19:00:04 #startmeeting Diversity-WG 19:00:05 Meeting started Mon Jun 4 19:00:04 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:06 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 19:00:09 The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' 19:00:13 #topic Roll Call 19:00:22 o/ 19:01:15 Hey 19:01:18 ohai 19:02:45 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda 19:02:50 if anyone needs it 19:03:20 o/ 19:05:26 We'll give folks another minute to join in and then we'll start 19:08:27 Hey oikiki we're just starting 19:09:59 So on the etherpad I added some feedback I had gotten towards then end of the summit. I mentioned the alcoholo free during the feedback session. But was also suggested no photo stickers and gender pronoun stickers for badges 19:10:15 Did anyone else get any feedback outside of the WG session? 19:11:13 ooh, i missed the no photos please suggestion. i might even ask to add that to my badge 19:11:32 fungi: That was actually on twitter 19:11:49 And that was something they had ot Open Source summit 19:12:07 even little stickers with you can talk to me, don't talk to me, etc 19:12:08 Does that need to be a sticker or could it be a question when you register and its printed right on to the badge? 19:12:18 alcohol free areas ought to be easy too, just cordon off a space and add some signs 19:12:51 i expect no-photos-please could just be a reg form addition/printed icon 19:13:23 Yeah and we just need to make sure it stands out vs oops I didn't see it there 19:13:32 though one up side to stickers is that it allows people to make that choice on the day of the event without needing to request a badge reprint 19:14:01 I think having it printed on the badge in a specific area will eliminate any "well I didn't see their sticker" issues. but I did not consider people changing their minds:/ 19:14:06 True, it could be a question and you're given the badge or whatever 19:14:27 something you could slip in and out of your badge holder 19:17:26 The only feedback I got that may be hard is when we have a panel have more diversity. We can't ask people their religion or sexual orientation to include them. So I think an option would be to put out a call and if someone wants to step up thatt could work 19:18:24 hi spotz thanks! 19:18:51 the foundation did get some feedback commending it on (gender and racial) diversity of the keynote speakers on monday at least. that was great to see 19:19:08 write speak code and soe other events use a red(no photos)-yellow (ask first) - green (take my photo) sticker on badges 19:19:47 That's a hard one. Because I have been to more than 1 panel discussions for diversity or women in where... there is no diversity or women on the panel. 19:19:55 Yeah the foundation has always been good about gender and racial diversity on the stage. It just gets hard when it's not a visual thing 19:19:57 im sure that the photogs sometimes mess up a bit, but when they edit, they throw out the photos that are red/yellow (taken without asking first) 19:20:23 oikiki: I think that's what they had at open source summit 19:20:24 you could also do different colored lanyards 19:20:31 which are more visible than stickers 19:20:40 oh! +1 for the colored lanyard! 19:20:43 Lanyards are a paid sponsorship, I thought of that too 19:21:26 And while I have some red Red Hat ones and some white I think the costs of having different colors might be prohibitive 19:21:31 would it be to hard to ask the sponsor to do 2 colors? White and whatever color is their "company" color. 19:21:58 I think it might depend on the company 19:22:23 yeah, a lot of attendees (well, a non-negligible number anyway) supply their own lanyards so they don't need to be sporting some corporate logo 19:22:37 i toss the lanyards and just clip my badge to my shirt pocket 19:22:53 stickers or ribbons at the bottom work too, but educating the photog and picking someone empathetic is 75% of the battle 19:24:27 Mostof the pictures outside of booth winners I think were FNTech and their photgrapher is great 19:24:44 at least for osf-run events the same logistics crew is used event to event and provides their in-house photographers who are regulars (there's only a couple of them and they've been there for ages) so if they're given some extra rules that's not likely to be a challenge 19:25:01 And a handout could be included for media 19:25:02 right, fntech, they're great 19:25:48 So I think no photos and alcohol free areas are definitely something we can proobably get done for Berlin and possibly pronoun stickers 19:25:52 at some lower-key events (e.g., ptg) we have foundation staff doing photography and they're quite aware of these sorts of concerns 19:26:25 Those sound like good acheivable goals? 19:26:40 i think so. definitely worth asking the events team about at any rate 19:26:41 i missed it but people had problems with alcohol at the summit? 19:27:28 oikiki: some people don't drink alcohol and would rather not be in contact with people who are actively drinking (for a variety of reasons) but would still like to be able to participate in at least some of the social aspect of the after-hours stuff 19:27:36 makes sense! 19:27:47 bc at kubecon they did something that i thought was interesting: they gave you 2 drink tickets for the event that had alcohol 19:28:07 and it seemed to also minimize the amount of drinking at the event 19:28:46 i think it's more that you may ascribe to a religion which forbids consumption of alcohol or maybe you're a recovering alcoholic, and so attempting to engage in conversation with someone who's buzzed/tipsy could be annoying or otherwise challenging 19:29:02 totally understood 19:29:48 i thought the drink tix were interesting bc it seemed that people didn't end up drinking all that much there generally (just as a data point) 19:29:54 What fungi said, it's just so people can have the option of going to an event and not having to be surrounded by folks drinking 19:29:57 so less about how to reduce consumption at the events (we already have some options there) but also to give those particular people a safe space 19:30:35 makes sense perhaps having a dialogue with people running the afterhours events would be helpful too? 19:30:38 Alot of events with tickets the folks who really want to end up drinking alot get more tickets from folks not drinking 19:30:55 * fungi drinks probably a bit too heavily at these things, so feels a little hypocritical championing the alcohol-free crowd, but is overly aware as a result 19:31:25 oikiki: I'll hit up Erin, Kendall adn Claire 19:31:34 thanks spotz! 19:32:05 fungi: I'm usually a one and done if that but I can see all sides 19:33:28 #action Spotz get with Erin, Kendall and Claire about alscohol-free zone, no phots and possibility of pronouns 19:33:47 Anyone else with feedback? 19:34:11 i liked that the diversity cocktail event was before the summit 19:34:53 which is kind of random feedback but having things like that in the beginning is great to meet people who you can connect iwth later on. i was also super happy to see how many people turned out at that event as allies. 19:34:54 that was really great. i also liked that we cancelled having a board/tc/uc/foundation dinner in favor of having all our community leaders meet up at the diversity social 19:35:02 oh no way! 19:35:40 figured that would be a better wat ti show our support and set an example for the rest of the community 19:35:46 er, better way to 19:35:51 wow that was a great idea! 19:36:07 it made a really great impression 19:36:11 The social will be dependent on a sponsor for Berlin so cross your fingers 19:36:33 We're also hoping the WoO networking lunch sponsor will let that be changed to a diversity one 19:36:55 i'll do my best to put a bug in the ear of the events staff in case we're struggling to get sponsorship 19:38:31 I know Red Hat said they wanted to keep sponsoring stuff so... :) 19:39:35 i think it would be nice to sub the woo networking lunch -> diversity netowroking lunch 19:39:50 if that's what you meant spotz 19:40:04 since the overlap is huge and i feel bad leaving people out 19:40:06 oikiki: The plan is to try to do that for Berlin if the sponsor (already have one) agrees if not we'll start in Denver 19:40:19 nice!!! 19:40:50 I don't know who the sponsor is yet so I can't be certain they'd be ok with it, Erin was going to check 19:40:57 agreed, as i said in the diversity wg session i skipped the woo lunch because i didn't want to intrude 19:41:24 if it were billed more clearly as a "diversity" lunch or whatever that would go a long way 19:41:49 Yeah it's weird when it was the pre-summit WoO social in Austin it was more males then females then the lunch was 90% females 19:42:35 i'll admit i accidentally ended up at the woo happy hour in dublin because i was meeting people to go find dinner and that's where they said to find them ;) 19:43:25 hehe 19:43:37 Ok let's move on as we have 17 minutes 19:43:48 #topic Survey Final draft 19:44:02 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-survey-spring-2018_final 19:44:36 If everyone could take a peek and see if there's anything obviously wrong(typos/grammar) or missing 19:44:58 I'd like to get that to aprice by end of the week. I kinda dropped the ball on getting it into one doc 19:45:39 is this going to be sent out to..? 19:46:21 do we need to indicate which of these are multi-select and which are single-select options? 19:47:29 fungi Not sure:( I know I put check all that apply on one 19:47:56 oikiki: It'll be a survey monkey or some other format we'll mail to the OpenStack lists, put out on social, etc 19:47:57 right, that's what made me wonder about some of the others which also seem like multi-select candidaets 19:48:14 fungi If you think it might just mark it? 19:48:20 will do 19:48:23 gotcha 19:48:28 we'll let Allison sort it out:) 19:48:38 question: why are certain nationalities broken out in the ethnicity question? 19:49:35 migth it be better to say: south asian (specify), east asian (specify) southeast asian (specify) bc making people be "other ..." is kind of :( 19:49:38 oikiki: The only question with choices I could really find was from the US census, so I add some from an earlier census. Then as we notmally do we'll allow folks to provide a response 19:49:42 once I get the final content, I can post the link in here to make sure that multi-select and single select are done correctly 19:50:42 If we have too many places for folks to have to write in we need a team of people to volunteer to go through and see if things are really the same 19:50:49 thanks aprice 19:51:10 np - sorry about not getting this done pre-Summit. there were so many things happening :) 19:51:27 yeah, i wonder whether usa census bureau questions are skewed towards the ethnicities that the usa census bureau cares to track 19:51:46 it is fungi 19:51:56 taking a census in another part of the world, you might ask much different ethnicity questions 19:52:02 aprice: I actually dropped the ball:( 19:52:16 I couldn't even find other census out there:( 19:52:34 that's why it hink it might be better to ask: east asian: specify 19:52:44 It almost made me want to go back to what region are you from which mozilla used 19:53:01 also there isn't an african choice they are presumably lumped into black/african american 19:53:53 i think regions make sense spotz considering openstack is a global project 19:54:28 oikiki: Only trouble with the regions is then we're not narrowed enough for the next question 19:54:57 you could ask to specify 19:55:42 it could be region:country 19:55:58 then minority yes (specify) /no /prefer not to say 19:56:31 Well we already are asking what country they reside in. We pulled out what country were you born in 19:56:58 country or region you're from does not really say anything about your ethnicity 19:57:19 while that's true, that list makes me feel really uncomfortable 19:57:20 i can tell you i'm from the us west coast but that doesn't give any information about what racial barriers i have if any 19:57:25 and conversely, your ethnicity is often defined relative to the country in context 19:57:59 but that is what teh next question asks 19:58:07 Do you identify as a member of a racial/ethnic minority in the country where you currently reside? 19:58:14 and allow people to specify 19:58:59 bc the list that's there now is not great 19:59:18 yeah, maybe we just pull out the ethnicity question? does it get us anything useful in a global context which the combination of country of residence and local minority status doesn't? 19:59:57 local minority status with option to describe is what im rooting for 20:00:51 and i think the list as it stands will get skipped or people just clicking other or feeling weird 20:01:01 Do you identify as a member of a racial/ethnic minority in the country where you currently reside? no, yes but prefer not to say, yes (freeform answer) 20:01:13 fungi Well we won't have any information in regards to ethnicity which we've been lackiut there is gender diversityng. Allw e ever really put o 20:01:21 there are a few different axes here, local minority as well as a minority within tech/open source/openstack 20:01:34 i think we care about both 20:01:53 yes i think those two questions should remain 20:01:54 i think the point is that the idea of "ethnicity" is relative not global. a global list of ethnicities may be hard to source 20:02:12 that's true 20:02:16 I'm open for alternatives, that's the great part of using an ethrepad 20:02:54 agreed fungi. if you ask these questions you have to be prepared for how people outside the us will respond and whether or not it will be useful 20:03:14 We're 2 minutes over, but we've been sitting with these in various places for at least 2 months so it'd be nice to get things finalized again and out 20:03:39 Feel free to keep going gonna close the meeting out 20:03:42 #endmeeting