14:06:52 <flaper87> #startmeeting Glance
14:06:57 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Nov 26 14:06:52 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:59 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:07:00 <flaper87> w00000h000000000000000
14:07:00 <kragniz> \o/
14:07:01 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'glance'
14:07:03 <Jokke_> \\o \o/ o// o/7
14:07:08 <flaper87> #topic Agenda
14:07:15 <flaper87> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-team-meeting-agenda
14:07:28 <flaper87> As usual, that's the link to our, very dynamic, agenda
14:07:39 <flaper87> #topic Next week is Mitaka-1: FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIRE FIIIIIIIRE (flaper87)
14:07:53 <flaper87> Just want to give everyone a heads up that next week is the M-1 cut off
14:08:01 <flaper87> Few notes on that
14:08:19 <flaper87> It'd be great to focus our reviews a bit more on bug fixes for the rest of this week and next one
14:08:27 <flaper87> Look out for failures and gate stability
14:08:47 <flaper87> It should be painless since that's normally the csae for the first milestone of th ecycle
14:08:56 <flaper87> however, we know Murphy and we all hate him
14:09:08 <flaper87> I'll let everyone know when the cut is done
14:09:33 <flaper87> Also, if you're part of the bug triage team,  we could use some help triaging bugs and targeting to the right milestone
14:09:42 <flaper87> especially for bugs that have patches that had already landed
14:09:58 <flaper87> That's all from me
14:10:05 <flaper87> Are there questions? comments? feedback?
14:10:13 <Jokke_> also feel free to tag with backport-candidate for anything you think could be backported
14:10:17 <Jokke_> thanks
14:10:26 <flaper87> Jokke_: ++
14:10:44 <flaper87> ooooooooooooooooooooooooook, moving on
14:10:54 <flaper87> #topic Bug report and review process (flaper87)
14:11:30 <flaper87> I've seen several cases (not going to point fingers on anyone) of bugs being reported and patches being proposed 2 seconds after the bug goes public
14:11:45 <flaper87> while I'm very happy to see this and it's super cool to have patches fixing bugs
14:12:13 <flaper87> this is causing an issue from a bug triage perspective as those bugs are basically being self-triaged
14:12:27 <flaper87> It's happened that these very same bugs are the ones that land w/ a milestone proposed
14:12:54 <flaper87> Since I don't want to tell people to not propose patches (that would be insane), I'm now calling out reviewers on this
14:13:06 <flaper87> Please, do not blindly approve patches w/ reviewing the bug
14:13:24 <flaper87> if a bug doesn't have a milestone set, please, ping me or any of the drivers
14:13:49 <flaper87> The bug should also have an importance set as that's what is also being used as a criteria for backports
14:14:05 <flaper87> and, if the bug never went from New -> triaged/confirmed then please, try to verify the bug
14:14:10 <nikhil_k> +1
14:14:39 <nikhil_k> (I found one reviewing)
14:14:44 <Jokke_> and do not set the importance apart from wishlist (feature request) if you can verify it
14:14:54 <Jokke_> can't even
14:14:59 <flaper87> Bugs that go from New -> In progress are the ones that haven't been verified and we need to have second tests to avoid approving bug fixes for things that may be a misconfiguration
14:15:12 <flaper87> right!
14:15:17 <flaper87> ok, that's it from me
14:15:28 <flaper87> I hope I didn't come off harsh and that the rant didn't offend anyone
14:15:35 <flaper87> I do like all this bugs+patches
14:15:50 <flaper87> but I hope you can understand the impact that has from a release/management perspective
14:15:58 <Jokke_> closed bug is the best kind of bug
14:15:59 <kragniz> so this is about setting milestone, importance etc rather than the act of fileling a bug and submitting a patch at the same time?
14:16:03 <mclaren> the core of this is don't merge unconfirmed bugs?
14:16:06 <kragniz> for clarification
14:16:29 <flaper87> mclaren: kragniz don't merge unconrimed/untriaged/untargeted bugs
14:16:35 <flaper87> that's the TL;DR
14:16:39 <kragniz> cool
14:16:55 <flaper87> unconfirmed even
14:17:02 <mclaren> so mark confirmed, set the target, then merge?
14:17:31 <flaper87> if the bug is "In Progress" changing the status would break the process so, I'd recommend commenting with a confirmation
14:17:38 <nikhil_k> well sometimes people don't set the importance but confirm it on comments and I think that's fine
14:18:37 <nikhil_k> glance bug team is open to public and mirco-managing would be tricky
14:18:39 <flaper87> ok, anything else? feedback? yells? concerns?
14:18:49 <flaper87> nikhil_k: ++
14:19:04 <kragniz> flaper87: sounds good to me
14:19:22 <flaper87> Reviewer's *must* click on the bug link and read through before approving patches :)
14:19:26 <flaper87> Reviewers
14:19:28 <flaper87> ok
14:19:29 <flaper87> moving on
14:19:39 <flaper87> #topic python-glanceclient 1.2.0 and 1.1.2(?) released
14:19:42 <flaper87> Jokke_: ^?
14:19:45 <flaper87> I guess that's you
14:20:06 <Jokke_> yeah, Noticed that it wasn't in our meeting agenda so must have slipped
14:20:35 <flaper87> yup
14:20:44 <Jokke_> we did tag releases on master and I'm just trying to check irt was either from kilo or Liberty where we tagged release as well ... that was days ago and gates looking good
14:20:59 <flaper87> yeah, we announced that last week
14:21:02 <flaper87> didn't we?
14:21:10 <flaper87> 0.17.3
14:21:13 <flaper87> that's kilo
14:21:35 <Jokke_> k sorry for spam then
14:21:41 <flaper87> no worries
14:21:46 <flaper87> #topic Glance_store 0.10.0 release requested probably either today or early next week
14:21:50 <Jokke_> and the next is mine as well
14:21:50 <flaper87> ok, that one is new for sure
14:21:53 <flaper87> :D
14:21:57 <Jokke_> so glance_store going out
14:22:00 <Jokke_> keep eyes open
14:22:06 <Jokke_> major note
14:22:32 <Jokke_> store configs under [DEFAULT] got removed after deprecation
14:22:52 <flaper87> w000h000000
14:22:53 <kragniz> Jokke_: shouldn't that really bump the major version?
14:22:53 <Jokke_> so might cause some unexpected. That's in the release highlight as well as in the release notes
14:23:02 <flaper87> Jokke_: thanks for handling the release
14:23:05 <kragniz> (assuming we're following semver)
14:23:25 <flaper87> kragniz: we are under 0.* still
14:23:30 <nikhil_k> if it is needed it will be caught prior to release
14:23:34 <kragniz> flaper87: I guess so
14:23:37 <flaper87> I mean, in theory it should but the library is not considered stable yet
14:23:39 <Jokke_> kragniz: I was wondering that as well
14:23:49 <flaper87> That's how I feel about it, at least
14:23:50 <flaper87> :P
14:24:17 <flaper87> not sure what others think
14:24:17 <kragniz> flaper87: yeah, makes sense
14:24:37 <Jokke_> kragniz: but like Flavio said and minor version was expected by others
14:24:51 <nikhil_k> I think if this breaks stuff we may need to release 6.0.0 like pip :P
14:24:59 <flaper87> LOL
14:25:02 <Jokke_> Oh this most probably does not happen today but next week due to thanks giving I doubt dhellmann is around to answer on this either ;)
14:25:16 <flaper87> right
14:25:18 <kragniz> if we're still planning the large glance_store api refactor, it's a lot easier to keep it under 0.*
14:25:29 <kragniz> I'm fine with 0.10.0
14:25:33 <Jokke_> kragniz: ++
14:25:37 <flaper87> I believe that's still planned, I saw the spc up again
14:25:40 <Jokke_> some day we get there
14:25:43 <nikhil_k> he's in eu somewhere, somone ask him in person :P
14:25:58 <flaper87> okidoki, moving on
14:26:04 <flaper87> #topic Community Feedback
14:26:14 <flaper87> This is not a really long topic but more of an open question
14:26:50 <flaper87> I'm on a mission of gathering feedback from folks in the Glance community about.. well... Glance. I'll likely ping you on IRC looking for this info
14:26:58 <flaper87> Somethings I'd love to hear from you all are:
14:27:11 <flaper87> 1. How do you feel about the Glance community?
14:27:17 <flaper87> 2. What would you like to change?
14:27:31 <flaper87> 3. What's your impression about the reviews rate, feedback, etc?
14:27:46 <flaper87> 4. What areas of Glance itself would you like to improve next?
14:27:54 <flaper87> And whatever comes to your mind
14:28:04 <flaper87> Feel free to share them in openstack-glance or in private
14:28:12 <flaper87> I'd love to get that feedback from you all
14:28:17 <flaper87> and it won't take you long
14:28:19 <flaper87> :D
14:28:24 <flaper87> it's all for the best, I promise
14:28:31 <nikhil_k> we need to have our own foundation :P (jk)
14:28:31 * flaper87 does his evil laugh
14:28:48 * flaper87 votes for nikhil_k to the board
14:29:02 <flaper87> That's it!
14:29:12 <flaper87> Please, share your thoughts. I'm looking forward to them
14:29:47 <flaper87> Also, feel free to rant and complain about patches, bugs and anything else
14:29:48 <flaper87> :D
14:29:52 <flaper87> #topic Reviews, Bugs
14:29:58 <flaper87> Adding 'docker' as container_format https://review.openstack.org/249282 (mclaren)
14:30:07 <mclaren> that's me
14:30:40 <mclaren> I guess this is a fairly binary "do we want this or not". It's kind of a one line change at heart.
14:30:48 <mclaren> what do folks feel about this?
14:31:11 <flaper87> I don't mind having it, tbh.
14:31:20 <flaper87> I do have some questions that I'd like to raise on the bug/review
14:31:30 <flaper87> and I'd like to understand where nikhil_k was coming from
14:31:44 <mclaren> nikhil_k: where were you coming from? :-)
14:31:45 <nikhil_k> Why is that a question? (asking seriously not rhetorically)
14:31:58 <Jokke_> I'd like to have it and enable the nova-docker team to work without needing to add it to configs every time. But I'd really like to hear where all that fuzz came from?
14:32:02 <kragniz> I'm going to be honest, I don't quite get the amount of pushback this change is getting
14:32:18 <mfedosin> as I said, I don't see any problems with that
14:32:31 <mclaren> tbh it was more noise than pushback imho
14:32:33 <flaper87> kragniz: it's not really a pushback. I think the only think that was asked was to follow a bit of a process
14:32:38 <flaper87> my request was to have a lite-spec
14:32:44 <nikhil_k> flaper87: exactly
14:32:46 <flaper87> just to have a way to track it
14:32:56 <Jokke_> mclaren, flaper87: I think -2 is pretty clear pushback, not noise ;P
14:33:09 <nikhil_k> and I remember we discussing that like Nova is it's API affecting change it needs a full spec
14:33:14 <flaper87> Jokke_: wait, I requested the -2 on IRC. It's my fault for not doing it myself
14:33:24 <mclaren> Jokke_: actually, yes. noise and pushback
14:33:27 <flaper87> the reason I requested it is the same reason I just talked about proper bug triage
14:33:45 <flaper87> because I was afraid it'd have been merged without a propre triage
14:33:49 <mclaren> I guess one thing to bear in mind is that I don't think the reviewer got a clear idea of what we wanted. Did we communicate what a lite-spec is?
14:33:51 <Jokke_> nikhil_k: it's not API affecting change
14:34:00 <nikhil_k> and I feel that calling it a `pushback` is noise now
14:34:13 <flaper87> mclaren: we can't because the docs for that haven't been reviewed *hint* *hint*
14:34:33 <Jokke_> we don't add APIImpact on every image-create and image-delete call because those changes the output of image-get and image-list :P
14:34:44 <mclaren> so we requested a lite spec which isn't a thing yet?
14:34:52 <flaper87> mclaren: it is a thing
14:34:58 <flaper87> the docs haven't been merged
14:35:05 <flaper87> we've talked about it in glance drivers meetings several times
14:35:14 <flaper87> and we have several bugs filed as lite-specs
14:35:23 <flaper87> So, again
14:35:31 <nikhil_k> if the schema changes and can potentially break clients it's a API change Jokke_
14:35:41 <flaper87> I don't think there was a pushback on the feature, there was just a request for some process
14:35:50 <flaper87> Should we have used -1 instead of -2? probably
14:35:52 <Jokke_> nikhil_k: break client?
14:35:57 <nikhil_k> the schema API call will be different (look at my comment)
14:36:04 <mclaren> flaper87: Ok. I'm just not sure Dave was left with a super clear path forward.
14:36:04 <flaper87> Could this have been communicated better to the committer? Sure, I agree
14:36:18 <flaper87> mclaren: I agree with that
14:36:23 <mfedosin> nikhil_k: schema won't change
14:36:52 <mclaren> So I will review the lite-spec to help out here. And we can reference that in future. Problem solved!
14:37:11 <flaper87> mclaren: thank you :D
14:37:16 <Jokke_> nikhil_k: IIRC last time we were fighting with the schema issues we made sure that clanceclient does not use cached schemas, so that should not be the case ;)
14:37:22 <flaper87> mclaren: disclaimer: you'll have to deal with my english
14:37:23 <flaper87> hahahaha
14:37:25 <kragniz> flaper87: okay, that clarifies it
14:37:38 <mclaren> Porque no es en Espanol?
14:37:56 <flaper87> Jokke_: kragniz mfedosin mclaren FWIW, the technical discussion we're having here is awesome and I'd like this to be reflected on the bug!
14:38:05 <Jokke_> mfedosin: the schema should change based on the different accepted values
14:38:21 <flaper87> Otherwise we'll have lengthy discussions burried in IRC logs and no comments on the lite-spec, which we should use to discuss proposals
14:38:23 <flaper87> :D
14:38:27 <Jokke_> I think container_type is one of the things delivered there
14:38:46 <flaper87> mclaren: lol, I mean, I could. That'd be way easier
14:38:47 <flaper87> :D
14:38:49 <Jokke_> flaper87: I add link to the logs after the meeting :P
14:39:03 <mfedosin> Jokke_: ah yes, you're right
14:39:09 <mclaren> Entonces, cambiamos? lol
14:39:10 <flaper87> Jokke_: sounds great. Or copy/paste the convo removing the parts not related
14:39:31 <nikhil_k> should we rather have this meeting in spanish?
14:39:59 <Jokke_> Mita jos kaikki vaan kaytetaan omaa aidinkieltamme? :P
14:40:02 <flaper87> ok, I hope it's clear that no one is rejecting the feautre.
14:40:14 <flaper87> I'll comment on the review and apologize for the lack of proper communication and support
14:40:19 <mclaren> someone's keyboard is broken
14:40:25 <nikhil_k> flaper87: we still need to conclude on this API change -- breaking or otherwsie
14:41:01 <mclaren> so container_format is configurable
14:41:02 <flaper87> nikhil_k: yes! Fully agree. I'll read through your comments and the discussion you and Jokke_ just had
14:41:08 <nikhil_k> and I will get in touch with Drew in one of our mtgs
14:41:31 <nikhil_k> flaper87: ok, thanks. I will move my -2 back to -1
14:41:39 <mclaren> so existing deployments can return customized json
14:41:49 <mclaren> ie add whatever formats they like
14:42:03 <mclaren> I guess my question is 'is this an api change?'
14:42:18 <flaper87> also, bare in mind that we'll have a version bump in mitaka anyway because of the import process changes
14:42:21 <Jokke_> If it is, DefCore is so going to love us
14:43:08 <nikhil_k> I doubt it if it will affect defcore
14:43:17 <nikhil_k> the whole thing is so far in the future and undecided
14:43:19 <kragniz> flaper87: I forget the process. Do we have two bumps for each new thing, or a bump for a few things in a cycle?
14:43:33 <flaper87> kragniz: 1 bump for few things
14:43:34 <nikhil_k> ideally the same patch
14:43:40 <kragniz> flaper87: cool
14:43:40 <Jokke_> kragniz: bump for each release where something bumpworthy has merged
14:43:51 * flaper87 likes bumpworthy
14:43:57 <nikhil_k> but since we do milestone based releases it's okay to do before the official release
14:43:58 <flaper87> ok, lets give time to other topics
14:44:14 <flaper87> Spec-lite https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/1489534 (bunting)
14:44:14 <openstack> Launchpad bug 1489534 in python-glanceclient "Move metadef commands to sub-commands" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Niall Bunting (niall-bunting)
14:44:19 <bunting> Thats me
14:44:37 <bunting> Just bring this spec lite into the light for moving metadefs into a subset of commands
14:44:46 <flaper87> bunting: coolio, thanks
14:44:48 <bunting> Since i guess spec lites can easily get hidden
14:45:06 <flaper87> so, the spec-lite process says that the drivers team will review spec-lites during the drivers meeting
14:45:09 <nikhil_k> flaper87: anyone sourcing the master HEAD for CI/CD will have breaking changes in their repo (if that's something cared for) (imdone)
14:45:20 <Jokke_> question, I think I have raised before, why only metadefs?
14:45:32 <flaper87> There's a query we use to list those lite specs and review them
14:45:42 <flaper87> but thanks for bringing it up here too
14:45:49 <bunting> flaper87: Ah okay, did'nt know that
14:45:50 <kragniz> Jokke_: because there's a lot of them
14:45:51 * flaper87 needs to chase people to get the process reviewed
14:45:55 <flaper87> bunting: not your fault, really
14:45:56 <bunting> kragniz: ++
14:45:58 <mclaren> Jokke_: because there's so many md commands -- have you looked at the v2 help? They kind of spam everything else
14:46:28 <flaper87> my current feeling about that is that we should either do it for everything or not doing it.
14:46:30 <mclaren> AS Brian said, it makes glance look like a metadata service with some extra image related bits
14:46:43 <flaper87> if you look at `neutron --help` you'll get a huge list of commands
14:46:47 <mclaren> where really most folks think of it the other way around
14:46:54 <flaper87> but I need to look into this a bit better
14:46:57 <mclaren> flaper87: yes, but they're all networking related
14:47:03 <flaper87> mclaren: right
14:47:13 <kragniz> flaper87: I don't think we want to change general usage of the client
14:47:26 <kragniz> otherwise we might as well just tell people to use osc
14:47:28 <flaper87> kragniz: agreed but this change is a breaking change
14:47:37 <flaper87> I mean, we can proxy the old way to the new way
14:47:40 <mclaren> kragniz: it's backwards compatible
14:47:49 <Jokke_> I'm all up for subcommanding stuff, but I do agree that it would make sense to do it once for all then
14:47:51 <flaper87> but it'll require a major release to completely remove the old one
14:48:04 <mclaren> it's fully backwards compatible
14:48:09 <kragniz> flaper87: that's true, but md-* are far less likely to be used by some end user
14:48:19 <Jokke_> flaper87: that's the beauty of it, all the old ones works while they don't show up
14:48:30 <flaper87> kragniz: assume makes an A** between U and ME
14:48:43 <flaper87> :D
14:49:01 <nikhil_k> so are doing some redirect or something?
14:49:14 <nikhil_k> won't the CLI change (backward incompat)?
14:49:17 <flaper87> I'm not opposed to it, I just shout my first thought
14:49:26 <bunting> nikhil_k:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/218864/
14:49:30 <Jokke_> nikhil_k: the old commands are staying there, just suppressed form help
14:49:46 <bunting> nikhil_k: Thats the link
14:49:50 <flaper87> and I guess we need to keep in mind to remove those on the next major
14:49:51 <Jokke_> making it super easy to transform
14:50:01 <Jokke_> flaper87: or not ;)
14:50:13 <flaper87> Jokke_: the old ones
14:50:18 <nikhil_k> ah, nice trick. So suppressed is fine w/o deprecation (clarification needed)?
14:50:21 <Jokke_> the current trend seems to be bloat all so we can just leave them there
14:50:31 <flaper87> mmh, I don't like having 2 ways of doing things
14:50:31 <nikhil_k> flaper87: ok
14:50:46 <nikhil_k> if we can do redirects , that would be ideal
14:50:53 <mclaren> we have two apis, I thought it was a requirement!
14:51:03 <Jokke_> mclaren: ++ :)
14:51:05 <flaper87> loooooooooooooooooooooooooool
14:51:08 <nikhil_k> (or in bash semantics it would be alias)
14:51:10 <kragniz> mclaren: :D
14:51:16 <flaper87> nice one
14:51:24 <flaper87> sad but true
14:51:28 <flaper87> ok
14:51:33 <Jokke_> remember ... never remove anything
14:51:49 <nikhil_k> bunting: thanks for link
14:51:49 <Jokke_> maybe we just remove the suppressions on next major :P
14:51:56 <flaper87> Jokke_: well, lets not go crazy extreme with that
14:52:06 <flaper87> anyway
14:52:10 <flaper87> #topic Open Discussion
14:52:25 <flaper87> Happy thanksgiving to everyone who celebrates it
14:52:35 <flaper87> hope your holidays will be awesome
14:52:40 <bunting> Can i just ask what mk-1 actually is for?
14:52:57 <flaper87> bunting: mk-1 ? mitaka-1 ?
14:53:07 * mclaren can't find the lite-spec review :-/
14:53:11 <flaper87> that's the first milestone in the Mitaka release
14:53:14 <nikhil_k> right back atchya
14:53:15 <bunting> mikita-1
14:53:20 <bunting> What is it used for?
14:53:36 <nikhil_k> gtg, thanks everyone
14:53:39 <flaper87> just a release milestone, I don't think it has a proper "goal"
14:53:43 <flaper87> There are 3 milesotnes per release
14:53:47 <nikhil_k> have a fun rest of week/end.
14:53:50 <flaper87> there's -1, -2 and -3
14:54:05 <flaper87> That allows teams for planning based on the release schedule
14:54:09 <Jokke_> mainly for tracking progress and enabling teams to target specific changes to milestones
14:54:20 <flaper87> Targeting bug fixes, cutting points were there have been things done, etc
14:54:23 <Jokke_> there is also tarball generated out of them for testing purposes
14:54:33 <flaper87> mclaren: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234653/
14:54:37 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234653/
14:54:41 <mclaren> flaper87: thank you!
14:54:49 <flaper87> mclaren: no no no, thank you :D
14:54:52 <bunting> cheers, just wondering
14:54:53 <flaper87> actually, I take that back
14:54:58 <flaper87> I'll thank you based on your review
14:55:34 <Jokke_> bunting: think it as long sprint in the agile format
14:55:59 <flaper87> btw, if you ping me on IRC to provide feedback about the community and I'm not around, feel free to drop me an email and or dump everything on IRC. I have a bouncer
14:56:33 <flaper87> okidoki
14:56:37 * Jokke_ starts planning to dump everything to flaper87's bouncer
14:56:47 <flaper87> great meeting everyone, enjoy your weekend and have fun!
14:56:50 <flaper87> Jokke_: >.>
14:56:55 <kragniz> thanks flaper87
14:56:56 <bunting> as a late psa it seems kilo has a broken gate
14:57:06 <flaper87> bunting: ceph ?
14:57:08 <flaper87> the glance_store ?
14:57:14 <mclaren> yes  ceph I think
14:57:27 <mclaren> Anyone know if they're actively looking?
14:57:31 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250368/
14:57:33 <Jokke_> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250368/
14:57:35 <flaper87> I am
14:57:37 <Jokke_> #undo
14:57:41 <Jokke_> wupf
14:58:17 <flaper87> ok, we're done
14:58:19 <flaper87> thanks everyone
14:58:23 <Jokke_> Thanks everyone
14:58:25 <flaper87> #endmeeting