14:01:24 #startmeeting DocTeamMeeting 14:01:25 Meeting started Wed Jan 29 14:01:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:01:26 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:01:28 The meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting' 14:01:39 Thanks AJaeger for adding the style guide to the agenda, woot 14:01:48 #topic Action items from last meeting 14:01:59 * annegentle scurries to look 14:02:37 Ok, so the Actions were all about getting started on the separate Networking guide 14:02:56 Looks like Nick isn't here, does Sam-I-Am or Edgar have any update to report? 14:02:58 that and probably fixing the install guide 14:03:04 we're meeting again on friday 14:03:16 for some reason the second meeting got delayed a bit 14:03:22 I do have one thing, Phil Hopkins from Rackspace also wants to help, and I put him in contact with Nick and Edgar. I should've included you too, Sam-I-Am. 14:03:26 I REMEMBERED 14:03:28 Sam-I-Am: I'll introduce you to Phil via email 14:03:28 almost 14:03:34 sgordon: WOOT 14:03:38 sgordon: nice :) 14:03:39 annegentle: i saw phil on our e-mail yesterday 14:03:44 Sam-I-Am: ok cool 14:04:02 I think that's progress, honestly, as tough as it is to get 3-4 people to meet! 14:04:08 Let's call it progress :) 14:04:15 it was more difficult than i thought 14:04:25 in the meantime there was plenty of ops guide work to be done, so... 14:04:27 #info Networking Guide subgroup has met twice 14:04:33 Sam-I-Am: true true 14:04:49 Sam-I-Am: what do you think the first deliverable will be, an outline/blueprint on the wiki? 14:05:01 I can't recall 14:05:04 i also tried icehouse and the packages were broken... but i did get ML2 working on havana and i dont think it'll be much different for icehouse 14:05:09 it should be blueprints 14:05:19 from there we can restructure the install guide, figure out the book, etc 14:05:25 That's progress. 14:05:34 Ok next item 14:05:45 #topic January Monthly Google Hangout today at 20:00 UTC 14:06:16 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Google_Hangout_for_Docs 14:06:30 Lots to talk about! 14:06:55 Mostly the point is for us to get to talk in person via video 14:07:08 i'll be there 14:07:15 Sam-I-Am: excellent 14:07:20 I think we'll have a good group 14:07:51 I should make it as well... 14:07:52 Sounds like Lana won't make it but we'll have Summer and Bruce and possibly other 14:07:54 others 14:08:05 AJaeger: cool, it'll be great to see you finally :) 14:08:22 I think I'll be in the Rackspace office so you can see it, heh. 14:08:25 Yeah, finally :) 14:08:38 * AJaeger will be at home... 14:08:50 (heh I might be too depending on how my day goes, actually) 14:08:55 You can see my lovely home office 14:09:05 Okay, onward 14:09:08 #topic Webinar in February (date tbd) to update Icehouse doc/qa/infra plans 14:09:26 So the date is still not finalized -- coordinating 3 busy schedules is not easy! 14:09:32 But I have the slide deck ready to go 14:09:57 It was also useful for the Glance mid-cycle meetup this week, they used some of the slides in an etherpad to at least bring up docs 14:10:05 so, useful is good 14:10:27 what doc stuff is covered in this webinar? 14:10:30 In the area of wider communications, I've been asked to put the What's Up Doc in a blog format also so it's easily linked to 14:10:57 Sam-I-Am: the history of it is that previously the 3-4 project leads would get a speaking slot at the Summit to discuss what was decided 14:11:07 that got overwhelming with so many new projects and so little time at Summits 14:11:14 so this time around they held webinars 14:11:27 but qa/docs/infra didn't hold their webinars in the first couple of rounds 14:11:41 so we're in a holding pattern looking for a date/time 14:11:45 ahh ok 14:11:56 it's mostly about what we're working on for icehouse 14:12:32 meant to tell the widest community possible 14:12:43 #topic Doc tools update - 0.4 release of openstack-doc-tools, 1.13.0 release of clouddocs-maven-plugin 14:12:44 let me know if you need anything for the networking stuff 14:12:46 Lots of releases this week 14:12:53 Sam-I-Am: I will definitely take you up on that offer 14:13:04 Sam-I-Am: I'll look at my slide deck and email ya, ok? 14:13:08 sure 14:13:20 #action annegentle to email Sam-I-Am for networking details on a slide for webinar 14:13:53 The 0.4 release of the openstack-doc-tools went out yesterday 14:14:00 #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-doc-tools < has release notes 14:14:15 Huge improvements in the autogen options tables 14:14:31 and I LOVE the new autodoc for python-novaclient, etc. 14:14:40 That is going to make for a large CLI book, heh 14:14:54 AJaeger: great work 14:15:05 good stuff 14:15:30 AJaeger: I'm a bit distracted with the Ops Guide, but what's the next step -- are we making a CLI Reference as a separate book? Or putting in the End User Guide? 14:16:04 I don't have any plans right now here - I can do either. 14:16:27 i think it's better off in the end user guide myself 14:16:30 If you have a preference, tell me and I can give it a try... 14:16:48 AJaeger: sgordon: but didn't we say we'd want a separate CLI Ref due to the size? Any idea how large? 14:16:53 since when? 14:16:56 sgordon: at the summit? 14:16:57 we only just got rid of it lol 14:17:37 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2013-November/003252.html 14:17:43 That's from my Summit notes 14:18:17 AJaeger: I think the original preference was as a separate book 14:19:04 AJaeger: want to see what it looks like? 14:19:13 AJaeger: and people can review in gerrit? 14:19:15 annegentle, if that's still valid, give me an action item for that one 14:19:35 #action AJaeger to create a separate CLI Reference to get input from reviewers 14:19:42 AJaeger: sounds good 14:20:21 AJaeger: much as I hate to add another book, another build, etc. This one would not be a "release" one but would be continuously published. We can work on details later 14:20:26 AJaeger: if that's ok 14:20:37 sure, let's see how it looks... 14:20:52 if it's autogenned is there any reason not to have a release one? 14:21:01 for instance options can change between releases 14:21:10 sgordon: yes, because the python-novaclient doesn't follow the release schedule 14:21:18 sgordon, the release of the client packages is indepenend of the OpenStack releases - isn't it? 14:21:23 sgordon: so continuous is more accurate 14:21:36 i think that's more a theoretical take than practical though 14:21:41 in terms of how most users consume it 14:21:45 (via packaging) 14:21:58 sorry I'm late 14:21:59 nickchase: welcome! 14:22:03 hi nick 14:22:11 sgordon: oh good point, hrmity. 14:23:04 sgordon: AJaeger: I'm gonna shop both ideas on my team here at Rackspace, they'll have opinions too. I would think lots of people would pip install since they're using it on their mac, or whatever local machine 14:23:30 annegentle, ok. So, let's followup via email on that aspect. 14:23:34 AJaeger: sounds good 14:23:43 Also on Doc Tools, the 1.13.0 release of the clouddocs-maven-plugin went out, David Cramer sent a post about it. 14:23:59 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-January/003736.html 14:24:09 That got us parts in time for O'Reilly. 14:24:20 annegentle, it's used in all our repos now... 14:24:32 I don't know if other books could use parts, probably the Cloud Admin Guide could, so now that we have it we can maybe re-org the Cloud Admin Guide. 14:25:09 I don't have an action out of that, but want to be sure you all know tha'ts available. 14:25:12 Its a thought 14:25:32 nickchase: yah, I think nermina mentioned parts while she was doing analysis 14:25:43 I believe she did 14:25:49 we're working with it now 14:25:56 we'll revisit as we look at the networking content 14:26:08 Let's see, that's it for doc tools unless you have anything to add AJaeger (I don't think we have dcramer) 14:26:33 #topic Working on Oxygen licenses 14:26:44 I debugged with dcramer yesterday some of the mvn outputs and we fixed a couple of them. 14:27:04 So here at Rackspace we're renewing our Oxygen licenses, and I mentioned our OpenStack needs to the procurement person 14:27:11 I still need to follow up on how their conversation went 14:27:32 #action annegentle to find out if Oxygen XML is interested in continuing to support OpenStack with donated licenses 14:28:05 I know at boot camp we all said only people working on WADL really would need Oxygen, but training guys want it too 14:28:17 so another handful of licenses would be great 14:28:19 I'll keep ya posted 14:28:24 Okay, next topic 14:28:32 #topic Style Guide for config strings 14:28:41 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69381 14:28:59 i think it comes down to a period 14:29:04 For me the question is which of *our* guidelines we want to enforce. 14:29:05 o boy 14:29:35 i agree with diane's comment on the period 14:29:37 The two things to discuss are the "period" and the use of project names vs. nova/neutron.... 14:29:54 I haven't written back to Diane, but my thinking is that there are way more edits we'd have to do to bring it into compliance, but maybe I'm wrong? 14:30:00 I was mostly trying to reflect what I see... 14:30:18 AJaeger: you have a patch for one of the projects, right? How's that being received? 14:30:27 im sure there are but i dont think we need to do it overnight 14:30:43 annegentle, all my patches are merged with the exception of cinder - due to too heavy editing by Diane ;) 14:30:48 project names could go either way.... 14:30:51 i didnt see the project name vs. nova/neutron thing 14:31:05 i think if its referencing commands, it should probably be nova/neutron/whatever 14:31:24 oslo-incubation, oslo.messaging, ceilometer are all excepted and merged 14:31:44 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67657/ 14:32:01 AJaeger: ok 14:32:01 That's the nova/cinder etc one... 14:32:52 AJaeger: I see, adding periods really does increase readability to me. 14:32:58 AJaeger: so I'm for it! 14:33:03 hmm, the use of project names seems to fit there 14:33:09 AJaeger: sgordon: Sam-I-Am: but... project names. BLARGH 14:33:18 :> 14:33:26 I get annoyed at project names since they're meaningless until you've studied up :) 14:33:33 good point 14:33:42 * Sam-I-Am still hasnt had coffee 14:33:47 ^^ blame that 14:33:49 i would argue both the official names and the code names suffer that fate 14:33:52 telemetry anyone? 14:33:54 It's the cinder.conf file that talks about cinder ... 14:34:07 sgordon: heh 14:34:26 AJaeger: yeah, as far as context, you're in a project.conf file. 14:34:42 AJaeger: ok, I'll vote for project names not "real" names 14:34:50 AJaeger: I can comment on the style guide patch 14:35:03 AJaeger: no one else has asked you why you're editing before the style guide is approved? ;) 14:35:04 annegentle, please do (and convince Diane ;) 14:36:11 AJaeger: hee 14:36:11 here're the merged patches: 14:36:15 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67654/ 14:36:35 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67658/ 14:36:46 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67646/ 14:36:52 AJaeger: this is going to be a huge improvement. I hope people outside of docs recognize it. 14:36:55 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67647/ 14:37:10 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67659/ 14:37:23 Those were the major culprits I found 14:37:30 the rest looked fine enough... 14:37:36 AJaeger: wow only six patches in nova, that's impressive :) 14:37:48 ;) 14:37:54 AJaeger: and the hacking check is a great idea 14:38:04 wasn't my idea 14:38:07 AJaeger: now let's get the style guide to match the checks 14:38:12 exactly 14:38:27 Okay, ready for open discussion 14:38:31 #topic Open discussion 14:38:49 I do want to remind everyone that O'Reilly takes the Ops Guide 2/5 14:39:05 Doesn't mean we can't patch it, just means that patching means tougher rebasing possibly 14:39:13 and really I don't htink it'll be hard at all 14:39:19 my thinking is that they'll do a file at a time 14:39:24 which makes for very easy rebasing :) 14:39:29 there's a few questions in the upgrade section that need discussing 14:39:47 Sam-I-Am: yes and it seems like Tom is popping in though on vacation, ha 14:39:47 and i think the preface still feels a little rushed 14:39:52 just on that 14:39:58 dont forget the normal review queue either 14:40:17 tom took his vacation at a good time 14:40:25 i went through last night and there a number of patches against openstack-manuals that have been hanging out without other votes for a while 14:40:54 sgordon: yeah for sure 14:41:12 i had an unrelated query 14:41:21 is anyone from docs involved in the storyboard effort? 14:41:22 sgordon: it looks pretty clean now, openstack-manuals 14:41:36 storyboard? 14:41:37 sgordon: not that I know of, I've seen mordred going gangbusters lately though 14:41:38 annegentle, all those ones showing with +2 i did a couple of days ago 14:41:44 Sam-I-Am: storyboard is a replacement for Launchpad 14:41:50 sgordon: thank you! 14:41:53 annegentle, read: no other core has looked at them 14:42:22 sgordon: got it 14:42:30 annegentle, right - i guess my Q is if there's anything we want to see in storyboard 14:42:38 that we dont have in launchpad (glorious launchpad) 14:42:39 sgordon: I went to the Summit session 14:42:47 yeah so did i, i think 14:42:47 sgordon: hm 14:43:03 would storyboard be an openstack-specific thing? 14:43:09 Sam-I-Am: yep 14:43:20 Sam-I-Am, in as much as it's being built by openstack peeps for openstack peeps yes 14:43:28 it would theoretically be deployable elsewhere though 14:43:33 annegentle, regarding summit: Is there any sense in giving summit presentations about documentation? 14:43:35 Another news item, MirandaZhang our API doc intern has hit her halfway point in the internship 14:44:00 AJaeger: so for the "business" side, I guess we could propose, I'm not ever sure what people really want to hear about though. 14:44:08 AJaeger: for the 14:44:11 annegentle, as an example - in the feature pages for fedora/ovirt (which are very low tech) 14:44:18 AJaeger: for the "design" side we'll get about 4 slots in our track 14:44:24 annegentle, the proposer must put in a release note section 14:44:35 sgordon: now that's a nice feature 14:44:49 annegentle, I was thinking whether the business side would welcome something... 14:45:03 annegentle, that's the main thing i am thinking of in terms of it anyway 14:45:03 AJaeger: what do you think OpenStack consumers and deployers might like to know about docs? 14:45:12 i guess i need to find the relevant list and get involved 14:45:14 sgordon: yes release notes 14:45:29 I think all consumers and deployers and to know is when are we going to get docs they consider to be great. 14:45:32 sgordon: that would be AWESOME (as I really couldn't dedicate a slice of time to it) 14:45:37 annegentle, that's what I'm currently asking myself as well - is there something that makes sense for us to present to them? 14:45:54 annegentle, i think it assists with $DAYJOB so should be able to find some cycles 14:45:56 AJaeger: the user survey is well-attended, so a docs session might be as well 14:46:19 AJaeger: should I propose? Do a panel? Let's keep talking about it by 2/14 14:46:23 a docs session needs to be targeted/marketed well 14:46:34 #info Deadline for Summit proposals 2/14 14:46:48 Additional news tidbit 14:46:48 I would be happy t do a "how to get started" panel aimed at shwoing projects how to get docs for their stuff into the system 14:46:52 there is also i assume someone from the personas group proposing a session 14:47:04 so it would be good for us to be involved in that in some way or another 14:47:12 Let's discuss this a bit more on some great presentation... 14:47:22 #info Great progress on Object Storage API reference info 14:47:24 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65378/ 14:47:29 I'm on the personas team 14:47:37 sgordon: nickchase is our doc rep 14:47:40 for personas 14:47:46 can't type fast enough :) 14:47:49 :) 14:47:56 you have more topics to type about ;0 14:47:58 * AJaeger also joined the personas group 14:48:00 #info Seeking authors for a CLI Quick Start 14:48:14 nickchase: was i supposed to join that group? 14:48:35 So I've got this contact at Dzone who wants authors for one of their Refcardz 14:48:39 sam-i-am: if you have the cycles 14:48:46 #link http://refcardz.dzone.com/ 14:49:01 If you're interested, let me know 14:49:03 nickchase: i'm just going to quit my day job and stop sleeping 14:49:06 I have no idea of this is a paid gig or not 14:49:20 wait, can we go back: did we finish the summit discussion? 14:50:02 sam-i-am: not sleeping yes, but keep the day job . :) 14:50:12 nickchase: go ahead (IRC is bad for seeming to interrupt, not my intent) 14:50:44 annegentle: No problem. :) So my question is, do we want to do a panel telling devs from various projects how to get their content into docs 14:50:59 and then the next question is, do we care about anything but "core"? 14:51:01 nickchase: but that's not the audience for the 2/14 deadline 14:51:12 nickchase: our "mission" statement specifically states core only 14:51:25 nickchase, we're discussing the "business" sessions. 14:51:58 ok, so there's where I was confused: is there more than one session proposal deadline? 14:52:07 yeah 14:52:09 (core question in a minute) 14:52:12 the design summit one is much later 14:52:29 nickchase: yes. 2/14 is for the non-design-summit. The design summit deadlines will be in March 14:52:32 OK, then I yeild back the floor. thank you. :) 14:52:49 yield, even 14:53:49 annegentle: you were up to the refcardz gig 14:54:14 right 14:54:27 nickchase: but ask about the mission statement and core :) 14:54:29 i dont envy whoever has to fit a useful openstack CLI guide on a refcardz ;) 14:54:42 sgordon: hehe. his proposal is for six cards 14:54:47 or cardz :) 14:54:55 :D 14:55:07 sgordon: how much of a good reputation does dzone have? 14:55:14 pretty good afaik 14:55:18 OK, I'll ask: 14:55:26 sgordon: and they're pushing harder on cloud 14:55:28 sgordon: oh and apparently Redhat wants to sponsor, and I would like Rackspace to also sponsor, but he won't tell me an amount. 14:55:30 so this is all fun 14:55:33 there certainly who i think of when i think of these kind of cards 14:55:34 I'm writing something for their annual report this week 14:55:42 annegentle, excellent 14:55:52 annegentle, i dont know who would be organizing that off the top of my head 14:55:54 but will try find out 14:55:59 seems logical for both to co-sponsor 14:56:05 sgordon: thanks! very helpful 14:56:19 nickchase: so the next "integrated" project is trove, Database-as-a-service, for Icehouse 14:56:25 so as far as mission statement, while our mission says we focus on core, I'd like to throw out there the notion of providing access to docs for additional projects -- even if it's just links. 14:56:34 We have one patch that we reverted and will put in on 3/27 just to be closer to actual icehouse release 14:56:46 annegentle: do we have a docs liason for that? 14:56:48 nickchase: and we do that, most of the integrated projects have some doc in openstack-manuals 14:57:01 Ah, the topic I wanted to bring up: When do start documenting trove for our continous integration books? 14:57:03 nickchase: we wanted a liason per project 14:57:16 annegentle: I will get one. 14:57:18 AJaeger: I like 3/27 the Release Candidate day 14:57:18 Might need to put on the agenda for next meeting... 14:57:31 for trove, that is 14:57:31 AJaeger: yeah good thinking 14:57:51 nickchase: that would be great, they have a writer at Rackspace but she's on 3-4 services at once 14:57:54 we already make changes in some documents for Icehouse... 14:58:15 but not in a systematic way 14:58:15 nickchase: there's also Laurel Michaels who has just gotten her first patch in, who's interested in trove docs 14:58:20 nickchase: so we have potential people 14:58:26 great. 14:58:31 welcome chandankumar_! 14:58:39 ok anything else so we can yield the "room"? 14:58:41 One more bit of news, since we're almost at time: 14:58:53 Nermina has been hired by some lucky non-cloud company. 14:59:02 So I will be replacing her ASAP. 14:59:04 nickchase: NOOOOooooo........ 14:59:08 :/ 14:59:09 nickchase: but I love nermina! 14:59:10 I know, that was my reaction. 14:59:13 How sad ;( 14:59:34 On a personal level I'm thrilled for her. Professionally I'm very sad. 14:59:36 nickchase: hopefully you can use the OpenStack job board 14:59:39 alternative option... make the non-cloud company a cloud company. 14:59:44 Sam-I-Am: hee hee 14:59:48 sam-i-am: :) 14:59:49 everyone loves the cloud 14:59:51 ;) 15:00:09 annegentle: I have someone in mind but if that doesn't work out i will 15:00:10 Ok that's a sad note to leave on, but if it's best for nermina then of course I'm happy for her! 15:00:19 exactly. 15:00:21 nickchase: excellent 15:00:31 thanks all! 15:00:33 #endmeeting