17:02:04 <spotz> #startmeeting Diversity-wg
17:02:05 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 17:02:04 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:02:08 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg'
17:02:17 <spotz> #topic ROll Call
17:02:32 <cmurphy> hi o/ i'm here this time but in another meeting
17:02:59 <fungi> here as well but also on a conference call
17:03:22 <enriquetaso> o/
17:03:28 <spotz> Ok, let me poke Ell
17:03:36 <spotz> Welcome enriquetaso!
17:04:45 <spotz> She's in the wrong room:)
17:06:44 <ellopunk> I think I have said Hi in every room trying to get here:) hi
17:06:53 <spotz> ellopunk: No comment:)
17:06:53 <SWDevAngel> Hi
17:07:27 <spotz> cmurphy and fungi - are multi-tasking so we'll get started
17:07:34 <spotz> #topic Summit
17:08:06 <spotz> Not much new here, we did find out last meeting we have sponsors for Speed Mentoring(Intel) and the Diversity Lunch(IBM)
17:09:16 <spotz> I believe we;ll have the pronoun stickers again and hopefully the alcohol free section if there's a mixer. I'll see about a non-sponsored group outing one night as well
17:09:41 <spotz> Anyone have anything summit related besides that quick update?
17:10:44 <spotz> #topic Diversity CFP Day
17:11:36 <spotz> I put this on the agenda as I knew ellopunk was organizing one for San Antonio and I thought it might be of interest to members of the group even if it was too late to do one in your area this year but maybe next year
17:12:01 <ellopunk> https://www.globaldiversitycfpday.com/ to find out if there might be one in your area already
17:12:23 <spotz> SWDevAngel: I suspect you might have one
17:13:20 <ellopunk> As most things I am having issues getting attendance. I have 10 people willing to help and 6 RSVP but I have been limited by no promotion budget.
17:13:33 <SWDevAngel> Interesting. I've never seen one.
17:14:27 <SWDevAngel> Looks like the SF one is Mar 2. I wonder if Nithya is involve.d
17:15:09 * diablo_rojo got wrapped up in emails and shows up late
17:15:12 <spotz> And it's a weird time for us, Spring Summit CFP is over and it's super early for Fsll. I think we could tweet about it to get some word out, maybe hit up Women Techmakers, but that doesn't hit up all the diverse areas we were hoping to get
17:15:30 <spotz> SWDevAngel: I think they're all 3/2 or there abouts
17:15:48 <ellopunk> yup. The big push is for everyone to host on the same day.
17:17:07 <spotz> So get involved if you can, any ideas of audiences to hit up I think will be appreciated escpecially for ellopunk's:)
17:17:55 <ellopunk> Yes please! and a public thank you to Amy for agreeing to come and speak at the San Antonio event
17:18:21 <spotz> Making me ride the ponies late in the day.... :)
17:19:12 <ellopunk> I think ponies are under represented at conferences and would fully welcome them at our event.
17:19:30 <spotz> Anyone have anything else on this? Potential ideas? Maybe thoughts on doing our own versions for Summit or joining in on the official ones next year?
17:19:47 <spotz> ellopunk: Better chance of a Dalmatian getting past the Rackspace guards:)
17:21:08 <spotz> WIll give 2 minutes in case anyone is typing
17:21:15 <SWDevAngel> Yes. Bring the ponies.
17:21:45 <SWDevAngel> I can put a link to it in the user group newsletter I send out, but just curious, who's putting these events on? I hadn't really heard about them.
17:21:49 <SWDevAngel> (Still reading that website)
17:22:10 <spotz> ellopunk is the expert she roped me in:)
17:22:14 <SWDevAngel> Vanessa Diaz is listed as the SF Organizer. Does anyone know her?
17:22:24 <diablo_rojo> Nope
17:22:36 <spotz> Lets see if Google does:)
17:22:40 <SWDevAngel> https://www.globaldiversitycfpday.com/events/120
17:23:11 <SWDevAngel> Or Brian Douglas at GitHub?
17:23:25 <fungi> i don't think i've met either of them
17:23:28 <SWDevAngel> (He must be new there. I knew a bunch of the GitHub oldtimers but not recent.
17:23:57 <spotz> Vanessa might be at Docker, but apparently it's a popular name
17:24:13 <spotz> inc0 is now at Git Hub, but not sure if he'd know him
17:24:20 <diablo_rojo> I might have met Brian at KubeCon but I am so bad with names lol
17:24:42 <ellopunk> So the events are all independently hosted. There is a larger group that offers a little bit of support like maintaining the website or giving ideas for content but that's about it on their end
17:24:43 <SWDevAngel> You can see his pic on that link above. Or Liv Erickson. Looks like a really cool event.
17:25:15 <ellopunk> If they get reports of an event not keeping the ideals of the event they also ban that person from being listed as an organizer.
17:25:41 <SWDevAngel> Have these events been running for a number of years?
17:26:11 <SWDevAngel> I'll see if I can reach out to the organizers and offer some help, but yeah, the timing isn't great. I'm pretty sure I can't be in SF to attend that day.
17:26:55 <ellopunk> As far as I know this is the second year .
17:26:55 <spotz> Cool
17:27:23 <ellopunk> https://twitter.com/jiggy_pete
17:27:45 <ellopunk> That is the nice man who has answered all of my questions. (Global Organizer)
17:27:49 <spotz> Any thing else on this? We're doing fine on time
17:29:34 <spotz> #topic Mentoring/Most Wanted List
17:30:16 * diablo_rojo puts first contact sig hat on
17:31:49 <spotz> So mentoring has been under D&I for almost a year, since Vancouver. We switched from 1on1 style to cohort mentoring in the hopes it would be easier for everyone, more inviting for newcomers and also help grow ties between cohort members. While people have signed up nothing has really come of it.
17:32:18 <spotz> Now one thing to note on the Most Wanted List discussions was the mentioning of 1 on 1 mentoring again
17:32:56 <fungi> one thing the recent ml thread highlighted for me is that most of the tc members seem to be unaware of what's going on with the existing mentoring effort
17:33:00 <diablo_rojo> I don't think a 1x1 program was really what is being asked for
17:33:25 <fungi> (and by proxy, i think most of the community isn't aware_
17:33:42 <diablo_rojo> Basically they just want a curated list of people that want new people in their projects that are willing to help.
17:33:55 <diablo_rojo> Not any coordination of actual mentoring.
17:34:03 <diablo_rojo> That's up to the people that volunteer to be on the list.
17:34:32 <diablo_rojo> Since its super similar to the project liaison list I said that this other list could live with the FC SIG.
17:34:37 <spotz> fungi much hasn't, we tried a BoF session in Berlin but were in the basement and had 2 attendees. The panel actually turned into a group discussion
17:34:53 <diablo_rojo> I think the cohort mentoring program isnt really affected here.
17:34:57 <diablo_rojo> It has a different goal.
17:35:14 <diablo_rojo> Er...like...it targets different people?
17:35:25 <spotz> Well it has the partial same goal of getting first commits though is wider in range
17:35:25 <diablo_rojo> They should work together though?
17:35:50 <fungi> oh, perhaps. the proposal as i interpreted it was that the tc was looking for people willing to help mentor new contributors
17:36:13 <cmurphy> I don't think it's about just making another list
17:36:17 <spotz> fungi: That's how I've been reading it as well which is why I pinged Jill and Ell
17:37:10 <spotz> And this morning I thought Theirry mentioned 1 on 1
17:37:18 <cmurphy> it needs to be a focused and coordinated effort to guide people towards productive participation in projects that need the most help
17:37:34 <cmurphy> not just getting newbies first patch in
17:37:44 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, that is my read on it too I think.
17:37:57 <diablo_rojo> Looking at it coming from the help most wanted list.
17:38:10 <cmurphy> diablo_rojo: right, but just raising your hand and saying "i can help" is not enough i think
17:38:13 <spotz> Yeah help most wanted is definitely more focused to a single project
17:38:31 <fungi> i mostly just wanted o be sure whatever this new effort is, 1. it doesn't unduly gut the existing work to try and get mentorship options into the community, 2. if possible it helps support those existing efforts or at least learns from their history and doesn't set out to make the same mistakes/invalid assumptions about what will and won't work
17:38:57 <spotz> cmurphy: And the opposite of I'd like to get help which we see a lot of too
17:39:02 <spotz> fungi +100
17:39:07 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, agreed. It would require more effort if someone actually shows up wanting to work on the project they ar ementoring in.
17:39:28 <diablo_rojo> fungi, +2
17:39:46 <cmurphy> diablo_rojo: and also proper advertising for the project that needs help so that people can tell whether they would be interested and know what they are getting into
17:39:52 <spotz> If what we have now isn't working and isn't meeting the needs we either need to change and adapt what we have or something
17:40:07 <diablo_rojo> Agreed.
17:40:54 <spotz> Do we need to focus on say 3 of the most wanteds maybe?
17:40:55 <ellopunk> Jill and I tried to get the conversation going but it really just turned in to us talking to our selves :/
17:41:25 <spotz> ellopunk: I know:(
17:41:39 <diablo_rojo> spotz, the problem is its hard to prioritize and maintain such a thing
17:41:50 <diablo_rojo> At what point do they get kicked off the list?
17:41:55 <diablo_rojo> When will new ones be added?
17:41:57 <diablo_rojo> Etc.
17:43:04 <spotz> How do projects get added now?
17:43:26 <fungi> from the tc help wanted perspective, i think the ultimate goal is to provide projects with an avenue to get new people on their maintenance teams over time, but i think that presupposes there are people who are looking for something to contribute to, or know a project they want to contribute to but don't know how to get their efforts thoroughly enfranchised
17:44:10 <diablo_rojo> spotz, I think its been the same list since its inception and its never really changed, but I could be wrong.
17:44:30 <cmurphy> what i would like to see is sort of the job-advertisement thing that was talked about on the thread, where a project might say "we need 1 person who is interested in X and we have these N specific things that we are working towards" and when someone gets in contact and starts doing the work then they get taken off the list
17:44:47 <fungi> diablo_rojo: pretty much, if you keep in mind that the entries there were accumulated one at a time over a span of some months
17:45:12 <cmurphy> the current help wanted list doesn't really have a criteria for taking things off the list
17:45:35 <fungi> agreed, it's more of a "this team/project is struggling, please send help"
17:45:50 <fungi> message in a bottle
17:46:32 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, that would be good for getting actual movement on/off the list
17:47:18 <diablo_rojo> SOunds a bit like an outreachy proposal for an intern
17:47:23 <spotz> Ok typing an idea.. please hold:)
17:47:38 <cmurphy> outreachy is problematic because it's a 3 month long internship and the interns usually go away
17:47:48 <cmurphy> ideally this would foster long-term maintainership
17:48:39 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, agreed :) Longer term would be better.
17:48:53 <diablo_rojo> Was more just noting the similarity
17:49:03 <spotz> So if we could get more attention/support/activity so that the current mentoring program could work. What about help wanteds being on the FC SIGs laison lst and being passed to that?
17:49:13 <fungi> even just enforcing that the entry must come with an obvious condition which needs to be met so that we know when it can be removed would be a great improvement
17:50:08 <spotz> We still have the issue of figuring how to get folks active on both sides of the mentorship, but that is going to happen whether we use the cohort group or something else
17:50:32 <diablo_rojo> Having an obvious completion criteria is a must. I think that list living with the FC SIG is fine. When people come to the mentoring program and don't have a preference for a project, that list is where they should go .
17:51:07 <fungi> out of curiosity, do we see many people in that situation?
17:51:24 <fungi> i guess that's at least some percentage of the oui students?
17:51:50 <diablo_rojo> OUI is a different thing- there we do regularly get people that don't have preferences.
17:51:52 <spotz> I think we have better luck with OUI then the mentoring program
17:52:03 <diablo_rojo> I can't speak to the current sign ups with the Mentoring program
17:52:37 <fungi> sure, more just wondering if a significant proportion of oui students are also possible candidates for longer-term mentoring or cohort mentoring
17:53:06 <fungi> i.e., they're looking for something to do (as well as for someone to help them understand how to do it)
17:54:04 <fungi> though i guess the help wanted is more for folks who are looking for something to do while the cohort mentoring is focused more on folks who already know what they want to get done?
17:54:09 <spotz> Some of the cohort topics might be of interest but like first patch would be almost accomplished in OUI
17:54:26 <diablo_rojo> Ah, well we mention mentoring in OUI but we can push it more.
17:54:34 <diablo_rojo> We don't really go into detail.
17:54:43 <spotz> fungi know they want to sublit a patch or a cfp, etc
17:54:57 <fungi> right, have some specific goal in mind already
17:55:04 <spotz> 6 minutes FYI though I think we're having a good discussion
17:55:07 <cmurphy> what have the cohort topics been about? (I never got involved because I was doing outreachy)
17:55:35 <spotz> ellopunk: You have the full list handy? I know COA, first patch and CFP
17:55:59 <diablo_rojo> We havent really kept track of who from OUI goes onto mentoring
17:56:05 <cmurphy> my thought is that perhaps the target audience for this new thing is slightly different than the audience that cohort mentoring or outreachy reaches
17:56:06 <diablo_rojo> but its something we cna start tracking
17:56:50 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, I would say its definitely a different audience than out reachy and mostly separate than the cohort mentoring, but not 100%
17:58:18 <fungi> also i guess there's not much point to the coa cohort soon (or it needs to get retargeted to other certification programs at the very least)
17:58:47 <diablo_rojo> cmurphy, I feel like its a similar discussion to the contributor portal we had in Berlin where there are like 100k paths into the community lol
17:58:57 <cmurphy> heh yeah
17:59:00 <diablo_rojo> fungi, yeah thats another thing to mention
17:59:14 <spotz> yeah I think there's some but not total overlap in the gtheory behind it. But if cohorts aren't taking off maybe it can be adjusted so Ell and Jill's effoerts aren't wasted
17:59:31 <spotz> fungi Meeting on that on Friday:)
17:59:50 <cmurphy> that's why I'd like to understand better what the cohort mentoring has been up to and how it works
18:00:00 <fungi> i agree the first patch cohort seems like it could be pretty lightweight when combined with online resources like the contributor guide and the gerrit review automation tonyb's designing
18:03:01 <spotz> cmurphy: Besides being reformed from the 1on1 mentoring and having people sign up as mentors and mentees nothing has happened. There;s a channel and ML, Jill, Ell and a few mentors tried to get conversations started but nothing
18:03:08 <diablo_rojo> I should draw a huge decision tree for all this
18:03:39 <fungi> flowchart! ;)
18:03:40 <diablo_rojo> spotz, not to say that the 1x1 mentoring program went super far ever either
18:03:47 <diablo_rojo> fungi, yeah basically
18:03:54 <diablo_rojo> I keep talking about it, but I think it might be time
18:04:40 <fungi> didn't someone (maybe it was you?) recently point out another community who has a simple new contributor flowchart to help explain their onboarding?
18:05:07 <fungi> though i think it was referred to as an "infographic"
18:05:36 <spotz> Ok just for referrence we are 6 minutes over, I say keep going though
18:05:40 <diablo_rojo> fungi, it was ildikov :)
18:05:53 <diablo_rojo> But also a think I have been talking about since like...vancouver?
18:05:54 <SWDevAngel> Okay, I've gotta run! Great chatting with y'all! :)
18:06:05 <diablo_rojo> or maybe it was Sydney?
18:06:07 <ildikov> what did I do again? :)
18:06:18 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, your nfv flowchart
18:06:32 <spotz> thanks SWDevAngel
18:06:33 * cmurphy still at the office and would like to go home, will be back in a few minutes if meeting is still going on
18:06:35 <ildikov> ah, that one
18:07:30 <ildikov> https://www.opnfv.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2016/11/opnfv_infographic.jpg
18:08:27 <fungi> that's the one, thanks!
18:08:34 <ildikov> np :)
18:08:59 * diablo_rojo has to disappear in 22 min as a heads up
18:09:03 <ildikov> we tried to keep it simple but still informative on how the OPNFV community roughly operates
18:09:55 <ildikov> I think we used a printed version of it on site for the first OPNFV Summit as well
18:10:09 <ildikov> never measured how much it actually helped, but people liked it
18:10:46 <ildikov> so if we plan to do smth similar for OpenStack and/or OSF projects overall I fully support the idea :)
18:11:46 <diablo_rojo> I will start throwing things on paper this week
18:12:00 <diablo_rojo> if we could get something in time for the summit...
18:14:42 <fungi> seems like discussion is winding down?
18:15:13 <diablo_rojo> fungi, yeah?
18:15:44 <spotz> Ok let me close the log and I'll put it on the agenda again for next meeting?
18:15:47 <fungi> in that case i'm gonna go grab some lunch ;)
18:15:58 <fungi> thanks spotz!!!
18:16:17 <spotz> #endmeeting