05:00:56 #startmeeting Diversity Workgroup APAC Sept 10 2015 05:00:57 yes please :) 05:00:58 Meeting started Thu Sep 10 05:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kavit. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 05:00:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 05:01:01 The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_workgroup_apac_sept_10_2015' 05:01:04 #chair rolandchan 05:01:05 Current chairs: kavit rolandchan 05:01:22 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OpenStackDiversity.10 05:01:31 Roll Call 05:01:37 gday 05:01:37 Kavit Munshi, Aptira 05:01:42 Roland Chan, Aptira 05:01:45 Tom Fifield, OpenStack Foundation 05:01:46 Tristan Goode, Aptira 05:01:49 Anni lai, Huawei 05:02:40 a few people RSVPed I guess we can wait a few more minutes for people to join 05:03:48 So my first proposal was that perhaps we should hold these meetings in one of the openstack meeting channels. 05:04:55 ok 05:04:57 one of the benefits of doing that would be that we could potentially pull in some of the bystanders in those channels 05:05:06 yup 05:05:15 #openstack-meeting has about 450 or so at the moment 05:05:16 I think we should get some review done before the new proposals? 05:05:18 Mmmm. Bystanders. 05:05:25 :) 05:05:30 It's like we're trying to be inclusive, but we've gone off and locked ourselves in a room 05:05:58 an unlocked room with transparent walls, and a sign saying "Diversity, this way". 05:06:39 I am wary of being with an avalanche of 2c pieces 05:06:56 lets run the agenda, it's been 5 minutes. 05:06:58 #topic Review Community Survey task 05:07:05 rolandchan, updates on this? 05:07:27 The survey questions is essentially complete, as far as the original scope is concerned. 05:07:39 saw a flurry of activity on this on the mailing list last week 05:07:41 I've had feedback on the mailling list, most of which has been incorporated. 05:07:45 cool 05:07:59 so I guess we need to start discussing how we get this out 05:08:03 I have one query related to this - is now an appropriate time, or is that later in the agenda? 05:08:05 stuff I didn't action was requests that were no aligned to the charter. 05:08:05 to the community 05:08:16 now is appropriate fifieldt 05:08:32 so, I will first admit I have only skimmed the recent ML flurry 05:09:06 but I came away with the impression that we were mainly doing this 'bespoke' - my question is how much we looked at other similar surveys and what they were doing? 05:09:36 similar surveys from other organisations trying to achieve similar goals? a lot 05:09:51 I can claim, with a clear conscience, that little of the work I have done is original 05:10:01 hehe 05:10:02 we did get a lot of the initial numbers from other surveys in the industry 05:10:03 hehe 05:10:17 cool, cool 05:10:23 I was specifically wondering about question text 05:10:40 because I see something like "Do you identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or other minority sexuality?" and wonder - is that the "standard" way to ask it 05:10:57 mostly yes. 05:11:10 ok, cool 05:11:30 was the difference to do with the "other" ? 05:11:37 yeah, to be very honest some of the quetions and the feedback from the community was very new to me, especially around gender identity and sexuality 05:11:52 I've seen no mention of "minority sexuality" in my reading on surveys. That's all 05:12:15 Do we care about people's sexuality ? Some people like to keep it private 05:12:38 They are free not to answer. We will also ensure there is no linkage between the response and the respondents identity. 05:12:46 We do care about numbers, yes. 05:13:22 no such thing as too much data, I guess 05:13:26 rolandchan, I feel that "minority" is more leaning toward a negative/judgemental word so I would probably query the use of that if it was not in other surveys 05:14:07 anyway, thank you for answering my question, I am happy we have been using other surveys 05:14:46 the only outstanding question on the survey for me was whether we cared about language barriers. 05:14:57 it came up on a couple of list postings, but it's not part of our charter. 05:15:13 I think it's important. 05:15:26 +1 I have even seen some debates on dev mailing lists about language barriers before 05:15:29 it doesn't map neatly into geo, ethnicity or the other categories, although it has a large overlap 05:15:48 We need to know if we need more translated documents 05:16:07 I think even beyond the survey, I think it has a real effect on participation 05:16:17 Agree ! 05:16:25 I have a ton of anecdotal evidence for this 05:16:47 it would be nice to get numbers, if possible 05:16:48 OK cool. Second part of the question: do we ask 1) about language background 2) about whether english only is a problem 3) both? 05:17:10 this will let us know how many people are with us inspite of having a language issue and then we can make an educated guess on how many people we are not able to connect with 05:18:00 I think we have room in the survey to ask both questions. 05:18:00 I'd sa both but I dont know if we run the risk of making the survey too long? 05:18:11 +1 for both 05:18:29 English skill: elementary, conversational, fluent 05:18:51 #action rolandchan add both questions discussed around language to survey 05:19:00 13 questions if we do both "what is your first language" and "has english-only been a problem" 05:19:05 ok cool. I will update. 05:19:11 First language doesn't always work 05:19:21 I think we should be looking up how to ask this properly 05:19:27 sure. I'll look around. 05:20:02 maybe we could ask if there is a lingua franca they are more comfortable with? 05:20:17 Um. 05:20:38 I'd rather establish: what their origin is, and whether they have a problem 05:20:49 solutions are something we look at once we have data. 05:20:52 OK 05:21:22 I have added the language task to the etherpad and assigned it you rolandchan 05:21:27 are you considering translating the survey at all? 05:21:30 We don't really care about their first language but we do care about their English proficiency . and, what language besides English should be incorporated into OpenStack documentation and training 05:21:52 transalation. Excellent idea. I'll see if surveymonkey can do that. 05:22:12 How many languages ? 05:22:14 #action rolandchan to investigate translation options. 05:22:29 How many do we have? :) 05:22:39 I've started talking to lsell about distribution. It would be good for the Foundation to kick in a small incentive to eliminate self selection bias, but it would be unbudgeted, so setting my expectations accordingly. 05:22:46 we have about 8-10 reasonably functional translation teams 05:23:16 the only blocker here is time. We need to execute the survey and perform the analysis before the summit. 05:23:57 I will do what I can in parallel to getting the survey executed. 05:24:11 indeed 05:24:19 so that brings me to my next item 05:24:45 I propose we ask the Ambassadors to help us reach users groups to get participants for the survey 05:25:09 I think there is a large overlap between the foundation members and user group members 05:25:12 I was intending to randomly sample the foundation membership 05:25:35 do you think we'll get enough numbers that way? 05:25:51 I think in general people in tech can read in English .. speaking is a bigger challenge. I think if we don't have time, we can skip translation of the survey 05:26:09 when we email all of the 30k foundation members to ask them to fill out the user survey, we only get something like 1k (includes other channels) 05:26:24 rolandchan, were you going to ask the foundation to email the members with the link to the survey? 05:26:58 I'm not across the exact process, but I was planning to get a random sampling of the membership and use that to drive a surveymonkey mailout 05:27:24 I guess what I'm saying is: expect a response rate of <3% from your sample 05:27:28 then let that bake for a week or so, and do a second set if the response rate was insufficient. 05:27:39 That's why I want an incentive. 05:28:07 The question is: will the Foundation pay $20K for better data? 05:28:08 An OpenStack t-shirt for completing the survey 05:28:10 the user survey has had swag incentive before :) I think that got response rates up to double digit numbers 05:28:12 hrm credit at the openstack store? 05:28:48 I was thinking something fungible. 05:28:55 Actual User Value. 05:29:09 money? 05:29:09 Better - OpenStack diversity t-shirt ! 05:29:18 bitcoin! 05:29:42 So, assuming we can get a 10% response rate, I'll need a 10K sample. 05:29:57 so, we're expecting a problem with response rates, but instead of emailing everyone, we're choosing a smaller sample size? 05:30:01 without incentive, I'll need to do a full membership mailout 05:30:04 Foundation has all that cash that was reserved for tax to spend now! 05:30:24 501c6 FTW! 05:30:59 so what is the deadline we want to hit for the survey to go out? 05:31:07 * fifieldt wonders if he has other data on response rates from foundation mailouts 05:31:09 simmit in under 8 weeks 05:31:15 I'd say I have about 3 weeks. 05:31:24 probably 2, actually. 05:32:27 just to let you know, I think user survey marketing will ramp up in a big way on Sep 14/15 05:32:33 or so 05:32:36 excellent. 05:32:39 might want to coordinate with Lauren 05:32:49 yep. have reached out to her. 05:32:51 OK so we need to engage someone from the foundation to get this out ASAP 05:32:52 don't want confusion, cool 05:33:16 user survey will finish on sep 25th 05:33:26 so maybe the diversity survey marketing kicks off after that 05:33:28 *shrug* 05:33:32 Lauren will know what to do :) 05:33:52 That timing is not so bad. I will report back! 05:33:52 cool 05:34:13 next topic? 05:34:22 pls 05:34:36 #topic Geo Diversity Update 05:35:00 We have reached out to the Gold members and Ambassadors to encourage more people to join these meetings 05:35:27 And Tom and Anni joined. Winning! 05:35:32 we are seeing good numbers in the US/Europe meetings 05:35:41 I guess we need more people from APAC 05:35:48 yes! 05:36:02 Africa ? Latin America ? 05:36:04 what can we do to encourage this? 05:36:52 I think we can use the user groups portal to find the active groups in these areas 05:36:57 and approach people 05:37:00 indeed 05:37:35 announce diversity WG at all the meetups, regional events .. 05:37:48 I think once we have the user data we can also use that to get people from these areas become more invested 05:38:18 There's a published schedule of regional meetups etc isn't there? 05:38:23 yes 05:38:48 http://openstack.org/events sucks in the data from groups.openstack.org 05:38:50 do we have a mission statement for this diversity WG ? 05:38:56 we have a charter. 05:39:04 although not all the groups are diligent in publishing meetups in advance 05:39:22 yes we do, it a pretty nifty charter, if I do say so myself 05:39:27 annilai: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Diversity 05:39:32 thanks ! 05:40:18 is there a diversity session or infomercial at the Tokyo summit? 05:40:28 yeah there is a diversity session 05:40:39 Imad, Egle and I are leading it 05:42:04 maybe we can do an infomercial and host a party at the summit to attract more folks to join the WG 05:42:09 Looks like some good meetups to hit with the diversity message: Brasil, Benelux, China and a bunch of things in the US. 05:43:05 #task kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG 05:43:35 #action kavit to approach user groups with upcoming events to announce the diversity WG 05:43:42 is #task a thing? 05:43:46 dunno 05:44:05 #whee! 05:44:06 http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#user-reference 05:44:14 I think it's #action 05:44:18 yeah 05:45:06 annilai, how do we get $ for party etc 05:45:12 we ask sponsors? 05:45:20 Sponsor or Foundaton 05:45:46 you want to work on that anni? 05:46:14 Sure, should I talk to Lauren and seek her advice? 05:46:18 yeah 05:46:30 Ok, I will take this action 05:46:51 #action annilai to investigate promoting diversity WG & seek advice from lsell 05:47:26 OK next topic? 05:47:34 yup 05:48:01 #topic Data Analysis & Code of Conduct Review 05:48:10 anyone from those teams here? 05:48:24 don't think so 05:48:41 ok I guess we will look at the minutes from the US time meeting 05:48:41 OK 05:48:47 time for new proposals 05:48:54 just a sec 05:49:01 k 05:49:13 the data analysis needs to be complete at pretty much the same time as the survey data arrives. 05:49:38 so, I'm guessing 2nd week of October at the very latest. 05:50:14 #action amanadap to confirm schedule for data analysis 05:50:31 sorry to hand out actions to people who aren't here. 05:50:47 ok. I'm done 05:51:14 cool 05:51:18 new topics 05:52:07 #topic new proposals and items to be tabled 05:54:56 OK 05:55:10 I guess if there is nothing else we can end this meeting 05:55:22 okeydoke 05:55:25 Bye! 05:55:28 #endmeeting