17:00:15 <spotz> #startmeeting diversity-wg
17:00:16 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 17:00:15 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:17 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:00:19 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg'
17:00:27 <diablo_rojo> o/
17:00:28 <spotz> #topic Roll Call
17:00:35 <spotz> SWDevAngel: ping
17:00:57 <diablo_rojo> spotz, lol is the the only one on the ping list?
17:00:58 <SWDevAngel> Hi
17:01:29 <SWDevAngel> Ha! Don't worry Kendall - I got pinged too! ;) (I was timezone challenged and logged in an hour ago!)
17:02:04 <spotz> I had the same timezone issue as I'm used to this running right after UC:)
17:02:25 <spotz> We should make an official ping list though:)
17:02:49 <spotz> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda
17:02:57 <SWDevAngel> Yes, I'd vote for that. (Sorry... but that's how hectic it is these days... I ALWAYS appreciate the ping! ;)
17:03:00 <spotz> Ans I just added a ping list spot to the top of that:)
17:03:03 <diablo_rojo> Just set your calendar block to be in UTC and it scales correctly :)
17:03:16 <SWDevAngel> Ahhhhhh, nice pro-tip!
17:03:40 <spotz> I have that which is why I rely on my calendar. My work one also has one column for my time zone and one for Luxembourg:)
17:03:44 <diablo_rojo> SWDevAngel, especially now that google has support for UTC (previously I set everything to Rekjavik)
17:04:32 <spotz> #topic Summit
17:04:32 <SWDevAngel> Yeah - iCal won't let me do it on the Mac... but I can do it from the phone. go figure...
17:04:59 <diablo_rojo> Another reason added to the list to be anti-apple ;)
17:05:18 <spotz> Currently working with Jimmy to move the Survey Results session as it's currently up against the Chasing Grace screening which it can't compete against
17:06:28 <spotz> It would be an empty room and I'd have to ditch the UC session to man it
17:07:24 <SWDevAngel> Agreed. Let's not try and compete with Chasing Grace! That would kind defeat the purpose. ;)
17:07:45 <SWDevAngel> What day is that? (Please say Tues or Wed)
17:07:56 <spotz> Yeah, and I keep getting put in to run sessions and don't know about it:(
17:08:12 <spotz> SWDevAngel: Tuesday right after the Diversity Lunch I believe, I'll double check
17:08:24 <SWDevAngel> Great!
17:08:30 <SWDevAngel> I'm checking too...
17:08:32 <diablo_rojo> spotz, therein lies the problem with being involved with so many things
17:08:36 <spotz> 1:40-2:20 for Chasing Grace
17:09:03 <SWDevAngel> @diablo_rojo and with being SO POPULAR (@spotz)
17:09:17 <fungi> i very much appreciated the ml post with the list of diversity-relevant sessions. thanks spotz!
17:09:35 <diablo_rojo> Yes that was wonderful
17:09:48 <spotz> fungi: Yeah need to send a correction for the survey results and add Chasing Grace once Jimmy and I get that finalized:)
17:10:00 <fungi> as diablo_rojo, i will attempt to be present for as many as possible, but ETOOMANYHATS
17:10:39 <fungi> my hat recursion has reached the interpreter's stack limit
17:11:09 <spotz> Ok Survey results are 2:30-3:10 on Wednesday now:)
17:11:37 <spotz> Ok so updated email will go out after this meeting.
17:11:51 <spotz> diablo_rojo: Can you give updated counts for Speed Mentoring on Monday?
17:12:17 * diablo_rojo looks
17:12:32 <spotz> I asked Nicole if Intel had any idea of available lunches just in case that will allow us to have some walk-ins for mentees at least
17:13:06 <diablo_rojo> 12 total RSVPS: 5 metees and 7 mentors
17:13:14 <diablo_rojo> (2 of those 7 are you and me spotz )
17:13:22 <SWDevAngel> Okay cool for the Survey results. I can be there. (My session is the 3:20 time slot on Wed.)
17:14:02 <spotz> Ok and I mainly RSVPed to get it to show on my schedule though I always step in and mentor if short handed
17:15:03 <spotz> so at this point in time it'll be almost one on ones:) Can yo email Nicole and I the mentors when you get a chance?
17:15:33 <spotz> And then probably again over the weekend as people had signed up over the weekend at Berlin and I didn't know to reach out to them
17:16:22 <diablo_rojo> spotz, sure. I will send that to you later this afternoon
17:16:54 <spotz> I'm hoping we'll have the pronoun stickers again and that this time due to no customs the'll actually make it there for registration. Also crossing fingers for an alcohol free section at the mixer this time around.
17:17:32 <fungi> i think someone said the stickers have already arrived in denver and are being held for us
17:17:37 <spotz> All other evening activities will be with Alcohol, I did not attempt to schedule an alternative event this time around as it would have to be private
17:17:41 <spotz> fungi: Sweet:)
17:17:58 <fungi> i *could* be mistaking that for something else though. so much going on
17:18:18 <spotz> And with only 3 days of Summit it really just seemed kind of tight to get something in
17:18:20 <fungi> but anyway, they're supposed to be prominently placed at the registration counter
17:18:51 <spotz> :)
17:19:45 <spotz> So that's Monday as far as Diversity. Tuesday now is the Diversity Networking Lunch and as mentioned I'll re-email out with the Chasing Grace screeening
17:20:09 <spotz> There is the sponsored party that night which I'm assuming is also Lauren's fairwell?
17:20:32 <fungi> that's what i gather
17:20:41 <spotz> Which is one reason I'm not attempting another outing on Tuesday so we can properly say goodbye to Lauren as a community
17:21:58 <fungi> wes just confirmed for me that pronoun stickers are supposed to be made available at the reg counter this time, so sounds like that's all set
17:22:45 <spotz> Wednesday is now the Diversity WG BoF - which is the we need mentoring leaders session, followed by the D&I WG session where I will not say 'guys' and then at 2:30 we will now have the survey results session
17:23:27 <spotz> So unless I missed something that is all the diversity related/sponsored sessions
17:24:35 <spotz> Anyone have anything else in regards to this?
17:25:10 <spotz> #topic Survey Results
17:25:50 <spotz> I still need to go through the data that was returned from the CHAOSS folks to aprice and myself to put the slides together for next week but a few things to note
17:28:12 <spotz> 2015 - we had 445 males and 73 females which were the only options. Keeping inmind I think we had 1/5th the responses this time we had 81 males, 34 females, 7 gender nonconforming, 1 gender variant, 1 genderfluid, 1 gender confusion, 1 gender indifferent and 1 genderless so we definitely had more selections there then when it was M/F/Other which I think is important to note
17:29:35 <spotz> Statistically on the questions where prefer not to say was an option I think we were a bit higher on that response
17:30:57 <SWDevAngel> Thanks Amy- I just put ALL of that in my cal! Super helpful! (Also, if you type in "diversity" in the summit schedule most of that pops up now with the corrected new times, so that's cool! :)
17:31:06 <spotz> Blank responses unfortunately skew some things in my opinion but I'll check with Matt and see what he thinks we should do with those
17:31:48 <spotz> SWDevAngel: Yeah I was searching on diversity to find the stuff or my name, but that's how I missed the Chasing Grace conflict until I had a UC conflict
17:32:23 <SWDevAngel> Yeah - lots going on! (Which is cool!)
17:32:49 <SWDevAngel> I'll sadly miss the Mentoring as I don't arrive until Monday night (late). Definitely want to be there for Lauren's THANK YOU and sendoff!
17:32:50 <spotz> Survey results don;t stand a chance in the hype and attendance against Chasing Grace
17:33:19 <spotz> SWDevAngel: Make sure yo RSVP on eventbrite
17:33:39 <SWDevAngel> To the Diversity lunch? Orr.....
17:34:22 <spotz> Well if you want in for the diversity lunch RSVP from the OpenStack site or you will not get in. Lauren's sendoff if it's at the night event is RSVP on eventbrite
17:34:40 <SWDevAngel> Yes, I did that (for the lunch)
17:35:07 <spotz> As no lunch is provided at summit this year we're stressing people need to RSVP for speed mentoring and diversity lunch as they won't be let in
17:35:13 <SWDevAngel> And okay - thanks for the heads up. Didn't realize that. I was only aware of that Trillio party Tuesday night.
17:35:50 <spotz> I think Trillio is one of the sponsors I'd have to go look, mainly signed up for if it was the Lauren fairewell
17:36:34 <spotz> So please tweet/retweet any pushes for speed mentoring and networking lunch due to RSVPs
17:37:18 <spotz> Ok anyone want to discuss the very exciting survey results? I will make sure the session slides are available after I make them:)
17:39:38 <spotz> And I've popped the email off to Matt about dealing with the blanks.
17:41:11 <fungi> happy to talk about survey results, sure
17:41:48 <spotz> hehe
17:44:45 <spotz> Ok will need to go into the written responses but in 2015 51% mentioned barriers to participation which is how we ended up with the Git and Gerrit session from Tokyo to Berlin. in 2019 its up to 62% saying there's barriers to participation. Definitely as a group we will need to go through them. Just need to make sure anyone who needs an NDA to see the raw results has one signed and the results will be distributed
17:44:45 <spotz> privately or I'll need to go through and make some generalizations
17:45:54 <fungi> i expect generalizations will be useful regardless, since it's hard to talk about the issues with anyone who doesn't sign an nda otherwise
17:46:35 <spotz> Geography is mentioned a few times, in regards to timezones, events
17:46:53 <spotz> Hrm one mention of Gerrit review process:(
17:47:19 <spotz> Someone doesn't know about devstack:(
17:48:14 <spotz> Some things seem project specific like developer docs, cliqish, cross project silos.
17:48:19 <spotz> Not sure how to get started:(
17:48:20 <fungi> geography is not a huge surprise. objections to the community's established workflows on the other hand seems likely missing the point. it's like saying you aren't contributing to the linux kernel because you can't e-mail patches to a mailing list
17:48:58 <spotz> hard to get code reviewed/merged if you're not known:(
17:49:43 <fungi> yes, though that's not really a diversity issue is it?
17:50:12 <spotz> Unfortunately we don't have the information to tie things together like the cliqish one which also mentions agism
17:50:58 <fungi> yep, if we can figure out that people aren't reviewing someone's code because they're not friends with the right people or because of their age, then those are things we can try to address
17:51:46 <fungi> if it's complaints about the learning curve, on the other hand, i personally have a hard time believing that folks of all walks of life aren't equally capable of learning how to perform complex tasks given sufficient training and documentation
17:52:20 <spotz> Yeah so not really Diversity unless we can tie things together but we're the only ones who ask the questions. We asked in 2015, WoO was extremely active and we ran Git and Gerrit for like 7 summits until this one and always had about 20 people in the room
17:52:58 <spotz> Well one person complained about the developer docs bein a barrier, but we don't know what project to attempt to help there.
17:53:12 <spotz> I know some projects are definitely better then others as far as docs
17:53:33 <fungi> and was it a barrier because the docs were poorly written? if so, probably equally discriminatory to all regardless of who they are
17:53:59 <spotz> I think lacking, but I'm not afraid to ask questions on channels and the lists. A new person probably is
17:54:34 <spotz> eww toxic masculinity..... I really want to know what project for that:(
17:54:43 <spotz> 6 minute warning FYI
17:55:00 <fungi> i'm more interested in survey results which indicate challenges due to privileging one specific group over others, so "toxic masculinity" definitely counts
17:55:27 <fungi> whereas "poor documentation" not so much
17:55:29 <spotz> And some are lime me, doing it on their own time and not enough time in the day which we can't help
17:55:40 <spotz> lime=like:)
17:56:22 <fungi> i think we would love to help make getting involved easier for people with little free time, but yes that's a very hard (and known) problem to tackle
17:56:31 <spotz> But we ask the question very open ended so get non-diversity controllable answers and some which are
17:57:00 <fungi> totally agree, i think it's more on us to filter out the diversity-relevant feedback from the general project/community feedback
17:57:11 <spotz> And to encourage people just to respond we don't have enough to tie things together like the toxic masculinity one cause I've never run into it
17:57:49 <spotz> So I can't say oh I know which project:( We can only hope to ask that person to come forward priveately
17:58:22 <fungi> i am unfortunately probably too blind to it to feel like i would reliably spot it
17:58:59 <fungi> but i also don't know what specific qualities are associated with masculinity by the responding individual, nor what amount of those registers as toxic
17:59:14 <spotz> I can only say I've been lucky enough not to run into it or for it to not be bad enough for me to notice it but just cause I idle on a channel doesn't mean I read all the messages
17:59:22 <spotz> Correct
17:59:29 <spotz> Ok one minute
17:59:35 <spotz> #topic Open Discussion
17:59:43 <spotz> Anyone have anything before we break?
18:00:44 <SWDevAngel> I'm good! Thanks Amy!!! See you Tues!
18:01:06 <fungi> thanks spotz!!!
18:01:15 <spotz> See everyone Sunday/Monday/Tuesday depending on when I run into you:)
18:01:22 <spotz> #endmeeting