16:01:38 <asettle> #startmeeting docteam
16:01:42 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 16:01:38 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asettle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:43 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:01:45 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'
16:01:48 <openstack> asettle: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.
16:02:03 <jungleboyj> @!
16:02:04 <_pewp_> jungleboyj ( ・ω・)ノ
16:02:10 <asettle> Phew, was having a slight delay there
16:02:12 <ianychoi> o/
16:02:14 <asettle> Hey everyone :)
16:02:19 <rluethi> hi
16:02:19 <pkovar> /me is here
16:02:30 <eumel8> hi alex
16:02:33 <eumel8> o/
16:02:36 <asettle> Hello!
16:02:43 <dhellmann> o/
16:03:04 <asettle> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting
16:03:07 <asettle> Agenda )
16:03:08 <asettle> :) *
16:03:19 <asettle> Small agenda, but like last week, no doubt we'll debate the worldddd :p
16:03:33 <asettle> Will wait until 5 past as always
16:04:06 <jungleboyj> :-)  Short meetings!?!  Impossible!
16:04:13 <asettle> We used to manage like, 20 minutes!
16:04:15 <asettle> Crazy times :p
16:04:27 <stephenfin> o/
16:04:48 <asettle> o/
16:05:27 <asettle> Okay, let's go
16:05:33 <asettle> #topic Action items from the last meeting
16:05:38 <asettle> No items again! Hooray!
16:05:59 <asettle> #topic Queens PTL!
16:06:10 <asettle> Congratulations and welcome to Petr! ( pkovar )
16:06:17 <pkovar> thanks, asettle
16:06:30 <asettle> Want to just give us a litle bit about yourself for those you don't previously konw you? :)
16:06:30 <pkovar> and thank you for your support, everybody
16:06:34 <asettle> (where you work, etc)
16:06:34 <ianychoi> Congrats, pkovar!
16:06:59 <eumel8> pkovar: congrats, again :)
16:07:00 <pkovar> so i started contributing to openstack and rdo around mitaka
16:07:16 <pkovar> was mostly involved in linux desktop communities before that
16:07:19 <jungleboyj> pkovar:  Congrats!
16:07:37 <pkovar> i write docs, and am a translator too, actually :)
16:08:05 <pkovar> happy to work with all of you
16:08:15 <pkovar> at the ptg and elsewhere
16:08:34 <asettle> That'd be great :) looking forward to syncing up at the PTG
16:09:51 <jungleboyj> ++
16:09:57 <dhellmann> ++
16:10:56 <asettle> Sorry guys, I'm juggling two separate meetings
16:11:03 <asettle> Also congrats to Frank, who is the new i18n PTL
16:11:07 <asettle> I don't have Frank's IRC name?
16:11:17 <eumel8> I'm here :)
16:11:43 <pkovar> asettle: feel free to #chair me
16:12:45 <asettle> Oh there you are eumel8
16:12:46 <asettle> Congratulations!
16:12:51 <asettle> #chair pkovar
16:12:52 <openstack> Current chairs: asettle pkovar
16:13:01 <asettle> Please go ahead pkovar :) sorry
16:13:05 <pkovar> no worries
16:13:14 <eumel8> thanks for the congratulation, asettle, and hopefully we will have a good work with both teams at the PTG and during the next cycle.
16:13:28 <asettle> Looking forward to it :) it's always great to be working with you guys. It went really well in Atlanta!
16:13:57 <pkovar> eumel8++
16:14:05 <eumel8> looking forward too :)
16:14:14 <pkovar> okay to move on to Doc migration ?
16:14:15 <ianychoi> I cannot go to Denver, but really hope that we will have a good discussion :)
16:14:19 <ianychoi> +1
16:14:37 <jungleboyj> ianychoi:  Bummer.
16:14:49 <pkovar> *sadface*
16:15:01 <ianychoi> T.T
16:15:26 <asettle> #topic Doc migration
16:15:27 <eumel8> ianychoi: depends on your timezone but Google Hangout is proposed and also IRC, of course.
16:15:34 <asettle> pkovar: go ahead
16:15:41 <pkovar> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:doc-migration
16:15:48 <ianychoi> eumel8, sure - definitely :)
16:16:00 <pkovar> Only 3 pages of reviews! :D
16:16:16 <pkovar> almost done with https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-migration-tracking
16:16:19 <pkovar> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-migration-tracking
16:16:37 <pkovar> next is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-future-problems
16:16:38 <pkovar> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-future-problems
16:16:52 <pkovar> Any updates from dhellmann? Ajaeger?
16:17:09 <dhellmann> nothing new from  me
16:17:11 <pkovar> ah, Ajaeger isn't here
16:17:58 <pkovar> so, we have a doc migration session scheduled for Wednesday morning at the ptg
16:18:05 <pkovar> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-doc-PTG
16:18:19 <dhellmann> we did have a question earlier about whether teams should backport doc migration changes if they didn't get them in before their branch, and the answer is yes in case that comes up again
16:18:37 <jungleboyj> Doh, that will be opposite Cinder sessions.  :-(
16:18:47 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  ++
16:19:10 <pkovar> jungleboyj: we can book afternoon slots too, if there is intersted
16:19:19 <pkovar> what do you think?
16:19:32 <jungleboyj> pkovar:  Sure, that could be good.
16:19:36 <pkovar> interest, rather
16:19:53 <dhellmann> I wonder if next time around we should use mon/tue for "helping" sessions and a day or two later in the week for team planning sessions
16:20:02 <dhellmann> to avoid that overlap
16:20:09 <pkovar> okay, if there are no objections, i will book the same room for afternoon, too
16:20:32 <dhellmann> ++
16:21:28 <pkovar> dhellmann: would teams interested in docs be less busy on mon & tue?
16:21:30 <asettle> Sounds good :)
16:22:04 <dhellmann> pkovar : yes, mon/tue are the "cross-project" team days, so teams like cinder won't meet on those days and their team could drop in to a docs room if they needed to
16:22:21 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  ++
16:22:28 <jungleboyj> Docs is kind of cross-project
16:22:38 <dhellmann> otoh, if we leave the docs team planning to wed then anyone who is on the docs team and another team would have a conflict there
16:22:51 <dhellmann> so I guess it depends on how many people like that we have
16:23:17 <dhellmann> we have plenty of time to figure that out before the next ptg in february
16:24:19 <pkovar> makes sense
16:24:58 <pkovar> Colorado Ballroom C booked for wed afternoon
16:25:06 <pkovar> #link https://ethercalc.openstack.org/Queens-PTG-Discussion-Rooms
16:25:06 <dhellmann> depending on how this one goes, that would be feedback to give to the organizers in denver, too
16:25:34 <asettle> Great :) thanks pkovar
16:25:36 <jungleboyj> Agreed.
16:26:00 <dhellmann> I updated the etherpad
16:27:00 <pkovar> thanks
16:27:12 <pkovar> next #topic?
16:27:17 <asettle> pkovar: please :)
16:27:23 <pkovar> #topic Docs release
16:27:36 <pkovar> Pretty much nearly ready to go! Andreas and Alex approved the release patch
16:27:44 <pkovar> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/493234/
16:27:50 <pkovar> All that is required is to ensure that relevant docs are published
16:27:54 <pkovar> dhellmann is updating the docs for this.
16:27:59 <dhellmann> I have a patch for that up now:
16:28:01 <dhellmann> #link https://review.openstack.org/497476
16:28:04 <asettle> dhellmann: you're a star
16:28:05 <pkovar> great!
16:28:50 <ianychoi> Great!
16:28:54 <dhellmann> I could use more feedback about what people need help with
16:29:12 <dhellmann> I'll be putting together a brief overview of the new template stuff for the ptg, too
16:29:12 <pkovar> /me will have a look
16:29:19 <asettle> dhellmann: that'd be a good idea.
16:29:37 <asettle> dhellmann: I do wonder if we need to have a lunch 'n' learn at the PTG on how docs now work
16:29:43 <asettle> Helpful for us too
16:29:59 <jungleboyj> asettle: ++
16:30:09 <asettle> That would help you gain some feedback
16:30:21 <dhellmann> yeah, my idea was to start an etherpad with some "how do I ..." sections and then go over those, with other folks taking notes as we went so we can turn those into docs if we have missing info
16:30:35 <asettle> dhellmann: I like!
16:30:59 <dhellmann> there's a bunch of info dump on https://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/doc-tools/template-generator.html but it's not very process-oriented
16:31:45 <diablo_rojo_phon> asettle good idea!
16:31:57 <asettle> Uh oh, if diablo_rojo_phon has found out, it's going to happen now :p
16:32:03 <ianychoi> Hi diablo_rojo_phon !
16:32:25 <diablo_rojo_phon> Hello ianychoi :)
16:32:31 <ianychoi> :)
16:32:32 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  I keep getting questions on content that can be auto generated.  Any education there would be greatly apprecaited.
16:32:54 <dhellmann> jungleboyj : ok, I'll make a note of that
16:33:02 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Thank you.
16:34:59 <pkovar> any other Q's on docs publishing?
16:35:08 <asettle> Not from my side :)
16:35:24 <dhellmann> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-tool-lunch-and-learn
16:35:33 <dhellmann> there's my notes so far
16:35:40 <dhellmann> feel free to add things to that list
16:35:45 <jungleboyj> pkovar:  I do have a question about what is happening with the release being cut.
16:35:51 <jungleboyj> A couple of them actually.
16:36:18 <pkovar> shoot but i think dhellmann knows more :)
16:36:33 <jungleboyj> Well, yeah, for both of you.  :-)
16:36:45 <pkovar> heh
16:36:58 <jungleboyj> So, it looks like the external docs site right now is going to point to pike.
16:37:22 <dhellmann> "external docs site"?
16:37:27 <jungleboyj> So, for any changes that go into master we will need to backport them to pike, correct?
16:38:12 <jungleboyj> If it is important.
16:38:21 <dhellmann> I'm not sure what you mean by "external docs site"?
16:38:38 <pkovar> me neither, actually
16:38:48 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Sorry.  https://docs.openstack.org/pike/
16:38:52 <jungleboyj> I am talking about that.
16:39:06 <dhellmann> ok
16:39:19 <jungleboyj> So, the main question is if something is backported to pike will it automatically get rebuild and show up under that site?
16:39:28 <dhellmann> yes, right now pike is set as the most current release
16:39:33 <ianychoi> I have a simple question: when openstack-manuals repo would have stable/pike branch? Around R+0 or around during PTG?
16:39:37 <dhellmann> there is a queens page, and the links there point to the "latest" URLs (docs.o.o/project/latest/
16:39:58 <jungleboyj> Ok.
16:39:59 <dhellmann> yes, the docs for each branch of your project should be built separately
16:40:11 <dhellmann> so if you want something to show up in your pike docs, backport it to the stable/pike branch
16:40:25 <dhellmann> that's part of why we wanted the migration done before branches were cut, to avoid having to backport lots of changes
16:40:35 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Ok.  That was what I thought.
16:40:45 <dhellmann> doc changes should not trigger a new release candidate, fwiw
16:40:57 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Ok, that is good to know.
16:41:49 <jungleboyj> dhellmann:  Thank you.
16:42:54 <dhellmann> ianychoi : I don't think we will be branching the openstack-manuals repo any more. None of the remaining content is version-specific.
16:44:13 <ianychoi> dhellmann, oh really - I got it and agree that version-specific documents are migrated. Thanks!
16:44:14 <pkovar> ianychoi: have a look at https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/master/www -- it contains the version-specific stuff for each release
16:44:44 <pkovar> queens included
16:44:59 <ianychoi> pkovar, thanks for the link - I meant branches in http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/refs/
16:45:19 <pkovar> ianychoi: yeah, i too think we dont need them
16:45:28 <eumel8> dhellmann: that sounds good. simplify the things
16:45:36 <dhellmann> eumel8 : exactly
16:45:38 <ianychoi> pkovar, agreed :)
16:46:16 <pkovar> okay to move to next #topic?
16:46:27 <ianychoi> Yep.. eumel8: then I think I18n team needs to figure out the demands for translation for version specific documents
16:47:02 <pkovar> sounds like ptg material?
16:47:03 <eumel8> ianychoi: thx, note for our next meeting :)
16:47:40 <pkovar> #topic PTG
16:47:42 <pkovar> Planning etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-doc-PTG
16:47:48 <pkovar> Petr will continue planning the PTG.
16:47:52 <ianychoi> eumel8, my pleasure :)
16:48:13 <pkovar> eumel8: you wanted to discuss i18n-docs topics for the ptg?
16:48:32 <pkovar> feel free to update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-doc-PTG
16:49:02 <pkovar> we have a link to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/denver-i18n-PTG there too
16:49:21 <eumel8> our agenda is almost empty
16:49:32 <eumel8> some topics from amotoki there
16:49:53 <pkovar> okay
16:49:54 <eumel8> but I think we're doing PTG together like the last one on Atlanta
16:50:19 <eumel8> unfortunatelly I wasn't there
16:50:33 <pkovar> that's my understanding too :)
16:50:41 <pkovar> me neither, eumel8 :)
16:50:46 <eumel8> :)
16:51:14 <asettle> Yep!
16:51:20 <asettle> So, last time we managed the two intertwined
16:51:29 <eumel8> I think we will have some discussions with the doc migration and how infect this the I18n
16:51:33 <asettle> Let me find the previous etherpad so you both can get an idea of what ianychoi and I did
16:51:41 <asettle> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/docs-i18n-ptg-pike
16:51:58 <ianychoi> Although I18n team have not discussed yet for PTG topics too much, I think there would be so many topics to be discussed - for example, 1) translation support after doc-migration 2) PDF generation for translated documents 3) adding translation document generation support to openstackdocstheme
16:52:03 <asettle> We managed the topics together, so that there was times that ianychoi and I collaborated, and others were separate.
16:52:18 <asettle> pkovar and eumel8 - might work to merge those etherpads :)
16:52:44 <pkovar> eumel8: okay with merging?
16:53:08 <ianychoi> #link https://docs.openstack.org/i18n/latest/
16:53:09 <eumel8> thx asettle. I think we review the last PTG and catching the lost topics
16:53:15 <asettle> Good thoughts :)
16:53:22 <eumel8> pkovar: I think so
16:53:25 <ianychoi> I18n Contributor guide now has a language tab: [ English | 日本語 | Indonesia | Deutsch | Türkçe (Türkiye) | 한국어 (대한민국) ]
16:53:34 <asettle> It's entirely up to you both. I think at the time ianychoi and i were just figuring it out
16:53:51 <dhellmann> ianychoi : nice! is that a feature of the theme, or did you do that by hand in the rst?
16:55:00 <ianychoi> dhellmann, currently, adding some scripts on i18n repo, and amotoki (also me) would like to incorporate it into openstackdocstheme :)
16:55:01 <eumel8> pkovar: I like the agenda from the last PTG. We should do the same for Denver.
16:55:13 <pkovar> eumel8: fine with me
16:55:15 <dhellmann> ianychoi : I like the idea of adding it to the theme.
16:56:10 <asettle> eumel8: pkovar - I scheduled everything for 40 minute increments, which worked super well because people came in on the actual time slots
16:56:18 <asettle> Naturally you'll change things as you get closer to the date ;)
16:56:27 <ianychoi> dhellmann, thank u :)
16:56:45 <pkovar> yeah, i was thinking what's the preference here, everybody?
16:56:50 <pkovar> pre-scheduled, i guess?
16:56:54 <eumel8> asettle: hopefully ;)
16:57:22 <dhellmann> scheduling makes sense for topics where we expect people to need to come and go, but part of the point of having the ptg time be unstructured is to let teams spend as much time as they need on a given topic
16:57:22 <pkovar> 3 more mins
16:57:35 <dhellmann> some topics may only take a few minutes, but some may take more than 40
16:57:51 <dhellmann> the project doc translation may be a long conversation, for example
16:58:02 <asettle> dhellmann: the structure was fluid. But it was designed so everyone got their say. I did have a lot of feedback that the schedule worked.
16:58:19 <pkovar> dhellmann: makes a lot of sense, that's my experience from other community events, actually
16:58:36 <asettle> It's entirely up to you guys :)
16:58:42 <ianychoi> It completely depends.. but it would be so nice to have both structured & unstructured things..
16:58:45 <dhellmann> asettle : sure, I just didn't want us to fall into a trap of cutting off discussion because of a schedule
16:58:45 <eumel8> dhellmann: that's true, but we should have a minimal agenda
16:58:54 <dhellmann> an agenda definitely makes sense
16:58:56 <asettle> Oh no dhellmann would never do that.
16:59:04 <ianychoi> On February, asettle and me sometimes changed schedule with flexibility :)
16:59:07 <asettle> It was just so people arrived in the room when we would, in theoery, start chatting
16:59:16 <pkovar> let's continue the discussion later and in the next meeting?
16:59:23 <dhellmann> ++
16:59:28 <ianychoi> +1
16:59:31 <eumel8> thx to all
16:59:31 <rluethi> Pike release is next Wednesday. I'd be interested to learn about plans for teesting. FWIW, I have a patch for an automated Pike training-labs based on the current state of the "install-guide".
16:59:34 <pkovar> that would be Sept 7?
17:00:20 <dhellmann> rluethi : we're about out of time; maybe we can discuss that in #openstack-docs?
17:00:26 <asettle> Yep, scoot on over :)
17:00:27 <dhellmann> sorry, #openstack-doc
17:00:30 <asettle> Thanks for hosting pkovar !
17:00:31 <rluethi> dhellmann: when?
17:00:33 <pkovar> rluethi lets move there
17:00:37 <ianychoi> Thanks pkovar !
17:00:40 <dhellmann> rluethi : now, we just need to clear this channel for other meetings
17:00:41 <ianychoi> and also asettle !
17:00:42 <rluethi> bye
17:00:44 <pkovar> thanks
17:00:45 <sekelso> Bye
17:00:45 <pkovar> #endmeeting
17:00:49 <pkovar> #endmeeting