15:03:56 #startmeeting diversity_wg 15:03:56 Meeting started Tue Jan 14 15:03:56 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:03:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:03:56 The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' 15:04:04 #topic Roll Call 15:04:08 ahoy! 15:04:24 #chair fungi ildiko 15:04:24 Warning: Nick not in channel: ildiko 15:04:24 Current chairs: fungi ildiko spotz[m] 15:04:28 hello! 15:05:01 #chair ildikov 15:05:01 Current chairs: fungi ildiko ildikov spotz[m] 15:05:18 Ok interesting it added my mistake and kept it:) 15:05:47 it happens :) 15:05:53 I put one topic on the agenda today as it's the new year kick off and that's what goals we have for this year 15:07:41 spotz[m]: are there any goals the group had for 2024 that are still outstanding? 15:08:12 as a cheap option i linked to the action items list from oid-na and ptg 15:08:56 not in the doc anyways:) We were trying to promote the Survey to get usable data but we've had it out there for almost 2 years now or at least 18 months 15:09:15 we had some survey updates we wanted, discussion about adding translations for some stuff, and additions to the landing page on the foundation site 15:09:34 It also looks like we were not asked for an annual report this past year 15:10:39 spotz[m]: we've been making some tweaks to the Annual Report, so it has a different format this time around, etc 15:10:41 the annual report format was revised a bit for brevity this time around, it's possible we forgot about diversity-specific content 15:11:01 we'll see where it will evolve over time 15:11:51 there's definitely content related to diversity, but not a dedicated section for it 15:12:04 It has gotten long in the past, just let me know if we need to put something together. I'm not sure if we're required as a Board WG, but I've never written one for Compensation just an email with our conclusion for the year 15:12:06 we could utilize Superuser for some D&I WG and survey content maybe? 15:12:22 ah, no there is a specific sub-heading for d&i activities, and i wrote it 15:12:56 or at least i wrote some of it, looks like others expanded on the seed content in put into the draft 15:12:56 I'm wondering if we sholdn't just forget the last version and tweak it if needed and reannounce it from scratch 15:13:48 spotz[m]: do you mean renouncing the survey? 15:14:05 i mentioned the new diversity portal, the survey, our involvement at events... 15:14:36 Yeah just forget the current version which had less then 10 responses last I look and Announce a new one with fanfare! 15:14:46 and diablo_rojo added some content about mentorship programs (outreachy, anitab, student internships...) 15:14:59 And please excuse all typos and bad grammar I haven't had coffee yet:) 15:16:13 spotz[m]: I'm bad with grammar in general :D 15:16:30 Speaking of mentorship, lets either turn the email list over to her to use or let's kill it. It's just spam at this point 15:16:42 doing another round of announcements is a good idea 15:16:45 so anyway, looks like i was co-assigned the diversity section of the annual report but threw a lot of the content together myself since there was not much lead-up and we skipped a few meetings, failing to bring my draft up with the larger group is on me but hopefully what's in the report will be satisfactory (i don't think i left out anything major). sorry about that! 15:17:25 fungi: thanks for writing it up! 15:17:46 and if what i'm hearing is accurate, we should expect the report to be published tomorrow 15:17:49 It's always been us writing it together so I'm good with that, just thoughht we were left out 15:18:19 to be fair, i wrote all that before the holidays, so had already entirely forgotten i'd even done it 15:18:29 hehe 15:18:40 gave those braincells a thorough chemical cleanse 15:20:04 haha, mines need some cleansing too... :) 15:21:20 I was so bored:) Especially as most upstream meetings were canceled too 15:21:55 If we forward the list to discuss will the spam still be caught or go through? 15:25:19 it will get caught in moderation same as it ever did 15:25:40 Ok perfect 15:25:47 oh, breaking news on the annual report, publication was just rescheduled for monday 15:26:27 er, maybe that's just the newsletter that was rescheduled 15:26:40 Oh maybe for after the elections, it's hell week after all 15:28:07 Going back to the list from last year - I know we had some discussions in Suwon about translations, impact of possibly letting AI assist there. Did we ever get the software online? 15:28:15 yeah, never mind, annual report is still scheduled for tomorrow, newsletter is just pushed out to monday 15:29:08 i think the ai-assisted translation discussion was specific to the openstack i18n team migrating from zanata to weblate, and as far as i know they still haven't finished doing that 15:29:38 if memory serves, ai-assist was an option in weblate 15:29:45 s/was/is/ 15:30:09 Yeah it was in relation to the patches kicking off translation then the i18n team verifying, but then would the AI get kicked off again,etc and loop 15:31:02 What other translations were you thinking? 15:31:55 the stuff listed in the oid-na/ptg discussion action items 15:32:27 "translations for superuser/newsletters" ... "translated versions of surveys and code of conduct" 15:32:33 ahh newsletters 15:33:56 Besides getting professional translators, would it be much different? Maybe Google translate vs weblate then asking the team to correct? 15:35:08 i think first we needed to have a discussion with the stakeholders on staff/board about the challenges for different content (legal, financial, logistical, technical) 15:36:02 Legal might be a challenge for sure as that needs to be 100% correct 15:36:27 yeah, depending on the document 15:36:49 for example, translations of the coc have some possible legal implications, but translations of newsletters may not 15:37:54 Or the finances as numbers are numbers they don't get translated just the words around them 15:38:00 as for using automated translation systems, it's worth discussing but my take is that if people wanted to read google-translated documents then they'd just stuff the url into google translate themselves, us publishing the result doesn't necessarily improve that experience 15:38:28 also google translate probably has terms of service which prohibit using its output on another webpage 15:38:40 in many browsers translation is built-in by now 15:39:17 right, essentially if our translated content is no better/more accurate than auto-translation plugins in people's browsers, it's likely a waste of time and energy 15:39:34 at least to English, I haven't tried other languages, but I'm sure it'll keep evolving 15:39:45 +1 to what fungi said 15:40:46 So here's a question, is there some way for us to trigger the browser to translate? I know sometimes I get prompted to on sites and others I don't 15:40:50 i'm happy to defer to others on this point though, especially seeing as how i'm a native english speaker and our content is originally written in english, so i lack true perspective on how useful it is or isn't 15:42:19 Yeah me too, so maybe we do a test and see how bad it is:) 15:42:23 i'm simply guessing that the people who are asking to have documents translated into their preferred language mean having it done by a competent human translator fluent in both the source and target languages, and that if they wanted to read machine-translated content they could already easily do so 15:43:50 Or maybe languages that don't have browser support 15:44:55 though in those cases the lack of browser plugins for their language likely means there aren't great machine translation solutions for that language, so we'd still need a human taking care of that 15:45:45 I was in Japan last year and I used translation on local websites from Japanese to English 15:46:02 Yeah so budget question, and I think finance is meeting today. We'd need an estimate to ask 15:46:17 Yeah I'm using it for Brussels now:) 15:46:18 there was a button somewhere in the URL field to turn it on 15:49:07 Ok so not to go too far off topic, is getting a quote a foundation item? 15:50:04 there is some time and expense involved in looking for and collecting price quotes, i think before they do that the problem needs to be scoped more clearly 15:50:26 +1 15:50:48 basically we need to have some discussion about which of the various things listed make sense to try and get translations done for, and into which languages 15:51:12 do we know which languages people want which documents translated into? 15:51:45 who specificially is requesting we add the translations, maybe they have some ideas already? 15:52:28 looks like it was alvaro who brought it up initially at oid-na 15:53:06 he was initially talking about a translation he made of the coc into spanish, and wanted to talk about possibly getting it published somewhere official 15:53:37 I would think that should be easy enough to accomplish? 15:54:14 the crux of the issue there was that in order to do a legal review the foundation needed to track down legal counsel who felt capable of reviewing documents in spanish 15:55:06 so that's a specific request, i guess it's somewhere to start. finding and gettign quotes on legal document review from lawyers specializing in that 15:55:15 It's worth asking Chris to check at the firm? 15:56:06 #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-na discussion of publishing community-translated spanish coc 15:56:16 for reference, since it was a few clicks away from the agenda 15:58:16 Thanks 15:59:02 from that discussion it looks like alvaro had talked to aprice so she presumably has some context which would be the best place to start 15:59:19 and it seemed like TheJulia had some memory of discussing that at the board level too 15:59:22 Ok 2 minutes left. I can follow up with Allison. 15:59:47 thanks! 16:00:18 Ok let me end the meeting. Thank you both for attending 16:00:23 #endmeeting