15:03:56 <spotz[m]> #startmeeting diversity_wg
15:03:56 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Tue Jan 14 15:03:56 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03:56 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:03:56 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg'
15:04:04 <spotz[m]> #topic Roll Call
15:04:08 <fungi> ahoy!
15:04:24 <spotz[m]> #chair fungi ildiko
15:04:24 <opendevmeet> Warning: Nick not in channel: ildiko
15:04:24 <opendevmeet> Current chairs: fungi ildiko spotz[m]
15:04:28 <ildikov> hello!
15:05:01 <spotz[m]> #chair ildikov
15:05:01 <opendevmeet> Current chairs: fungi ildiko ildikov spotz[m]
15:05:18 <spotz[m]> Ok interesting it added my mistake and kept it:)
15:05:47 <ildikov> it happens :)
15:05:53 <spotz[m]> I put one topic on the agenda today as it's the new year kick off and that's what goals we have for this year
15:07:41 <ildikov> spotz[m]: are there any goals the group had for 2024 that are still outstanding?
15:08:12 <fungi> as a cheap option i linked to the action items list from oid-na and ptg
15:08:56 <spotz[m]> not in the doc anyways:) We were trying to promote the Survey to get usable data but we've had it out there for almost 2 years now or at least 18 months
15:09:15 <fungi> we had some survey updates we wanted, discussion about adding translations for some stuff, and additions to the landing page on the foundation site
15:09:34 <spotz[m]> It also looks like we were not asked for an annual report this past year
15:10:39 <ildikov> spotz[m]: we've been making some tweaks to the Annual Report, so it has a different format this time around, etc
15:10:41 <fungi> the annual report format was revised a bit for brevity this time around, it's possible we forgot about diversity-specific content
15:11:01 <ildikov> we'll see where it will evolve over time
15:11:51 <fungi> there's definitely content related to diversity, but not a dedicated section for it
15:12:04 <spotz[m]> It has gotten long in the past, just let me know if we need to put something together. I'm not sure if we're required as a Board WG, but I've never written one for Compensation just an email with our conclusion for the year
15:12:06 <ildikov> we could utilize Superuser for some D&I WG and survey content maybe?
15:12:22 <fungi> ah, no there is a specific sub-heading for d&i activities, and i wrote it
15:12:56 <fungi> or at least i wrote some of it, looks like others expanded on the seed content in put into the draft
15:12:56 <spotz[m]> I'm wondering if we sholdn't just forget the last version and tweak it if needed and reannounce it from scratch
15:13:48 <ildikov> spotz[m]: do you mean renouncing the survey?
15:14:05 <fungi> i mentioned the new diversity portal, the survey, our involvement at events...
15:14:36 <spotz[m]> Yeah just forget the current version which had less then 10 responses last I look and Announce a new one with fanfare!
15:14:46 <fungi> and diablo_rojo added some content about mentorship programs (outreachy, anitab, student internships...)
15:14:59 <spotz[m]> And please excuse all typos and bad grammar I haven't had coffee yet:)
15:16:13 <ildikov> spotz[m]: I'm bad with grammar in general :D
15:16:30 <spotz[m]> Speaking of mentorship, lets either turn the email list over to her to use or let's kill it. It's just spam at this point
15:16:42 <ildikov> doing another round of announcements is a good idea
15:16:45 <fungi> so anyway, looks like i was co-assigned the diversity section of the annual report but threw a lot of the content together myself since there was not much lead-up and we skipped a few meetings, failing to bring my draft up with the larger group is on me but hopefully what's in the report will be satisfactory (i don't think i left out anything major). sorry about that!
15:17:25 <ildikov> fungi: thanks for writing it up!
15:17:46 <fungi> and if what i'm hearing is accurate, we should expect the report to be published tomorrow
15:17:49 <spotz[m]> It's always been us writing it together so I'm good with that, just thoughht we were left out
15:18:19 <fungi> to be fair, i wrote all that before the holidays, so had already entirely forgotten i'd even done it
15:18:29 <spotz[m]> hehe
15:18:40 <fungi> gave those braincells a thorough chemical cleanse
15:20:04 <ildikov> haha, mines need some cleansing too... :)
15:21:20 <spotz[m]> I was so bored:) Especially as most upstream meetings were canceled too
15:21:55 <spotz[m]> If we forward the list to discuss will the spam still be caught or go through?
15:25:19 <fungi> it will get caught in moderation same as it ever did
15:25:40 <spotz[m]> Ok perfect
15:25:47 <fungi> oh, breaking news on the annual report, publication was just rescheduled for monday
15:26:27 <fungi> er, maybe that's just the newsletter that was rescheduled
15:26:40 <spotz[m]> Oh maybe for after the elections, it's hell week after all
15:28:07 <spotz[m]> Going back to the list from last year - I know we had some discussions in Suwon about translations, impact of possibly letting AI assist there. Did we ever get the software online?
15:28:15 <fungi> yeah, never mind, annual report is still scheduled for tomorrow, newsletter is just pushed out to monday
15:29:08 <fungi> i think the ai-assisted translation discussion was specific to the openstack i18n team migrating from zanata to weblate, and as far as i know they still haven't finished doing that
15:29:38 <fungi> if memory serves, ai-assist was an option in weblate
15:29:45 <fungi> s/was/is/
15:30:09 <spotz[m]> Yeah it was in relation to the patches kicking off translation then the i18n team verifying, but then would the AI get kicked off again,etc and loop
15:31:02 <spotz[m]> What other translations were you thinking?
15:31:55 <fungi> the stuff listed in the oid-na/ptg discussion action items
15:32:27 <fungi> "translations for superuser/newsletters" ... "translated versions of surveys and code of conduct"
15:32:33 <spotz[m]> ahh newsletters
15:33:56 <spotz[m]> Besides getting professional translators, would it be much different? Maybe Google translate vs weblate then asking the team to correct?
15:35:08 <fungi> i think first we needed to have a discussion with the stakeholders on staff/board about the challenges for different content (legal, financial, logistical, technical)
15:36:02 <spotz[m]> Legal might be a challenge for sure as that needs to be 100% correct
15:36:27 <fungi> yeah, depending on the document
15:36:49 <fungi> for example, translations of the coc have some possible legal implications, but translations of newsletters may not
15:37:54 <spotz[m]> Or the finances as numbers are numbers they don't get translated just the words around them
15:38:00 <fungi> as for using automated translation systems, it's worth discussing but my take is that if people wanted to read google-translated documents then they'd just stuff the url into google translate themselves, us publishing the result doesn't necessarily improve that experience
15:38:28 <fungi> also google translate probably has terms of service which prohibit using its output on another webpage
15:38:40 <ildikov> in many browsers translation is built-in by now
15:39:17 <fungi> right, essentially if our translated content is no better/more accurate than auto-translation plugins in people's browsers, it's likely a waste of time and energy
15:39:34 <ildikov> at least to English, I haven't tried other languages, but I'm sure it'll keep evolving
15:39:45 <ildikov> +1 to what fungi said
15:40:46 <spotz[m]> So here's a question, is there some way for us to trigger the browser to translate? I know sometimes I get prompted to on sites and others I don't
15:40:50 <fungi> i'm happy to defer to others on this point though, especially seeing as how i'm a native english speaker and our content is originally written in english, so i lack true perspective on how useful it is or isn't
15:42:19 <spotz[m]> Yeah me too, so maybe we do a test and see how bad it is:)
15:42:23 <fungi> i'm simply guessing that the people who are asking to have documents translated into their preferred language mean having it done by a competent human translator fluent in both the source and target languages, and that if they wanted to read machine-translated content they could already easily do so
15:43:50 <spotz[m]> Or maybe languages that don't have browser support
15:44:55 <fungi> though in those cases the lack of browser plugins for their language likely means there aren't great machine translation solutions for that language, so we'd still need a human taking care of that
15:45:45 <ildikov> I was in Japan last year and I used translation on local websites from Japanese to English
15:46:02 <spotz[m]> Yeah so budget question, and I think finance is meeting today. We'd need an estimate to ask
15:46:17 <spotz[m]> Yeah I'm using it for Brussels now:)
15:46:18 <ildikov> there was a button somewhere in the URL field to turn it on
15:49:07 <spotz[m]> Ok so not to go too far off topic, is getting a quote a foundation item?
15:50:04 <fungi> there is some time and expense involved in looking for and collecting price quotes, i think before they do that the problem needs to be scoped more clearly
15:50:26 <ildikov> +1
15:50:48 <fungi> basically we need to have some discussion about which of the various things listed make sense to try and get translations done for, and into which languages
15:51:12 <fungi> do we know which languages people want which documents translated into?
15:51:45 <fungi> who specificially is requesting we add the translations, maybe they have some ideas already?
15:52:28 <fungi> looks like it was alvaro who brought it up initially at oid-na
15:53:06 <fungi> he was initially talking about a translation he made of the coc into spanish, and wanted to talk about possibly getting it published somewhere official
15:53:37 <spotz[m]> I would think that should be easy enough to accomplish?
15:54:14 <fungi> the crux of the issue there was that in order to do a legal review the foundation needed to track down legal counsel who felt capable of reviewing documents in spanish
15:55:06 <fungi> so that's a specific request, i guess it's somewhere to start. finding and gettign quotes on legal document review from lawyers specializing in that
15:55:15 <spotz[m]> It's worth asking Chris to check at the firm?
15:56:06 <fungi> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-na discussion of publishing community-translated spanish coc
15:56:16 <fungi> for reference, since it was a few clicks away from the agenda
15:58:16 <spotz[m]> Thanks
15:59:02 <fungi> from that discussion it looks like alvaro had talked to aprice so she presumably has some context which would be the best place to start
15:59:19 <fungi> and it seemed like TheJulia had some memory of discussing that at the board level too
15:59:22 <spotz[m]> Ok 2 minutes left. I can follow up with Allison.
15:59:47 <fungi> thanks!
16:00:18 <spotz[m]> Ok let me end the meeting. Thank you both for attending
16:00:23 <spotz[m]> #endmeeting