move to sprints 16:53:10 #topic REST API: volume detailed view 16:53:14 sprints? 16:53:54 may be. need to discuss how can/should we change our REST API 16:54:25 e0ne: i thought we don't change API, just the implementation of it, no? 16:54:29 We're putting a lot of things in sprints now... that is going to cause some reduction in focus... how many sprint sessions do we think we have? 16:54:55 winston-d: i mean extend api to return more fields 16:55:05 couldnt the client just make multiple requests? 16:55:10 DuncanT: it'll be fine. there should be initial discussion, but people are going to break up into their stuff in the second half of the day 16:55:17 Returning more fields we can just do.... 16:55:32 DuncanT: +1 16:55:35 DuncanT: not everybody agrees with it:( 16:55:46 thingee: Some of these are not going to be all that quick to discuss, I think 16:55:48 +1 16:55:49 e0ne: I agree with it. Is that good enough? :) 16:56:01 DuncanT: +1 16:56:05 e0ne: We've done it before, it's documented API policy that we do it 16:56:06 thingee: ok. i'll wait +2 on spec;) 16:56:13 we've always been fine with adding more fields 16:56:15 e0ne: Where is the spec? 16:56:29 just changing/removing fields is a no no 16:56:36 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156292/ 16:56:46 e0ne: like I said sprint should be fine, but sounds like we can resolve this in the spec. 16:56:55 +1 16:56:57 #action thingee to decide after reviewing spec 16:56:57 thingee 16:56:59 yeah i may have some concerns, i need to readup some 16:57:11 thingee: fair enough. thanks! 16:57:31 e0ne: Ah, you are proposing removing stuff from the default... that is harder 16:57:40 #topic nested quota driver 16:57:43 vilobhmm1: hi 16:57:47 hi thingee 16:57:58 thingee: that REST API stuff does need discussion IMO 16:57:58 have uploaded blueprint , spec 16:58:02 DuncanT: maybe my fault. i mean _extend_ current defults 16:58:03 is there a cross project initiative on this? could it be discussed there? 16:58:15 it has detailed use cases mentioned 16:58:29 e0ne: Shall we talk after the meeting? 16:58:37 DuncanT: sure 16:58:45 2 min warning 16:58:47 no cross project initiative that i know of…keystone has done work on heirarchical stuff and that was accepted in kilo 16:59:00 nova started work on same 16:59:11 i think we also need to gear up in same direction 16:59:19 as the community is moving for that support 16:59:24 what do we need to discuss exactly? 16:59:33 the implementation 16:59:44 the effects that it will have, the use-cases 16:59:57 fish bowl maybe? 17:00:01 maybe 17:00:09 out of time 17:00:15 continue on #openstack-cinder 17:00:17 #endmeeting