02:59:55 <Loquacity> #startmeeting DocTeamMeeting
02:59:56 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 19 02:59:55 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Loquacity. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
02:59:57 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
02:59:59 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting'
03:00:17 <Loquacity> Here's our Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting
03:01:00 <Loquacity> so just in case anyone is confused, annegentle and i are alternating docs meetings to try and catch more timezones
03:01:18 <Loquacity> the new schedule looks like this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Monthly_doc.2Fweb_team_meeting
03:01:27 <Loquacity> #topic Action items from last meeting
03:01:39 <Loquacity> it doesn't look as though we have any action items to follow up on
03:01:50 <Loquacity> #topic Report from the Summit
03:02:01 <Loquacity> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2013-November/003252.html
03:02:19 <Loquacity> annegentle wrote this doc from the summit, which i think she was waiting to hear back from people on
03:02:30 <Loquacity> specifically, i think you had comments fifieldt?
03:03:23 <fifieldt> hi
03:03:27 <Loquacity> hey :)
03:03:50 <fifieldt> so, I wasn't quite sure of exactly what the config-reference was going to look like
03:04:09 <fifieldt> during H it kinda became a bit of a 'dumping ground'
03:04:15 <Loquacity> ok
03:04:20 <fifieldt> whereas the initial plan was for something much lighter
03:04:27 <fifieldt> though, in the email I replied to
03:04:39 <fifieldt> it seemed to be that the way forward was to Strip All The Things
03:04:49 <fifieldt> and just have lists of options
03:04:51 <Loquacity> is that bad?
03:04:58 <fifieldt> which probably goes too far in that direction
03:05:02 <Loquacity> ah, ok
03:05:21 <Loquacity> it seems as though we might need a dedicated session to discuss that?
03:05:28 <fifieldt> The example I always use is the RPC section
03:05:29 <fifieldt> http://docs.openstack.org/havana/config-reference/content/configuring-rpc.html
03:05:55 <fifieldt> introduction, few notes, tables
03:05:57 <Loquacity> oh, i looked at this in a review yesterday, i think
03:06:16 <Loquacity> it *is* a reference guide, though
03:06:22 <fifieldt> not guide
03:06:25 <fifieldt> it is a reference
03:06:27 <fifieldt> not a reference guide
03:06:29 <Loquacity> ah
03:06:30 <Loquacity> my bad
03:06:36 <Loquacity> ok, that changes things
03:07:09 <fifieldt> it's the well-worn stapled-together thing that operators use as a look-up
03:07:25 <Loquacity> yep
03:07:53 <fifieldt> the guiding principle through it all is - it was supposed to be the damn-simple to maintain book
03:08:08 <fifieldt> with the hope that the paras around the tables wouldn't change much between releases, if at all
03:08:19 <fifieldt> and the tables take care of themselves though auto-things
03:08:21 <Loquacity> yeah, lots of tables, not much in the way of concepts
03:08:28 <Loquacity> makes sense
03:08:31 <Loquacity> so what's the proposal?
03:09:21 * fifieldt doublechecks the name of the 'other' book
03:09:35 <fifieldt> "Cloud Administrator Guide "
03:09:46 <fifieldt> that's the guide, where the guid-y things should go, IMO
03:09:52 <Loquacity> yep
03:10:05 <Loquacity> that's the one i've got open now, actually
03:10:36 <Loquacity> ok, so maybe we need something laying this out?
03:10:39 <fifieldt> the TOC for that one was thrown together very quickly
03:10:42 <fifieldt> so likely, yes
03:10:48 <Loquacity> where do overall plans like this usually reside?
03:10:51 <Loquacity> on the wiki?
03:11:00 <Loquacity> or do you think we need to discuss on list a little more first?
03:11:02 <fifieldt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals with a link to a wiki page
03:11:12 <fifieldt> it's better to write up a proposal
03:11:16 <fifieldt> so people can just say "yes" ;)
03:11:20 <Loquacity> ok, makes sense
03:11:24 <Loquacity> do you want to kick that off?
03:11:46 * fifieldt looks at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-restructure-documentation
03:12:14 <fifieldt> I suspect there will be a lot of commonality between that page
03:12:17 <fifieldt> and whatever we create
03:12:46 <fifieldt> I was also never happy with the description of the "Cloud Administrator Guide"
03:12:48 <fifieldt> " Provide guidance to day-to-day cloud administrators about how to perform administrative tasks."
03:12:55 <Loquacity> yeah, agreed
03:13:08 <Loquacity> ok, so let's add an action for you to kick off that proposal
03:13:13 <Loquacity> and i'll help you out wherever i can
03:13:16 <Loquacity> ok?
03:13:23 <fifieldt> I'm unlikely to be able to do anything in coming days
03:13:28 <fifieldt> so it depends how soon you want it
03:13:32 <fifieldt> :)
03:13:37 <Loquacity> in that case, maybe we should assign it to me?
03:13:48 <Loquacity> no guarantee i'll get to it quickly either, i'm travelling to texas soon
03:13:48 <fifieldt> actually
03:13:52 <Loquacity> but i'm happy to take it
03:13:56 <fifieldt> I'm just thinking
03:14:02 <fifieldt> argh
03:14:06 <fifieldt> naw, my thinking is bad
03:14:07 <Loquacity> thinking is hard?
03:14:11 <Loquacity> ;)
03:14:15 <fifieldt> I was toying with the ideas of a 'first principles' look at things
03:14:29 <fifieldt> since you were shiny enough
03:14:34 <Loquacity> that's not insane, i think
03:14:35 <fifieldt> but it's probably not worth going that far up
03:14:38 * fifieldt shrugs
03:14:44 <Loquacity> but we can explore that further
03:14:57 <Loquacity> #action Loquacity to begin working on a proposal for config-reference and cloud admin guide IA
03:15:22 <Loquacity> #topic Install Guide
03:15:53 <Loquacity> i'm not sure what to say on this
03:16:04 <fifieldt> based on the meeting log
03:16:05 <Loquacity> i'm working on some high level IA-type stuff on the install guide now
03:16:13 <fifieldt> they seemed to make some conclusions in the previous meeting
03:16:17 <Loquacity> but that is still WIP
03:16:28 <fifieldt> IA-type ?
03:16:34 <Loquacity> information architecture
03:16:41 <fifieldt> ok, that's what I thought, cool
03:16:44 <fifieldt> tell me more :D
03:16:45 <Loquacity> :)
03:16:51 <Loquacity> just skimming the minutes
03:17:16 <Loquacity> basically the gist was that we need to do an overhaul for icehouse
03:17:29 <Loquacity> but there are needed improvements before then, we just don't want to do anything too major
03:17:49 <Loquacity> steve gordon is looking at it too
03:18:06 <Loquacity> so unless anyone else has comments on that, we can probably move on
03:18:12 <fifieldt> my only comment
03:18:15 <fifieldt> is testing :)
03:18:20 <fifieldt> we need to test :)
03:18:26 <fifieldt> and I'm glad that we could do some this time
03:18:27 <Loquacity> yep, agree 100%
03:18:56 <Loquacity> i'm also having coffee with summer later this week, so we'll probably discuss this
03:19:02 <fifieldt> yay :)
03:19:13 <Loquacity> ok, moving on
03:19:18 <Loquacity> #topic Tom describe more about config ref and restructure for Icehouse
03:19:28 <Loquacity> so i think we've covered that in the summit discussion
03:19:32 <fifieldt> yes, indeed
03:19:38 <fifieldt> unless there's more required?
03:19:41 <Loquacity> i don't think so
03:19:45 <fifieldt> cool
03:19:46 <Loquacity> we have an action, so it's all good
03:19:52 <Loquacity> #topic Meeting times, office hours
03:20:00 <Loquacity> i don't have much of an opinion on office hours
03:20:08 <Loquacity> but meetings have obviously been changed
03:20:17 * fifieldt checks logs
03:20:29 <Loquacity> i updated the wiki to reflect the new meeting schedule:
03:20:31 <Loquacity> 1st Tuesday, 03:00:00 UTC
03:20:31 <Loquacity> 2nd Tuesday, 14:00:00 UTC
03:20:31 <Loquacity> 3rd Tuesday, 03:00:00 UTC
03:20:31 <Loquacity> 4th Tuesday, 14:00:00 UTC
03:20:44 <fifieldt> kewl
03:20:45 <Loquacity> so i'll be looking after 1st and 3rd tuesdays
03:20:55 <fifieldt> thank you :)
03:20:59 <Loquacity> np
03:21:15 <Loquacity> also note that annegentle has changed the 2nd and 4th tuesdays to 1400
03:21:27 <fifieldt> yup
03:21:28 <Loquacity> that messed a few people up last week
03:21:56 * fifieldt is looking forward to when that's 10pm for me
03:21:56 <Loquacity> do you think it's worth considering something like this for the office hours too?
03:22:07 <Loquacity> hehe, yeah, midnight is sucky
03:22:19 <Loquacity> are the office hours used at all in the other TZ?
03:22:41 <fifieldt> to be honest, I don't know
03:22:47 <Loquacity> i like to think we're all fairly available around the clock, between the US contingent and the people in the southern hemisphere
03:22:53 <fifieldt> indeed
03:22:55 <fifieldt> if anything
03:23:04 <fifieldt> I think it'd be cool to have office hours during time zone overlaps
03:23:04 <Loquacity> so i'm not sure that having specific office hours is very beneficial
03:23:10 <fifieldt> AU-EU, EU-US, US-AU
03:23:12 <Loquacity> yeah, that would be wise
03:23:29 <fifieldt> so that'd be my sole suggestion
03:23:44 <Loquacity> ok, maybe annegentle and i can discuss that further when i'm there later this month
03:23:51 <Loquacity> it's a low prio, i think
03:23:54 <fifieldt> kk
03:23:58 <Loquacity> alright, that brings us to ...
03:24:02 <Loquacity> #topic Open discussion
03:24:09 <fifieldt> Suggestion: a doc bug day
03:24:13 <Loquacity> ooh, i saw that
03:24:17 <Loquacity> yes, i love the idea :)
03:24:18 <fifieldt> 24  hours of fun
03:24:27 <Loquacity> i actually wanted to do a docs bootcamp here in brisbane too
03:24:31 <fifieldt> ooh nice
03:24:52 <fifieldt> I think for focus the two events should be separated by a bit
03:24:56 <Loquacity> i agree
03:24:58 <fifieldt> do you know when you were thinking about BNE?
03:25:02 <fifieldt> new year?
03:25:08 <Loquacity> well, anne is proposing one for february
03:25:17 <Loquacity> i'd want to go to that, and then do one here afterwards
03:25:25 <Loquacity> possibly linked to pycon
03:25:32 <fifieldt> oh yes, that is a good idea
03:25:35 <fifieldt> so July then
03:25:49 * fifieldt has to be careful in Feb - OpenStack Tokyo day
03:25:52 <Loquacity> august, i think
03:26:00 <Loquacity> when is that?
03:26:05 <fifieldt> 13th and 14th of feb
03:26:10 <Loquacity> ok
03:26:22 <Loquacity> yeah, haven't heard further on anne's plans for feb yet
03:26:28 <Loquacity> but will keep my ear to the ground
03:26:44 <Loquacity> can i add an action for you for the doc bug day?
03:26:49 <fifieldt> sure!
03:26:57 <fifieldt> any suggested day/month from you
03:26:58 <fifieldt> ?
03:26:59 <Loquacity> #action fifieldt to organise a doc bug day
03:27:03 <fifieldt> I'm thinking this side of the year
03:27:09 <Loquacity> well, i'm travelling through to mid-dec
03:27:22 <Loquacity> so after that would be ideal, although we're running out of year
03:27:28 <Loquacity> i think i fly back in on the 13th
03:27:28 <fifieldt> yeah
03:27:56 <fifieldt> nick is traveling through the 2nd
03:27:57 <Loquacity> how much time do you need to organise it?
03:28:04 <fifieldt> not much time at all
03:28:10 <Loquacity> is next week too soon?
03:28:13 <fifieldt> the hardest thing is getting some proposed dates
03:28:19 <fifieldt> next week is fine
03:28:21 <fifieldt> if people are free
03:28:40 <Loquacity> ok, so i'll propose, say 27/28 nov
03:28:53 <Loquacity> or the week of 16-20 dec
03:28:56 <fifieldt> ok - I'll make a doodle poll for people to respond
03:29:06 <Loquacity> ooh, i don't know what that is
03:29:39 <fifieldt> one moment and you will see
03:29:40 <fifieldt> anyway
03:29:44 <Loquacity> ok :)
03:29:46 <fifieldt> anything else on the agenda ? :)
03:29:50 <Loquacity> nope, that's it
03:30:08 <Loquacity> #endmeeting