03:06:53 <loquacities> #startmeeting docteam
03:06:53 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jul  2 03:06:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
03:06:54 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
03:06:56 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
03:07:19 <loquacities> just pulling up the logs from the last US meeting ...
03:07:53 <loquacities> #topic Action items from the last meeting
03:08:10 <loquacities> Anne to send IBM Style Guide Kindle to berendt
03:08:11 <loquacities> Anne to send IBM Style Guide Kindle to phil_h
03:08:18 <loquacities> that's it!
03:08:29 <loquacities> anyone in APAC need an IBM book?
03:08:31 <Sam-I-Am> it was a little nonexistant
03:08:52 <Sam-I-Am> although i did find it interesting that the ibm style guide suggests gerunds for titles :P
03:09:01 <loquacities> good!
03:09:04 * loquacities likes gerunds
03:09:16 <annegentle> I don't think I have the accounts for those two, will follow up.
03:09:23 <loquacities> i assume the red hatters have IBM books already
03:09:31 <loquacities> and i know i've asked you to send some to my team
03:09:33 <annegentle> I have print copies in Austin so let me know if you want one
03:09:50 <dnavale> yup.. we do
03:10:05 <loquacities> cool
03:10:10 <loquacities> #topic Discuss a doc-spec repo and doc-spec template
03:10:37 <annegentle> loquacities: those arrived in destination country yesterday :)
03:10:43 <Sam-I-Am> is this a replacement for blueprints?
03:10:45 <loquacities> annegentle: did you want to talk about the doc-spec stuff?
03:10:46 <annegentle> o/
03:10:48 <annegentle> sure
03:10:58 <loquacities> oh, cool, i should have them any day then
03:11:01 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: docs-spec template replaces the wiki page link
03:11:09 <annegentle> blueprints are still tracked in Launchpad
03:11:21 <annegentle> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103115/
03:11:23 <Sam-I-Am> hmm ok
03:11:26 <annegentle> the template is there ^^
03:11:44 <annegentle> I'm going to make one more tweak I think -- I did an informal poll about who the review team typically is
03:11:55 <annegentle> the way it's set up now, it'll be a separate team from docs-core
03:11:59 <annegentle> who approves blueprints
03:12:10 <Sam-I-Am> eeeeeo yaml
03:12:14 <annegentle> some projects do it that way
03:12:26 <loquacities> hrm, ok
03:12:47 <asettle> hmph loquacities
03:12:53 <loquacities> heya asettle :)
03:12:59 <annegentle> #link https://github.com/annegentle/docs-specs/blob/master/template.rst
03:13:04 <annegentle> ^^ that's the template
03:13:19 <annegentle> sorry misplaced link
03:13:28 <Sam-I-Am> that works
03:13:43 <annegentle> I sent an email Monday (your Tues) that talks about the balancing act here
03:13:52 <annegentle> I only want up front design for large changes
03:14:00 <annegentle> otherwise, just effing write for pity's sake
03:14:09 <loquacities> LOL
03:14:11 <annegentle> :)
03:14:17 <annegentle> loquacities: I thought you'd appreciate that
03:14:23 <annegentle> don't write to write, just write.
03:14:24 <loquacities> i think that's a very sane approach :)
03:14:38 <annegentle> I don't want heavy handed reviews either
03:14:48 <Sam-I-Am> ahhh well crap, you've come to the wrong place
03:14:53 <annegentle> so I _think_ (but want input) that a small core review team makes sense
03:15:02 <loquacities> yeah, possibly
03:15:18 <loquacities> the problem with that is what happens as people drift away or get preoccupied
03:15:41 <annegentle> small core review team? Or specs not getting enough updates?
03:15:49 <loquacities> small core team
03:16:29 <annegentle> yeah. could just be me, Sean, Andreas, and Brian to cover the projects within Docs. training, tools, security
03:16:45 <annegentle> and that seems ok for the workload, we only have 3 to review for juno
03:16:47 <loquacities> yeah, i worry about failover
03:16:58 <loquacities> but we can probably deal with that as it arises anyway
03:16:59 <annegentle> yeah release to release who knows
03:17:11 <loquacities> +1
03:17:16 <Sam-I-Am> dont get hit by a bus
03:17:20 <dnavale> +1
03:17:21 <loquacities> +1 :)
03:17:24 <dnavale> lol
03:17:28 <loquacities> #topic Training-guides now in Docs program; security-guide now in Docs program
03:17:35 <annegentle> heh I'm a very careful driver
03:17:55 <annegentle> so those were both voted in by the TC with no questions or concerns
03:18:07 <loquacities> yeah, not sure there's much more we need to say there
03:18:11 <annegentle> yup
03:18:14 <loquacities> but there it is, in case anyone didn't notice
03:18:21 <annegentle> news blast! :)
03:18:22 <Sam-I-Am> wish i had more time to get involved in the training guides
03:18:25 <loquacities> #topic Discuss publishing to /dev; /current; /drafts; other ideas
03:18:42 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: just keep doing good install guides and they'll benefit :)
03:18:53 <loquacities> yeah, true that
03:18:56 <Sam-I-Am> sure
03:19:10 <Sam-I-Am> so yeah, this... differentiation of docs
03:19:19 <loquacities> yeah, i don't think i'm up on this bit
03:19:22 <Sam-I-Am> also need to keep google's nose out of things
03:19:47 <Sam-I-Am> there's an e-mail thread on the list about it
03:19:49 <loquacities> oh, because it's indexing /dev?
03:19:55 <Sam-I-Am> well, /trunk
03:19:55 <loquacities> i think i saw that on a patch
03:20:00 <loquacities> right
03:20:17 <loquacities> seems like the workaround is pretty kludgy
03:20:19 <annegentle> yeah the /trunk naming was a holdover from bazaar/bzr days
03:20:29 <Sam-I-Am> with the install guide in particular, people liked trunk because it usually had less bugs.. or something.
03:20:32 <annegentle> git calls it master, bzr calls it trunk
03:20:46 <Sam-I-Am> i think its trunk in svn too
03:20:49 <annegentle> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-June/004664.html
03:20:51 <loquacities> dammit, open source
03:21:26 <Sam-I-Am> another possibly similar question came up early with the api docs. how does one know which api version applies to which release(s) ?
03:21:31 <loquacities> do we have the capability of doing watermarks or something?
03:21:37 <annegentle> loquacities: yes
03:21:41 <Sam-I-Am> i havent had much time to look into it, but it seemed like a valid concern
03:21:55 <Sam-I-Am> can we watermark web pages?
03:22:06 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: there's no match because for example Keystone v3 can run on havana or icehouse. It's provider choice.
03:22:07 <loquacities> docbook is capable, as long as our CSS is
03:22:09 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes
03:22:19 <annegentle> loquacities: Sam-I-Am: there's a setting in the pom.xml
03:22:25 <Sam-I-Am> cool
03:22:38 <loquacities> so maybe we could watermark with the release name or something for things in /trunk?
03:22:39 <annegentle> so, draft?
03:22:56 <annegentle> "don'tcomplainifthisdoesn'twork"
03:22:56 <loquacities> yeah, draft is probably adequate
03:22:59 <loquacities> lol
03:23:23 <Sam-I-Am> draft seems pretty standard
03:23:38 <brucer> "very drafty"  ?
03:23:48 <annegentle> brucer: will give you the sniffles
03:23:51 <loquacities> hehe
03:23:52 <brucer> (= full of holes?)
03:24:07 <Sam-I-Am> and then to keep the googles away
03:24:08 <annegentle> works but only if you install from source
03:24:24 <Sam-I-Am> also still have that bug open about marking outdated stuff
03:24:29 <annegentle> seems like we could do this just for the install guide
03:24:34 <Sam-I-Am> i still have tons of grizzly stuff come up on my searches
03:24:35 <annegentle> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1191447
03:24:37 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1191447 in openstack-manuals "Clearly mark outdated doc pages" [Critical,Confirmed]
03:24:44 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: any doc with a specific releace cycle
03:24:52 <loquacities> i imagine you could use a watermark for that too
03:24:55 <annegentle> fifieldt said in the comments he didn't think a watermark helped, but we can overrule :)
03:24:57 <Sam-I-Am> or any new doc, perhaps
03:25:06 <loquacities> although possibly now that i have a hammer, everything is looking like a nail
03:25:08 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: install and config are only two matching a release cycle
03:25:34 <Sam-I-Am> its interesting that most of the time, google returns grizzly docs. i wonder what happened in grizzly that made google happy.
03:25:35 <annegentle> loquacities: that does happen but I do think the watermark is a known standard and we should at least use it since it's at our disposal
03:25:44 <loquacities> yeah, agreed
03:25:47 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: everyone's still referring to those because they still run grizzly
03:25:49 <loquacities> it doesn't seem too crazy
03:25:54 <loquacities> and it works around the google problem
03:25:58 <annegentle> loquacities: +1 for not-crazy
03:26:07 <loquacities> there's a LOT of grizzly installs out there, i think
03:26:15 <Sam-I-Am> did we have a way in mind to prevent indexing of draft?
03:26:17 <annegentle> yes based on the user survey
03:26:40 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: the sitemap has been updated to remove /trunk (and nothing else is added)
03:26:53 <annegentle> so I think this is fairly well sorted, the next step would be watermark
03:26:59 <loquacities> ok, cool
03:27:07 <loquacities> APAC docs team next problem: world hunger
03:27:08 <annegentle> multiple steps after that would be a complete redesign but that's not the scope
03:27:19 <annegentle> whirled peas
03:27:34 <Sam-I-Am> loquacities: more like eppo
03:27:35 <loquacities> mmm ... tasty ....
03:27:40 <loquacities> #topic New glance team mission means possible Image Service rename
03:27:45 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: sworld peace would be easier
03:27:50 <annegentle> so I would looooove input here
03:27:53 <loquacities> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98002/.
03:27:58 <loquacities> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98002/
03:28:04 <loquacities> sorry, random period crept in there
03:28:29 <Sam-I-Am> i guess this isnt a huge deal
03:28:32 <Sam-I-Am> just a lot of work
03:29:05 <loquacities> "artifact repository"?
03:29:09 <loquacities> who comes up with this stuff?
03:29:14 <Sam-I-Am> however, continous release docs might confuse people using earlier versions
03:29:19 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: my sense of it is we can refer to the image service when it's serving images, it just won't be the OpenStack Image Service
03:29:28 <annegentle> loquacities: tee hee
03:29:38 <annegentle> concern with repository is that it's not actually storing
03:29:46 <loquacities> yeah
03:29:48 <annegentle> artifact catalog is closer to technically accurate
03:29:48 <dnavale> is there a doc bug raised for this one?
03:29:51 <loquacities> and the term is way overused, too
03:29:59 <Sam-I-Am> the word artifact is meh
03:29:59 <annegentle> dnavale: not that I know of, good idea for tracking
03:30:16 <loquacities> i haven't seen a doc bug
03:30:23 <Sam-I-Am> how about just... catalog
03:30:35 <Sam-I-Am> or thingcubator
03:30:49 <dnavale> i'll raise one
03:30:52 <loquacities> lol
03:31:06 <dnavale> and Sam-I-Am: that sounds awesome
03:31:38 <loquacities> i think i want to dive into this more before i comment
03:31:46 <Sam-I-Am> just saying there's other, potentially more fun names
03:31:55 <annegentle> it will enable versioning of the images or templates it gives you
03:32:02 <Sam-I-Am> artifacts are what happens when your mpeg stream breaks up
03:32:05 <annegentle> really the artifact for starters is either an image or a heat template
03:32:30 <loquacities> isn't that artefact?
03:32:34 <loquacities> or did i make that up?
03:32:53 <annegentle> loquacities: oh! perhaps that's brit spelling?
03:32:56 <loquacities> hrm, actually google thinks that's a US/UK english thing
03:32:56 * annegentle looks it up
03:33:12 <loquacities> i thought they had two separate meanings, but apparently not
03:33:29 <Sam-I-Am> well, synonyms for it are... bleh
03:33:38 <loquacities> anyway, we've digressed
03:33:43 <loquacities> #topic Installation guide improvements
03:33:51 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: i believe this is dear to your heart?
03:34:02 <Sam-I-Am> i guess
03:34:09 <Sam-I-Am> multiple people are taking part in it
03:34:14 <Sam-I-Am> we're slowly slogging through it
03:34:31 <loquacities> excellent
03:34:33 <Sam-I-Am> ideally i'd like at least the 'core' chapters done in time for the first juno packages to drop
03:34:35 <loquacities> glad you've got help :)
03:34:40 <Sam-I-Am> then focus turns to trying to install juno
03:34:48 <Sam-I-Am> yes me too, plenty to do on that list
03:34:48 <loquacities> heh, it's never ending :)
03:35:01 <loquacities> #topic Conventions and review guide
03:35:13 <Sam-I-Am> yes... this.
03:35:16 <loquacities> has anything been decided here?
03:35:20 <Sam-I-Am> we originally had the review book
03:35:24 <Sam-I-Am> then we decided to keep it wiki
03:35:30 <loquacities> +1
03:35:39 <Sam-I-Am> andreas was going to restructure the wiki to make it more useful, then went on vacation
03:35:48 <Sam-I-Am> the review guide was waiting on those changes
03:35:50 <loquacities> heh
03:36:01 <annegentle> yeah I'm not sure if that needed to go back on the agenda, nothing new that I know of
03:36:06 <Sam-I-Am> there is a lackluster review guide page on the wiki
03:36:08 <loquacities> ok, cool
03:36:18 <Sam-I-Am> annegentle: i put it there because i wondered why there hasnt been progress
03:36:24 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: ah
03:36:28 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: impatient you are
03:36:30 <Sam-I-Am> the review guide is important, especially with a release coming up
03:36:34 <loquacities> true
03:36:43 <Sam-I-Am> we're the #1 -1 team lol
03:36:46 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: we're not even to milestone-2
03:37:04 <loquacities> it's very easy to get bored of this work, though
03:37:13 <loquacities> so i guess it's good to keep it on the agenda and poking people
03:37:17 <annegentle> true loquacities
03:37:21 <loquacities> ok, moving on
03:37:26 <loquacities> #topic Doc tools updates - xi include more than once; swift options
03:37:44 <loquacities> oh, i saw that update
03:37:50 <annegentle> so the xi:include enhancements is in 2.0.2 I believe
03:37:54 <loquacities> excellent
03:38:01 <loquacities> that will help us a lot, too
03:38:20 <annegentle> #link https://github.com/stackforge/clouddocs-maven-plugin#clouddocs-maven-plugin-210-june-23-2014
03:38:26 <annegentle> nope 2.1.0
03:38:42 <annegentle> I released 0.16 of openstack-doc-tools today
03:39:01 <annegentle> #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-doc-tools#016
03:39:01 <loquacities> oh cool
03:39:24 <loquacities> darrenc: ^^ just wanted to make sure you saw this
03:39:27 <annegentle> so now you can sorta kinda maybe sorta scrape the swift sample config files for descriptions
03:39:36 <loquacities> lol
03:39:52 * darrenc looking
03:39:58 <annegentle> but I did send a note to the -dev mailing list asking for more descriptions as many are blank for entire portions of configuration
03:40:06 <loquacities> there's mail from david cramer on the OS docs list on 25 june
03:40:17 <annegentle> yep
03:40:36 <loquacities> ok, that's everything on the agenda
03:40:41 <loquacities> #topic Open discussion
03:41:08 <loquacities> any other business?
03:41:09 <Sam-I-Am> how's continuity with the people changes lately?
03:41:20 <Sam-I-Am> i see anne is still breathing
03:41:28 <annegentle> We do have a backfill for David Cramer
03:41:30 <annegentle> #link http://rackspace.jobs/austin-tx/software-developer-iii/0ACE3ABF718D436DACDAFCC783733CD2/job/
03:41:35 <annegentle> hopefully that's not gauche to post here
03:41:58 <loquacities> hrm, is that strictly austin-based?
03:42:05 <Sam-I-Am> ooh, i could work at rackspace
03:42:12 <loquacities> lol
03:42:34 <annegentle> loquacities: I wouldn't say so but that's the system. The manager's in SA so I'm guessing it's due to the backfill nature.
03:42:36 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: yeah, you *could* :P
03:42:38 <annegentle> and then backfill for Diane
03:42:42 <annegentle> #link http://rackspace.jobs/austin-tx/senior-information-developer/84E2230D7FD0451489FE34AFC5F8C163/job/
03:42:46 <loquacities> yep, fair enough
03:42:58 <Sam-I-Am> huh, i thought her title was software developer
03:42:59 <annegentle> besides, Austin is great :)
03:43:01 <loquacities> i might send it to some people here, anyway, it can't hurt
03:43:03 <Sam-I-Am> which is what had me all confused
03:43:13 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: yes, not what we got with what we have though
03:43:39 <loquacities> hey, *i* was a software developer for a few months when i first started too :P
03:43:47 <annegentle> Sam-I-Am: vague way of saying "it's complicated"
03:43:53 <annegentle> loquacities: oh yeah! :)
03:44:12 <Sam-I-Am> heh
03:44:15 <Sam-I-Am> everything is complicated...
03:44:27 <brucer> loquacities:  you're still one in your spare time, right?
03:44:38 <loquacities> brucer: hardly
03:44:52 <brucer> :-)
03:44:54 <loquacities> in my spare time i'm more 'sit on the couch and watch movies developer'
03:45:04 <loquacities> ok, i think we've covered the important stuff
03:45:10 <Sam-I-Am> yep
03:45:11 <brucer> OK!
03:45:20 <annegentle> thanks y'all, helpful
03:45:21 <loquacities> thanks everyone! o/
03:45:22 <annegentle> oh wait!
03:45:25 <annegentle> one more thing
03:45:27 * loquacities hangs
03:45:35 <annegentle> we should have a new sphinx template that indicates incubation status
03:45:41 <annegentle> that'll probably happen this week or next
03:45:56 <annegentle> so incubating teams can build with oslosphinx but use an option to add an incubating indicator
03:45:59 <annegentle> that's all!
03:46:06 <annegentle> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103349/
03:46:10 <Sam-I-Am> great, something to keep me up all night
03:46:11 <loquacities> heh, neat
03:46:22 <dnavale> nice
03:46:22 <annegentle> if you are fascinated with that read up :)
03:46:32 <annegentle> thanks!
03:46:51 <loquacities> easy, thanks everyone
03:46:54 <Sam-I-Am> see y'all sometime in the future
03:46:54 <loquacities> #endmeeting