23:33:13 #startmeeting docteam 23:33:14 Meeting started Tue Jul 21 23:33:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:33:16 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 23:33:18 The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' 23:33:31 hi JRobinson__ 23:33:34 hi katomo 23:33:37 who else is here? 23:33:44 hi loquacities 23:33:49 hey 23:33:54 adahms mentioned he might be a bit late 23:33:59 heya dnavale and furface :) 23:34:10 thanks for coming early :) 23:34:20 Morning! 23:34:23 I am here :) 23:34:27 morning adahms you made it :) 23:34:56 me too 23:35:00 heya darrenc 23:35:28 howdy 23:35:34 hiya 23:35:40 ok, let's get started ... 23:35:50 #topic Action items from the last meeting 23:36:15 from the last APAC meeting: loquacities to investigate if an ops guide RST conversion is feasible, and report back to the ops guide team 23:36:43 i did so, and we decided to consider this for mitaka instead 23:36:51 from the last US meeting: 23:36:56 loquacities to circle back on third-party content 23:37:06 i'd like to discuss that further today, if we can 23:37:12 Shilla to e-mail Lana summarizing the solutions for the third-party content 23:37:21 i don't think i got that email, but it's ok 23:37:30 and finally: Shilla to find out how spotlight bugs are chose 23:37:57 i can tell you how that works: basically i sort the bugs by age and pick the oldest ones that aren't owned by anybody 23:38:15 if they are owned i try and work out if they're being actively worked on, and if not, they're also in the list 23:38:24 makes sense 23:38:35 i'm also keeping track of every spotlight bug and its resolution and who closed it 23:38:52 i'm also chatting to foundation about trying to get some incentives in place to help this along 23:39:06 swag! 23:39:22 swag! 23:39:26 A virtual pat on the back 23:39:36 if you think a particular bug *should* be spotlighted, you can let me know directly, or by adding it to my newsletter content: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/WhatsUpDoc#Your_suggestions_for_content 23:39:39 less organ failure 23:39:39 "I kill old bugs" t-shirt 23:39:44 yeah, swag is most likely ;) 23:39:56 Sam-I-Am: can't help you with the organ failure, sorry :P 23:40:30 loquacities: the liver is next 23:40:32 OK, let's look at the specs ... 23:40:41 Sam-I-Am: haha, i'm surprised it's still working! 23:40:49 #topic Liberty specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z 23:40:54 loquacities: after this week, i'm not so sure 23:41:05 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191077/ (Install Guide Liberty update - WIP) 23:41:15 this one is marked as WIP until the RST conversion is done 23:41:23 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197976/ (Contributor/Style Guide) 23:41:32 yep, and probably until we know of any other major changes for liberty 23:41:42 if you have feels about a separate contributor/style guide in our repo, then make sure you weeigh in on that one 23:41:46 weigh* 23:41:56 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191041/ (Third Party driver docs - requires discussion) 23:42:03 this is the one we probably need to chat about 23:42:42 tbh, i'm *really* against the idea of having third party content in our docs 23:42:51 especially proprietary third party content 23:42:53 * Sam-I-Am was still looking at the last one 23:43:00 oh, sorry! 23:43:03 now, for 3rd party... 23:44:01 i think we need to chuck 3rd party stuff for the following reasons 23:44:10 particularly proprietary/pay stuff 23:44:15 +1 23:44:23 vendors dump stuff there once and dont maintain it 23:44:49 the docs team already has trouble keeping up with core openstack docimpacts, so we dont need additional ones to worry about 23:45:02 and there's no way for us to validate the content 23:45:17 +1s to those points 23:45:17 like... what happens during release cycles (that may be different than openstack) 23:45:34 if you're a company that sells something for openstack, you can spend money on resources for the documentation 23:45:50 ok, so the spec atm says that vendors can include docs for their driver in the config ref if they agree to maintain it 23:45:55 i think that's the bit i mostly don't like 23:46:18 i'd chuck them all, frankly, but for some reason config reference stuck around 23:46:36 who would push back if we ditched config ref, do you think? 23:46:54 not sure, there's a reason its in there, but we can take it out. 23:47:11 i think i would prefer that 23:47:25 at least with neutron, there's some concern about what one considers worthy of documenting within openstack 23:47:46 yeah 23:47:59 the spec mentions that the original idea was to have only minimal docs for all drivers, but some vendors rejected this as they do not have docs of their own. 23:48:00 there's probably 'free open source 23:48:02 err 23:48:17 there's probably 'free open source' things with happy licensing that dont have a home for docs, but i still dont think that makes us responsible 23:48:17 not sure who those vendors are 23:48:24 its no hard to make a docs thing in github 23:48:25 i don't mind documenting them if they're open source 23:48:50 vendors can throw up their own docs, though 23:48:55 bmoss: i dont know why vendors wouldnt have their own docs for something they sell 23:49:08 if they're making money off it, they don't need our charity 23:49:12 ok, let's move on 23:49:14 seems like theyre leveraging free work 23:49:23 #topic Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams 23:49:28 oh, I agree with you both, I was just mentioning what it says in the spec. 23:49:31 #info HA Guide - RST migration complete, need help with updating content. 23:49:46 anyone with time to spare, the HA guide team could really use your help 23:50:03 #info Install Guides - Conversion sprint this week! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Installation_guide_conversion_from_DocBook_to_RST Sign up for conversion here #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Installation_Guide_Migration 23:50:36 the sprint is running over 48 hours, so there's plenty of opportunity for APAC people to get involved 23:50:47 we also have more APAC-timed docs cores now, to try and speed things along 23:50:50 and it looks like a lot of work has already been done 23:51:05 yeah, it should be easy to get involved 23:51:09 #info Networking Guide - Test & review for Liberty updates. 23:51:13 does everyone have the link to the draft docs? 23:51:26 http://docs.openstack.org/draft/draft-index.html 23:51:31 thats a good way to see whats missing 23:51:37 cool, thanks Sam-I-Am 23:51:41 rather than picking through patches 23:51:49 #info Security Guide - RST conversion started, sign up here: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sec-guide-rst 23:51:57 #info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST conversion nearly done! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Cloud_Admin_Guide_Migration 23:52:24 #info Ops/Arch Guides - Ops Guide conversion targeted for Mitaka. #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/OpsGuide 23:52:29 i have some updates for the networking guide 23:52:35 ooh, do share 23:53:06 i noticed neutron devs tossing seemingly ops/user docs into their devref repo rather than the networking guide (or other guides) and asked why 23:53:14 the networking guide is rst, so no excuse there 23:53:33 there's still the docs review process, but we're not picky with the networking guide 23:53:33 what did they say? 23:53:37 they seem to agree 23:53:41 oh, cool 23:53:48 hopefully we can get some change there 23:54:00 however, there's potentially a ton of content in the devref repo that needs to be audited and moved/copied/linked to the networking guide 23:54:05 some of it is probably defunct too 23:54:10 *sigh* 23:54:15 so we need an audit, then 23:54:20 shitty thing is... the devref and wiki come up first in google searches for neutron 23:54:29 which i bought up on the list today 23:54:39 oh yeah, i saw that 23:54:43 not sure why we can't get our google searches right 23:54:49 its been like this for as long as i've been around 23:54:51 i'm not an SEO expert 23:54:57 however, my main concern is the networking guide shows up *nowhere* 23:55:03 so unless you go to docs.o.o, you dont find it 23:55:10 anne pointed to a patch that's supposed to help 23:55:13 instead, you find stuff thats not going to help 23:55:14 yeah 23:55:42 so, guess who got picked to do the devref audit 23:55:48 lol 23:56:01 #info API docs - Spec is now merged! #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/API 23:56:09 #info Config Ref - New speciality team! Thanks Guavain #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/ConfigRef 23:56:22 ok, is that all for speciality teams? 23:56:48 #topic Doc tools update 23:56:52 just FYI really 23:56:57 #info openstackdocstheme 1.1.0 released: Release notes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-June/000392.html 23:57:08 #info Stable/Icehouse branch is now EOL 23:57:11 yay 23:57:15 indeed :) 23:57:28 #topic APAC Meetups 23:57:36 #info Reminder: APAC Docs Swarm on 13-14 August, ping Suyog 23:57:36 #info re: Speciality Teams - the User Guide cloud admin conversion is almost done 23:57:43 i'm busy working on getting swag for the swarm, too 23:57:53 JRobinson__: noted! 23:58:08 each contributor gets a bee hive 23:58:18 ecological swag 23:58:26 bmoss: i think you need to work on your swag ideas ... :P 23:58:27 bmoss: the hair cut? 23:58:38 ok, finally, here's our spotlight bugs for this week ... 23:58:43 #topic Spotlight bugs 23:58:49 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241116 Using policies for protected properties 23:58:51 Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals " Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] 23:58:52 Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] 23:58:53 Launchpad bug 1241116 in openstack-manuals "Using policies for protected properties" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241116 23:58:57 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1241179 Add notifications for groups and roles 23:58:58 Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals " Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] 23:58:59 Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] 23:59:00 Launchpad bug 1241179 in openstack-manuals "Add notifications for groups and roles" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241179 23:59:04 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1251060 Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2 23:59:04 Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals " Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] 23:59:05 Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] 23:59:06 Launchpad bug 1251060 in openstack-manuals "Xenapi: Allow windows builds with xentools 6.1 and 6.2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251060 23:59:21 the bot is having a moment 23:59:32 in quadruplicate! 23:59:38 #topic Open discussion 23:59:43 anything else, anyone? 23:59:53 sorry for racing through things so fast: places to go, people to see 23:59:59 it is light speed 00:00:18 indeed 00:00:34 #info the "weighter" discussion appeared in the mailing list, with further clarification on verb and noun forms. 00:00:42 oh, yeah 00:00:53 i really dont get that 00:01:00 i know i've had this discussion before, and i'm really trying to remember where so i can look up the resolution 00:01:04 in all other technical stuff its called 'weight' 00:01:11 but, really, the easiest thing is to stick with what's in the code 00:01:21 and you work the wording so it does not use 'weighter' 00:01:28 i'm fairly certain 'weighter' is the most common 00:01:39 Sam-I-Am, The sentence construction can work around the word use, that's right. 00:01:41 well, not in networking circles at least 00:02:06 but whatev, no big deal, as long as its a real word 00:02:08 and used properly 00:02:22 It's worth bringing up as a style point. 00:02:52 i agree 00:03:08 ok, if that's everything, i'm going to close the meeting ... 00:03:18 thanks for coming everyone :) 00:03:20 yarp 00:03:29 merci beaucoup! 00:03:38 #endmeeting