14:01:31 #startmeeting docteam 14:01:32 Meeting started Wed Mar 11 14:01:31 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:01:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:01:35 The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' 14:01:38 hi nickchase! 14:01:53 Here's our agenda for the meeting 14:02:04 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting 14:02:09 first item 14:02:15 #topic Action items from the last meeting 14:02:34 Oh I think I'm going to borrow from the API Working group and add #topic and #link commands to the agenda itself next time 14:02:39 Ok, last meeting 14:03:15 that was the APAC meeting, here's the action item 14:03:23 asettle to book informal Brisbane meetup for 31 March, and send out invites 14:03:41 That doesn't affect too many of us in this timezone 14:04:01 from our last meeting, Andreas and I had all the action items 14:04:09 Done: AJaeger to update the docs driver spec at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133372/ 14:04:17 Done: annegentle to make a call for final review in the weekly docs status update post 14:04:26 Done: annegentle to update .htaccess and then delete /trunk/install and /trunk/training-guides 14:04:36 oh wait 14:04:48 Done: KLevenstein to share a lightweight “how to contribute to openstack” doc 14:04:51 thanks KLevenstein! 14:05:07 so that was sort of backwards order but they're all done 14:05:18 any questions? 14:05:29 We don't have an ajaeger, darn :) 14:05:44 #topic Any theme bugs that would prevent releasing RST-based User Guide 14:05:47 Is there a link to the lightweight guide for those of us who were not here last meeting? 14:05:56 sicarie: sure I'll find the link 14:06:00 Thanks! 14:06:10 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo/FirstTimers 14:06:16 and then the one KLevenstein sent out is here: 14:06:49 #link https://gist.github.com/klevenstein/20ab9def5cec5146f995 14:06:57 Thanks annegentle 14:07:00 sure thing 14:07:09 there's not much that's truly lightweight :) 14:07:49 brb, network issues 14:07:51 Very true - bdpayne and I are looking to revise the sec-guide contribution sections, so this is awesome 14:07:56 Okay, I've been sending out queries to the mailing list, are there any killer bugs that would prevent us from RST 14:08:01 sicarie: great! 14:08:18 prevent us from switching to RST for the end user guide and admin user guide? 14:08:33 Darren asked some great questions about the HOT chapter, I think we've got that covered. 14:08:54 and the translation team and Daisy really came through as did Andreas with the rest of the toolchain 14:09:12 #info Much gratitude to Daisy, Andreas, and everyone who helped with the RST translation toolchain addition 14:10:44 so, I've been trying to get a decent count of "what's left to migrate" 14:10:49 and I've updated the wiki page 14:11:01 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate 14:11:07 Darren has been going great gangbusters 14:11:38 #info There are about 20 remaining files for the Admin User Guide migration 14:12:02 One bit of info I want to figure out today is "how many files are remaining for the end user guide to be completely migrated" 14:12:20 so I'll figure that out and do a ML post with "state of the migration" updates (hopefully today) 14:12:37 I'm out next week for spring break so I don't know how many more I'll get to myself, this is definitely a call for HELP. 14:12:51 #help Sign up to migrate XML to RST for the End User Guide and Admin User Guide 14:13:12 #help 14:13:13 Now that the translation toolchain is looking good, we must migrate everything by April 9. 14:13:30 karenb: that help command goes to the meetbot for note-taking 14:13:36 I think you can use /help for IRC commands 14:13:48 it's a call for help in the notes :) 14:14:02 I know I've been asking people to send questions to the ML about what conventions we want for RST 14:14:11 such as: do we want multiple admonitions in a row? 14:14:59 and 14:15:00 Any clever solutions to console output past the 79 char limit? 14:15:18 we used to get scrollbars 14:15:21 Last night I sent Darren an example of what we did for the Ops Guide, where O'Reilly has hard limits due to the printed page 14:15:26 we could also use a smaller font 14:15:38 i think this one is bigger (or bolder) than what we used to render 14:16:11 Sam-I-Am: oh other good news on admonitions, there's a patch in place to fix the small icon, and yes, the font is smaller. 14:16:16 Sam-I-Am: let me show you just a sec 14:16:52 #link http://docs-draft.openstack.org/64/162164/6/check/gate-openstackdocstheme-docs/99e7de3//doc/build/html/ 14:17:10 Sam-I-Am: it has more "white space" which is actually colored than before 14:17:33 I think, back to the original topic, we need Next and Prev links before releasing 14:17:52 But the original bugs that were really high on my list are getting fixed by Bernd Bausch in really clever ways. 14:18:01 (The admonitions were a must have for me) 14:18:09 did the 'file a bug' icon gain meta yet? 14:18:21 Sam-I-Am: he's working on it but stalled I believe 14:18:28 Sam-I-Am: so nope not yet, is that a blocker? 14:18:31 yep 14:18:33 i think so 14:18:35 (I really want it) 14:18:48 I also really want the TOC to work better 14:18:50 turns out people at the ops meetup really like it 14:18:57 yeah it's super useful 14:19:05 ok I'd better keep getting through the topics 14:19:16 #topic Driver doc editors and deadlines 14:19:26 The announcement went to the 3rd party list last week about the driver docs 14:19:44 I think there's some concern about deletions but I don't think we have deletions in mind, mostly expectations setting. 14:21:20 #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/kilo/move-driver-docs.html 14:21:38 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/VendorDrivers 14:22:17 #inf We have a decent list of storage driver contacts but need network, database, and hypervisor contacts 14:22:19 spread the word! 14:22:35 I'll add it to this week's What's Up Doc 14:22:39 any questions? 14:22:53 #topic Report from Ops Meetup 14:23:02 Sounds like Sam-I-Am is still there 14:23:08 yep 14:23:08 I wanted to share the list of etherpads 14:23:39 #link http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-mid-cycle-meetup-day-one-roundup 14:23:44 That's the list of etherpads 14:23:57 and there are two other superuser.openstack.org articles I haven't read yet, so do take a look 14:24:24 Anything specific to docs Sam-I-Am? I already reached out to the Security Guide lead Bryan to get his take on the security discussions 14:24:40 yeah, a few things 14:25:06 first, cinder seems to be doing it right with their devs - no docs, no approve. 14:25:13 great 14:25:23 also explains why they have editors on that driver list :) 14:25:25 we need to see that with more projects 14:26:03 learned a bit more about what people are generally doing for HA ... most of this will go to the HA guide team 14:26:14 great 14:26:15 excellent 14:26:39 Sam-I-Am: Rabbitmq a lot of it? Seems like high problem set there 14:26:43 people like the networking guide... trying to get ops contributors for scenarios (either new or improvements) because they're in the trenches 14:26:53 everyone hates rabbitmq, but everything else is worse 14:27:07 no one is using distro packages... except one guy at canonical. 14:27:12 ayup on the "in the trenches" 14:27:15 oh interesting 14:27:26 but for that group, using their own packages makes sense 14:27:26 for various reasons 14:27:42 were you in the tags session? 14:27:46 yes 14:27:52 any takeaways? 14:27:58 a larger question mark 14:28:03 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PHL-ops-tags 14:28:12 those are tags for governance of projects 14:28:27 yeah it's tough right 14:28:27 lots of argument around "how do we assure version X of thing1 works with version Y of thing2" 14:28:37 ok 14:28:40 what is "maturity" (and does it metter) 14:28:40 so intercompat 14:28:54 is the etherpad a decent set of notes from it? 14:29:05 yeah, all of the etherpads are good stuff 14:29:08 cool 14:29:11 Okay gotta keep it moving 14:29:23 Thanks Sam-I-Am for going to it and representin' docs! 14:29:28 #topic Specialty team reports 14:29:33 Anyone from training here? 14:29:43 Want to give a report on the latest? 14:30:57 I'll just link to their meeting 14:30:59 #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-03-09-16.02.html 14:31:09 How about Security Guide team? 14:31:18 yeah 14:31:26 sicarie: go ahead, just a brief update will do 14:31:41 We have started an end-to-end review; there are three categories being targeted for review as they're "light" 14:31:50 compute, networking, and storage 14:31:53 nice 14:31:59 sicarie: logging doc bugs as you go? 14:32:03 I'm doing general structure cleanup 14:32:08 annegentle: of course! 14:32:11 sicarie: :) 14:32:15 You're such a model team :) 14:32:23 and we're targeting 'completion' of the larger projects by Liberty 14:32:34 awesome, so fall 2015? 14:32:38 yes 14:32:59 I think that's as general I can get without ranting :) 14:33:02 hee 14:33:03 Mom always did like you best. :) 14:33:11 okay, how about Networking? 14:33:20 We are actually making good progress... 14:33:26 though it's hard to see that... 14:33:27 nickchase: any updates? I'll dig up the link to your progress post to the ML too 14:33:29 with the git issues. 14:33:49 git issues are consuming most of my time now 14:34:01 and we have a new contributor who also cant figure it out 14:34:01 but we are trying to clean that up today. It's a little frustrating but we just need to go through it. I'm hoping... 14:34:11 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2015-February/005956.html 14:34:13 that as we get things settled it will smooth out. 14:34:27 nickchase: sounds good 14:34:42 thank you for reminding me I'm one meeting minutes report b3ehind. :) 14:34:59 nickchase: oh ha 14:35:05 nickchase: thanks for reminding people about the time change too 14:35:19 yeah, we've got a lot of that internally 14:35:24 nickchase: i think our meeting is still at the same time? 14:35:28 well, local time :) 14:35:31 yes 14:35:32 nickchase: usually you keep the same UTC time 14:35:42 yeah, but everyone who attends is in the US. 14:35:45 Sam-I-Am: but it does mean different local 14:35:56 So we kept local time and moved UTC. 14:36:23 ah 14:36:24 ok 14:36:29 rebel! 14:36:30 :) 14:36:33 that's nick! 14:36:40 kickin butt and taking names 14:36:44 Okay, any other specialty teams want to report? 14:36:55 Install Guide has to meet still, right KLevenstein? 14:37:07 trying to schedule a meeting as we speak, actually. 14:37:15 time is hard :/ 14:37:23 v. international team, so it’s a challenge, but as soon as something is settled on, will post to openstack-doc 14:38:06 yeah time zones and time changes oh my 14:38:27 Sam-I-Am: yeah I'd like the team to work on the spec together, looks like you've got progress and KLevenstein review now too 14:38:31 so hopefully that keeps it moving 14:38:39 Same for User Guide team, time zones are tough. 14:38:48 any other reports? 14:38:49 Any questions? 14:38:55 ha guide? 14:39:01 oh yeah! 14:39:09 Is MattGriffin around? 14:39:31 did you hear anything at the ops meetup Sam-I-Am? Sounds like ha-guide will get updates? 14:39:32 I can talk to ha guide 14:39:34 if he's not here. 14:39:36 nickchase: cool 14:39:50 ha guide will get updates. we have... 14:40:05 a fairly final toc which we're trying to assign writers for. 14:40:19 I'm hoping that we have something more solid after this week's meeting 14:40:20 annegentle: yeah, i have a better idea of what people are doing 14:40:29 so this should hopefully narrow down excess in the guide 14:40:39 things no one really does 14:40:50 nickchase: cool, when's that meeting? 14:41:04 tomorrow afternoon 14:41:14 geez I should have queued up a list of all the meeting times, I'll add those to the weekly doc update email 14:41:21 so we can get more specialists involved 14:41:24 nickchase: did it change times too? lol 14:41:25 Sam-I-Am I will actually miss that meeting but can you send me the notes you have so I can try and browbeat people beforehand? 14:41:41 hee 14:41:42 Sam-I-Am I don't know, actually. :) probably 14:41:47 we should find out. :) 14:41:51 nickchase: yeah, i can put something together 14:41:56 thx 14:42:07 nickchase: send me an email :) 14:42:11 Okay 14:42:24 kind of in an everything-is-backed-up-from-travel mess 14:42:24 thanks all who are making the specialty teams organized, MUCH appreciated! 14:42:33 Sam-I-Am done 14:42:47 nickchase, KLevenstein, Loquacities, Everyone 14:43:01 #topic API docs update 14:43:17 I triaged all the bugs yesterday, there are probably 280 now 14:43:27 bunch of Compute 2.1 API docimpacts landed looks like 14:43:52 would be nice to get nova people to attack them 14:44:08 I wanted to let you all know I'm going to take a JSON Schema patch solution to the API Working Group's meeting tomorrow to figure out if it's an okay stop-gap solution for not wanting to write XSDs and to offer automation. 14:44:23 Oh what I did for those DocImpact was to Subscribe the original author 14:44:29 that way they'll be notified. 14:44:35 good. 14:44:38 great idea 14:44:52 it's so amazing, the backlog of reviews for api-site is unprecedented 14:45:02 but it also means a lot of review time :) 14:45:08 I'll take it though, happy to see the uptick 14:45:20 are there any plans to replace wadl? 14:45:21 I think that's it for API docs, any questions? 14:45:28 that came up at the ops meetup too 14:45:33 Sam-I-Am: I will visit it in a blueprint next release for sho' 14:45:44 k 14:45:55 we have a Swagger migration path now but I've got to get the RST migration settled 14:46:04 all in good time 14:46:10 leads naturally to 14:46:16 #topic Doc tools update 14:46:28 I wanted to note how much Bernd has taken on for the Sphinx output, really love his work. 14:46:42 he documents all his code, and commit messages are really thorough, and his tests are easy to follow. 14:47:01 I'll try to do a release of openstackdocstheme this week before I go on spring break 14:47:16 Well I'll DEFINITELY do a release by tomorrow, how about that 14:47:22 sorry, completely missed this ;( 14:47:26 spring break... heh. 14:47:36 #info annegentle to create release of openstackdocstheme tomorow 14:47:40 welcome AJaeger! 14:47:48 Just got to doc tools! Great timing :) 14:48:10 ;/ 14:48:14 Sam-I-Am: yeah my spring break will consist of a staycation with two squirrelly sons :) 14:48:28 AJaeger: how's the translation stuff going? 14:48:53 before we can build translated RST documents, we have to release openstack-doc-tools first, I send a patch for review 14:49:00 But this is not time-critical! 14:49:07 AJaeger: okay 14:49:18 First the translators need to translate and right now they cannot translate, since we're changing everything ;) 14:49:27 AJaeger: I mentioned earlier that I'd like all the RST ready by April 9 14:49:27 I tested that it works, so we can move forward 14:49:32 AJaeger: ah, okay. Good to know. 14:49:36 And import/export to transifex works. 14:49:52 woo! I sincerely hoped it would "just work" 14:50:00 so I'm glad we know it does 14:50:15 it needed some changes - thanks to Daisy for documenting how to really do it.. 14:50:18 thank you AJaeger for all that work (My earlier gushing gratitude is in the meeting log) :) 14:50:31 AJaeger: she's awesome 14:50:36 AJaeger: like, really really good 14:50:38 ;) 14:50:45 +infinity ;) 14:50:59 Okay let's leave lots of time for open discussion if there aren't doc tool questions 14:51:04 #topic Open discussion 14:51:14 questions? 14:52:04 I'd like to do a call for core reviewers - we've slowed down with getting patches in. 14:52:17 There are far too many patches that take weeks to get in ;( 14:52:33 because of -1s or just waiting for any reviews? 14:52:41 AJaeger: yes, do you think that's a side effect of migration patches? Though I am seeing it too for API docs for sure. 14:52:51 Just waiting for reviews - exapmle https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158275/ from 23rd of February. 14:53:07 Lots of +1s, today a +1 with a comment that I fixed directly - and no single core reviewed 14:53:11 And there are more 14:53:12 AJaeger: looking at the 30/60/90 review lists I can certainly make suggestions 14:53:32 what's the list of patches waiting for review? 14:53:58 There are some patches that have smooth sailing and go in quickly as usual but my feeling is that we have slowed down 14:54:02 nickchase, https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-manuals,n,z 14:54:15 I use https://review.openstack.org/#/dashboard/?foreach=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fdocs-specs+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fopera 14:54:15 tions-guide+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fsecurity-doc+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-doc-tools+OR+project%3Astackforge%2Fclouddocs-maven-plugin+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fha-guide%29+status%3Aopen+NOT+owner%3Aself+NOT+label%3AWorkflow%3C%3D-1+label%3AVerified%3E%3D1%252cjenkins+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D-1%252cself+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D1%252cself&title=Ops%2FUser+Do 14:54:15 cs+Review+Inbox&&Needs+feedback+%28Changes+older+than+5+days+that+have+not+been+reviewed+by+anyone%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D2+age%3A5d&Specs=project%3Aopenstack%2Fdocs-specs+status%3Aopen&API+Docs=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-ap 14:54:17 i+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api%29+status%3Aopen&Ops%2FAdmin+Docs=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Foperations-guide+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fsecurity-doc%29+status%3Aopen&Training=project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides&Doc+Tools=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-doc-tools+OR+project%3Astackforge%2Fclouddocs-maven-plugin%29+status%3Aopen&You+are+a+reviewer+%28but+haven%27t+v 14:54:19 oted+in+the+current+revision%29=reviewer%3Aself&Needs+final+%2B2=%28project%3Aopenstack%2Fopenstack-manuals+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fapi-site+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fobject-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fimage-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fidentity-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fcompute-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fvolume-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fnetconn-api+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Foperations-guide+OR+project%3Aop 14:54:20 aaaaaaaaa 14:54:21 enstack%2Fsecurity-doc+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Ftraining-guides+OR+project%3Aopenstack%2Fha-guide%29+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D2+limit%3A50&Passed+Jenkins+%28with+no+negative+feedback%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3E%3D2+NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D-1+limit%3A50&Wayward+Changes+%28Changes+with+no+code+review+in+the+last+two+days%29=NOT+label%3ACode-Review%3C%3D2+age%3A2d 14:54:23 oh lordy 14:54:25 sorry 14:54:26 and it' not only my patches... 14:54:26 :) 14:54:33 thanks 14:54:40 #link http://is.gd/JAHGeA 14:54:46 i try to do reviews, but been stuck on a lot of other things 14:54:52 (like git problems) 14:55:38 it's a problem I've been wanting for years, so bring it on 14:56:21 i would like to get this in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158983/ 14:56:32 because then i can convert the others similarly 14:56:57 Sam-I-Am, I left a question on that one - you spoke about migration but where is the original? IT's not in git... 14:57:08 AJaeger: its in my personal git repo 14:57:14 AJaeger: as are the other scenarios 14:57:36 Sam-I-Am: is Lana working on it as a template for the other scenarios? 14:57:37 Sam-I-Am, everybody was looking in openstack-manuals for it. ;( 14:57:54 Sam-I-Am, next time state where it comes from so that it's clear. 14:58:17 AJaeger: we decided to contribute technical content outside of gerrit so contributors could avoid the docs tool chain and -1 stuff. 14:58:17 could you comment there, please? 14:58:40 Sam-I-Am, there is content in openstack-manuals that is similar to what you contribute - so now you confuse users. 14:58:53 State next time: Import from XXX of this content 14:59:07 AJaeger: ok i can do that 14:59:16 Migration is for me the thing we do in the user-guide - a 1:1 copy of existing content in openstack-manual in XML to RST 14:59:53 AJaeger the problem is that it's taken too long to get things merged 14:59:55 annegentle, time is out, we have to leave 15:00:06 AJaeger: ayup 15:00:18 Okay! 15:00:21 Thanks all for attending 15:00:24 #endmeeting