14:03:04 <annegentle> #startmeeting docteam
14:03:04 <openstack> Meeting started Wed May  7 14:03:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03:05 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:03:07 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
14:03:11 <annegentle> Okay, agenda is here:
14:03:17 <annegentle> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting
14:03:26 <annegentle> First topic, as usual
14:03:31 <annegentle> #topic Action items from last meeting
14:04:01 <annegentle> pout. No one did this that I recall
14:04:01 <annegentle> everyone look at the requirements listing in http://justwriteclick.com/2014/04/10/tearing-down-obstacles-to-openstack-documentation-contributions/ and give feedback on the openstack-docs mailing list
14:04:40 <annegentle> and then I don't recall what this one was? annegentle to send post about doc tools requirements to openstack-docs mailing list
14:05:01 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: oops :/
14:05:26 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: is there a thread on the ML for your blog post?
14:05:45 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: I guess not?
14:05:53 <annegentle> I'm looking and I don't see one... bummah
14:05:59 <Sam-I-Am> doh
14:06:03 <annegentle> I've got a draft ready to send so I'll do that
14:06:15 <annegentle> ahh right. I never sent it.
14:06:17 <annegentle> Ok
14:06:20 <annegentle> sorry!
14:06:24 <annegentle> my bad
14:07:03 <annegentle> ok that's it for action items
14:07:13 <annegentle> since one didn't get done the other didn't either, naturally.
14:07:28 <annegentle> Okay this is the final week before the Summit
14:07:32 <annegentle> #topic Summit prep
14:07:57 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am has been doing a ton of work getting ready for the install guide session, thanks Matt!
14:08:14 <annegentle> nickchase and I are working on who talks about what in each of the cross project sessions
14:08:22 <Sam-I-Am> yeah... the audit was fun
14:08:37 <Sam-I-Am> trying to come up with more items for my session too
14:08:45 <Sam-I-Am> which hopefully others will be chiming in :)
14:08:51 <Sam-I-Am> remember, i'm the summit n00b
14:09:00 <annegentle> Yes for sure
14:09:09 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: there's a 101 Session that you'll want to go to
14:09:36 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: the dev summit 101?
14:09:56 <annegentle> #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/e04c26e2a5df3a5089b2ed701d2aac3b#.U2o-r61dU0w
14:10:07 <annegentle> Yep, that's the one ^^ we do it each summit and role play how sessions go
14:10:20 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: ahh thats already on my calendar :)
14:10:29 <annegentle> Our Documentation track is grouped here
14:10:30 <annegentle> #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/documentation#.U2o-x61dU0w
14:10:47 <annegentle> And the two cross-project sessions are
14:11:01 <annegentle> #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/626a1e21babaf30d98973f5eb7402fcf
14:11:09 <annegentle> #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/19381e6ad48e05abc9099eb7ff956231
14:11:27 <Sam-I-Am> i found it interesting how the summits have different scheduling sites... so... lots of schedule conflicts to fix
14:11:27 <annegentle> Any questions about the summit?
14:11:33 <annegentle> yeah it's tough
14:11:36 <annegentle> I fought against it and lost
14:12:30 <annegentle> So nickchase, I think that the first session is about requirements gathering
14:12:45 <nickchase> right, well, I suppose it'd have to be
14:12:49 <annegentle> nickchase: and I'm sending an email today to get people to start thinking about it, across openstack-dev and openstack mailing list
14:12:54 <nickchase> great
14:12:59 <nickchase> you will probably want to make sure that ...
14:13:34 <nickchase> you explain that the two sessions are together.  I think that people may expect a certain amount of requirements gathering in the second session, from the description.
14:14:05 <annegentle> nickchase: ok
14:14:14 <annegentle> nickchase: I see the split as user doc vs. devs writing doc
14:15:01 <nickchase> annegentle: To a certain extent.  But the devs need to have their say on what they need to make this process smoother for them.
14:15:47 <annegentle> nickchase: what are your goals and expected outcomes? I see seeds of a process. Are you outlining an etherpad with the blueprint <project>-spec expectations ahead of time?
14:15:52 <annegentle> nickchase: absolutely
14:16:39 <nickchase> annegentle:  Never having done this before, I didn't think about that, thank you. :)  I will do that.  My goals and expected outcomes are...
14:17:19 <nickchase> annegentle:  that we get the devs to talk about their own processes and the circumstances under which they feel like they would contribute more regularly, and then we would ...
14:17:41 <nickchase> annegentle:  either during the session or afterwards, depending on how it goes, figure out how to make that work for them.
14:17:48 <nickchase> annegentle:  Or am I being unrealistic?
14:18:05 <annegentle> nickchase: I don't think that's unrealistic
14:18:12 <annegentle> nickchase: use https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/restructure-docs-session as a template
14:18:19 <annegentle> nickchase: and list your goals
14:18:41 <annegentle> nickchase: with questions you want answered
14:18:45 <nickchase> annegentle:  Thanks, appreciate it.
14:20:05 <Michalik> annegentle - Thanks for the Summit 101 link! Just reposted for our team.
14:20:33 <annegentle> nickchase: I also think that the dev base is smaller than we really think.
14:21:00 <nickchase> annegentle:  that could very well be.  I suppose we'll find out!
14:21:03 <annegentle> nickchase: not to hash out your session now, but check out slide 33 of http://www.slideshare.net/littleidea/openstack-an-authentic-critique
14:21:25 <annegentle> one other question, how can we sit together at lunch Monday?
14:21:31 <annegentle> that'll let us continue discussing
14:21:37 <annegentle> to lead into the next one
14:22:39 <annegentle> I don't know a lot about lunch arrangements but typically it's at the convo center so I'll see what I can do
14:22:41 <annegentle> ok
14:22:50 <annegentle> #topic developer.openstack.org
14:23:00 <annegentle> We've got the domain registered and now we're working on copying the content to it
14:23:20 <annegentle> the content will be the same as api.openstack.org, which is just the landing page and all the pages related to http://api.openstack.org/api-ref.html
14:23:39 <annegentle> we may change that from a Cloud Sites set of pages to a Cloud Files static site
14:23:47 <annegentle> Just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.
14:24:03 <annegentle> The content will be geared towards app devs consuming OpenStack resources
14:24:17 <Sam-I-Am> cool
14:24:46 <annegentle> SDKs, etc
14:25:14 <annegentle> We may move the user guide CLI over there, not sure yet. That's what I want to talk about in the session about requirements
14:25:29 <annegentle> #topic Doc contribution survey - results coming
14:25:47 <annegentle> We got less than 40 responses to the survey, but I think they offer insights
14:26:35 <annegentle> It was interesting, filling in the "other" portion to barriers was the most answered barrier
14:26:55 <annegentle> then it was Docbook, followed by not knowing where a bit of info goes, followed by Git/Gerrit
14:27:17 <annegentle> Even grouping the "other" question a pattern emerged that people just don't think they know enough to contribute
14:27:39 <annegentle> then when you look at who answered the survey, I see that the majority who answered contribute or use OpenStack less than 10 hours a week
14:27:59 <annegentle> so I'm not sure we got quite what we need from the survey, and it'll be important to test out the data at the Summit
14:28:04 <annegentle> nickchase: does that help you some too? ^^
14:28:14 <nickchase> yes
14:28:19 <annegentle> My sense is that we need to shift towards asking more consumers to write docs than devs, but that is just a guess
14:28:32 <annegentle> perhaps two people who responded work on OpenStack full time
14:28:53 <annegentle> also people don't have a test bed to test things on
14:29:05 <annegentle> I'll send a mailing list post right after this meeting
14:29:10 <nickchase> annegentle:  the problem here is that it's the devs we really need to hear from.  I mean, they're the ones who are writing what in many cases turns out to be incomprehensible messages about what it is that we then need to document.
14:29:12 <annegentle> any questions?
14:29:29 <annegentle> nickchase: but that's where <project>-specs is helping, have you been reviewing those?
14:29:44 <annegentle> nickchase: to me it's a matter of getting all the projects to follow nova/neutron's lead?
14:30:03 <nickchase> annegentle:  not sure what you're referring to, there's been a LOT of stuff flowing past me
14:30:23 <annegentle> nickchase: ok, I mentioned it in an email I sent. the nova-specs backlog is over 100 blueprints to be reviewed
14:30:35 <annegentle> is/has
14:30:57 <annegentle> I'll wait to see if anyone has Qs...
14:31:25 <annegentle> #topic Doc tools news
14:31:26 <nickchase> annegentle:  yes, I've been lookign at that
14:31:57 <annegentle> Ok all I've got here is that we can now use SCP rather than plain-ol' FTP to copy the HTML and PDF to the docs sites
14:32:17 <annegentle> And 0.13 of the openstack-doc-tools tool is the latest version
14:32:40 <annegentle> nickchase: sorry didn't mean to move too fast. So your sense is that that's useful for docs or not useful?
14:33:16 <nickchase> annegentle:  don't let me hold you up.  Useful, but not sufficient.
14:33:39 <annegentle> nickchase: yep it doesn't have the user / operator empathy that a docs person brings to the table
14:33:54 <nickchase> annegentle:  right.
14:34:16 <annegentle> #topic Installation guide notes
14:34:29 <annegentle> I wanted to bring this up because Sam-I-Am did a ton of work auditing the install guides
14:34:54 <annegentle> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/installation-guide-audit
14:35:00 <annegentle> so that's a great etherpad for the session
14:35:03 <Sam-I-Am> please add/change stuff
14:35:18 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: all I'd say is add the template at the top that lists the session name, presenter, which room, etc.
14:35:41 <Sam-I-Am> ok... will need to find that template
14:36:09 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: use the top of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/restructure-docs-session
14:36:36 <annegentle> #topic Doc Sprint in Brisbane to coincide with Pycon AU
14:36:53 <annegentle> That's August 4-5, see http://2014.pycon-au.org/
14:37:01 <annegentle> Super cool they're doing that
14:37:24 <annegentle> Ok lots of time for open discussion
14:37:26 <annegentle> #topic Open discussion
14:37:48 <Sam-I-Am> not much here... looking forward to the summit and seeing everyone
14:37:58 <Sam-I-Am> should be a tiring blast!
14:38:18 <nickchase> sam-i-am: that should sum it up. :)
14:38:33 <annegentle> tiring blast is exactly right!
14:38:41 <annegentle> I had a great time at Write the Docs in Portland
14:38:52 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: cool
14:38:56 <Sam-I-Am> did you write some docs?
14:39:26 <annegentle> One person live blogged all the main talks, it was amazing
14:39:28 <annegentle> #link http://andrewspittle.com/tag/write-the-docs/
14:39:30 <annegentle> that guy did!
14:39:40 <annegentle> In my six hours delayed plane situation I sure wrote some docs.
14:39:45 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: were we supposed to meet today to talk about something?
14:39:57 <Sam-I-Am> maybe it was my session?
14:40:05 <Sam-I-Am> or the review guide...
14:40:06 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: maybe the process session?
14:40:10 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes
14:40:13 <annegentle> review guide
14:40:41 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: and nickchase both, I want to encourage you to post to the mailing list this week, so we ensure we get people at the sessions beyond just "us"
14:41:02 <Sam-I-Am> post about the sessions?
14:41:31 <nickchase> to openstack-dev, you mean?
14:41:58 <nickchase> actually, I need to do at least one summit-related blog post as well
14:42:01 <annegentle> nickchase: for yours, yes. and openstack-docs too there are devs there interested in docs and of course we want them to attend
14:42:16 <nickchase> and I'm not ready to write about my main talk
14:42:22 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes a brief description of the goals for the session
14:42:22 <Sam-I-Am> general openstack list?
14:42:43 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: for yours, I would think openstack-doc would suffice, but you could certainly use the openstack list too
14:42:48 <nickchase> and a link to the etherpad, I assume?
14:43:12 <annegentle> nickchase: yep
14:43:24 <annegentle> At Write the Docs, two community presentations stood out to me.
14:43:25 <annegentle> #link http://andrewspittle.com/2014/05/05/write-the-docs-ali-spivak-communities-are-awesome/
14:43:40 <annegentle> #link http://andrewspittle.com/2014/05/06/write-the-docs-drew-jaynes-putting-the-docs-cart-before-the-standards-horse/
14:43:57 <annegentle> Wordpress actually has multiple doc teams for multiple audiences/toolchains
14:44:10 <annegentle> Codex is separate from the docs for developers of Wordpress
14:44:20 <Sam-I-Am> interesting
14:44:21 <annegentle> that was a nice confirmation
14:44:57 <annegentle> Definitely read the twitter stream
14:44:58 <annegentle> https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23writethedocs
14:45:06 <annegentle> one major theme was "treat docs like code"
14:45:08 <annegentle> so we're right on, man
14:45:58 <annegentle> The videos will be available and I highly recommend them. I watched all of last year's.
14:46:09 <annegentle> anything else? Want back 14 minutes of your day?
14:46:47 <annegentle> have it!
14:46:49 <annegentle> #endmeeting