14:00:13 <markwash> #startmeeting glance
14:00:14 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug  1 14:00:13 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:15 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:17 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'glance'
14:00:39 <brianr> hi mark
14:00:52 <markwash> brianr: o/
14:01:02 <flwang> o/
14:01:16 <iccha> \o
14:01:20 <zhiyan> ops, time changed?
14:01:29 <jbresnah> o/
14:01:40 <nikhil> o/
14:02:42 <flwang> markwash: what's the agenda today?
14:02:52 <markwash> good question!
14:02:54 <markwash> #topic agenda
14:03:06 <markwash> I meant to talk about documentation stuff some last week but forgot
14:03:21 <flwang> yep, good topic
14:03:32 <flwang> the homework assigned to you :)
14:03:49 <markwash> and I'd like to review any blueprint progress we've made, give people a chance to highlight reviews
14:04:01 <zhiyan> good point
14:04:07 <markwash> so, from me *blueprint progress and *docs
14:04:22 <markwash> any other items folks want to talk about that aren't covered under bp progress?
14:05:56 <markwash> okay, maybe we'll think of something along the way
14:06:01 <markwash> #topic docs
14:06:10 <markwash> so I did finally contact annegentle
14:06:13 <jbresnah> perhaps a review day/bug squash day
14:06:41 <iccha> markwash: and?
14:07:01 <markwash> and I got a great response, main items were
14:07:30 <markwash> glance/doc/source should contain stuff for contributors, which is probably a good catchall for design, relevant history, and api spec plans
14:07:47 <markwash> and openstack/image-api should contain our spec documentation
14:08:31 <markwash> also openstack/api-site/ is for api reference, but I'm not really sure what that means apart from the spec. . .
14:08:51 <markwash> I haven't taken the chance to determine what kind of state those various places are in
14:08:58 <flwang> markwash: i think the api-site is update to date, just need recheck
14:08:59 <iccha> yeah the different between image-api and api-site?
14:09:27 <flwang> iccha: +1 what's the image-api mean here?
14:10:15 <markwash> one final thing, before I forget, is openstack/openstack-manuals for installation / administration info, there might be some elements of that we want to contribute to as developers
14:10:28 <markwash> iccha: I'm as confused as anyone about the distinction
14:11:39 <iccha> i feel like we need a doc day or something, or atleast split the effort. the current document is in different states from some info being incorrect, inconsistent to some latest details being there
14:11:48 <iccha> dont know if thats stretching it
14:12:41 <markwash> something to that tune would make a lot of sense
14:13:30 <markwash> it also looks like there's a divide in the image-api repo
14:13:31 <flwang> so until now, we mentioned: 1.  openstack/doc/source  2. api-site   3. installation/admin doc
14:13:43 <markwash> with v1 in docbooks, and v2 in markdown
14:14:24 <brianr> api-site looks like a split from openstack-manuals, it's got the quickstart guides in it
14:14:52 <brianr> i wish they would stop moving stuff, it is very confusing
14:15:09 <zhiyan> brianr: +1
14:15:24 <markwash> I'm stuggling for a strategy, how we can have the most impact before H is released
14:15:58 <iccha> markwash: maybe we should start with the doc/source becuase thats something as devs we can start working on right away
14:16:10 <flwang> iccha: +1
14:16:13 <markwash> I buy that
14:16:17 <iccha> and then if we have the meat information, it can be ported to other places
14:16:34 <iccha> the installation guide may require some additional work tho
14:16:52 <brianr> i will get info into the "operator docs" (which you haven't mentioned!)
14:16:54 <flwang> I can recheck the api-site
14:17:17 <markwash> sorry, slightly distracted, cats attacking each other
14:17:39 <brianr> flwang: +1 , that needs to be updated for the current glanceclient
14:17:50 <markwash> brianr: which operator docs?
14:18:00 <flwang> operator guide?
14:18:05 <brianr> https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals
14:18:17 <brianr> it's where the common images properties went for grizzly
14:18:24 <markwash> okay gotcha
14:18:37 <brianr> it's where some config info for protected props should go
14:18:51 <markwash> it might also make sense as a first effort for people to go through and submit patches to remove the out-of-date or incorrect portions of whatever is out there
14:18:56 <iccha> so apart from the 3 points flwang listed there is a 4. operator docs?
14:19:01 <markwash> I'm not sure there is a lot of that, but there might be some
14:19:23 <markwash> oh and, FWIW we're not necessarily on the hook for all of these
14:19:34 <markwash> hence, starting with the one in our source tree does make a lot of sense
14:19:54 <flwang> yep
14:20:01 <markwash> so it sounds like we have some volunteers to look into and assess the ones on our list?
14:20:29 <brianr> yep
14:20:47 <flwang> flwang:   api-site,     brianr:  operators doc
14:20:53 <iccha> markwash: +1 there must be some sort of split up so we dont step on notes. an etherpad or soem sort of communication so we all know whose looking into what
14:21:15 <iccha> even if its just docs in glance repo
14:21:16 <boris-42> Hi all
14:21:18 <boris-42> =)
14:21:23 <iccha> hey boris-42
14:21:27 <flwang> iccha: can you help create a etherpad link to track this?
14:21:54 <iccha> https://etherpad.openstack.org/glance_documentation_efforts
14:21:58 <flwang> then we can update our status on that and everyone know each other's focus to avoid overlap
14:22:00 <flwang> cool
14:22:02 <flwang> thanks
14:23:55 <markwash> so did we agree the first step is essentially review?
14:24:04 <markwash> or is that already done to some extent elsewhere?
14:24:59 <flwang> markwash: i agree the first item we need to do is figuring out the out-of-date stuff
14:25:06 <brianr> i think iccha and eddie already did a review
14:25:14 <brianr> it's on an etherpad somewhere
14:25:19 <markwash> ah, lord, apparently I'm just completely behind on this issue :-/
14:25:22 <iccha> markwash: i think it could be done simelatanesouly. while some ppl identity the purpose/state of soem resources. we need to identify a central source of truth where we start contributing
14:25:53 <brianr> we should probably file documentation bugs
14:26:03 <iccha> https://etherpad.openstack.org/glance_etherpad_list - etherpad of all glance etherpads . the stuff esheffield and me worked on is like api related
14:26:04 <brianr> that way, we won't step on each otehr
14:26:30 <markwash> brianr, iccha: +1
14:27:33 <markwash> brianr: are those like  bugs to a specific project? or just glance bugs with some docs tag?
14:28:08 <brianr> markwash: it's kind of complicated, like take a look at this one:https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1195473
14:28:33 <brianr> so it's a bug for openstack-manuals, and it's linked back to glance
14:29:15 <markwash> gotcha, that makes sense
14:29:16 <brianr> i think if we are going to write doc, we do something like that
14:29:34 <brianr> if we just want to alert the doc people, we put the doc impact tag in the regular bug
14:29:46 <iccha> hmm ok so here is the thing. if we make it too complicated it might deter ppl from going into quick update glance docs mode. so either we need one person owning maintaining this docs bugs and make sure they get tagged and etc or ppl being able to just enter what they re doing and jump onto it.
14:30:08 <brianr> iccha: you are right, it is a PITA
14:30:31 <brianr> how about i follow up with Anne and get better instructions about how/where we should file stuff
14:30:55 <iccha> brianr: sounds good and if meanwhile ppl feel like updating glance/doc/source they are welcome to file a bug and do it?
14:31:04 <iccha> thanks for taking the onerous task brianr :)
14:32:15 <markwash> okay, we have *some* action items here
14:32:28 <brianr> yes, i think we own glance/doc/source, so we do whatever we want there
14:32:36 <iccha> so maybe action item is brianr will give us a step by step how to file glance doc bugs and which projects to associate it with?
14:33:05 <iccha> brianr: +1 on us gettign started with this if we want and keep contributing to glance/doc/source but remembering to file a bug for it before
14:33:26 <markwash> and flwang, you had said you were going to look into api-site somewhat?
14:33:52 <flwang> markwash: yep, will check if it's update to date and update it
14:34:08 <flwang> make sense?
14:34:30 <markwash> good
14:34:40 <markwash> let's move on to blueprints, any objections?
14:34:46 <brianr> no objections!
14:34:47 <iccha> go for it!
14:34:54 <markwash> #topic current blueprint progress
14:35:15 <markwash> iccha: brianr indicated you would most likely begin work on api protected properties this week
14:35:22 <markwash> did that come to pass?
14:35:43 <iccha> markwash: some intial work has started https://github.com/isethi/glance/tree/protected_p
14:36:29 <markwash> timeline for H-3 still feels reasonable?
14:36:55 <markwash> iccha: ^^
14:36:58 <iccha> markwash: yes def doable
14:37:00 <markwash> cool
14:37:09 <brianr> anyone interested in protected properties, please take a look at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance-property-protections-product and put questions on the FAQ if you have 'em
14:37:24 <markwash> how about async work, there are a number of people interested in that. . any progress?
14:37:34 <markwash> flwang: brianr ^^ ?
14:37:53 <brianr> flwang and nikhil have been working on an etherpad
14:38:10 <iccha> whats the link ? :p  need to add it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/glance_etherpad_list
14:38:15 <brianr> i think anyone interested should take a look, and let's meet today or tomorrow?
14:38:16 <flwang> Ihttps://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-glance-requirements
14:38:24 <markwash> sketching out code design, basically?
14:38:31 <brianr> https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-glance-requirements
14:38:45 <brianr> and some use cases to provoke design
14:38:49 <nikhil> markwash: code design, rearch, more use cases(corner cases) etc
14:39:01 <nikhil> basically, a careful one to implement so it seems
14:39:16 <nikhil> added some comments based on convo last night
14:39:23 <flwang> nikhil: did you touch the task api part?
14:39:36 <iccha> i remember markwash had some poc work on async workers
14:39:37 <markwash> brianr: meeting tomorrow could be great
14:39:44 <iccha> +1
14:40:04 <nikhil> people state adding in your names there
14:40:11 <flwang> iccha: yep, I know that. I'm going to implement it based on markwash's work
14:40:20 <brianr> flwang: what time zone are you in?
14:40:34 <nikhil> flwang: brianr markwash iccha we need to divide tasks
14:40:36 <flwang> Beijing, China
14:40:49 <nikhil> flwang: he means wrt UTC
14:40:52 <flwang> so I think UTC+8:00
14:41:45 <markwash> I'd like to attend as well
14:41:57 <brianr> would this time work?
14:42:14 <markwash> probably
14:42:15 <nikhil> brianr: may be a doodle?
14:42:35 <nikhil> in UTC :)
14:42:52 <flwang> brianr: you can plan it on my night, it's ok
14:42:57 <brianr> so 14:00 UTC, i think?
14:43:06 <markwash> Friday night glance party!
14:43:10 <flwang> the tomorrow, the same time?
14:43:12 <markwash> byob
14:43:23 <jbresnah> heh
14:43:41 <brianr> etherpad party!
14:43:47 <flwang> brianr: it works for me
14:43:50 <markwash> let's sort this out after the meeting if we aren't already settled
14:44:02 <markwash> zhiyan: got any reviews to highlight for us for your various bps?
14:44:17 <zhiyan> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37222/3
14:44:26 <zhiyan> probable need flaper87 input: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37421/1
14:44:57 <markwash> ah yes, that second one looks a little stuck
14:45:12 <markwash> I tried to wrap my head around the issues, and couldn't quite figure it out
14:45:26 <markwash> but I know jerdfelt is a smart guy, so I'm a little worried
14:46:12 <markwash> zhiyan: maybe sometime we can track that down on irc with flaper87 and jerdfelt
14:46:22 <markwash> today or tomorrow. . I think he's in my timezone
14:46:30 <markwash> zhiyan: does that cover it for now?
14:46:35 <zhiyan> and for Scrubber-refactoring, i'm working on it, as our discussed, but from tomorrow to next Tuesday i need attend a meetings in office, will spend some time on that..
14:46:42 <markwash> gotcha
14:46:56 <markwash> jbresnah: any work on super simple quotas?
14:47:07 <zhiyan> markwash: so, sorry, seems i'm not available tomorrow...
14:47:08 <markwash> (which I forgot to add to the H-3 list, but will fix immediately)
14:47:23 <markwash> zhiyan: I'll ask flaper about it next I see him then
14:47:25 <jbresnah> markwash: yeah i have a patch out there
14:47:32 <jbresnah> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37993
14:47:49 <jbresnah> zhiyan: left some comments that i am addressing, but the general idea is there
14:48:19 <jbresnah> i also have a nova patch, but that is OT here
14:48:35 <jbresnah> but it relates to direct-url work
14:48:48 <markwash> cool
14:49:11 <markwash> boris-42: your group has a number of db-related patches out for the oslo db blueprints
14:49:24 <markwash> care to mention them or other concerns here?
14:49:29 <boris-42> markwash not so much=)
14:49:54 <boris-42> markwash so we are working in whole openstack, we would like to use common DB code in all projects
14:49:58 <zhiyan> jbresnah: btw, as i mentioned, seems nfs-driver patch maybe drop some challenge in for your 'metadata' idea (which based on file-store) ...
14:50:18 <boris-42> nova, neutron, cinder, ironic already use this code
14:50:27 <boris-42> and there is no problems with it
14:50:49 <markwash> yeah, it looks like there are a number of good fixes in the patches
14:50:59 <iccha> i do know that this will offer some benefits like tpooling and softdelete code. but i am not sure if it has anything missing which glance needs
14:51:30 <markwash> I'm a little meh on the timestamp mixins. . not sure that DRY really goes that far I guess
14:51:40 <boris-42> markwash It will
14:51:46 <boris-42> markwash but it requires migrations
14:51:53 <jbresnah> zhiyan: perhaps, but there are other filesystem stores besides nfs
14:51:53 <zhiyan> iccha: +1 ,also interested in that part.
14:52:03 <jbresnah> and other storage systems besides file, etc
14:52:15 <boris-42> markwash using oslo db code is just start point
14:52:24 <boris-42> markwash of global DB cleanup
14:52:51 <boris-42> markwash such as soft_delete + unique constraints, alembic instead of sqlaclhemy-migrate
14:53:10 <boris-42> markwash and so on
14:53:36 <zhiyan> seems cool
14:53:47 <markwash> boris-42: out of curiousity, have you or your team thought much about non-sql based backends?
14:54:14 <boris-42> we would like to use non-sql, to allow easier way to make now downtime updates
14:54:27 <boris-42> but it will be soooo hard to put it in OpenStack=)
14:54:34 <iccha> markwash: was it you or someone else who was mentioning some sort of db abtraction so its database indepedent
14:54:50 <boris-42> in nova, cinder we have db.api
14:54:54 <boris-42> iccha ^
14:54:56 <markwash> iccha: I have some work in that direction, but not a lot of push from anyone internally to push it further
14:55:08 <boris-42> it allows us to isolate and implement different backends
14:55:18 <boris-42> But this thing is connected with unit tests
14:55:30 <boris-42> and unit tests should be run also with different backends
14:55:42 <flwang> markwash: did you mean we are interested in using no-sql as the db backend? such as mongo? Hbase?
14:55:51 <markwash> flwang: yes
14:56:03 <flwang> great, I love it
14:56:14 <markwash> mostly I'm interested in redefining the db abstraction layer so that it doesn't implicitly put business logic in the db drivers
14:56:15 <boris-42> markwash flwang first of all we should make our tests independent from sqlalchemy
14:56:32 <markwash> boris-42: I think we have that to a fair degree in glance
14:56:46 <markwash> anyway, I'd be interested in your perspective on what we do have there
14:57:04 <markwash> boris-42: any reviews you want to highlight here? I know we can find them as well, so maybe that is enough
14:57:08 <nikhil> markwash: +1 interested in db abstraction (a lot)
14:57:29 <boris-42> markwash about db abstraction
14:57:42 <flwang> we can take some reference from ceilometer
14:57:50 <esheffield> +1 likewise - I was actually giving some thought to non-sql approaches this morning
14:57:51 <boris-42> markwash I am not sure that full isolation of logic and DB is good poing
14:57:57 <flwang> I will do some investigation
14:57:58 <markwash> #topic open discussion
14:58:02 <boris-42> markwash it is clear
14:58:05 <markwash> (seems like that's what we're doing)
14:58:17 <markwash> boris-42: there are some definite risks
14:58:18 <brianr> quick tasks question: so we have asynchronous image tasks, s'pose someone starts an export and then deletes the image, do we:
14:58:27 <brianr> 1 - end task with error, they were stupid
14:58:28 <brianr> 2 - "lock" the image somehow until the task is completed
14:58:38 <brianr> this will be a problem for cloning since the glance-to-glance coordination may take some time, you originate task request in region T but the image is in region S, someone else working in your account in image S doesn't know about the clone request, and could delete image before it gets cloned
14:58:52 <brianr> i'm wondering whether something like the task_state that nova has on instances might be needed here?
14:58:55 <jbresnah> brianr: there are many issues regarding the asycn task work like that which concern me actually
14:59:14 <boris-42> markwash hmm I have some thoughts about DB code and tests in glance
14:59:27 <iccha> jbresnah: do u see any overlap with staccato?
14:59:29 <boris-42> markwash as we should make baby steps
14:59:30 <bourke> will throw this out, have added a blueprint for porting Swift's ratelimiting to Glance.  Is this something people would be interested in?
14:59:34 <markwash> brianr: also, 3 - use reference counts for deletes. . . task would hold a temporary reference. . that might be very strained
14:59:37 <flwang> brianr: we need some "lock" just like Nova does
14:59:44 <brianr> guess we r out of time, should we discuss on mailing list?
15:00:00 <flwang> or the glance irc channel?
15:00:00 <jbresnah> iccha: good questions, in some areas yes
15:00:00 <boris-42> markwash probably it will be best solution to implement db.api as in Nova (it is pretty easy), and remove dependency from sqla in tests?)
15:00:23 <jbresnah> iccha: but i worry about going to far down the road into becoming a generic job scheduler
15:00:25 <brianr> flwang: maybe after async worker meeting tomorrow?
15:00:31 <nikhil> flwang: not on irc
15:00:45 <nikhil> seems like many poepl are interested
15:00:45 <ameade_> time
15:00:46 <ameade_> lol
15:00:51 <nikhil> and don't want to miss on input
15:01:07 <brianr> ok, i will send out my question to mailing list
15:01:07 <flwang> nikhil: ok, got
15:01:11 <jbresnah> brianr: i think you would need tpo reference count the image
15:01:11 <nikhil> thanks
15:01:26 <nikhil> we need atomicity
15:01:26 <flwang> it's time to run
15:01:33 <markwash> #endmeeting