16:00:52 <asettle> #startmeeting docteam
16:00:54 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug 10 16:00:52 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asettle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:55 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:58 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
16:01:00 <jungleboyj> @!
16:01:01 <_pewp_> jungleboyj \(-_- )
16:01:09 <asettle> Ola o/
16:01:12 <ianychoi> o/
16:01:20 <skelso> o/
16:01:27 <amotoki> o/
16:01:32 <asettle> As usual, will wait until 5 past for all to trickle in :)
16:01:37 <asettle> Agenda
16:01:38 <asettle> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting
16:01:57 <jungleboyj> :-)  Darn stragglers.
16:02:02 <mlavalle> o/
16:02:02 <bsilverman_> o/
16:02:12 <asettle> jungleboyj: always the way!
16:03:56 <krtaylor> o/
16:04:45 <asettle> Okay so! Just before the last minute clocks over
16:04:52 <asettle> Exciting - we haven't had a meeting in *ages*
16:04:55 <asettle> Thanks all for coming in
16:04:58 * mlavalle waves at krtaylor
16:05:13 * krtaylor waves back to mlavalle
16:05:18 <asettle> I'm going to go through all the generic stuff hopefully fairly quickly. Then leave time at the end for anyone to discuss any concerns questions etc they may have
16:05:26 <asettle> I know lots are here for migration reasons :)
16:05:28 <asettle> Okay!
16:05:32 <asettle> #topic Action items from the last meeting
16:05:35 <asettle> TROLOLOL
16:05:36 <asettle> Moving on
16:05:44 <asettle> #topic Doc PTL voting!
16:05:58 <asettle> For the first time in doc team history (more or less) we have two great candidates to lead our team!
16:05:59 <jungleboyj> Vote early!  Vote often!
16:06:00 <pkovar> /me is here
16:06:07 <asettle> Very exciting. Congratulations and good luck to pkovar and chason
16:06:12 <asettle> Really excited for you both.
16:06:25 <asettle> As jungleboyj said, don't forget to vote!
16:06:27 <pkovar> thanks, asettle
16:06:38 <jungleboyj> :-)
16:06:39 <asettle> Y'all should all have something in your inbox if you are able to vote! (as per the rules, you know the rules...)
16:06:57 <jungleboyj> Be aware that there were some issues with people being registered as eligible to vote.
16:06:58 <asettle> I admittedly can't remmeber off the top of my head - what's the final voting day?
16:07:06 <ianychoi> :)
16:07:08 <asettle> jungleboyj: ahh good call, thanks.
16:07:18 <jungleboyj> If you don't see an e-mail you can follow up with persia or diablo_rojo
16:07:40 <jungleboyj> Be aware that the vote forms go to your preferred gerrit e-mail.
16:07:47 <pkovar> for dates, see https://governance.openstack.org/election/ :)
16:07:50 <asettle> jungleboyj: correct. Thanks :D
16:08:03 <jungleboyj> asettle:  Welcome.  :-)
16:08:22 <amotoki> the title is "Poll: Openstack Documentation PTL Queens Release Election" if you need the title to look for the mail
16:08:23 <asettle> I'm sadly a little more behind in the last few weeks than I'd like to admit. My new role within Rackspace has been chumping at my heels
16:08:28 <ianychoi> The vote e-mail can be classified to spam folder - my case
16:08:44 <dhellmann> o/
16:08:46 <mlavalle> deadline is August 16th
16:08:52 <asettle> Thanks everyone :D
16:09:00 <asettle> Okay, don't forget to vote by August 16th!
16:09:15 <mlavalle> 23:45 utc
16:09:24 <asettle> Also, on that note, thanks everyone for an awesome cycle :) I'm sad that I didn't get the opportunity to help grow with the community for longer than Pike. But so it goes!
16:09:36 <asettle> Thanks everyone for your awesome support during what turned out to be a pretty ... interesting... time!
16:09:36 <ianychoi> Thanks a lot asettle !
16:10:41 <asettle> Thank y'all
16:10:46 <asettle> #topic Doc migration
16:10:59 <asettle> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:doc-migration
16:11:00 <jungleboyj> asettle: ++
16:11:03 <asettle> We still have *so* much in the works
16:11:08 <asettle> Everyone keep you eyes and ears out
16:11:19 <jungleboyj> asettle:  Thanks for working through a challenging time.
16:11:21 <asettle> We have a lot of people coming into the chan per-day. It would be great if everyone can lend a hand in the lead up to the release.
16:11:23 <asettle> Thank you, jungleboyj :)
16:11:43 <asettle> Big thanks to dhellmann and Andreas (ajaeger) for all their hard work on the dev and infra side of this project!
16:11:48 <jungleboyj> ++
16:11:51 <ianychoi> ++
16:11:52 <dhellmann> yes, we can always use help assisting folks debugging build issues, etc.
16:12:04 <dhellmann> and thanks to all of you who have already been doing that :-)
16:12:06 <asettle> Absolutely. There's a lot coming in all the time.
16:12:22 <dhellmann> the latest report found 1096 reviews with the topic "doc-migration"
16:12:24 <dhellmann> so, wow
16:12:27 <asettle> Wowwww
16:12:28 <asettle> That's insane
16:12:33 <jungleboyj> Yikes
16:12:34 <dhellmann> of those, 59 are currently open for review
16:12:52 <dhellmann> we're down to just a few expected docs not being visible: https://doughellmann.com/doc-migration/
16:13:31 <dhellmann> some of those are in process, I know
16:13:40 <dhellmann> and some may be bad assumptions about docs that do not yet exist
16:13:47 <asettle> Missing because dead, or missing because missing?
16:13:49 <dhellmann> so overall I feel pretty good about where things stand
16:13:59 <dhellmann> well, the cinder and nova stuff are in the works
16:14:09 <dhellmann> the panko project may not have a config reference at all, yet
16:14:10 <asettle> Yep, sdague and stephenfin have that under control (more or less)
16:14:35 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  I think Cinder is in pretty good shape.
16:14:45 <dhellmann> when the cinder and nova patches land, I'm ready to call phase 1 "done"
16:15:04 <dhellmann> if we have stragglers, it's not the end of the world
16:15:05 <jungleboyj> I see that patch, I will get it merged.
16:15:51 <dhellmann> ++
16:15:54 <asettle> Awesome :)
16:15:56 <asettle> Love that it's done!
16:16:18 <dhellmann> so, it's time to take stock of where we are and look at what we discussed as being part of phase 2 and prioritize that
16:16:24 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  You just talking about this:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/483667/3
16:16:28 <asettle> dhellmann: after your PTO, shall we spend a little bit of time on that?
16:17:01 <dhellmann> jungleboyj : https://doughellmann.com/doc-migration/ shows 2 "missing urls" related to cinder (admin and configuration)
16:17:08 * krtaylor reads the doc-migration spec
16:17:28 <dhellmann> asettle : yeah, it would be good to have the team review the "future" etherpad and start thinking about those things
16:17:37 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  That is weird.  I won't hijack the meeting.  Lets follow up after.
16:17:43 <dhellmann> jungleboyj: ok
16:18:02 <asettle> jungleboyj: did you guys add the tags? Is that maybe why?
16:18:12 <asettle> dhellmann: yep okay, let's maybe find some time with doc people in 2 weeks to review
16:18:19 <asettle> I'll send out an email perhaps, get everyone to have a sneak peak :)
16:18:36 <dhellmann> jungleboyj : those directories exist but do not have index.html pages
16:18:56 <jungleboyj> Ruh roh.  I may have done something wrong.  I will fix that ASAP.
16:19:07 <jungleboyj> The directories or there.
16:19:10 <asettle> Hahhaa jungleboyj reach out on the doc chan if you need help :)
16:19:31 <jungleboyj> Thanks for catching that.  You guys are awesome.
16:19:54 <asettle> Doug* is awesome
16:20:13 <dhellmann> asettle : it would be good to find someone to go through the project-data list and add flags for projects that have docs but haven't updated the latest.yaml file
16:20:24 <asettle> Good thoughts.
16:20:26 <asettle> Any takers?
16:20:33 <asettle> pkovar ?
16:20:36 <dhellmann> given the scramble around rc1, it's likely going to be easier for someone on the docs team to do it this time around
16:21:10 <pkovar> i can have a look, sure, asettle
16:21:14 <asettle> Fair enough :) if nobody can look, I'll do it
16:21:16 <asettle> Thanks pkovar !
16:21:51 <dhellmann> pkovar : the template generator has some flags to help you identify what flags can be turned on. See tools/test.sh
16:22:12 <dhellmann> I think you want --series latest --check-all-links
16:22:47 <pkovar> thanks, dhellmann
16:23:00 <amotoki> for folks not familiar with project-data, see www/project-data/*.yaml in openstack-manuals repo
16:23:37 <dhellmann> asettle : the other thing to do around this time in the cycle is to set up the pike series data file and the queens series templates
16:24:06 <dhellmann> that should happen after most of the project branch, since the validation code won't let us land the patch until the links on the pike pages exist
16:24:09 <asettle> dhellmann: might have to go through that together, if that's okay? that's not something I've done before.
16:24:21 <dhellmann> I think there are instructions in the team contributor guide
16:24:33 <dhellmann> sure, we can do that when I'm back on the 22nd
16:24:49 <dhellmann> if the docs aren't sufficient for you to do it before :-)
16:24:52 <asettle> Okay, I'll poke around before you come back :) hopefully I've got it all done
16:25:47 <asettle> Okay, anything else dhellmann ? :)
16:25:54 <dhellmann> that's it from me
16:26:17 <asettle> Awesome :) thank you so much for doing all this
16:26:34 <dhellmann> I'm happy to pitch in where I can :-)
16:26:35 <jungleboyj> asettle: ++
16:26:41 <asettle> Let's move on :)
16:26:44 <asettle> #topic PTG
16:26:54 <asettle> So, plannnninnnnggg
16:26:56 <asettle> Has begun!
16:26:58 <asettle> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-doc-PTG
16:27:05 <asettle> Who will be attending, and is planning on attending some doc sessions?
16:27:22 <mlavalle> o/
16:27:24 <dhellmann> o/
16:27:26 <jungleboyj> asettle:  I will be there and try to come to the Doc sessions.
16:27:33 <asettle> Awesome :D great to hear.
16:27:35 <jungleboyj> Are they Mon/Tue ?
16:27:42 <asettle> We've got a small room - cause last time we weren't sure how many were to arrive
16:27:43 <asettle> Yep!
16:27:46 <asettle> Mon - Tue
16:27:52 <jungleboyj> Awesome.  I will be there.
16:27:55 <asettle> And then i'm hoping to book some planning sessions on Wed/Thurs
16:28:05 <dhellmann> there may also be some space available for hacking later in the week
16:28:05 <pkovar> o/
16:28:20 <asettle> dhellmann: yep totally. I'm going to email Kendall today (I think Kendall did the rooms, no?)
16:28:32 <mlavalle> Wed/Thurs won't be as easy for me. got to go to the Neutron sessions
16:28:33 <dhellmann> and if folks want to do some knowledge transfer on how the template stuff works, I'll be happy to do that then
16:28:39 <dhellmann> probably not going to have time mon/tue
16:28:45 <asettle> mlavalle: no problem :) hopefully we'll see you Mon/Tues
16:28:59 <dhellmann> asettle : yeah, though if it's just a couple of us we can probably snag a table somewhere, too
16:29:02 <asettle> dhellmann: that's no sweat :)
16:29:10 <asettle> Easy. It was pretty good last time. Definitely worked out.
16:29:32 <dhellmann> assuming the weather is nice, we could also ptg outside
16:29:43 <ianychoi> Wow.. outside PTG :)
16:29:54 <jungleboyj> I would love any education on how things work under the covers so I can be more self sufficient.
16:29:56 * dhellmann has fond memories of the deck at the vancouver summit
16:29:59 <asettle> Dudes I seriously need to go outside.
16:30:02 <asettle> The UK "summer" is a joke
16:30:08 <asettle> I am dying inside.
16:30:11 <mlavalle> Denver can be warm this time of the year
16:30:12 <asettle> literally and figuratively
16:30:20 <asettle> jungleboyj: we can do our best!
16:30:32 <jungleboyj> The weather in the midwest has been awesome this summer!
16:30:36 <asettle> Admittedly, so much as changed I'll be learning too. So we can maybe do a sesh where we just figure it all out
16:30:40 <asettle> Neat :D
16:30:42 <asettle> That's what I need
16:30:57 <ianychoi> Sorry for my recent busy schedule.. hope that Docs Denver PTG will be so great
16:31:01 <krtaylor> just to introduce myself, I'm taking over doc liaison to help inc0 on Kolla docs - I'll be at PTG all week so I'll stop in as I can on Mon/Tues
16:31:08 <dhellmann> ok, I'll plan on being ready to do a walk0through
16:31:12 <dhellmann> or walk-through
16:31:34 <dhellmann> my goal for queens is to just review patches, not write them, so it'll be good to prepare for that
16:31:37 <asettle> krtaylor: nice to meet you!
16:31:41 <asettle> Be great to have you involved :)
16:31:46 <krtaylor> thanks!
16:31:48 <dhellmann> ++
16:31:55 <asettle> ianychoi: not at all. Do you have a separate etherpad, or do you want to combine?
16:32:01 <asettle> dhellmann: walk-through would be so helpful
16:32:15 <asettle> Maybe we could do a 'lunch and learn' session? Invite all, and just sit and have a bit of a 'this is how things work now'
16:32:21 <asettle> So everyone's on the same page
16:32:31 <krtaylor> +1
16:32:44 <amotoki> perhaps the translation related topic is better to be discussed as part of the doc-migration
16:32:48 <mlavalle> yeah, that would be great
16:33:40 <asettle> amotoki: good thoughts
16:33:43 <asettle> Could you add to the etherpad?
16:33:45 <ianychoi> asettle, I18n currently has separated Etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-i18n-PTG and yep I agree with amotoki - translation support with docs-migration would be so important topic.
16:33:50 <asettle> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-doc-PTG
16:33:59 <ianychoi> amotoki, would u add to Docs etherpad? :)
16:34:12 <amotoki> docs PTG etherpad ?
16:34:34 <asettle> Yes please :)
16:34:42 <ianychoi> amotoki, yep - then I will link it from I18n etherpad
16:34:57 <amotoki> i see it is already listed in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-future-problems but adding it helps us.
16:35:02 <amotoki> sure I will add it.
16:35:08 <ianychoi> Thank u!
16:35:33 <asettle> Awesome, thank you amotoki :)
16:35:40 <asettle> Do you have anything to add RE PTG, ianychoi ?
16:35:49 <asettle> Docs and i18n are doing a joint room again :) ftr
16:36:02 <asettle> Worked really well last time!
16:36:40 <ianychoi> asettle, I think I would like to support I18n-ed PDFs in Queens cycle with volunteers :)
16:37:05 <asettle> Okay, great!
16:38:21 <asettle> Alright! Let's move on :)
16:38:21 <asettle> #topic Bug triaging
16:38:31 <asettle> So, the doc team started trialling using a bug triage liaison
16:38:33 <asettle> This has been working really well!
16:38:36 <ianychoi> I have been seeing how to support different PDF fonts for different languages - very slowly but it would be an important step to make translated PDFs. I will more describe it - hopefully before PTG
16:38:44 <asettle> Oh sorry ianychoi
16:38:49 <ianychoi> asettle, fine :)
16:38:51 <asettle> ianychoi: that'd be a great addition. Let's talk more :)
16:39:05 <asettle> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams#Bug_Triage_Team
16:39:10 <ianychoi> asettle, because of my slow typing :) +1
16:39:15 <asettle> ianychoi: sorry, I'm a rusher!
16:39:33 <ianychoi> Kool - Rush Rush :)
16:39:36 <asettle> I think this went really well for Pike
16:39:49 <asettle> But now with the changes. We've got a lot of questions coming up - are we even going to keep the openstack-manuals bug repo?
16:40:06 <asettle> Cause a lot of the bugs that will be reported from the 'report a bug' button in docs, will go to manuals, but may need to be dealt with in $PROJECT
16:40:34 <dhellmann> the theme does support setting the correct launchpad project, so many of those should be targeted correctly automatically
16:40:42 <amotoki> asettle: is it about existing guides before Pike?
16:40:57 <asettle> dhellmann: okay that's good.
16:41:00 <asettle> amotoki: yeah, that's an issue.
16:41:03 <pkovar> i guess that as long there is content in the -manuals repo, it's useful
16:41:05 <dhellmann> I wonder how many of the existing open bugs are related to content that has moved or been deleted
16:41:09 <pkovar> * as
16:41:33 <asettle> A *lot*
16:41:39 <asettle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals
16:41:42 <asettle> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals
16:41:47 <asettle> We're going to need to do a clean up
16:41:56 <amotoki> for Ocata or prior, we can add a project as affected project and once they are fixed we can update ocata versions in openstack-manuals.
16:42:51 <asettle> amotoki: okay. We'd still have to go through manually though, yeah?
16:43:02 <amotoki> asettle: I think so
16:43:19 <asettle> Okay, maybe one of the working bees we can do at the PTG is going through all the bugs
16:43:23 <asettle> Would be good to get out of the way
16:43:38 <asettle> And there's only ~120
16:43:42 <asettle> Should be fairly easy with a small group
16:43:44 <asettle> Anyone able to help?
16:44:15 <jungleboyj> I could try to help with that at the PTG.
16:44:35 <pkovar> sounds like something we can totally do at the PTG, yes
16:44:39 <asettle> That's great, thank you guys!
16:45:06 <amotoki> i can help it (though I am not sure i can help during PTG)
16:45:14 <asettle> Okay, well, we'll get those bugs in the right places (and assigned to the right projects)
16:45:28 <asettle> And then we can figure out if doing a bug triage liaison is still the best option :)
16:45:49 <ianychoi> One question after seeing the Wiki - then for example, pike install guides should be shipped before final release R+0? What would be documentation policy for install guides in project repositories with stable branch?
16:46:41 <dhellmann> what sort of policy do you mean?
16:47:14 <amotoki> I think ianychoi is asking about "call for testing installation guide"
16:47:35 <ianychoi> What I meant was that openstack-manuals usually has a stable branch around R+2 with testing after R+0
16:47:39 <amotoki> previously the installation guide is tested after the release and the a branch was cut
16:48:00 <asettle> I believe we were discussing this the other day. So we have a few steps here...
16:48:15 <asettle> 1. We're going to have to update our mission statement, to determine the doc team scope
16:48:20 <asettle> 2. Determine testing
16:49:05 <ianychoi> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/436681/1/doc/source/release_management.rst@91
16:49:34 <ianychoi> This is old version and I would like to enhance the description for I18n team how to translate documentations :)
16:49:49 <asettle> #link https://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/release/taskdetail.html#installation-tutorial-testing
16:49:49 <dhellmann> ah, so you're asking about translating stable branch documentation?
16:50:16 <amotoki> about a new stable branch
16:50:30 <ianychoi> Yep - when would be good timing for I18n team to start document translation for stable branch
16:50:50 <dhellmann> great question. what do people think?
16:51:04 <asettle> Oh I see. Hmm
16:51:08 <amotoki> no translation support for documentation in individual projects is available yet....
16:51:12 <asettle> Maybe we shouldn't change. Maybe we should keep the trailing testing.
16:51:22 <asettle> I don't see why we need to. It makes sense for docs.
16:51:35 <asettle> amotoki: hmm yeah I didn't think of that
16:51:40 <dhellmann> certainly this time around that seems the most realistic
16:51:42 <asettle> Is that likely to happen?
16:52:46 <amotoki> I think the process is relatively easy, it is similar to what ianychoi did for the i18n guide
16:53:02 <dhellmann> we put off configuring the translation jobs. we could probably do that in the next couple of weeks, but we would need someone to work with AJaeger to do it
16:54:04 * asettle has little to no infra knowledge :(
16:54:29 <amotoki> i usually work on translation scripts with Ajaeger and can help it if it does not conflict with summary vacation
16:54:44 <jungleboyj> infra guys do magic asettle  That is all it is.  ;-)
16:54:52 <asettle> This explains much.
16:54:59 <jungleboyj> :-)
16:55:07 <amotoki> yeah, it is a magic :)
16:55:12 <ianychoi> Yep.. then I think I18n team can start document translation activities after Docs team finish trailing testing :) yep magic
16:55:22 <jungleboyj> And my son informed me the other day that all magicians are aliens.
16:55:30 <dhellmann> is the docs team going to be doing the installation testing?
16:55:38 <asettle> jungleboyj: well I mean, he's not wrong.
16:55:39 <dhellmann> jungleboyj : that seems legit.
16:55:41 <asettle> dhellmann: so, I was thinking about this.
16:55:46 <asettle> That's what I Was thinking we could use the tag for.
16:55:48 * jungleboyj is laughing
16:55:57 <asettle> I'm not sure the docs team has the capability to do it :(
16:56:03 <asettle> We used to struggle before this
16:56:06 <jungleboyj> Oh, he will love that two smart people just agreed with him.
16:56:19 * asettle whispers
16:56:22 <asettle> Guys he called me smart
16:56:26 <dhellmann> asettle : settling that mission statement may help clarify the answer to that question
16:56:38 <jungleboyj> asettle:  Yeah, seems like doing the install testing might be a stretch for the docs team.
16:56:39 <asettle> dhellmann: I agree. I think also, it might be good to implement the tag at this point.
16:56:45 <asettle> If the testing is complete, stamp the tag
16:56:46 <amotoki> the docs team send a mail to encourage install testing
16:56:52 <amotoki> *can send*
16:56:52 <asettle> amotoki: absolutely
16:56:57 <asettle> Yay! Thanks amotoki :)
16:56:58 <pkovar> first things first? ;)
16:57:07 <pkovar> re:  mission statement
16:57:16 <jungleboyj> Can we reach out to the PTLs/liaisons to get someone to try to do it for different projects?
16:57:51 <asettle> jungleboyj: liaisons might be our best bet. PTls are always scrambling at this stage
16:57:57 <asettle> Aw shite dudes, we've only got 3 minutes to go!
16:58:15 <ianychoi> Oh time is going so fast haha
16:58:15 <jungleboyj> When does the testing have to be done?
16:58:32 <asettle> jungleboyj: we are usually trailing by release by about a month?
16:58:48 <jungleboyj> Ok.  That isn't too bad.
16:59:03 <jungleboyj> I can reach out to the Cinder team at the next meeting and see if anyone can help.
16:59:06 <pkovar> https://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/release/taskdetail.html#installation-tutorial-testing might be helpful here
16:59:17 <asettle> Awesome :)
16:59:20 <asettle> Sorry guys
16:59:23 <asettle> I'm going to have to shut us down
16:59:24 <jungleboyj> pkovar:  Thank you.  I think that was what I was about to ask about.
16:59:30 <jungleboyj> :-(
16:59:32 <asettle> But this was great. I think we might have one more meeting before the PTG
16:59:36 <asettle> Might try and have another meeting next week
16:59:40 <asettle> Seems like we have plenty to discuss!
16:59:42 <dhellmann> ++
16:59:45 <ianychoi> Thank you all!
16:59:46 <jungleboyj> asettle: ++
16:59:58 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Patch is progress to fix those index pages.
17:00:01 <pkovar> thanks everybody
17:00:02 <mlavalle> o/
17:00:04 <dhellmann> jungleboyj : great!
17:00:08 <asettle> Thanks everyone!
17:00:11 <asettle> Have a great Thursday :D
17:00:12 <asettle> o/
17:00:18 <dhellmann> thanks, everyone!
17:00:23 <jungleboyj> Thanks all!
17:00:27 <krtaylor> o/
17:00:27 <asettle> #endmeeting