17:00:31 #startmeeting diversity-wg 17:00:32 Meeting started Mon Feb 1 17:00:31 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 17:00:34 IRC works for me. I have a hard stop at the bottom of the hour but will join for 30 mins 17:00:35 The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' 17:00:36 #topic Roll Call 17:01:24 Agenda link 17:01:27 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda 17:01:34 ahoy! 17:01:51 \o 17:01:54 Greetings 17:02:50 #topic Auditing the OIF Bylaws 17:03:27 this sounds exciting 17:04:07 SO in the board meeting last week while reviewing some sections it was pointed out the chair was referred to as He everywhere. So we got the action item of looking through and seeing where those are and finding other issues 17:04:11 Feel free to "take notes" in the etherpad. I put a few in and will continue until 9:30am PT. 17:04:22 SWDevAngel: The bot logs everything:) 17:04:48 Okay, then I'll just note the highlights. ;) 17:04:49 It's only the jitsu meetings we need to take notes 17:04:55 ahhh, got it. 17:05:02 But thanks:) 17:05:12 Sure. Just trying to be helpful. :) 17:05:14 also if we want to highlight anything in the generated minutes we can use directives like #info or #agreed 17:06:55 #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/bylaws-of-the-openstack-foundation/ 17:07:28 I believe these are the docs we were looking through. Some parts of the docs the Board can edit themselves but some sections would need legal and member sto vote on 17:08:24 While going through, should we keep an eye out for other language as well? 17:08:37 I don't see why not. Catch everything you can! 17:09:17 Yep definitely, the issue came out because Alan was He and Allison is She so we need non-gender changes. So that is a given 17:10:00 But if anyone sees anything else let's make note if it. Let me make an etherpad. And I'll also confirm iif there's any other sections of the site we need to focus on 17:10:33 Thank you 17:10:53 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-legal-audit 17:11:36 And of course I can't find the tab I just opened the docs in:( 17:12:56 I'm with ya on "tab sprawl" ... it's real! 17:13:43 fungi: Do you happen to have the opendev link for the bylaws? 17:14:58 #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/bylaws-of-the-openstack-foundation BYLAWS OF THE OPENSTACK FOUNDATION 17:15:18 that's still the current url afaik 17:15:52 ahh, you already linked that earlier 17:15:57 what are you looking for? 17:16:18 source code? 17:17:27 During the board meeting we had some opendev links which was a little newer then openstack 17:17:43 huh, i'm not aware of any of that being in opendev 17:17:51 openinfra.dev maybe? 17:18:04 For example in OpenStack corporate sponsoors on opendev silver membership was the term 17:19:05 jamesmcarthur: ^ maybe you're aware of a newer copy of the bylaws published elsewhere? 17:19:35 And the bylaws may not be different between the two:) 17:20:15 If I find any more pages I'll add it to the etherpad page 17:20:22 We are in the middle of updating the language on all of the legal docs. Working with the lawyers. 17:20:56 The bylaws currently live on openstack.org 17:21:10 jamesmcarthur: Sounds good. We'll focus on those 17:21:11 yeah, i didn't think there was a newer url for those 17:21:18 thanks for confirming jamesmcarthur! 17:21:33 The tab method of storing work is not the best workflow:) 17:22:25 i use the "dump urls in a text file" methid, which has the benefit of reducing my open tabs, but is otherwise not all that much better 17:22:37 I always vow to find a better workflow, open some tabs to research, then forget and close :P it doesn't work either 17:22:56 Ok anything else we want to discuss today on this? Or we'll go put stuff in the etherpad and circle back to discuss next meeting 17:22:57 20 open tabs on how to have fewer open tabs ;) 17:23:24 ha ha 17:23:29 I have well over 100 plus 2 broswers with multiple windows:) 17:24:20 I have a question... are there any upcoming events on the horizon? Even stuff y'all are attending but not sponsoring. Just curious where everyone is planning on hanging out all winter/spring? 17:24:30 spotz: I started documenting in the etherpad already, we can all probably take some time to do that before the next meeting and circle back 17:24:52 megheisler=purple:) 17:25:24 Ooops, always forget to add my name, done now 17:25:41 Well like I'm always green fungi=black, etc:) 17:26:00 I dunno why it makes me that mauve/pink color. I really don't like that color. 17:26:05 i found an easy color to reapply every time my cookie gets reset 17:26:45 it just picks a random color for you and tries to persist it in a session cookie, but you can select a color with the color wheel 17:26:57 Yeah I just always change to some green 17:27:08 Ok moving on:) 17:27:10 however i find the cookie it's in expires or gets blown away from time to time 17:27:37 #topic finalizing questions for the User Survey 17:27:40 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-project-questions 17:28:26 Are we good and happy with these? Jimmy answered we can have one question leading to another question based on response 17:29:27 I re worded the one question to multiple choice if anyone has a thought there, but otherwise I was happier with it 17:30:01 happier now or before? 17:30:06 now 17:30:56 Ok sweet 17:30:56 the answer is more definitive and won't require anyone to share a personal grievance that may identify them 17:31:10 The other questions all make sense 17:31:12 I added a thought/suggestion. I'd like to frame these in language that assumes the work will happen, so let's get a timeframe question instead of "are you or are you not" question. 17:31:35 if that makes sense. You can see my suggestion (in pink... sigh.) 17:31:46 yeah, as mentioned in here before the meeting, if we do a freeform question, we'll need wg members to analyze the responses under an nda, and can't publish any of them without obtaining consent 17:32:00 I need to start another meeting now but will keep this thread open and monitor later. :) 17:32:18 Was just reading that SWDevAngel - I was wondering of are you aware of a plan vs is there a plan? 17:32:27 i'm not opposed to the idea of freeform answers, just want to make sure we know what that entails 17:33:21 Yeah I've gone through and helped before iit's important stuff sometimes but even if there's a difference in the order of the words the 2 answers need to be compared and determined if the same or different and tagged 17:34:04 So if there's room at the end you can have an open did we forget something because the number of answers is minimal 17:34:25 vs we need everyone to respond to the open ended 17:34:50 right, survey takers are far more likely to skip freeform answer questions 17:35:14 so the quality of feedback might improve when using them, but the quantity will almost certainly nosedive 17:35:25 I won't lie I do it all the time 17:35:38 skip them that is 17:36:42 That makes sense to me, yeah, there are some open ended survey questions that I won't answer if I don't feel strongly about it. So we may only get very strong answers one way or the other and people who didn't feel strongly just skip it 17:37:46 not to mention, those open ended questions are like an invitation for people to rant, so it can be draining to read through the vitriol in some responses 17:38:21 fungi: Yeah like the last D&I survey:( 17:38:42 Ok I just put some possible responses to the question we're discussing on the etherpad 17:40:54 thanks! 17:41:28 I almost think we could make another yes to add in the folowwing question but not sure it's worth it 17:42:56 I do think even the two multiple choice questions will yield some good information and help us understand where projects are on this effort 17:43:15 i do wonder if we should be phrasing things around "choosing inclusive language" rather than "avoiding divisive language" 17:43:35 Yeah and like I said I can make another yes to get us down one more question. I agree fungi. let me type give ke 2 17:43:39 the former seems more positive and action-oriented 17:44:15 also focusing on the negative will tend to draw more trolls 17:44:25 agreed, I will re word 17:45:00 it's part of why i called the wiki page with our list of alternative terminology "inclusivity" 17:45:45 also helps frame it that our goal is to actually be more inclusive, rather than simply trying not to be divisive 17:46:18 I think that is great point! 17:46:24 Ok I moved questions I didn't think we were interested in asking or are asked by other questions to the bottom, changed divisive to inclusive everywhere and added a new response to the question 17:46:46 awesome 17:47:27 great 17:49:41 That gets to 3 which I think will make aprice happy. Are those what we want? Any rewording? 17:50:53 We have 10 minutes FYI 17:50:55 I can't think of anything to change 17:53:21 i suggested one minor tweak to avoid things sounding too redundant, but on the whole it lgtm 17:53:33 #action spotz to send questions to aprice for inclusion later today 17:53:46 I'll give SWDevAngel a chance to comment this afternoon before sending 17:58:16 #topic Open Floor 17:58:25 Anyone have anything for the last 2 minutes? 17:58:41 i had an opportunity to plug our inclusivity wiki article in a comment on a starlingx docs review just a few minutes ago 17:58:55 Sweet! 17:58:58 #link https://review.opendev.org/773155 HTML sanity checks 17:59:33 figure that's an example of the sorts of ways we can bring it to the attention of people down in the trenches hacking on code and writing docs 18:00:44 AND MARRY ATTENDED A FEW OF THE PTG/SUMMIT SESSIONS WE HAD 18:00:46 oops 18:00:47 very nice! 18:00:59 And Mary.... I swaer I can't type 18:01:23 you seem appropriately excited about it ;) 18:01:26 And we're at time so goiong to end the meeting. Thanks everyone! 18:01:31 hehe 18:01:31 thanks! 18:01:36 #endmeeting