05:00:56 <kavit> #startmeeting Diversity Workgroup APAC Sept 10 2015 05:00:57 <fifieldt> yes please :) 05:00:58 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Sep 10 05:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kavit. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 05:00:59 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 05:01:01 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015' 05:01:04 <kavit> #chair rolandchan 05:01:05 <openstack> Current chairs: kavit rolandchan 05:01:22 <kavit> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.10 05:01:31 <kavit> Roll Call 05:01:37 <ozstacker> gday 05:01:37 <kavit> Kavit Munshi, Aptira 05:01:42 <rolandchan> Roland Chan, Aptira 05:01:45 <fifieldt> Tom Fifield, OpenStack Foundation 05:01:46 <ozstacker> Tristan Goode, Aptira 05:01:49 <annilai> Anni lai, Huawei 05:02:40 <kavit> a few people RSVPed I guess we can wait a few more minutes for people to join 05:03:48 <ozstacker> So my first proposal was that perhaps we should hold these meetings in one of the openstack meeting channels. 05:04:55 <kavit> ok 05:04:57 <fifieldt> one of the benefits of doing that would be that we could potentially pull in some of the bystanders in those channels 05:05:06 <ozstacker> yup 05:05:15 <fifieldt> #openstack-meeting has about 450 or so at the moment 05:05:16 <kavit> I think we should get some review done before the new proposals? 05:05:18 <rolandchan> Mmmm. Bystanders. 05:05:25 <fifieldt> :) 05:05:30 <ozstacker> It's like we're trying to be inclusive, but we've gone off and locked ourselves in a room 05:05:58 <rolandchan> an unlocked room with transparent walls, and a sign saying "Diversity, this way". 05:06:39 <rolandchan> I am wary of being with an avalanche of 2c pieces 05:06:56 <rolandchan> lets run the agenda, it's been 5 minutes. 05:06:58 <kavit> #topic Review Community Survey task 05:07:05 <kavit> rolandchan, updates on this? 05:07:27 <rolandchan> The survey questions is essentially complete, as far as the original scope is concerned. 05:07:39 <kavit> saw a flurry of activity on this on the mailing list last week 05:07:41 <rolandchan> I've had feedback on the mailling list, most of which has been incorporated. 05:07:45 <kavit> cool 05:07:59 <kavit> so I guess we need to start discussing how we get this out 05:08:03 <fifieldt> I have one query related to this - is now an appropriate time, or is that later in the agenda? 05:08:05 <rolandchan> stuff I didn't action was requests that were no aligned to the charter. 05:08:05 <kavit> to the community 05:08:16 <kavit> now is appropriate fifieldt 05:08:32 <fifieldt> so, I will first admit I have only skimmed the recent ML flurry 05:09:06 <fifieldt> but I came away with the impression that we were mainly doing this 'bespoke' - my question is how much we looked at other similar surveys and what they were doing? 05:09:36 <rolandchan> similar surveys from other organisations trying to achieve similar goals? a lot 05:09:51 <rolandchan> I can claim, with a clear conscience, that little of the work I have done is original 05:10:01 <ozstacker> hehe 05:10:02 <kavit> we did get a lot of the initial numbers from other surveys in the industry 05:10:03 <kavit> hehe 05:10:17 <fifieldt> cool, cool 05:10:23 <fifieldt> I was specifically wondering about question text 05:10:40 <fifieldt> because I see something like "Do you identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or other minority sexuality?" and wonder - is that the "standard" way to ask it 05:10:57 <rolandchan> mostly yes. 05:11:10 <fifieldt> ok, cool 05:11:30 <fifieldt> was the difference to do with the "other" ? 05:11:37 <kavit> yeah, to be very honest some of the quetions and the feedback from the community was very new to me, especially around gender identity and sexuality 05:11:52 <rolandchan> I've seen no mention of "minority sexuality" in my reading on surveys. That's all 05:12:15 <annilai> Do we care about people's sexuality ? Some people like to keep it private 05:12:38 <rolandchan> They are free not to answer. We will also ensure there is no linkage between the response and the respondents identity. 05:12:46 <rolandchan> We do care about numbers, yes. 05:13:22 <kavit> no such thing as too much data, I guess 05:13:26 <fifieldt> rolandchan, I feel that "minority" is more leaning toward a negative/judgemental word so I would probably query the use of that if it was not in other surveys 05:14:07 <fifieldt> anyway, thank you for answering my question, I am happy we have been using other surveys 05:14:46 <rolandchan> the only outstanding question on the survey for me was whether we cared about language barriers. 05:14:57 <rolandchan> it came up on a couple of list postings, but it's not part of our charter. 05:15:13 <annilai> I think it's important. 05:15:26 <fifieldt> +1 I have even seen some debates on dev mailing lists about language barriers before 05:15:29 <rolandchan> it doesn't map neatly into geo, ethnicity or the other categories, although it has a large overlap 05:15:48 <annilai> We need to know if we need more translated documents 05:16:07 <kavit> I think even beyond the survey, I think it has a real effect on participation 05:16:17 <annilai> Agree ! 05:16:25 <fifieldt> I have a ton of anecdotal evidence for this 05:16:47 <fifieldt> it would be nice to get numbers, if possible 05:16:48 <rolandchan> OK cool. Second part of the question: do we ask 1) about language background 2) about whether english only is a problem 3) both? 05:17:10 <kavit> this will let us know how many people are with us inspite of having a language issue and then we can make an educated guess on how many people we are not able to connect with 05:18:00 <rolandchan> I think we have room in the survey to ask both questions. 05:18:00 <kavit> I'd sa both but I dont know if we run the risk of making the survey too long? 05:18:11 <kavit> +1 for both 05:18:29 <annilai> English skill: elementary, conversational, fluent 05:18:51 <kavit> #action rolandchan add both questions discussed around language to survey 05:19:00 <rolandchan> 13 questions if we do both "what is your first language" and "has english-only been a problem" 05:19:05 <rolandchan> ok cool. I will update. 05:19:11 <fifieldt> First language doesn't always work 05:19:21 <fifieldt> I think we should be looking up how to ask this properly 05:19:27 <rolandchan> sure. I'll look around. 05:20:02 <kavit> maybe we could ask if there is a lingua franca they are more comfortable with? 05:20:17 <rolandchan> Um. 05:20:38 <rolandchan> I'd rather establish: what their origin is, and whether they have a problem 05:20:49 <rolandchan> solutions are something we look at once we have data. 05:20:52 <kavit> OK 05:21:22 <kavit> I have added the language task to the etherpad and assigned it you rolandchan 05:21:27 <fifieldt> are you considering translating the survey at all? 05:21:30 <annilai> We don't really care about their first language but we do care about their English proficiency . and, what language besides English should be incorporated into OpenStack documentation and training 05:21:52 <rolandchan> transalation. Excellent idea. I'll see if surveymonkey can do that. 05:22:12 <annilai> How many languages ? 05:22:14 <rolandchan> #action rolandchan to investigate translation options. 05:22:29 <rolandchan> How many do we have? :) 05:22:39 <rolandchan> I've started talking to lsell about distribution. It would be good for the Foundation to kick in a small incentive to eliminate self selection bias, but it would be unbudgeted, so setting my expectations accordingly. 05:22:46 <fifieldt> we have about 8-10 reasonably functional translation teams 05:23:16 <rolandchan> the only blocker here is time. We need to execute the survey and perform the analysis before the summit. 05:23:57 <rolandchan> I will do what I can in parallel to getting the survey executed. 05:24:11 <fifieldt> indeed 05:24:19 <kavit> so that brings me to my next item 05:24:45 <kavit> I propose we ask the Ambassadors to help us reach users groups to get participants for the survey 05:25:09 <kavit> I think there is a large overlap between the foundation members and user group members 05:25:12 <rolandchan> I was intending to randomly sample the foundation membership 05:25:35 <fifieldt> do you think we'll get enough numbers that way? 05:25:51 <annilai> I think in general people in tech can read in English .. speaking is a bigger challenge. I think if we don't have time, we can skip translation of the survey 05:26:09 <fifieldt> when we email all of the 30k foundation members to ask them to fill out the user survey, we only get something like 1k (includes other channels) 05:26:24 <kavit> rolandchan, were you going to ask the foundation to email the members with the link to the survey? 05:26:58 <rolandchan> I'm not across the exact process, but I was planning to get a random sampling of the membership and use that to drive a surveymonkey mailout 05:27:24 <fifieldt> I guess what I'm saying is: expect a response rate of <3% from your sample 05:27:28 <rolandchan> then let that bake for a week or so, and do a second set if the response rate was insufficient. 05:27:39 <rolandchan> That's why I want an incentive. 05:28:07 <rolandchan> The question is: will the Foundation pay $20K for better data? 05:28:08 <annilai> An OpenStack t-shirt for completing the survey 05:28:10 <fifieldt> the user survey has had swag incentive before :) I think that got response rates up to double digit numbers 05:28:12 <kavit> hrm credit at the openstack store? 05:28:48 <rolandchan> I was thinking something fungible. 05:28:55 <rolandchan> Actual User Value. 05:29:09 <kavit> money? 05:29:09 <annilai> Better - OpenStack diversity t-shirt ! 05:29:18 <kavit> bitcoin! 05:29:42 <rolandchan> So, assuming we can get a 10% response rate, I'll need a 10K sample. 05:29:57 <fifieldt> so, we're expecting a problem with response rates, but instead of emailing everyone, we're choosing a smaller sample size? 05:30:01 <rolandchan> without incentive, I'll need to do a full membership mailout 05:30:04 <ozstacker> Foundation has all that cash that was reserved for tax to spend now! 05:30:24 <ozstacker> 501c6 FTW! 05:30:59 <kavit> so what is the deadline we want to hit for the survey to go out? 05:31:07 * fifieldt wonders if he has other data on response rates from foundation mailouts 05:31:09 <kavit> simmit in under 8 weeks 05:31:15 <rolandchan> I'd say I have about 3 weeks. 05:31:24 <rolandchan> probably 2, actually. 05:32:27 <fifieldt> just to let you know, I think user survey marketing will ramp up in a big way on Sep 14/15 05:32:33 <fifieldt> or so 05:32:36 <rolandchan> excellent. 05:32:39 <fifieldt> might want to coordinate with Lauren 05:32:49 <rolandchan> yep. have reached out to her. 05:32:51 <kavit> OK so we need to engage someone from the foundation to get this out ASAP 05:32:52 <fifieldt> don't want confusion, cool 05:33:16 <fifieldt> user survey will finish on sep 25th 05:33:26 <fifieldt> so maybe the diversity survey marketing kicks off after that 05:33:28 <fifieldt> *shrug* 05:33:32 <fifieldt> Lauren will know what to do :) 05:33:52 <rolandchan> That timing is not so bad. I will report back! 05:33:52 <kavit> cool 05:34:13 <kavit> next topic? 05:34:22 <rolandchan> pls 05:34:36 <kavit> #topic Geo Diversity Update 05:35:00 <kavit> We have reached out to the Gold members and Ambassadors to encourage more people to join these meetings 05:35:27 <rolandchan> And Tom and Anni joined. Winning! 05:35:32 <kavit> we are seeing good numbers in the US/Europe meetings 05:35:41 <kavit> I guess we need more people from APAC 05:35:48 <annilai> yes! 05:36:02 <annilai> Africa ? Latin America ? 05:36:04 <kavit> what can we do to encourage this? 05:36:52 <kavit> I think we can use the user groups portal to find the active groups in these areas 05:36:57 <kavit> and approach people 05:37:00 <fifieldt> indeed 05:37:35 <annilai> announce diversity WG at all the meetups, regional events .. 05:37:48 <kavit> I think once we have the user data we can also use that to get people from these areas become more invested 05:38:18 <rolandchan> There's a published schedule of regional meetups etc isn't there? 05:38:23 <kavit> yes 05:38:48 <fifieldt> http://openstack.org/events sucks in the data from groups.openstack.org 05:38:50 <annilai> do we have a mission statement for this diversity WG ? 05:38:56 <rolandchan> we have a charter. 05:39:04 <kavit> although not all the groups are diligent in publishing meetups in advance 05:39:22 <kavit> yes we do, it a pretty nifty charter, if I do say so myself 05:39:27 <rolandchan> annilai: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity 05:39:32 <annilai> thanks ! 05:40:18 <annilai> is there a diversity session or infomercial at the Tokyo summit? 05:40:28 <kavit> yeah there is a diversity session 05:40:39 <kavit> Imad, Egle and I are leading it 05:42:04 <annilai> maybe we can do an infomercial and host a party at the summit to attract more folks to join the WG 05:42:09 <rolandchan> Looks like some good meetups to hit with the diversity message: Brasil, Benelux, China and a bunch of things in the US. 05:43:05 <kavit> #task kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG 05:43:35 <rolandchan> #action kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG 05:43:42 <rolandchan> is #task a thing? 05:43:46 <kavit> dunno 05:44:05 <rolandchan> #whee! 05:44:06 <fifieldt> http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference 05:44:14 <fifieldt> I think it's #action 05:44:18 <kavit> yeah 05:45:06 <kavit> annilai, how do we get $ for party etc 05:45:12 <kavit> we ask sponsors? 05:45:20 <annilai> Sponsor or Foundaton 05:45:46 <kavit> you want to work on that anni? 05:46:14 <annilai> Sure, should I talk to Lauren and seek her advice? 05:46:18 <kavit> yeah 05:46:30 <annilai> Ok, I will take this action 05:46:51 <kavit> #action annilai to investigate promoting diversity WG & seek advice from lsell 05:47:26 <kavit> OK next topic? 05:47:34 <rolandchan> yup 05:48:01 <kavit> #topic Data Analysis & Code of Conduct Review 05:48:10 <kavit> anyone from those teams here? 05:48:24 <rolandchan> don't think so 05:48:41 <kavit> ok I guess we will look at the minutes from the US time meeting 05:48:41 <kavit> OK 05:48:47 <kavit> time for new proposals 05:48:54 <rolandchan> just a sec 05:49:01 <kavit> k 05:49:13 <rolandchan> the data analysis needs to be complete at pretty much the same time as the survey data arrives. 05:49:38 <rolandchan> so, I'm guessing 2nd week of October at the very latest. 05:50:14 <rolandchan> #action amanadap to confirm schedule for data analysis 05:50:31 <rolandchan> sorry to hand out actions to people who aren't here. 05:50:47 <rolandchan> ok. I'm done 05:51:14 <kavit> cool 05:51:18 <kavit> new topics 05:52:07 <kavit> #topic new proposals and items to be tabled 05:54:56 <kavit> OK 05:55:10 <kavit> I guess if there is nothing else we can end this meeting 05:55:22 <rolandchan> okeydoke 05:55:25 <annilai> Bye! 05:55:28 <kavit> #endmeeting