16:59:59 #startmeeting diversity 16:59:59 Meeting started Thu Oct 1 16:59:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglute. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:00:03 The meeting name has been set to 'diversity' 17:00:19 #topic agenda 17:00:29 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.13 17:00:35 please review and update! 17:00:38 #topic rollcall 17:00:55 raise your hand if you are here for diversity meeting 17:01:00 o/ 17:02:15 hi spotz looks like it is just the two of us so far 17:02:23 lets give a few more minutes 17:02:25 hello 17:02:28 :D 17:02:32 hello GB21! 17:02:39 hey! 17:02:40 o/ 17:02:44 hey eglute 17:02:53 hey spotz and lxsli 17:02:55 usually I'm at home by now but I seem to still be at work :) 17:02:56 :D 17:02:57 I'm here, last meeting ran long 17:03:13 hi barrett1 17:03:23 welcome everyone! please review agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.13 17:03:40 #chair barrett1 17:03:41 Current chairs: barrett1 eglute 17:04:35 #topic survey update 17:04:55 I think the survey is almost finalized and should be going out soon, i am sure everyone has seen emails 17:05:43 i don't really know much besides what has been in the emails. we are hoping to get the results in time for the summit 17:06:12 anyone else can add anything about the survey? 17:06:14 Yes, but I want to make sure everyone is happy with the questions. I think the way we're asking about sexuality and religion is still up in the air 17:06:20 It sounds like we'll get the data back on 10/16, I wonder if we should setup a call to review results? 17:06:42 barrett1 i think that is great idea 17:06:52 I looked for sample answers for the Religion and Culture questions but didn't find anything helpful 17:06:53 #action barrett1 to set up a call to review survey results 17:07:01 lsell I think the hope was to finalize everything on the survey this meeting 17:07:01 will do 17:07:03 And I've gotten feedback about adding a general question along the lines of “During your involvement with OpenStack, how inclusive would you consider the OpenStack community to be?" (on a scale of 0 to 10) that we can correlate with other demographics data 17:07:29 spotz: perfect! i just want to make sure we have the discussion :) 17:07:39 lsell regarding the sexuality and religion i am ok with letting the foundation make the final call 17:08:39 here is the link to survey in question: #link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/?sm=Ju6YvZHHMOt%2bqvcrDczCC7KJ%2fy6YDf4koT9sM2cSqZ2ggvm1U7uH8CErqYzXNfKmlbDNU0gMLsP8ej5qguQyzWmuGzgO%2baI5VynQViJRCdI%3d 17:09:00 Isell: I like the concept and would want to make sure we get actionable input. Maybe: Are there any barriers to your engagement in the community? 17:09:35 I like the "many barriers" "few barriers" style of option rather than 1-10 17:09:57 I am concerned that without some type of answers for people to chose from for 5 & 6 we'll get a random set of data that we can't do anything with 17:10:41 That is the problem with not having choices to select from barrett1. While it gives folks freedom it makes analysis next to impossible 17:11:18 i agree 17:11:20 +1, is it too late to get a list of major religious plus a write in, or other 17:11:32 I'm not so sure, I think natural groupings will form 17:11:36 my preference would be to remove questions 3 and 5 and ask a more general question about whether sexuality or religion has had an impact on their involvement and acceptance in the community 17:11:37 spotz: +1 ; I like the idea of set choices plus and other field with free form text entry 17:11:48 lsell i like that idea as well 17:12:12 +1 lsell 17:12:26 Isell: That's a really good point! If people don't perceive there are barriers, then it's of lower priority. 17:13:12 Any thoughts on the best way to phrase that question and what the response choices should be? 17:13:17 how do we distinguish between "diverse" people that haven't had problems and "non-diverse" people? For statistical purposes 17:13:55 lxsli which question is that? 17:14:38 If we remove Q3+5 and only ask if people have felt an impact, a negative response leaves us without information on how many diverse-but-happy people there are 17:15:20 It'd be easy to lump those people into the majority camp and make the minority camps look smaller than they really are 17:15:25 lxsli we could ask people if they are happy :) 17:15:45 Thoughts: Is there a mimimum percentage / quantity of survey reponses that we need for the survey results to be considered representative of the community? If we don’t get the minimum participation rate needed then how do we plan to proceed? 17:16:10 cmassey what was the response rate for user survey? 17:16:55 eglute: that one is hard to tell because we publicly promote it. we don't just send it to the list of foundation members 17:16:56 I'm also a bit worried about agreeing major changes in this meeting instead of on the mailing list 17:17:27 also, does the foundation know how many active/somewhat active members there? 17:17:33 cmassey: I'm not a stats expert to know what we'd need to make it statistically significant... 17:18:06 lxsli We could try to finalize and then send out to the mailing list with a time to respond by. The issue is if we want the data back before Summit with time to do anything with it we can't wait too long 17:18:21 spotz +1 17:18:38 spotz: +1 17:19:00 eglute: we have a little over 31,000 individual foundaion members - however the valuation of “active” or not depends on how you define that 17:19:08 Pulling up the survey I think 3 could stay, 5 as lsell suggested earlier should have a list attached? 17:19:47 spotz: that seems more reasonable 17:20:05 Not sure if 6 can be quantified 17:20:14 6 is an absolute minefield 17:21:10 cmassey i expect that the participation rate will not be very high, as is usually with elections and other things. I would be happy if we got 20% of community to respond. 10% would be good as well 17:21:25 what would people suggest for #6 17:21:40 free text is the only option imo 17:22:22 https://www.surveymonkey.com/blog/2011/09/15/how-many-people-do-i-need-to-take-my-survey/ 17:22:24 eglute My fair is it changes by country so it'd be hard to assign values that would cover everything 17:22:40 fear even 17:23:35 spotz true, was trying to find something that would list different options, but first search results for me are very US focused 17:23:38 it seems like religious identity is a combination of Ethnic + Religion 17:23:39 Would it be possible to have tablets or laptops set up in the entry for summit for folks to fill it out on the way in or as they have time? 17:23:55 I've been trying to find terms for these from the UN website 17:24:17 for comparison, i just confirmed we got a 3% response rate on the most recent survey to the foundation membership list (it was a job task analysis survey mean to inform the professional certification testing, and it came with incentives) 17:24:24 we could ask, "In the country you currently reside, do you belong to racial/ethnic minority"? 17:24:47 lsell ouch. 17:24:47 eglute Oh I like that 17:24:54 eglute: does that work for Africans? 17:25:16 or maybe “…do you identify as a member of a racial/ethnic minority”? 17:25:20 being locally majority doesn't necessarily help at all in the OpenStack community 17:25:36 KLevenstein i like that as well 17:25:52 +1 17:26:11 you could have paired questions. “in the country where you currently reside…” and “in the openstack community…” 17:26:25 +1 17:26:29 +1 17:26:58 Klevenstein: +1 17:27:08 that might address the context issues we’re sort of circling around 17:27:32 klevenstein do you see any other questions that would benefit from that break down of conoutry/openstack? 17:27:39 looking... 17:27:43 Maybe "Do you identify as a racial/ethnic minority within the OpenStack community?" 17:27:52 I really can typo... 17:28:12 What's the utility of the per-country question? 17:28:12 spotz: that’s the only one that really jumps out at me 17:29:48 Welp I need to go, sorry o/ 17:30:02 thanks lxsli for your help 17:30:10 good luck :) 17:30:14 thanks lxsli, night! 17:30:17 could we get a question in around where they are or want to participate? not sure the right wording 17:30:51 Hello AlanClark! what do you mean about the participation? whether they want to participate? 17:31:42 It's a how question. Do they want to contribute code, ambassador,.... 17:32:14 that would help us to know the diversity in the different areas of the project 17:32:28 oh i see. yes, i think we could add that, could be very useful 17:32:59 I like the combination of the "How" question along with a "Barriers" question - could be very powerful in directing actions 17:33:30 at the bottom of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.13 i started working on the wording 17:33:39 please help! 17:36:42 thanks everyone... i think we can polish that up after the meeting as well. 17:38:22 good list! 17:38:33 lsell cmassey how about #5 and #6 how would you like us to write it up or make changes 17:38:54 one second, trying to summarize updates here 17:39:10 eglute was #6 now klevelstein's suggestion? 17:39:47 i think so. spotz can you put in etherpad so we can work on the wording? 17:39:57 so just to make sure i'm up to speed on your current thinking (since I need to implement the updates): leave question #3, prompt responses for #5 (who is going to recommend that list?), remove #6 and instead apply to country and community, add a "how do you participate in the community question" based on etherpad draft and add a "do you feel included / face barriers" question... 17:39:59 is that right? 17:40:08 yep let me grab it 17:40:16 lsell I believe so 17:40:45 can someone help with #5 list? if not, i will take that 17:41:58 #action eglute work on the list of most common religions send it to Lauren by end of day 17:42:19 eglute I'll try to lend a hand 17:42:26 thank you spotz! 17:42:46 need to track down keep folks for one thing first:) 17:42:54 KLevenstein lsell can you check the bottom of etherpad and see if #6 what you had in mind 17:43:10 eglute: I'll keep looking for info on #5 too and send anything useful I find 17:43:19 thank you barrett1 17:43:52 eglute: looks good to me 17:44:00 thank you lsell 17:44:36 so lsell and cmassey brought up a good question about success rate and mentioned that the response to one of the previous surveys was super low, at 3%. how can we help with promoting this survey? 17:44:51 for the "type" of participation question, i might suggest consolidating the response choices a bit and offering a "select all that apply" 17:45:01 lsell +1 17:45:23 Yeah I think we were just throwing spaghetti to the wall lsell:) 17:45:37 lsell +1 17:45:44 just to be clear, i don't think 3% was a bad response rate for the size of our community, but i just want to set expectations. that survey was also a bit longer 17:45:50 spotz: totally understand :) 17:46:17 lsell thanks.. i guess i was overly optimisting with 10% :) 17:46:28 optimistic 17:47:08 lsell cmassey will the survey be surveymonkey or something else? 17:47:18 surveymonkey 17:47:31 also, will it be individual links to each member? or unique links? 17:47:47 no unique links 17:48:15 so we could potentially tweet it? 17:48:28 yes, but that's a very good point / question 17:49:07 we could get some random people trolling or responding if we promote via social media 17:49:29 that is true. how about mailing lists? 17:49:35 but at the same time, our foundation individual member database may not cover everyone who considers themselves part of the community 17:49:36 the openstack ones? 17:49:40 yes, i think mailing lists would be very appropriate 17:49:51 i think we will see it tweeted regardless 17:50:05 if it goes on a mailing list, it will be tweeted as well 17:50:21 Could we add it on the website somewhere? 17:50:46 eglute: LGTM 17:51:21 thank you KLevenstein 17:52:41 we are running out of time, but i think the survey was the most important topic, considering still so many questions arising about the questions. 17:52:45 spotz: yes, we can look at a way to promote it on the website 17:53:03 as a next step, i'll take a stab at incorporating the updates and send another preview to the mailing list for review by EOD 17:53:21 So I owe anyone anything?:) Just checking before we break 17:53:22 thank you lsell i will be here most of the day today 17:53:34 Do I... typing not a skillset today 17:53:41 we'll plan to distribute it via email to the foundation individual member database (approx 31K people) and then i'll let the diversity group decide where else they'd like to promote it (mailing lists, etc.) 17:53:55 thank lsell 17:54:01 +1 17:54:29 thank you all! 17:54:36 so in the etherpad discussion about religion. should we change it to the holidays question? 17:54:58 are we still ok with a close date of 10/14 and getting anonymized data by 9/16, or do we need to adjust those dates? 17:55:33 lsell that works for me. 17:55:40 eglute so instead of a list of religions a 'which of the following holidays do you celebrate? 17:55:57 spotz i am worried the holiday list would be super long 17:56:27 spotz: i think that holidays may not be the only thing that impacts folks based on religious beliefs. I think that only saying holidays may leave out other things. 17:56:56 Would it be wrong to maybe say we do not mean to offend if you're 'religion/holiday' is not listed? 17:57:00 I like the approach of asking about barriers, but think we may need to frame this, without biasing to encourage the respondents to think broadly 17:57:02 aprice good point 17:57:49 I think no matter whether its your religion or holiday we're going to leave someone out 17:58:30 Not sure who's typing but that may be the way to go:) 17:58:32 Refraze to: "Does your religious beliefs and holidays limit your particaption in OpenStack events?" 17:58:36 this? 17:58:41 yeah 17:59:18 I'm hoping we don't have a lot of I can't work with that group because someone is of x religion in it 17:59:28 you can see names if you click on the top right corner that shows number of people 17:59:35 with a follow-up of if yes, what is your religious affiliation...? 17:59:43 eglute yeah but my chat window is currently covering it:) 18:00:02 hehe 18:00:11 barrett1 yes i think that would be good 18:00:35 and let them select, plus add option for "other" if we didnt mention their religion 18:00:39 Ok so we're going with the refraze question from the etherpad and still putting together a list? 18:01:54 we are at time, but i am here until you all are available 18:01:59 spotz yes i think so 18:02:09 Ok 18:02:24 I think we should make it a short list, covering the largest religious identities with an other field 18:02:38 +1 barrett1 18:02:50 Here's one source of info: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html 18:02:55 it 18:03:06 it's older, but am looking for something more up to date 18:03:14 barrett1 i like that list 18:04:11 http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-exec/ 18:04:42 I'm not sure if that one isn't too narrow just to make it into their pretty pie chart 18:05:00 lsell AlanClark are having discussion regarding participation in ehterpad 18:05:07 here's 2010 data: http://globalreligiousfutures.org/explorer/custom#/?subtopic=15&chartType=pie&data_type=percentage&destination=from&year=2010&religious_affiliation=all&countries=Worldwide&gender=all&age_group=all 18:05:08 But next to the pie chart they do list more 18:06:44 Eglute: Do we have everything we need to move this forward? We're out of time.... 18:06:55 AlanClark lsell how would you re-fraise that question regarding participation 18:07:15 barrett1 i think there is still some finalizing done for the questions. 18:07:38 but, if you cannot stay, you dont have to 18:07:56 ok 18:08:00 sorry to run over, but i feel like we are getting a lot done :) 18:08:07 sorry got sidetracked on the etherpad. Propose to change question #5 to "Does your religious beliefs and holiday observance limit your participation in trhe community such as at OpenStack meetings and events?" 18:09:06 AlanClark I like that. Do we want a follow up question "if yes"? 18:09:21 i like that. as the follow up, rather than asking to identify their religion, i would say if yes, what are the barriers, or if yes, please give us feedback 18:09:42 lsell i think that is good as well 18:10:08 And as we'd hope it's a low number may not be bad to correlate 18:11:22 right. and with this, we will not have specific religious info. 18:11:47 +1 18:12:12 anything else that we should discuss? 18:12:24 lsell do you have everything to make the changes? 18:12:54 i think so! i'm sure there will be a few more tweaks once we send out the updated version, but we have enough for now 18:13:11 thank you! 18:13:14 lsell glad to hear it. 18:13:19 thank you lsell! 18:13:20 thank you everyone for your work today! 18:13:41 #endmeeting