15:01:03 #startmeeting fog-edge-massively-distributed-clouds 15:01:04 Meeting started Wed Sep 13 15:01:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ad_rien_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:01:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:01:07 The meeting name has been set to 'fog_edge_massively_distributed_clouds' 15:01:21 Good Morning/Afternoon 15:01:22 #chair ad_rien_ 15:01:22 Current chairs: ad_rien_ 15:01:26 #chair parus 15:01:27 Current chairs: ad_rien_ parus 15:01:34 #topic roll call 15:01:38 Hi guys 15:01:44 o/ 15:01:48 hi o/ 15:02:03 o/ 15:02:05 So as usual please put your name on the etherpad line 1159 15:02:10 hey o/ 15:02:22 o/ 15:02:23 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/massively_distributed_ircmeetings_2017 (Agenda line 1157) 15:02:24 hi o/ 15:02:41 hi all 15:02:43 hi 15:02:56 Welcome Joao... is this your first meeting? 15:02:57 Hi reedip_ ? 15:03:20 reedip_: Joao_M_Soares could you please introduce yourself please? 15:03:57 Hi , I am reedip banerjee, ( nick reedip, reedip_ ) working with NEC on Openstack since L release 15:04:11 yes, first meeting for me. My name is João, researcher at Ericsson. Been working with OpenStack scalability, mostly exploring p2p approaches 15:04:20 Welcome reedip_ 15:04:38 reedip_: could you please elaborate a bit more on your interests w-r-t the FEMDC team/WG ? 15:04:45 Joao_M_Soares: nice to see you there 15:05:27 I am currently researching on IoT and edge cloud, so this is my first meeting 15:05:32 ok cool 15:05:53 If you have a particular use-case in mind, it would be great to share it (but later in the meeting, thanks) 15:05:57 ok so let's start 15:06:09 #topic annoucement 15:06:33 parus: can you please give a short summary of the last session of OpenDev (I was not able to attend it) 15:06:48 Sure. 15:06:53 I read the etherpad but maybe you can briefly let us know what are the key takeway messages 15:07:26 Last week in SF there was an openstack dev group meeting for two full days of sessions on Edge Computing. 15:08:10 There was a lot of interest. Many links have been posted on etherpad. Feel free to surf. This morning I even found some videos on you tube. so I made a playlist for your enjoyment. 15:08:28 In particular, you may be able to see me participating in a session on architecture. 15:08:41 ok do you know what will be the followup ? 15:08:59 I read in the pad that Michael (and probably you) will arrange additional discussions? 15:09:06 How this should be organized? 15:09:13 There will be follow-up sessions that on architecture that Verizon, AT&T and myself have volunteered for. 15:09:17 Should it occur through the FEMDC meetings? 15:09:20 I think Adrien did as well. 15:09:37 The immediate action is to plan for Sydney where there will be more meetings. 15:09:43 ok 15:09:43 thanks 15:09:54 From an FEMDC perspective, 15:10:06 We did some promoting of the work of the group. 15:10:09 is there a paper from FEMDC in Sydney ? 15:10:27 reed: 15:10:27 reedip_: There are two activities. 15:10:32 reedip_: what kind of paper are you looking for ? 15:10:45 they will be two presentations and the F2F meeting 15:10:48 reedip_: there are presentations rether than "papers" 15:10:49 just asking if there is a session 15:10:53 ok 15:10:54 so yes 15:11:09 yeah sorry, I had a habit of saying papers :P , because its kind of a CFP 15:11:22 P stands for Presentation :) 15:11:23 as parus mentioned : two presentations (one on EnOS, a utility to perform performance campaign of openstack and the second one on use-cases) 15:11:25 There will be a presentation, and there will be a workgroup f2f. you will find links in earlier etherpads 15:11:39 ok 15:12:03 BTW I would like to thank parus for his involvements during thes two days in SF. 15:12:09 You did great job ;) 15:12:12 Thanks for your support ! 15:12:20 Thank you for the opportunity! 15:12:35 ad_rien_: +1 to that. Great job parus 15:13:00 Any more questions? 15:13:09 not from my side, let's wait and see 15:13:21 ok two other information to share 15:13:27 There should be two presentations: 15:13:37 one regarding the OpenStack ++ project 15:13:48 that is supported by the OpenEdgeComputing initiative 15:14:28 I do not have too much details but the presentation will be through a webex bridge 15:14:31 on Thursday 9/21. 15:14:46 at 14 UTC 15:15:02 I will confirm that by mail. If you are interested to attend it please add your email just below 15:15:11 (line 1177) 15:15:25 finally, We have to arrange another webconference with folks from Ericsson 15:15:45 Joao_M_Soares: would you please open a doodle (or something similar) in order to arrange such a presentation? 15:15:57 The idea is that you give an overview of the work you did at Ericsson 15:16:00 and the motivation 15:16:01 thanks 15:16:07 ad_rien_: sure! will do that 15:16:31 #action Joao_M_Soares Open a doodle to arrange a webconf on Ericsson P2P activities 15:16:34 thanks 15:17:02 Finally, we start to brainstorm with parus in particular on a possible roadmap for the next cycle (i.e. vancouver) 15:17:15 * ad_rien_ is looking for the link 15:17:50 #link roadmap proposal for Vancouver https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/FEDMC_OpenDev_WhatSNext 15:18:18 you can go through (ammend/complete/...) 15:18:19 ad_rien_: Thank you for putting that together. 15:18:20 Feel free 15:18:43 this is too much information :) 15:18:47 ok I think that's all from my side 15:18:54 Any other information/news to share? 15:18:58 Before vancouver... there will be sydney... 15:19:07 +1 ;) 15:19:17 There is an invitation to start brainstorming on sydney 15:19:22 We should see how progressing on the use-case question 15:19:42 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Sydney2017 15:19:58 good point 15:20:03 thanks parus for highlighting that 15:20:21 do you know what is the deadline ? 15:20:34 I just saw it this very morning. 15:21:01 #action add to the agenda: discussion on possible forum sessions 15:21:11 I think we want to take the lead and set-up a session on edge. 15:21:34 yes 15:21:44 but we should consider that we also have our F2F meeting 15:21:59 so we should find enough materials to avoid redundancies 15:22:04 maybe we can have more specific sessions 15:22:25 Agreed: Maybe we want to make our meeting the session? or maybe we want to invite others to contribute in an open session? 15:22:31 (we have also to consider who already planned to go in Sydney, if I'm right most of us will not be able to attend this summit) 15:22:49 Good point. But at opendev many said they would 15:22:59 and Verizon and AT&T in particular 15:23:09 Ok 15:23:23 so I propose that we put that to our agenda next time as a priority point to discuss ? 15:23:24 ok ? 15:23:29 OK 15:23:46 ok 15:24:04 sorry one more point to announce 15:24:13 tomorrow 5 UTC there is the WG chairs meeting 15:24:56 I will attend it but it would be nice if we can turn ;) 15:24:59 next time 15:25:06 In particular when it is 5 UTC ;-) 15:25:19 ok 15:25:23 any thing else ? 15:25:31 so let's move on the ongoing activities 15:25:39 #topic ongoing activities 15:25:50 #topic AMPQ 15:25:59 ansmith: msimonin kgiusti 15:26:06 please the floor is yours 15:26:09 Hi 15:26:36 Last two weeks were lots of distractions for me - so not much in the way of progress (epad updated) 15:26:56 significant: vhost/cells issue for amqp1 fixed in pike stable (and master) 15:27:13 so nova should Just Work with amqp1 now in pike 15:27:31 nice ! :) 15:27:32 Some ombt2 work - not checked in yet - to gather better stats for fanout and cast 15:27:57 kgiusti: let me know if I can help on ombt (code/testing) 15:28:06 but PTG prep, queens planning, and qpid release activities have swamped me last week 15:28:33 msimonin: will do - once I get ombt2 changes finalized I'd like your review and any tests you might want to throw at it 15:28:57 kgiusti: ack 15:29:06 kgiusti: are you attending the PTG in Denver? 15:29:08 kolla-ansible still hasn't merged our patch - likely due to PTG work things have been quiet 15:29:30 ad_rien_: not physically - oslo PTG has us in a video conf 15:29:47 that's about it - questions? 15:29:53 great…. 15:30:14 maybe we lost the slot… It would have been great to talk about the cockroach prototype. 15:30:22 with OSLO folks at least 15:30:39 no questions/comments? 15:30:45 regarding amqp I've put some info on the epad 15:31:07 #topic cockroach-db 15:31:13 msimonin: nice - will check that topology out 15:31:25 hey 15:31:58 the POC is still available on GitHub. Feel free to give it a try :) 15:32:07 #link https://github.com/BeyondTheClouds/openstack-cockroachdb-dev 15:32:39 I also made an email on OpenStack mailing list 15:32:45 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-September/121779.html 15:33:00 If you have any comments, do not hesitate to contribute there 15:33:07 kgiusti: I've a pet project at https://github.com/msimonin/qpid-dispatch-generator 15:33:33 I'm currently addressing lbragstad request to push some code we made to gerrit 15:33:55 ansmith: ^^^ 15:34:00 Do you have a link to the review ? 15:34:08 maybe it makes sense to just send a reminder of the achieved work. 15:34:13 But it would be cool if some of you could help me on making cockroachdb supports sql migration 15:34:21 Just to try to get some feedbacks from core-devs (keystone, oslo, ...) 15:34:36 with either sqlalchemy-migrate or alembic 15:35:01 Next for me is writing a Testplan 15:35:29 just a question 15:35:36 we are currently writing testplan for AMQP 15:35:38 something similar to what ansmith kgiusti and msimonin are doing on amqp 15:35:40 for cockroach for .... 15:35:45 rcherrueau: is there a place where the usecase for cockroach is described? 15:35:56 does it make sense to define a testplan for fog/edge infrastructure? 15:36:16 msimonin: cool generator 15:36:27 parus: no 15:36:31 :-P 15:37:04 rcherrueau: can you try that? or if you give me some background I can attempt it. 15:37:07 the idea of investigating cockroach is related to the need to be able to distribute the SQL DB 15:37:21 this is suitable for several use-cases: 15:37:37 every control services in one DC and only compute nodes. 15:37:40 parus: OK 15:37:42 At Opendev, Ian Wells and I talked about distributing keystone. 15:37:48 Would that be the use case? 15:37:54 If you want to be able to scale you need to distribute your DBs 15:37:54 parus: yep 15:38:11 parus: One use case could be, several regions 15:38:13 either wirh Galera or other technologies. Galera does not scale, so we are looking to other solutions 15:38:18 parus: one keystone per region 15:38:34 parus: and they are all synchronized with cockroachdb 15:38:36 thanks to cockroach you can distribute services that relies on a SQL DB accross several regions 15:38:44 several geographical locations 15:39:09 OK. I will take an action to write up a description of that and run it by you for next meeting. 15:40:18 Unless you want to take first crack at it. 15:40:30 ansmith: thanks :) 15:41:50 that's all for me 15:41:53 thanks 15:41:58 #topic use-cases 15:42:13 have we considered the network security for fog/edge computing use cases ? just wanted to know... 15:42:28 Network Security was discussed last week. 15:42:36 There are many aspects. 15:42:42 reedip_: could you please elaborate a bit? 15:42:50 just to know what you are considering ? 15:43:21 ad_rien_ I want to know , considering the rise in the current trneds of cyber issues 15:43:54 reedip_: it looks to me that those security issues are already present in cloud computing infrastructures 15:43:56 fog/edge would be a good option with IoT. But if we need to provide network security, specially using openstack, then have we considered it ? 15:44:06 not sure how the fog/edge context will increase those issues 15:44:17 ad_rien_ yes, thats true 15:44:27 you mean : we need additional mechanisms (i.e. that are fog/edge specifics) 15:44:48 or existing mechanisms should deliver for instance encrypted channels, .... 15:44:59 so security in cloud can also be transferred to fog/edge , like port mirroring 15:45:35 Are you talking about Neutron or about Keystone? 15:45:49 Both are important. 15:45:55 does the google docs includes a security section, maybe reedip_ can contribute 15:45:57 ok I'm not an expert but you are probably right. I just do not see why it is related to fog/edge 15:45:57 ? 15:46:02 seems to be more general 15:46:10 msimonin: good point +1 15:46:19 ad_rien_: :) 15:46:39 ad_rien_ probably, but considering that fog/edge would not be too heavy as a cloud infra is , so the requirements would change. just saying :) 15:46:57 reedip_: I agree requirements change. 15:47:05 but there are many aspects 15:47:13 Do you want to try to write up something? 15:47:44 maybe you can prepare a couple of slides as msimonin has proposed. What do you think reedip_ ? 15:47:52 parus : probably , I think I can 15:48:26 reedip_: please look up the etherpad from opendev on the topic. This was discussed in the security section and also in the zero_touch_provisioning session. 15:48:59 parus : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/opendev-sf-use-cases ? 15:49:10 parus: 12 minutes left. sorry do you want to discuss particular points? ask specific helps? 15:49:28 reed_Ip: I will send you links separately. 15:49:33 sorry for hijacking the conversation 15:49:36 ad_rien_: yes 15:49:58 I would like to see progress on testing use cases. 15:50:00 reedip_: no no, that's the goal of the irc meeting. 15:50:00 ;) 15:50:20 And actually you are going to provide one contribution so that's great ;) 15:50:28 parus: ? 15:50:34 yes 15:50:40 Which one? 15:51:02 Who can help running some enos use case that we could look at? 15:51:04 we did some preliminary test on the simple model: control services in one DC and remote nodes are just compute nodes 15:51:39 Could you share results? 15:51:47 msimonin with the support of a new engineer (he will start to work on that on Oct the 1st) 15:51:53 will focus on AMQ alternatives 15:52:04 rcherrueau will perform similar experiments but with cockroach 15:52:08 yes 15:52:16 see the boston presentation 15:52:31 and we are currently writing a research report (should be available by mid of october) 15:52:42 OK. I will look for that presentation and wait for mid-october. 15:52:49 How about the FBK use case? 15:52:51 #link https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiz8aS0wqLWAhVJtBoKHfknCisQtwIIKDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstack.org%2Fvideos%2Fboston-2017%2Ftoward-fog-edge-and-nfv-deployments-evaluating-openstack-wanwide&usg=AFQjCNEsozFpIU_qwzly1dcXtzPtDokLBg 15:53:25 I think dancn is around 15:53:25 I'm seeing them pushing some EnoS pull requests 15:53:45 but yes if dancn is there. He is definitely the best one to give some information 15:53:46 . 15:53:49 dancn: ? 15:53:54 yes, we just started with enos 15:54:14 dancn: When can we see results? Do you need help? 15:54:25 so we are triyng to port some use case to enos 15:54:39 parus: you told me that samP can help us ? 15:54:53 we started to give a look with rcherrueau and msimonin on cell v2 15:55:04 the idea is to segregate the openstack into several cells 15:55:08 each cell is a edge DC 15:55:13 parus: no results for now, we are still learning and yes rcherrueau and msimonin were a lot helpful in the past weeks 15:55:24 unfortunately Kolla does not support the cell V2. 15:55:46 If SamP has some time and he is interested by doing some investigations 15:55:49 it would be helpful 15:56:05 no need for help right now, but as soon at we get stuck we will raise an hand 15:56:29 parus:? 15:56:36 you told me that you were looking for some actions? 15:56:37 OK. Please use the email list to discuss next steps offline. 15:56:40 just a proposal :-P 15:57:00 ok 3 min left 15:57:01 we are running out of time here. But we do need actions. 15:57:23 so anything else regarding the use-case 15:57:40 (parus by conducting experiments with CELL V2 it would enable to investigate another use-case- 15:57:41 ) 15:57:53 parus : do send the links as discussed earlier :) 15:57:59 ok let's move to the open-discussion 15:58:15 #open discussion 15:58:21 #topic open-discusison 15:58:25 reedip_: please put your email address on etherpad 15:58:37 so from my side, I just want to discuss the cell V2…. but I just did it 15:58:38 so nothing more 15:58:45 the floor is yours 15:58:59 parus : done... 15:59:06 nothing ? 15:59:12 One item at Opendev was about ONAP vs Openstack 15:59:14 one minnute befoire ending the meeting 15:59:18 yes 15:59:25 parus? 15:59:37 the discussion I had with David from AT&T was positive 15:59:44 Just pointing this out, it maybe that some of the work is done a layer above openstack. 15:59:53 in the sense that both complement each other 15:59:58 ok 16:00:02 can you add it in the epad 16:00:05 we have to conclude 16:00:07 OK 16:00:08 thanks guys 16:00:09 #endmeeting