14:00:49 <annegentle> #startmeeting docteam
14:00:50 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Apr  9 14:00:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:51 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:53 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
14:01:05 <annegentle> Here's the agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting
14:01:12 <annegentle> it's fine to add things as you think of them!
14:01:16 <Sam-I-Am> hello
14:01:23 <annegentle> hey Sam-I-Am
14:01:26 <annegentle> So let's see
14:01:32 <annegentle> #topic Action items from last meeting
14:02:04 <annegentle> I think we asked for help on some install testing
14:02:14 <Sam-I-Am> install early, install often
14:02:15 <annegentle> And then Nick was going to propse a summit topic
14:02:22 <Sam-I-Am> we're making significant progress on the wiki
14:02:33 <Sam-I-Am> probably well ahead of where havana was
14:02:39 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes impressive! For sure.
14:02:48 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: we didn't have Neutron by this point last release
14:02:58 <annegentle> There are still just two proposals for docs slots
14:03:02 <annegentle> I think we need one more about doc process
14:03:22 <annegentle> that's all for actions
14:03:22 <Sam-I-Am> i know of yours and one from nick, are those the two?
14:03:47 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: for actions there was just nick's
14:04:10 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i mean... the doc proposals
14:04:16 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: oh yes
14:04:20 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: just two from me
14:04:27 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: do you want to propose one for doc process?
14:04:28 <Sam-I-Am> oh... hmm
14:04:32 <Sam-I-Am> i thought i saw one from nick...
14:04:52 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am to add the image elements he is using to a wiki
14:04:52 <annegentle> page, as the beginnings of an image library
14:04:52 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/77
14:04:54 <annegentle> Ah one other action,
14:04:56 <Sam-I-Am> oh, thats a cross-topic one
14:05:04 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: oh yes cross project
14:05:16 <Sam-I-Am> docs process... as in the Magic that goes on or... what?
14:05:34 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: I think they'll consolidate one doc talk for cross project
14:05:40 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i'll be adding image conventions once icehouse is done
14:05:50 <Sam-I-Am> too. many. projects.
14:05:52 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: you were mentioning whether a bug has to be logged for a doc patch to be accepted
14:05:54 <annegentle> that sort of thing
14:06:09 <Sam-I-Am> ahhh yeah... not sure there's much of a talk out of that
14:06:24 <Sam-I-Am> i was also thinking about how developers get docs to us
14:06:28 <Sam-I-Am> per our little chat yesterday
14:06:41 <Sam-I-Am> would that apply here?
14:06:48 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yep exactly
14:06:54 <Sam-I-Am> we would need doc liasons from projects to attend
14:07:18 <annegentle> yes
14:07:33 <annegentle> We can make that happen, that's a good idea actually
14:07:41 <Sam-I-Am> ok, lets discuss this later to see if we can come up with something solid
14:07:48 <annegentle> Ok we can talk more about the summit in open discussion, let's tear through the topics
14:07:51 <annegentle> #topic Final run of configuration scripts to land before April 17
14:08:05 <annegentle> I know Gauvain signed up for it, just letting everyone know here.
14:08:15 <annegentle> Also so reviewers are ready for it
14:08:21 <Sam-I-Am> configuration scripts?
14:08:38 <annegentle> automated scraping of configuration options through scripts in openstack-doc toos
14:08:52 <annegentle> tools
14:08:59 <Sam-I-Am> ahhh
14:09:33 <annegentle> yep
14:09:39 <annegentle> now for your fav topic!
14:09:43 <annegentle> #topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse in progress
14:09:47 <Sam-I-Am> lol
14:09:58 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: can you give us a summary of what neutron options are done?
14:10:21 <Sam-I-Am> neutron ML2 is done... controller, network, compute nodes
14:10:23 <Sam-I-Am> also tested
14:10:36 <annegentle> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IcehouseDocTesting
14:10:39 <Sam-I-Am> i need to update the sections to say "use ml2" and perhaps move the OVS section to an appendic
14:11:02 <Sam-I-Am> the OVS sections need a face lift at some point
14:11:11 <Sam-I-Am> probably following the same structure used in the ML2 sections
14:11:21 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: do you have any knowledge of SUSE install guide testing?
14:11:32 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: I'll have to do it asap ;)
14:11:35 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yep that all sounds good
14:11:40 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: awesome thanks
14:11:40 <Sam-I-Am> so far on most common OSs, we can install enough stuff with neutron to launch an instance... and it works!
14:11:44 <Ajaeger1> and then recruit some help again :)
14:11:49 <annegentle> Yep!
14:11:57 <Sam-I-Am> the 'launch an instance' restructure patch was approved last night
14:12:00 <Sam-I-Am> thanks aj
14:12:06 <annegentle> I wish I had a better sense of the Trove install, I did hear from Laurel via email that she's working on it
14:12:10 <Sam-I-Am> which means the install guide 'flows' better
14:12:11 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: ok good
14:12:27 <Sam-I-Am> now i'm working on a patch to 'launch an instance' to make it read better (including support for neutron systems)
14:12:28 <annegentle> I'm not sure the person I recruited to test ceilometer will get the testing done :)
14:12:46 <annegentle> I really like this table, btw
14:12:53 <Sam-I-Am> so... the bulk of the install guide update blueprint is done
14:12:59 <dianefleming> Sam-I-Am why do we have a repeat of "launch an instance" in the install guide?
14:13:03 <dianefleming> when it's in User Guide?
14:13:04 <Sam-I-Am> a few minor bugs here and there to clean up
14:13:33 <annegentle> dianefleming: because people want to accomplish "something"
14:13:36 <Sam-I-Am> dianefleming: we cover a very specific architecture(s) in the install guide. i would like to directly reference those things in launch an instance.
14:13:42 <annegentle> dianefleming: but I do think it could be xi:included
14:13:50 <Sam-I-Am> i may include it as "more info here"
14:13:51 <dianefleming> ok - yes
14:13:56 <dianefleming> it was confusing to me
14:14:06 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: do you think the user guide should then use the user guide instructions or vice versa?
14:14:10 <Sam-I-Am> i will be referencing the dashboard launch an instance in the user guide
14:14:19 <dianefleming> we have several variations of launch an instance - API quick start, User Guide, Install Guide
14:14:37 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i think the user guide is a more generic approach, whereas the install guide is sort of... canned?
14:14:46 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: ok
14:14:51 <dianefleming> canned?
14:14:57 <Sam-I-Am> for example, i want to explain how to add a floating IP to an instance
14:14:59 <annegentle> caned? :)
14:15:06 <dianefleming> that's in the User Guide
14:15:11 <Sam-I-Am> canned as in... specific.
14:15:15 <dianefleming> all that - keypairs, etc
14:15:17 <Sam-I-Am> dianefleming: for neutron?
14:15:33 <Sam-I-Am> using the 203.x.x.x example networks...
14:15:55 <dianefleming> no - and i'm okay with it, as long as all of our "launch an instance" scenarios use similar language, structure, etc - and perhaps reference each other
14:16:06 <dianefleming> so readers know about all the info available
14:16:10 <Sam-I-Am> i will be referencing the user guide stuff
14:16:14 <dianefleming> and don't get confused -
14:16:44 <Sam-I-Am> at some point it might make sense to reference the admin/user guides in other places in the install guide
14:16:51 <dianefleming> maybe you could add language to the install guide one to say, "this is specific to the scenarios described in this guide. For more information, see ..."
14:16:57 <annegentle> dianefleming: I like that idea
14:17:07 <Sam-I-Am> dianefleming: exactly!
14:17:13 <dianefleming> okay!
14:17:24 <annegentle> okay, cool
14:17:37 <annegentle> #topic O'Reilly Ops Guide status
14:17:38 <Sam-I-Am> i'm trying to keep users in the install guide from becoming overwhelmed with extra info... unless they want it, of course.
14:17:56 <annegentle> Just wanted to let everyone know it goes to print 4/18
14:18:02 <annegentle> Indexing is going on now
14:18:18 <annegentle> so I haven't had to do that really really hard-to-compare backpatch yet with all the index entries
14:18:23 <annegentle> but it's coming
14:18:46 <annegentle> I'm working on an "Icehouse Preview" appendix that fifieldt hates with great fervor
14:18:59 <annegentle> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86176/
14:19:02 <Sam-I-Am> o really?
14:19:05 <annegentle> but I'm not sure how to improve it
14:19:23 <annegentle> It pretty much would require having all the release notes done by day after tomorrow
14:19:33 <annegentle> which seems unlikely
14:19:46 <annegentle> I went through all 349 blueprints to gather which ones matter to ops
14:19:57 <annegentle> but even so it just shows the breakdown of our processes around docimpact
14:20:00 <Sam-I-Am> i have a time machine you can borrow
14:20:07 <annegentle> there are blueprints that merged without any docs or docimpact assessed
14:20:07 <annegentle> heh
14:21:06 <annegentle> one good outcome will be real-world examples of docimpact
14:21:33 <annegentle> Steve Gordon and Summer Long seem very aware of the gaps, now we just have to figure out how to bridge
14:21:34 <Ajaeger1> wow, going through all blueprints!
14:22:39 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: I'm not sure how to do that next deep dive though to explain what happened for each
14:22:41 <annegentle> or how to use each feature
14:22:41 <annegentle> and so on
14:22:41 <phil_h> makes my head hurt thinking about it
14:22:42 <annegentle> so the best I can think to do is write a report?
14:22:47 <Sam-I-Am> sounds fun
14:22:55 <annegentle> And not sure what to do with this preview?
14:22:56 <annegentle> really need ideas
14:23:31 <annegentle> please review for accuracy of claims too :)
14:23:59 <annegentle> ok next
14:23:59 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: I'll review and see whether there's something else to add.
14:24:07 <annegentle> #topic User survey doc question
14:24:16 <Sam-I-Am> there's a lot of things in such a small patch...
14:24:19 <annegentle> I sent a request to add three questions to the user survey, they added one, essay style rather than multiple choice.
14:24:33 <annegentle> fifieldt has said that he'll categorize the answers
14:24:37 <annegentle> So it is what it is
14:25:28 <annegentle> I'll admit I'm uncertain we'll get much actionable data from the user survey but small steps.
14:25:39 <annegentle> #topic Doc contribution survey
14:25:49 <annegentle> Please post this one everywhere you can!
14:26:01 <annegentle> #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/136-BssH-OxjVo8vNoOD-gW4x8fDFpvixbgCfeV1w_do/viewform
14:26:02 <annegentle> 21 responses so far
14:26:12 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: write a blog post for planet openstack
14:26:16 <annegentle> people cite lack of time and not having git/gerrit at the ready
14:26:19 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: oh good idea!
14:26:45 <Sam-I-Am> any other mailing lists it should go out on?
14:26:54 <annegentle> #action annegentle write blog post linking to OpenStack Documentation Contributions survey
14:28:17 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes I should send on G+, and to the mailing lists.
14:28:25 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: so many channels :)
14:28:35 <annegentle> It went out in the community newsletter
14:28:47 <annegentle> #topic Doc Tools news
14:28:52 <annegentle> Anything to report?
14:29:05 <Ajaeger1> some improvements for the autogeneration of config options
14:29:07 <annegentle> I know that the Database team wants to start using the json validation tool for the API docs
14:29:13 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: nice
14:29:27 <Ajaeger1> gpocentek and shaunm have been doing this
14:29:30 <annegentle> So Tim Simpson might be asking you questions Ajaeger1
14:29:38 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: sure, send him my way
14:29:53 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: do we need a release of openstack-doc-tools soon (or did 0.10.0 pick up their changes)?
14:30:18 <annegentle> I really do want to explore our options for fresher HTML output and navigation
14:30:19 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: no release needed, the work  for the autogeneration is done directly from git.
14:30:37 <annegentle> I'm not completely sure the best way to get a new design
14:30:42 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: cool
14:31:13 <annegentle> Okay I cheated and added a new topic
14:31:16 <annegentle> #topic Icehouse status
14:31:19 <Ajaeger1> ;)
14:31:24 <annegentle> I'm not sure we completely covered where the docs are for Icehouse :)
14:31:27 <annegentle> So let's do that.
14:31:35 <annegentle> Tom sent the bug report which is MUCH improved, thanks all for the hard work
14:31:42 <annegentle> #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/icehouse
14:32:09 <dianefleming> annegentle I will work on moving a bunch of the api-site nova v3 bugs to juno
14:32:11 <Ajaeger1> still a lot to do - we should consider doing another bug day
14:32:27 <annegentle> dianefleming: great thanks
14:32:46 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: they're really well sorted though, or accurately targeted I guess I mean...
14:33:21 <annegentle> the xenapi ones are never getting worked, that bumps the numbers up a bit.
14:33:50 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: hmm, i'm not assigned to the install guide updates bp?
14:34:10 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: I'll fix that!
14:34:30 <Sam-I-Am> thx
14:34:53 <annegentle> I confirmed at yesterday's project meeting that Juno is opened on every project's branch
14:35:28 <annegentle> so I noted we didn't get much dev docimpact help
14:35:42 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: a couple of the bugs wait for new releases of python-PROJECTclient packages - I'm only updating the cli guide once a project does a release
14:35:49 <annegentle> but a huge thanks to fifieldt for the bug triaging, tracking, categorizing
14:35:55 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: that makes sense
14:36:00 <Sam-I-Am> so many bugs...
14:36:20 <Ajaeger1> Sam-I-Am: Tom and myself got it down a bit already - still far too many...
14:36:51 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: yes thanks to you too -- but agreed, too many bugs
14:37:19 <Ajaeger1> Tom is the master of bugs - and he was "busy" sometimes, we really missed his expertise...
14:37:33 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: he's so darn fast
14:37:56 <annegentle> okay anything else on icehouse?
14:38:10 <annegentle> I'll take care of the final patch for the stable/icehouse branch candidate
14:38:19 <annegentle> (Unless someone else is really wanting to do that)
14:38:33 <Ajaeger1> how are we going to handle backports once icehouse has been released?
14:38:35 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: obviously we'll start 'backporting' stuff
14:38:48 <Ajaeger1> I don't want to be again Mr. backport ;)
14:38:51 <Sam-I-Am> which i need to learn how to do
14:38:57 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: okay :)
14:39:07 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: I have your handy dandy script now
14:39:08 <Sam-I-Am> what? i thought you were Andreas B. Jeager
14:39:15 <Sam-I-Am> the B means backport
14:39:23 <annegentle> hee
14:39:26 * Ajaeger1 hides now that his middle name is out ;)
14:39:27 <Sam-I-Am> i'll definitely need to learn for the install guide
14:39:44 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yeah we'll send that script around
14:39:46 <Ajaeger1> Sam-I-Am: It's easy to do, I'll send instructions to the list...
14:39:46 <Sam-I-Am> we still have plenty of non-critical fixups to do
14:39:55 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: give me an action item :)
14:40:14 <annegentle> #action Ajaeger1 to send backport script to openstack-docs mailing list
14:40:17 <Ajaeger1> The challenge is t obackport in the same order we did changes to master, otherwise we have lots of merge conflicts
14:40:32 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: yep, all about the order.
14:40:38 <annegentle> #topic Open discussion
14:40:42 <Ajaeger1> hope the install guide is in better state this time ;)
14:40:46 <annegentle> ok 20 minutes left, what didn't we cover?
14:40:51 <annegentle> Ajaeger1: you know it is! :)
14:41:37 <Ajaeger1> annegentle: yes, it is definitely! Thanks to some really great work by Sam-I-Am, gpocentek et al
14:42:24 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: seriously, great work. I hope you know the admiration you've garnered.
14:43:24 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: thanks. its been fun. ultimate goal - people get to launch an instance without being frustrated :P
14:43:31 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: which means more openstack users!
14:43:36 <chandan_kumar_> hello
14:43:39 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes! adoption!
14:43:41 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i still have scars from my month of installation woes :/
14:43:41 <chandan_kumar_> i think i am late
14:43:43 <phil_h> Wave haand in honor of Sam-I-Am
14:43:44 <annegentle> chandan_kumar_: hey!
14:44:14 <Sam-I-Am> phil_h: thanks for your testing
14:44:42 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: hopefully the juno guide will take less effort since we fully integrated neutron this time around
14:44:58 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: that would be great.
14:45:18 <Sam-I-Am> most of the BP was fixing the surrounding guide... the neutron ML2 sections were a small component in retrospect
14:45:27 <overlayer> Sam-I-Am, great news... back in October it was a real pain when I installed OpenStack (Havana) for the first time...
14:45:43 <Sam-I-Am> overlayer: thats when i started too!
14:45:54 <Sam-I-Am> plenty of 36 hour days with little to no progress and frustrating errors
14:45:58 <annegentle> I still think it's hard to install OpenStack manually :)
14:46:13 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: which reminds me... can we push for "catching" config file errors?
14:46:35 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: some of the services just start with missing critical keys and/or mis-typings... then Do Weird Stuff
14:46:43 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: there are ML posts about default configs
14:46:48 <Sam-I-Am> it would make sense if the devs could sanity check config files
14:46:54 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: so we can vote there
14:47:02 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: but yes that's a push we all need to do
14:47:12 <Sam-I-Am> default configs as in... example configs?
14:47:37 <phil_h> I put up a bug in neutron asking for a config check routine
14:47:51 <Sam-I-Am> i'm just thinking... someone mis-types "securitygroup" as "securitgroup" ... the service should barf with a config file error rather than starting anyway... or throwing some crazy traceback
14:47:58 <phil_h> we need one for all projects
14:48:19 <Sam-I-Am> that and... things put under the wrong [section]
14:48:22 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: oh I get it
14:48:28 <phil_h> my error was mechanism driver instead of mechanism_driver
14:48:34 <Sam-I-Am> we see plenty of bugs and issues in #openstack
14:48:39 <phil_h> caused very bad things to happen
14:48:50 <Sam-I-Am> seems it would save us a lot of bugs everywhere
14:48:58 <annegentle> phil_h: space?
14:49:03 <phil_h> yes
14:49:07 <annegentle> phil_h: woah
14:49:11 <phil_h> instead of _
14:49:25 <Sam-I-Am> exactly :P
14:49:33 <phil_h> everything started and tried to work with out an error
14:49:50 <Sam-I-Am> the mechanism_driver is a required config key too
14:49:50 <phil_h> until I tried to create a network
14:49:53 <annegentle> ok, so earlier error catching/throwing
14:50:03 <annegentle> confirmation a config file is valid
14:50:08 <Sam-I-Am> yes!
14:50:14 <Sam-I-Am> or valid in at least a basic sense
14:50:26 <Sam-I-Am> "are the required keys here?" "are they under the correct sections?"
14:50:38 <Sam-I-Am> in some cases, does the value make sense?
14:50:55 <annegentle> yes!
14:51:16 <annegentle> okay let's give over the meeting room and continue in #openstack-doc
14:51:16 <phil_h> we really need the correct choices for config items documented
14:51:20 <annegentle> Thanks everyone!
14:51:25 <Ajaeger1> thanks, annegentle !
14:51:27 <Sam-I-Am> thanks!
14:51:34 <annegentle> phil_h: more than just lists, agreed
14:51:34 <phil_h> thanks
14:51:34 <Sam-I-Am> phil_h: agreed
14:51:37 <annegentle> #endmeeting