14:02:25 <spotz> #startmeeting diversity_wg
14:02:25 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Tue Jan 10 14:02:25 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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14:02:25 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg'
14:02:34 <spotz> #topic Roll Call
14:02:40 <spotz> #chair fungi
14:02:40 <opendevmeet> Current chairs: fungi spotz
14:03:16 <fungi> ohai
14:03:39 <spotz> I don't think we'll have anyone else but lets give them 2 minutes
14:03:51 <fungi> sure
14:06:03 <spotz> Ok let's get going as we had a lot last time with these same topics
14:06:12 <spotz> #topic Summit Planning
14:06:33 <spotz> Were you able to get with Erin?
14:07:10 <fungi> that was the one of two things i took on last meeting that i didn't get to yet, i think. but now i can't remember what the other one was
14:07:56 <fungi> ahh, right, i did reach out about the survey topic, but not the summit yet. i need to finish putting that list together
14:09:02 <spotz> Ok
14:09:48 <fungi> i'll stuff the list into our agenda pad so it's a little mor concise
14:11:02 <spotz> Ok is there anything we can work on for Summit ourselves in the meantime? I did put in for a BoF session, a 30 minute one as we could always move out into the hall after if needed
14:12:11 <fungi> that sounds good. i don't know if there are specific topics anyone wants to present on (the cfp deadline has been quietly extended to next week so there's still time)
14:12:36 <fungi> though also we can do forum sessions, those aren't decided until later
14:13:52 <spotz> Yeah in the system it says April 21 I think but when I asked Erin yesterday if didn't seem like that would be a hard date
14:14:07 <fungi> looks like we already put the summit recommendations in the agenda etherpad last meeting, so unless there are any more you can think of i'll stuff those into an e-mail this week
14:14:57 <spotz> I was going to just reach out to Erin and Allison if they want Git and Gerrit run vs going through the CFP and taking up a slot that is usually run during lunch anyways
14:15:19 <spotz> Yeah that looks good
14:20:10 <spotz> I'm assuming most of that will be fairly easy easy being in Vanouver vs a longer haul
14:20:45 <spotz> And once we truly get it as a routine our list will just be part of the larger checklist for events
14:21:30 <fungi> yes, my goal was to have these suggestion over to them far enough in advance to be actionable
14:21:36 <fungi> er, these suggestions
14:24:18 <spotz> Yeah and some stuff might already be in process like the stickers. Comfort level I don't think we've done more then just Berlin
14:25:36 <fungi> right, even if it's stuff they already planned to do, it's good to give them a reminder people are interested in continuing to do that
14:26:50 <spotz> Yeah and I do think going through the CHAOSS badging is important as well, I think we actually do some of it like Diversity Tickets and travel support but it's not worded clearly. We just all 'know'
14:33:23 <spotz> Ok anything else we need to discuss about Summit?
14:34:36 <fungi> nope, i'll get this sent along
14:36:40 <spotz> #topic 2023 D&I Survey
14:37:10 <fungi> i did at least get around to sending an e-mail about this after the last meeting
14:37:22 <spotz> Woohoo:)
14:37:36 <spotz> Any reply?
14:37:42 <fungi> i don't think i got a reply though, or did you see a reply i missed? if not i can ping
14:38:17 <spotz> I didn't realize I was CC'ed let me look.
14:38:23 <fungi> yeah, i cc'd you
14:38:30 <fungi> sent on december 13
14:39:01 <fungi> Subject: Guidance on 2023 updates for Diversity Survey
14:39:06 <spotz> No reply
14:39:18 <fungi> aprice: did you get the e-mail i sent on december 13, guidance for updating the diversity survey for 2023?
14:39:23 <spotz> It was right before most folks wen out on PTO
14:39:29 <fungi> yeah, i figured
14:39:45 <fungi> didn't see much point in hounding anyone for answers until now anyway ;)
14:40:13 <fungi> i can follow up with her this week to see if she's had a chance to read it or whether it needs re-sending
14:40:25 <spotz> Yeah. And I think we should include ildikov more in this to help get all the projects participating
14:40:36 <fungi> agreed
14:41:14 <ildikov> I’m around, but need to read back to respond properly :)
14:41:17 <spotz> With her now in PDT we might need to bump this meeting back but we'll see
14:41:23 <spotz> hehe
14:42:04 <spotz> We were just getting started on the topic. Diversity Summit for 2023 nd making it work for all the projects AND them participating
14:42:17 <fungi> if we want to push finalizing the survey changes to 2023, we could do a forum session to go through the current survey and proposed adjustments too
14:42:31 <ildikov> Haha, no need to move just because of me, but appreciate the thought!
14:42:33 <fungi> er, push finalizing the changes to q3 of 2023 i mean
14:43:14 <spotz> So make it a 2024 survey?
14:43:35 <fungi> well, that's the question. second half of 2023 anyway
14:43:50 <spotz> I'm not against it but we need to make sure it's not going to just be us in the session
14:44:11 <fungi> we could try to do it a lot sooner and then have a forum session about early responses i suppose, but that may be too early to have much feedback
14:45:09 <fungi> mainly just trying to work out whether it makes sense to incorporate a forum session about the diversity survey one way or the other. timing is sort of terrible for either approach
14:45:17 <ildikov> if we want a shorter timeline than asking for feedback sooner is better
14:45:34 <spotz> No I don't mind doing a final review in Vancouver and if not much changed from it even releasing it in Vancouver
14:45:59 <ildikov> the Forum session is not fully inclusive anyway, but would be a great way to speed things up
14:46:21 <spotz> We could definitely use some hype of it being mentioned during the Keynotes
14:46:54 <fungi> yeah, my take is that a forum session could get feedback from people we're generally unable to reach through mailing lists, but i don't know if that's really true
14:47:00 <ildikov> spotz: if we want to release it in Vancouver then we could use the event to give more visibility to the survey, but it would need to be finalized before the event for that
14:47:55 <ildikov> or just point to the effort and then release the new survey after the event to avoid it getting lost in all the other noise
14:48:29 <spotz> Yeah and that's the issue, we don't have much to change questionwise probably for OpenStack, we don't know if the other projects need specific questions added beyond what project are you submitting for
14:48:51 <fungi> right. even if we finalized the survey this month and started circulating it, i doubt we'd have enough responses to be able to draw conclusions in time to present mid-year. on the other hand, if we wait until then to get final feedback on the updates to the survey, that's a bigger delay than we really need
14:49:44 <spotz> Here's a thought. We have a working session to finalize the survey, and an announcement during the keynotes about the session and the 'expected' start date?
14:49:47 <fungi> and as ildikov points out, the third option is to finalize it by mid-year and plan to hype it at the event in order to hopefully drive more survey responses
14:50:05 <ildikov> fungi: do you expect significantly more participation in editing if we give it more time and make it a target for 2023 H2 or even 2024?
14:50:13 <fungi> ildikov: i don't really know
14:50:19 <fungi> that's part of the problem
14:50:51 <fungi> engagement is dismally low to nonexistent both in terms of helping us plan/produce the survey and in people taking the survey, historically
14:50:56 <ildikov> I understand, it's hard to gauge
14:51:48 <spotz> But if we want to expand beyond OpenStack which we really do need to we need some help from folks in the project. I'd settle for the Community Managers if we cant't get contributors
14:51:51 <fungi> even the monthly d&i wg meetings are usually just me and spotz unless we ping somebody during the meeting who happens to already be in here ;)
14:52:01 <ildikov> in that case, I would go with what spotz was suggesting as well, to hype up the survey at the event
14:52:10 <fungi> wfm
14:52:27 <ildikov> we can have an email campaign to the project MLs for input and review
14:52:49 <ildikov> and 2 working sessions for people who want to talk about it
14:54:29 <ildikov> I think the risk of not having enough participants even with the extended timeline is higher than not having a useful survey
14:55:18 <spotz> Ok I'll get a forum session in I'm not sure I can get 2 in, though if there was room we could add it. We also need to be weary of PTG conflicts
14:55:31 <ildikov> if we have a version we can hype up during the Summit that'll give us more eyes and if people are unhappy with the survey after all, then they might be more motivated at that time to chime in and provide feedback
14:56:06 <ildikov> spotz: oh, I meant two working sessions prior to the event to get the survey done by the Summit
14:56:24 <spotz> Ah:)
14:56:25 <ildikov> I might've misunderstood the working session's purpose
14:57:04 <spotz> Well the working session'forum' is to get folks in the room to discuss and finalize. It'd be really cool if it was about ready to release at the time
14:57:11 <ildikov> we could still have one Forum session for awareness and some rapid feedback
14:57:47 <spotz> Then we'd know we could say look out in your email boxes the first week of July for the Diversity Survey or some such during keynotes
14:57:47 <ildikov> If we could get it ready by the Summit that would be beneficial
14:58:01 <ildikov> easier to hype people into filling it out, IMHO
14:58:06 <spotz> Yeah
14:58:20 <spotz> I know my first User Survey I did in Barcelona for a t-shirt:)
14:58:35 <ildikov> haha, there you go :)
14:59:54 <fungi> yeah, so is it two ad hoc working sessions scheduled between now and the summit to get project feedback, with a goal of finalizing the survey in time to promote it at the summit? or forum sessions to finalize the survey at the summit?
15:00:01 <spotz> Ok so our plan is to get Ildiko and team's help to have 2-3 working meetings to get the survey done or almost done by summit, announce during keynotes, and maybe a final session in Forums or something and release shortly after summit?
15:00:26 <fungi> sounds good, we still have time to refine that plan too
15:00:55 <fungi> and i'll try to get feedback from aprice on the questions i sent last month
15:01:48 <spotz> I don't think it's a good idea to hand folks out a D&I survey submittal t-shirt if they did the survey there no matter what. But maybe we could give out some small D&I item at the check in?
15:03:33 <fungi> we'd need to decide what, and probably find a sponsor to provide them
15:04:56 <spotz> Ok nix that idea I'd rather get the lunch or speed emntoring sponsored
15:05:13 <fungi> yeah, prioritizing such things is tough
15:06:18 <fungi> if the summit organizers are planning to do a sticker sheet as general swag, we might inquire about getting something diversity-related included, assuming there's room and the design work could be finished soon enough
15:07:43 <spotz> Sounds good
15:09:03 <fungi> i've tacked that onto the summit recommendations list from last meeting so i'll include it in the message i send to erin
15:09:34 <spotz> Thanks!
15:09:48 <spotz> Anything else for the meeting? We' 10 minutes over
15:10:23 <fungi> i've got nothing else
15:11:20 <spotz> Ok ildikov can you check with your team about participating or finding folks in their projects? Then they can be invited to this meeting or if needed we find another day and time
15:11:56 <ildikov> spotz: will do!
15:12:13 <spotz> Great meeting! Thanks for coming!
15:12:16 <spotz> #endmeeting