19:05:27 <DevonBoatwright> #startmeeting docteam
19:05:28 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jul  6 19:05:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is DevonBoatwright. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:05:29 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:05:31 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
19:05:58 <Sam-I-Am> yay
19:06:06 <strigazi> Is there an agenda?
19:06:06 <rcaballeromx> Hello everyone.
19:06:38 <DevonBoatwright> Yes...
19:06:57 <DevonBoatwright> #topic action items from last meeting
19:07:34 <DevonBoatwright> Do we have anything to revisit from the last meeting?
19:08:36 <Sam-I-Am> probably have to look at the meeting log if no one wrote them down in the agenda
19:08:55 <DevonBoatwright> I am looking at it right now. Playing catch up. heh
19:09:42 <njohnston> o/
19:10:02 <DevonBoatwright> So it kind of looks like this is the same agenda from last meeting
19:10:30 <DevonBoatwright> Yep. It's the same agenda. How should we proceed
19:10:55 <vhoward> hey nate
19:11:16 <ShillaSaebi> hi guys
19:11:18 <ShillaSaebi> sorry im late
19:11:26 <Sam-I-Am> hi
19:11:31 <ShillaSaebi> hda another meeting that was overlapping with this one, that happened to end early :)
19:11:31 <rcaballeromx> Hi
19:11:36 <DevonBoatwright> So, Shilla, the agenda has not been updated?
19:11:44 <DevonBoatwright> IT's the same meeting agenda as last week
19:11:52 <ShillaSaebi> theres an APAC meeting which was last week
19:11:58 <ShillaSaebi> this is the US version
19:12:03 <ShillaSaebi> we meet bi-weekly
19:12:15 <ShillaSaebi> same agenda typically for both meetings
19:12:51 <ShillaSaebi> #topic Action items from the last meeting
19:12:55 <DevonBoatwright> ok. Well, the topic right now is action items from the last meeting
19:12:58 <DevonBoatwright> Yea.
19:13:33 <ShillaSaebi> there were no action items from the last meeting
19:13:40 <ShillaSaebi> unless i am missing anything
19:14:21 <ShillaSaebi> from the APAC meeting, Lana was to e-mail CPLs about install guide participation
19:14:24 <ShillaSaebi> that was done
19:14:28 <ShillaSaebi> I am not sure how the outcome went
19:14:44 <Sam-I-Am> heh, that'll be interesting
19:15:00 <ShillaSaebi> :)
19:15:24 <ShillaSaebi> ok #topic Specs in review
19:15:28 <ShillaSaebi> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z
19:16:14 <rcaballeromx> Any questions regarding the UI guidelines spec?
19:16:54 <ShillaSaebi> not fro mme
19:16:56 <ShillaSaebi> not from me*
19:17:02 <rcaballeromx> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/337202/5/specs/newton/ui-guidelines.rst
19:17:18 <rcaballeromx> Alexandra and I are working on it.
19:17:37 <rcaballeromx> If you have any suggestions please let us know.
19:17:59 <ShillaSaebi> ok will do
19:18:01 <ShillaSaebi> thank yo u!
19:18:10 <rcaballeromx> NP
19:18:17 <ShillaSaebi> #topic Speciality teams
19:18:21 <ShillaSaebi> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Speciality_Team_Reports
19:18:42 <ShillaSaebi> please take a look at the specialty team reports
19:18:45 <Sam-I-Am> nothing much from networking. i was on vacation for 2 weeks.
19:18:52 <ShillaSaebi> if you lead/organize one of the specialty teams, feel free to update here
19:18:54 <Sam-I-Am> trying to get caught up... and its not too much fun
19:18:59 <ShillaSaebi> i can imagine
19:19:02 <ShillaSaebi> you must have a million emials
19:19:13 <ShillaSaebi> emails* gah whats wrong with my spelling today, typing too fast i guess
19:19:19 <Sam-I-Am> yeah, close to a million
19:19:26 <Sam-I-Am> i'm at #7
19:19:27 <ShillaSaebi> i can imagine
19:19:31 <ShillaSaebi> good luck catching up
19:19:35 <ShillaSaebi> that sounds like fun!
19:19:54 <ShillaSaebi> on the operations/arch guide front, we are looking for more architects and operators to help with these guides
19:19:59 <ShillaSaebi> we've tried the ML
19:20:12 <DevonBoatwright> We've joined a couple teams to try to recruit but not much luck on that front
19:20:23 <rcaballeromx> The UX personas content should be complete by EoW. I was interrupted by a higher priority but that is done now.
19:20:29 <ShillaSaebi> we are not having members of thespecialty team join various operator meetings to try to get some help
19:20:36 <ShillaSaebi> cool
19:20:45 <DevonBoatwright> not.. or now?
19:21:18 * njohnston echoes DevonBoatwright's question
19:22:22 <Sam-I-Am> i'd bet now
19:22:27 <DevonBoatwright> I think she means we are now joining meetings.. because we have joined meetings. lol
19:22:46 <ShillaSaebi> was that question directed for me
19:22:51 <rcaballeromx> Yes.
19:22:53 <DevonBoatwright> YEa
19:23:02 <ShillaSaebi> oh sorry, now
19:23:06 <DevonBoatwright> lol. :)
19:23:31 <ShillaSaebi> #topic Countdown to release
19:23:43 <ShillaSaebi> ◦ #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20161006T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Newton+Launch+Date&font=slab
19:23:52 <ShillaSaebi> 91 days
19:24:10 <ShillaSaebi> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/NewtonDeliverables
19:25:23 <ShillaSaebi> anything on that?
19:25:30 <Sam-I-Am> not here
19:25:34 <rcaballeromx> ditto
19:25:54 <ShillaSaebi> mmkay
19:26:09 <ShillaSaebi> #topic Open discussion
19:26:20 <ShillaSaebi> Forgot to ask what happened with the HA-Guide M
19:26:24 <ShillaSaebi> e-mail you sent out?
19:26:35 <ShillaSaebi> @Sam-I-Am
19:26:50 <ShillaSaebi> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2016-June/008733.html
19:27:11 * Sam-I-Am looks
19:27:32 <Sam-I-Am> no one responded to it
19:28:21 <ShillaSaebi> yeah and i noticed the last time the specialty team update was provided was back in March
19:28:24 <ShillaSaebi> it's been a while
19:28:42 <rcaballeromx> Can we discuss switching from 'code-block:: console' to 'prompt:: bash #' ?
19:29:36 <Sam-I-Am> maybe...
19:29:42 <ShillaSaebi> sure let me just provide a quick update back on the HA-guide topic
19:30:06 <ShillaSaebi> at the APAC meeting, after looking at the logs again, it looks like Lana was to ask Bogdan about killing the HA guide
19:30:15 <ShillaSaebi> and then maybe incorporating it into the ops guide
19:30:33 <ShillaSaebi> "in the meantime, we might do what Matt said and mark it as deprecated"
19:30:54 <ShillaSaebi> so thats a start
19:31:15 <Sam-I-Am> cool
19:31:31 <ShillaSaebi> ok so switching from 'code-block:: console' to 'prompt:: bash #' ?
19:32:05 <rcaballeromx> I really like the way promp works but it does involve a ton of work.
19:32:30 <rcaballeromx> Any thoughts?
19:32:32 <ShillaSaebi> i would recommend starting a thread on the docs ML on this
19:32:38 <rcaballeromx> There is.
19:32:55 <Sam-I-Am> isnt there a discussion thread now?
19:33:06 <ShillaSaebi> oh can you send me the link
19:33:09 <ShillaSaebi> i must have missed that one
19:33:09 <rcaballeromx> Better way to display shell commands
19:33:18 <ShillaSaebi> what was most of the consensus
19:33:42 * rcaballeromx looking for the link...
19:34:50 <rcaballeromx> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2016-July/008808.html
19:34:52 <Sam-I-Am> pranav gave a reason for not using it (yet)
19:35:00 <Sam-I-Am> but other than that, it seems like a good idea
19:36:11 <rcaballeromx> I agree with Pranav. The change is more convinient than necessary.
19:36:25 <rcaballeromx> I am just doubtful that it is the best use of our time.
19:37:21 <ShillaSaebi> my only concern would be installing the extension
19:37:27 <ShillaSaebi> i haven't caught up on all the emials yet though
19:37:40 <ShillaSaebi> but if we have that part down then i am not opposed to it at alll
19:37:48 <ShillaSaebi> right like if its low prio
19:38:03 <Sam-I-Am> there are definitely higher prio items
19:38:44 <rcaballeromx> I see we are all of a similar opinion then.
19:39:07 <rcaballeromx> Thank you!
19:39:15 <ShillaSaebi> yeah i mean if we have the time/resources that are willing to help then i don't have a prob w/it
19:39:19 <ShillaSaebi> :)
19:39:20 <ShillaSaebi> yep
19:39:57 <ShillaSaebi> anything else anyone wants to bring up?
19:40:52 <ShillaSaebi> going once
19:40:55 <ShillaSaebi> going twice
19:40:58 <Sam-I-Am> well
19:41:01 <Sam-I-Am> sort of
19:41:05 <ShillaSaebi> go for it
19:41:45 <Sam-I-Am> some meetings ago, i brought up the fact that we're seeing fewer and fewer docs contributions from projects... and the big tent isnt exactly helping
19:42:09 <strigazi> some do :)
19:42:16 <Sam-I-Am> well, yeah :)
19:42:21 <Sam-I-Am> but many dont. most don't.
19:42:28 <dustins> And some wait until the very end of a cycle
19:42:36 <dustins> (not that it's right, mind you :) )
19:42:58 <rosmaita> a lot of docs have been moved in-tree to the projects, though
19:43:01 <Sam-I-Am> some smaller projects lack the resources... but i'm mainly concerned about the large, long-standing projects
19:43:30 <rcaballeromx> Are specific docs people assigned to each project?
19:43:31 <Sam-I-Am> rosmaita: yeah, that might help further reduce the barriers to contributions
19:43:48 <Sam-I-Am> no, there arent enough docs people to do 1:1
19:44:02 <rcaballeromx> I meant for the 13 core projects.
19:44:44 <Sam-I-Am> so thats sort of what i have in mind... move more docs into the project repos, and then provide services for those projects either helping review docs, or going in and fixing them.... then we use docs.openstack.org as a way to tie them all together into something coherent
19:45:04 <rcaballeromx> I fully agree!
19:45:13 <strigazi> +1
19:45:20 <Sam-I-Am> it would sort of be an opt in/out thing, but it does not allow 'no docs'
19:45:24 <Sam-I-Am> which seems to be the problem now
19:45:29 <rcaballeromx> They could rally devs and enforce quality and consistency of content.
19:45:49 <rosmaita> +1
19:45:55 <Sam-I-Am> i think we'll have a lot more consistency/quality maintenance to do... it depends on the project, the dev, etc.
19:46:09 <Sam-I-Am> a lot of stuff in the devrefs is... bad.
19:46:27 <rcaballeromx> We should also create clear guidelines of what is acceptable vs. what's not.
19:46:48 <rcaballeromx> You can count me in on that effort.
19:46:52 <Sam-I-Am> unfortunately, i think all of our conventions scare a lot of devs away
19:47:18 <rcaballeromx> They would not have to deal with them. The doc person of the project would.
19:47:20 <Sam-I-Am> so it would be more like devs contributing technically accurate content, then either going the extra mile to make it look nice, or asking docs to help
19:48:10 <Sam-I-Am> i brought this up with the nova ptl and he'd like to bring it up at his mid-cycle... sort of test the waters
19:48:21 <rcaballeromx> +1
19:48:40 <Sam-I-Am> we might also want to get sean dague on board when he returns... someone who is generally good at pushing new ideas
19:49:01 <rcaballeromx> We can provide devs with templates, and try to avoid flooding them with conventions.
19:49:14 <Sam-I-Am> yeah, stuff like that is where we'd really fit in
19:49:28 <Sam-I-Am> seems like the api ref movement to project repos is getting a lot of attention
19:49:45 <rosmaita> well, speaking for glance, that would be really helpful (templates and reviews)
19:50:05 <rosmaita> the api-ref will need a good look-over for consistency with other projects
19:50:18 <rcaballeromx> IMO we should not be creating the content, just reviewing it and providing devs with tools for them to create it.
19:50:26 <Sam-I-Am> ^ this
19:50:39 <Sam-I-Am> openstack has gotten too big for the docs team to write content
19:50:48 <Sam-I-Am> unless we also happen to be involved with a project (like me and neutron)
19:51:14 <rcaballeromx> Even then I bet it is very challenging and a lot of work.
19:51:22 <Sam-I-Am> so... dev contributes content, tags some sort of docs liaison in the review (or the docs team tracks patches with some sort of tag in the commit message) .... go.
19:51:47 <rcaballeromx> Devs should tag the project's doc maintainer.
19:51:55 <Sam-I-Am> i'll probably throw something on the dev ML here in a couple days
19:52:00 <Sam-I-Am> fire up some discussion
19:52:11 <Sam-I-Am> just figured i'd toss it out here
19:52:15 <Sam-I-Am> (so maybe i'm not nuts)_
19:52:22 <rcaballeromx> Copy me, please.
19:52:35 <Sam-I-Am> rcaballeromx: are you on the dev ml?
19:52:48 <rcaballeromx> I can be in a minute. :)
19:53:04 <Sam-I-Am> cool. it'll be a couple days before i fire it off - still buried from vacation
19:53:10 <Sam-I-Am> thats it from me!
19:53:46 * rcaballeromx has nothing more to add.
19:54:24 <DevonBoatwright> Anything else ot bring up?
19:54:45 <rosmaita> is there any kind of style guide specificlly for the api-ref ?
19:55:06 <rosmaita> i know some people are developing sphinx stanzas for it, was wondering where that's being tracked
19:56:13 <DevonBoatwright> Does anyone know? I'm not sure.
19:56:14 <Sam-I-Am> yeah, there is somewhere
19:56:19 <Sam-I-Am> you might want to ask anne gentle
19:56:29 <rosmaita> ok, thanks
19:56:31 <Sam-I-Am> she's sort of been heading it up
19:56:45 <Sam-I-Am> there's also a few projects implementing it like keystone, so check with steve martinelli
19:56:53 <Sam-I-Am> i think neutron is too... and nova.
19:57:00 <Sam-I-Am> sean dague might also be good
19:58:00 <DevonBoatwright> So we have 3 more minutes...
19:58:03 <Sam-I-Am> aight, i gotta roll
19:58:10 <rcaballeromx> Me too.
19:58:10 <Sam-I-Am> good meeting, nice seeing more people here
19:58:16 <DevonBoatwright> OK. I think we'll wrap up then. Thanks for joining today everyone!
19:58:23 <DevonBoatwright> Def a productive meeting.
19:58:28 <DevonBoatwright> See you all next time!
19:58:31 <DevonBoatwright> #endmeeting