14:03:59 <spotz[m]> #startmeeting diversity_wg
14:04:00 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Tue Oct 10 14:03:59 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04:00 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:04:00 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg'
14:04:09 <spotz[m]> #chair fungi
14:04:09 <opendevmeet> Current chairs: fungi spotz[m]
14:04:50 <spotz[m]> Ok we discussed yesterday just working on the wiki and website. At the PTG the topic I was going to bring up is the leadership shadowing
14:05:50 <spotz[m]> How did you want to go ahead with that here?
14:07:55 <fungi> oh, sure
14:08:28 <fungi> we could skim the wiki page and make some quick notes in the meeting log as to what needs updating with the content there
14:08:43 <fungi> in preparation for copying that content to a more permanent page on openinfra.dev
14:09:10 <fungi> so basically we only want content that is accurate and doesn't change often
14:09:50 <fungi> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity existing wiki page
14:10:13 <fungi> probably the charter can go straight over
14:10:50 <fungi> mailing list signup link that's there will end up being a redirect in a couple of days, so we should probably use the updated one
14:11:29 <fungi> mentioning meetings should probably become a link to https://meetings.opendev.org/#Diversity_Working_Group_Meeting
14:11:49 <fungi> that way if we change times or anything, we won't need to update the openinfra.dev page
14:13:34 <fungi> and of course add a prominent link to the diversity survey
14:14:20 <fungi> reviewing the charter text, it is slightly dated, for example "The working group will collaborate with the TC, User committee..."
14:14:22 <spotz[m]> Yeah to be honest that's the only place I ever update it, not sure how old the meeting time on the wiki is:)
14:14:49 <fungi> also "The programs recommended by this working group will apply to the Board, OpenStack Foundation, Technical Committee, PTLs, Developers and the entire OpenStack Community."
14:15:02 <spotz[m]> Do we want to do this with Info? Or just type it? I know I found a typo already:)
14:15:07 <fungi> is this charter a formal document that the board needs to approve changes to the wording of?
14:15:35 <fungi> i can review the meeting log after the fact and make updates to the wiki page in preparation, when we're ready for that to happen
14:16:18 <fungi> not sure #info tags for every little detail is warranted
14:16:25 <spotz[m]> I don't think so, we can definitely fix organizer and organiser just so they match:) But we do need to update with a note the foundation name change
14:16:58 <fungi> right, also updating for the wg's broader remit beyond just the openstack project
14:17:03 <spotz[m]> Other than the name change and note the charter is the same
14:17:25 <spotz[m]> Yeah good call hadn't gotten that far yet
14:17:58 <spotz[m]> Let me make a quick ether[ad that might be the best way
14:18:15 <fungi> oh, yep we can do it that way
14:19:08 <spotz[m]> https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diwgwikirevamp
14:19:46 <spotz[m]> I cut and pasted the whole page over:)
14:20:23 <fungi> that works
14:21:06 <spotz[m]> Only bad part is everything I'm changing is the same color as the cut and paste. I'm going to bold them so you can find them
14:21:34 <fungi> you can clear the authorship colors before you start editing
14:21:54 <fungi> or selectively clear the color on the parts you haven't edited
14:24:45 <fungi> i've cleaned up everything we noted besides the charter text
14:26:29 <fungi> and i added a section for the diversity survey but it needs a bit of prose, i just added the url so we don't forget what it is
14:27:47 <spotz[m]> I just worked on the charter give it a read
14:27:56 <fungi> thanks, reviewing
14:28:41 <fungi> do we need to say "the OpenStack(now Open Infrastructure) Foundation" or can it just be "Open Infrastructure Foundation" instead?
14:29:00 <fungi> the sentence is in present tense, so the past name is probably irrelevant
14:29:26 <spotz[m]> I didn't know if we wanted to keep the OpenStack for historical reasons
14:30:32 <fungi> my feeling is that we should adjust the charter to say what we think it should say, and then find out if the board needs to approve the update in which case we can make a redlined version showing what the edits were (easy to do from the diff in the wiki revision history)
14:31:15 <spotz[m]> It's alittle early to ping Julia to ask
14:32:44 <fungi> i wonder about "will apply to the Board, Open Infrastructure Foundation, Project Leadership, Developers, and all members of the OpenInfra Project Communities"
14:33:00 <fungi> in particular, "Open Infrastructure Foundation" already covers some of those
14:33:36 <fungi> like, if it applies to the foundation as a whole (that is, the entirety of the foundation's membership) then that includes the board of directors
14:33:37 <spotz[m]> It used to say technical committee and PTLs so tried to make it more general
14:33:49 <spotz[m]> Foundation being mentioned was there just OpenStack
14:35:59 <fungi> maybe something more like "will apply to the board of directors, foundation members, project leaders, contributors, and their associated communities"?
14:36:14 <spotz[m]> Oh much better!!!!
14:36:31 <fungi> could probably even drop the "will" as the recommended programs already do apply
14:36:48 <fungi> we could drop "will" from a lot of places to keep it in the present tense
14:37:07 <fungi> i think the original charter was written from the perspective of forming a not-yet-existent wg
14:37:30 <fungi> now that it exists, we do these things, we don't merely plan to do them in the future
14:38:46 <spotz[m]> Ok
14:42:00 <fungi> i did a pass over the middle two paragraphs to switch them to present tense
14:44:20 <fungi> my best guess is that, as this is a board chartered wg, the charter comes from the board and so they'll need to vote on the changes in wording for it, but maybe that can get on the agenda for the november meeting
14:44:25 <spotz[m]> Ok and I put in your rewording
14:47:55 <fungi> for the meeting, maybe we should generalize the prose there some more? problem with listing any details around scheduling in the content is that we need to update it in two places (and getting updates done to the foundation website will usually be slow and easily forgotten)
14:47:58 <spotz[m]> I think we did pretty good:)
14:48:02 <fungi> i agree!
14:52:19 <spotz[m]> Ok I added some stuff for the survey. I put in about the tools as I didn't want folks to think any issues were CoC type things
14:52:39 <spotz[m]> Or had to be CoC type things
14:56:01 <fungi> thanks!
14:57:39 <fungi> i've got to get ready to switch to a conference call, but this was an excellent use of our time, i think
14:58:07 <spotz[m]> I totally agree, enjoy your call I have an hour until my next meeting
14:58:18 <fungi> we need a followup task to check with our esteemed board chair on what process is needed around updating the charter with our proposed wording, i guess?
14:58:48 <spotz[m]> I can check with her within the hour:)
14:58:49 <fungi> (specifically whether it needs to be brought to the board for a vote)
14:58:53 <fungi> thanks!!!
14:59:00 <fungi> enjoy your meetingless hour
15:00:19 <spotz[m]> #endmeeting