23:33:13 <loquacities> #startmeeting docteam
23:33:14 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 23:33:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:33:16 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
23:33:18 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
23:33:31 <loquacities> hi JRobinson__
23:33:34 <loquacities> hi katomo
23:33:37 <loquacities> who else is here?
23:33:44 <dnavale> hi loquacities
23:33:49 <furface> hey
23:33:54 <loquacities> adahms mentioned he might be a bit late
23:33:59 <loquacities> heya dnavale and furface :)
23:34:10 <loquacities> thanks for coming early :)
23:34:20 <adahms> Morning!
23:34:23 <adahms> I am here :)
23:34:27 <loquacities> morning adahms you made it :)
23:34:56 <darrenc> me too
23:35:00 <loquacities> heya darrenc
23:35:28 <Sam-I-Am> howdy
23:35:34 <loquacities> hiya
23:35:40 <loquacities> ok, let's get started ...
23:35:50 <loquacities> #topic Action items from the last meeting
23:36:15 <loquacities> from the last APAC meeting: loquacities to investigate if an ops guide RST conversion is feasible, and report back to the ops guide team
23:36:43 <loquacities> i did so, and we decided to consider this for mitaka instead
23:36:51 <loquacities> from the last US meeting:
23:36:56 <loquacities> loquacities to circle back on third-party content
23:37:06 <loquacities> i'd like to discuss that further today, if we can
23:37:12 <loquacities> Shilla to e-mail Lana summarizing the solutions for the third-party content
23:37:21 <loquacities> i don't think i got that email, but it's ok
23:37:30 <loquacities> and finally: Shilla to find out how spotlight bugs are chose
23:37:57 <loquacities> i can tell you how that works: basically i sort the bugs by age and pick the oldest ones that aren't owned by anybody
23:38:15 <loquacities> if they are owned i try and work out if they're being actively worked on, and if not, they're also in the list
23:38:24 <Sam-I-Am> makes sense
23:38:35 <loquacities> i'm also keeping track of every spotlight bug and its resolution and who closed it
23:38:52 <loquacities> i'm also chatting to foundation about trying to get some incentives in place to help this along
23:39:06 <bmoss> swag!
23:39:22 <furface> swag!
23:39:26 <darrenc> A virtual pat on the back
23:39:36 <loquacities> if you think a particular bug *should* be spotlighted, you can let me know directly, or by adding it to my newsletter content: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/WhatsUpDoc#Your_suggestions_for_content
23:39:39 <Sam-I-Am> less organ failure
23:39:39 <bmoss> "I kill old bugs" t-shirt
23:39:44 <loquacities> yeah, swag is most likely ;)
23:39:56 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: can't help you with the organ failure, sorry :P
23:40:30 <Sam-I-Am> loquacities: the liver is next
23:40:32 <loquacities> OK, let's look at the specs ...
23:40:41 <loquacities> Sam-I-Am: haha, i'm surprised it's still working!
23:40:49 <loquacities> #topic Liberty specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z
23:40:54 <Sam-I-Am> loquacities: after this week, i'm not so sure
23:41:05 <loquacities> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191077/ (Install Guide Liberty update - WIP)
23:41:15 <loquacities> this one is marked as WIP until the RST conversion is done
23:41:23 <loquacities> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197976/ (Contributor/Style Guide)
23:41:32 <Sam-I-Am> yep, and probably until we know of any other major changes for liberty
23:41:42 <loquacities> if you have feels about a separate contributor/style guide in our repo, then make sure you weeigh in on that one
23:41:46 <loquacities> weigh*
23:41:56 <loquacities> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191041/ (Third Party driver docs - requires discussion)
23:42:03 <loquacities> this is the one we probably need to chat about
23:42:42 <loquacities> tbh, i'm *really* against the idea of having third party content in our docs
23:42:51 <loquacities> especially proprietary third party content
23:42:53 * Sam-I-Am was still looking at the last one
23:43:00 <loquacities> oh, sorry!
23:43:03 <Sam-I-Am> now, for 3rd party...
23:44:01 <Sam-I-Am> i think we need to chuck 3rd party stuff for the following reasons
23:44:10 <Sam-I-Am> particularly proprietary/pay stuff
23:44:15 <loquacities> +1
23:44:23 <Sam-I-Am> vendors dump stuff there once and dont maintain it
23:44:49 <Sam-I-Am> the docs team already has trouble keeping up with core openstack docimpacts, so we dont need additional ones to worry about
23:45:02 <Sam-I-Am> and there's no way for us to validate the content
23:45:17 <bmoss> +1s to those points
23:45:17 <Sam-I-Am> like... what happens during release cycles (that may be different than openstack)
23:45:34 <Sam-I-Am> if you're a company that sells something for openstack, you can spend money on resources for the documentation
23:45:50 <loquacities> ok, so the spec atm says that vendors can include docs for their driver in the config ref if they agree to maintain it
23:45:55 <loquacities> i think that's the bit i mostly don't like
23:46:18 <Sam-I-Am> i'd chuck them all, frankly, but for some reason config reference stuck around
23:46:36 <loquacities> who would push back if we ditched config ref, do you think?
23:46:54 <Sam-I-Am> not sure, there's a reason its in there, but we can take it out.
23:47:11 <loquacities> i think i would prefer that
23:47:25 <Sam-I-Am> at least with neutron, there's some concern about what one considers worthy of documenting within openstack
23:47:46 <loquacities> yeah
23:47:59 <bmoss> the spec mentions that the original idea was to have only minimal docs for all drivers, but some vendors rejected this as they do not have docs of their own.
23:48:00 <Sam-I-Am> there's probably 'free open source
23:48:02 <Sam-I-Am> err
23:48:17 <Sam-I-Am> there's probably 'free open source' things with happy licensing that dont have a home for docs, but i still dont think that makes us responsible
23:48:17 <bmoss> not sure who those vendors are
23:48:24 <Sam-I-Am> its no hard to make a docs thing in github
23:48:25 <loquacities> i don't mind documenting them if they're open source
23:48:50 <loquacities> vendors can throw up their own docs, though
23:48:55 <Sam-I-Am> bmoss: i dont know why vendors wouldnt have their own docs for something they sell
23:49:08 <loquacities> if they're making money off it, they don't need our charity
23:49:12 <loquacities> ok, let's move on
23:49:14 <Sam-I-Am> seems like theyre leveraging free work
23:49:23 <loquacities> #topic Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams
23:49:28 <bmoss> oh, I agree with you both, I was just mentioning what it says in the spec.
23:49:31 <loquacities> #info HA Guide - RST migration complete, need help with updating content.
23:49:46 <loquacities> anyone with time to spare, the HA guide team could really use your help
23:50:03 <loquacities> #info Install Guides - Conversion sprint this week! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Installation_guide_conversion_from_DocBook_to_RST Sign up for conversion here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Installation_Guide_Migration
23:50:36 <loquacities> the sprint is running over 48 hours, so there's plenty of opportunity for APAC people to get involved
23:50:47 <loquacities> we also have more APAC-timed docs cores now, to try and speed things along
23:50:50 <Sam-I-Am> and it looks like a lot of work has already been done
23:51:05 <loquacities> yeah, it should be easy to get involved
23:51:09 <loquacities> #info Networking Guide - Test & review for Liberty updates.
23:51:13 <Sam-I-Am> does everyone have the link to the draft docs?
23:51:26 <Sam-I-Am> http://docs.openstack.org/draft/draft-index.html
23:51:31 <Sam-I-Am> thats a good way to see whats missing
23:51:37 <loquacities> cool, thanks Sam-I-Am
23:51:41 <Sam-I-Am> rather than picking through patches
23:51:49 <loquacities> #info Security Guide - RST conversion started, sign up here: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sec-guide-rst
23:51:57 <loquacities> #info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST conversion nearly done! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Cloud_Admin_Guide_Migration
23:52:24 <loquacities> #info Ops/Arch Guides - Ops Guide conversion targeted for Mitaka. #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/OpsGuide
23:52:29 <Sam-I-Am> i have some updates for the networking guide
23:52:35 <loquacities> ooh, do share
23:53:06 <Sam-I-Am> i noticed neutron devs tossing seemingly ops/user docs into their devref repo rather than the networking guide (or other guides) and asked why
23:53:14 <Sam-I-Am> the networking guide is rst, so no excuse there
23:53:33 <Sam-I-Am> there's still the docs review process, but we're not picky with the networking guide
23:53:33 <loquacities> what did they say?
23:53:37 <Sam-I-Am> they seem to agree
23:53:41 <loquacities> oh, cool
23:53:48 <loquacities> hopefully we can get some change there
23:54:00 <Sam-I-Am> however, there's potentially a ton of content in the devref repo that needs to be audited and moved/copied/linked to the networking guide
23:54:05 <Sam-I-Am> some of it is probably defunct too
23:54:10 <loquacities> *sigh*
23:54:15 <loquacities> so we need an audit, then
23:54:20 <Sam-I-Am> shitty thing is... the devref and wiki come up first in google searches for neutron
23:54:29 <Sam-I-Am> which i bought up on the list today
23:54:39 <loquacities> oh yeah, i saw that
23:54:43 <Sam-I-Am> not sure why we can't get our google searches right
23:54:49 <Sam-I-Am> its been like this for as long as i've been around
23:54:51 <loquacities> i'm not an SEO expert
23:54:57 <Sam-I-Am> however, my main concern is the networking guide shows up *nowhere*
23:55:03 <Sam-I-Am> so unless you go to docs.o.o, you dont find it
23:55:10 <loquacities> anne pointed to a patch that's supposed to help
23:55:13 <Sam-I-Am> instead, you find stuff thats not going to help
23:55:14 <Sam-I-Am> yeah
23:55:42 <Sam-I-Am> so, guess who got picked to do the devref audit
23:55:48 <loquacities> lol
23:56:01 <loquacities> #info API docs - Spec is now merged! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/API
23:56:09 <loquacities> #info Config Ref - New speciality team! Thanks Guavain #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/ConfigRef
23:56:22 <loquacities> ok, is that all for speciality teams?
23:56:48 <loquacities> #topic Doc tools update
23:56:52 <loquacities> just FYI really
23:56:57 <loquacities> #info openstackdocstheme 1.1.0 released: Release notes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-June/000392.html
23:57:08 <loquacities> #info Stable/Icehouse branch is now EOL
23:57:11 <Sam-I-Am> yay
23:57:15 <loquacities> indeed :)
23:57:28 <loquacities> #topic APAC Meetups
23:57:36 <loquacities> #info Reminder: APAC Docs Swarm on 13-14 August, ping Suyog
23:57:36 <JRobinson__> #info re: Speciality Teams - the User Guide cloud admin conversion is almost done
23:57:43 <loquacities> i'm busy working on getting swag for the swarm, too
23:57:53 <loquacities> JRobinson__: noted!
23:58:08 <bmoss> each contributor gets a bee hive
23:58:18 <bmoss> ecological swag
23:58:26 <loquacities> bmoss: i think you need to work on your swag ideas ... :P
23:58:27 <Sam-I-Am> bmoss: the hair cut?
23:58:38 <loquacities> ok, finally, here's our spotlight bugs for this week ...
23:58:43 <loquacities> #topic Spotlight bugs
23:58:49 <loquacities> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241116 Using policies for protected properties
23:58:51 <openstack> Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals " Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged]
23:58:52 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged]
23:58:53 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241116
23:58:57 <loquacities> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241179 Add notifications for groups and roles
23:58:58 <openstack> Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals " Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed]
23:58:59 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed]
23:59:00 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241179
23:59:04 <loquacities> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1251060 Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2
23:59:04 <openstack> Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals " Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged]
23:59:05 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged]
23:59:06 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251060
23:59:21 <loquacities> the bot is having a moment
23:59:32 <bmoss> in quadruplicate!
23:59:38 <loquacities> #topic Open discussion
23:59:43 <loquacities> anything else, anyone?
23:59:53 <loquacities> sorry for racing through things so fast: places to go, people to see
23:59:59 <Sam-I-Am> it is light speed
00:00:18 <loquacities> indeed
00:00:34 <JRobinson__> #info the "weighter" discussion appeared in the mailing list, with further clarification on verb and noun forms.
00:00:42 <loquacities> oh, yeah
00:00:53 <Sam-I-Am> i really dont get that
00:01:00 <loquacities> i know i've had this discussion before, and i'm really trying to remember where so i can look up the resolution
00:01:04 <Sam-I-Am> in all other technical stuff its called 'weight'
00:01:11 <loquacities> but, really, the easiest thing is to stick with what's in the code
00:01:21 <Sam-I-Am> and you work the wording so it does not use 'weighter'
00:01:28 <loquacities> i'm fairly certain 'weighter' is the most common
00:01:39 <JRobinson__> Sam-I-Am, The sentence construction can work around the word use, that's right.
00:01:41 <Sam-I-Am> well, not in networking circles at least
00:02:06 <Sam-I-Am> but whatev, no big deal, as long as its a real word
00:02:08 <Sam-I-Am> and used properly
00:02:22 <JRobinson__> It's worth bringing up as a style point.
00:02:52 <loquacities> i agree
00:03:08 <loquacities> ok, if that's everything, i'm going to close the meeting ...
00:03:18 <loquacities> thanks for coming everyone :)
00:03:20 <Sam-I-Am> yarp
00:03:29 <bmoss> merci beaucoup!
00:03:38 <loquacities> #endmeeting