22:02:45 <david-lyle> #startmeeting Horizon
22:02:46 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 12 22:02:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:02:47 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:02:50 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'horizon'
22:03:02 <david-lyle> Hello horizon folks!
22:03:04 <lsmola_> hello
22:03:07 <jomara_> howdy
22:03:10 <jomara_> lsmola, hello
22:03:10 <jpich> Hey
22:03:52 <david-lyle> Small group today?  post summit lag I suppose
22:04:20 <david-lyle> #topic General
22:04:31 <david-lyle> There was no Program Meeting this week.  So nothing to report there.
22:04:49 <david-lyle> The summit concluded and started a lot of meaningful conversations
22:05:06 <david-lyle> now we just need to come to some more concrete conclusions
22:05:29 <david-lyle> I have a few general items to mention
22:05:39 <david-lyle> PTL Election
22:06:03 <david-lyle> By now you should have received an email regarding the Horizon PTL election to fill the recently vacated position. Please remember to vote.  I'm glad that we have an election, which is to say a choice.  I think that's an important part of this community.
22:06:33 <david-lyle> Meeting Agendas
22:06:44 <david-lyle> I would like to allow pre-planning of the agenda for this meeting.  So starting next week, I will include a spot on
22:06:58 <david-lyle> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon for proposed agenda items.
22:07:18 <jpich> Sounds good!
22:07:23 <david-lyle> I think that will help let people prepare for topics and know that they have a spot
22:07:24 <lsmola_> cool
22:07:50 <david-lyle> Reviews
22:08:02 <david-lyle> With summit related planning/attendance/travel there is quite a backlog of reviews. I started working through them.  Hopefully others can too.
22:08:24 <david-lyle> I know I have a ways to go still :)
22:08:37 <david-lyle> Good stuff out there though, that would be great to get in
22:08:37 <jpich> we do indeed
22:09:14 <david-lyle> as far as overlooked items goes Icehouse Blueprints
22:09:33 <david-lyle> Now that the summit is over, it's time to prioritize the items for Icehouse.  I've started looking through the blueprints and approved/scheduled some of the obvious ones. I will leave the rest to the elected PTL. So, if you're waiting on something blueprint wise, just wait longer ;)
22:09:49 <lsmola_> :-)
22:10:04 <david-lyle> Hopefully, after next week, things can move forward
22:10:18 <david-lyle> From the summit though top priority items seem to be:
22:10:24 <david-lyle> RBAC/IA
22:10:29 <david-lyle> Splitting horizon and openstack-dashboard
22:10:35 <david-lyle> Better Integration testing
22:10:40 <david-lyle> Reworked Navigation
22:10:46 <david-lyle> Pluggable modules
22:10:54 <david-lyle> and Extensive Ceilometer enhancements
22:11:14 <david-lyle> did I miss any obvious ones?  or subtle ones for that matter?
22:11:17 <lsmola_> yaaay ceilometer
22:11:19 <jpich> Would it be possible to get more milestones added? That might be one for ttx. Sometimes a proposer will know it's not going to happen in 'icehouse-1', but the other milestone choices are on 'on-going' or 'next'
22:11:52 <david-lyle> I can check, I'm not sure what the mechanics are there, but I agree
22:12:07 <david-lyle> it seems now either lump it all in icehouse-1 or future
22:12:18 <david-lyle> hard to concretely plan that way
22:12:42 <jpich> I know ideally as many as possible should land early :-)
22:13:19 <lsmola_> david-lyle, was there any conversation about the no-js support, and making a proper client side layer (with angularjs probably) ??
22:13:22 <david-lyle> no reason not to land all in icehouse-1 and take two cycles off
22:13:36 <jpich> lol
22:13:43 <david-lyle> yes, and I had that to bring up
22:13:46 <lsmola_> hehe
22:14:11 <david-lyle> let me close on the priority thing and then we'll jump into that
22:14:18 <david-lyle> as far at the Information Architecture talks went
22:14:41 <david-lyle> We didn't get as far as I'd hoped with this at the summit.  I want to get guidelines in place in Icehouse-1 so that it is clear where new content should reside.  I will propose a set of guidelines before the meeting next week that can be reviewed.
22:15:05 <david-lyle> and hopefully we'll lose some confusion
22:15:28 <david-lyle> ok, back to JS
22:15:35 <jomara_> to js!
22:15:46 <david-lyle> couple of things there
22:15:58 <david-lyle> First is AngularJS
22:16:04 <david-lyle> There was a recent email to the dev mailing list regarding using AngularJS in Horizon
22:16:10 <david-lyle> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/018629.html
22:16:14 <jomara_> that's me
22:16:17 <david-lyle> A test patch was also proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55901/
22:16:39 <david-lyle> jomara: thought the name looked familiar ;)
22:16:46 <david-lyle> Thoughts?
22:16:49 <lsmola_> yaaay
22:17:07 <jomara_> i think you all know my thoughts
22:17:24 <david-lyle> I think it's safe to say lsmola_ and jomara_ are onboard
22:17:47 <david-lyle> any one have any concerns?
22:18:00 <lsmola_> david-lyle, after working with the glued together JQuery libraries, I am very excited about the proper layer in Angular
22:18:29 <david-lyle> I think it looks like a good fit in general.  It seems you can apply a little or a lot
22:18:43 <lsmola_> david-lyle, also jtomasek
22:18:51 <david-lyle> and it's compatible alongside jquery
22:19:10 <jomara_> yeah, i like the fact that you can just carve out pieces as you go
22:19:15 <jomara_> less architectural rsk
22:19:24 <lsmola_> david-lyle, yees, and itś beautifly testable :-)
22:19:33 <david-lyle> and from what I understand has some subset of jquery support built in
22:19:37 <jomara_> it does
22:19:59 <david-lyle> my question from reading the documentation is it seems to imply a compile step
22:20:06 <david-lyle> where/when does that happen
22:20:15 <jomara_> a compile step? different than normal JS compile/minify?
22:20:44 <david-lyle> maybe I misinterpretted
22:21:21 <jomara_> from a development perspective, i the JS got compiled just by putting it in membership.js (which is added in _scripts.html)
22:21:24 <lsmola_> david-lyle, yeah i am also not aware of that, I will check
22:21:34 <david-lyle> ok, I must have misread something
22:21:53 <david-lyle> I'll reread with less jet-lag
22:21:59 <lsmola_> hehe
22:22:46 <david-lyle> I'd like to see if the mailing list item generates any more discussion.  I'll respond there too
22:22:57 <jomara_> great! thanks
22:23:03 <lsmola_> cool
22:24:11 <lsmola_> about the no-js support, is there still need for it?
22:24:20 <david-lyle> and the second part of the javascript conversation
22:24:48 <jomara_> are people asking for that? i don't have much context
22:24:53 <david-lyle> the answer is I honestly don't know
22:24:58 <lsmola_> hehe
22:25:03 <david-lyle> it's a legacy requirement
22:25:16 <david-lyle> mrunge and I talked a little about it at the summit
22:25:39 <david-lyle> reasons against being purely js are accessibility
22:25:53 <jpich> There's been bugs because horizon wasn't usable without javascript a few releases ago
22:26:04 <david-lyle> screen readers and government regulations
22:26:17 <david-lyle> for government use
22:26:27 <jomara_> you can design JS for accessibility, specifically screen readers
22:26:28 <lsmola_> so all the fun stuff :-)
22:27:09 <david-lyle> I'm not sure how we'd do on accessibility on the non-JS paths now
22:27:29 <david-lyle> my guess, not super well, but that's a guess
22:27:59 <david-lyle> jpich: end user bugs?
22:28:19 <lsmola_> well comparing to other project redhat has, they have beautiful UI and they just care about that customer loves it :-)
22:28:23 <jomara_> it would probably be a significantly easier development effort to develop JS w/ accessibility features than a fallback mode
22:29:46 <jpich> david-lyle: Unclear. https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1006170 requested specifically ability for things to work without JS. This one suggests someone hit a bug while running with JS disabled https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1117506
22:29:56 <jpich> Mostly I remember the first one because of the priority argument
22:31:01 * jpich weird brain
22:31:26 <david-lyle> good memory
22:31:26 <lsmola_> hmm
22:32:03 <david-lyle> I think this too should be raised on the dev mailing list and see what the use cases for non-js support are
22:32:21 <lsmola_> yeah I guess that makes sense
22:32:22 <jpich> Still an implicit policy. Maybe let's have the conversation on the list? If we can do things and have it be nice accessibility-wise like jomara suggests, that sounds good to me
22:32:27 <jpich> great
22:32:45 <david-lyle> jpich: I agree
22:33:04 <jomara_> jpich, i have some good examples of building JS apps with accessibility in mind (somewhere in my evernote file which i'll have to dig out)
22:33:06 <lsmola_> jomara_ could you write something to the mailing lists?
22:33:17 <jomara_> yeah, no problem
22:33:22 <lsmola_> jomara_ yaaay
22:33:57 <david-lyle> ok, we'll let those float for the week, and add them to the agenda for next week, and hopefully have more of our bright minds in the room
22:34:12 <lsmola_> ok, great
22:35:21 <david-lyle> I think both are reasonable requests, but we just need to make sure we're not breaking consumers
22:35:35 <lsmola_> true that
22:35:39 <david-lyle> #topic Open
22:35:41 <jpich> It might be one for the 'usage' list too, to figure out if some end users are actually using it this way
22:36:09 <david-lyle> jpich: by usage you mean just the openstack mailing list?
22:36:31 * lsmola_ making a mental note that there is something like usage list
22:36:34 <jpich> david-lyle: Yes, the non-dev list :-)
22:36:40 <david-lyle> ok
22:37:00 <david-lyle> good point, that would be a better sampling of end users
22:37:11 <jpich> The dev list message should be handy too to figure out where the policy came from and what people think about it, but since we're talking about users
22:37:47 <jpich> Cool
22:37:54 <lsmola_> great
22:38:17 <david-lyle> I'll try to ping gabriel too, as he seemed to hold it as a requirement, to get his reasons as to why
22:38:38 <jpich> Soudns good
22:39:20 <david-lyle> Any other topics?
22:40:35 <lsmola_> I guess not :-) I have a lot of pending reviews, though not sure if they are high priority :-)
22:40:55 <jomara_> i'll start trying to get reviews in, there is quite a backlog
22:41:54 <jpich> Thanks
22:41:54 <david-lyle> I have a ways to dig out still
22:42:41 <david-lyle> jomara_: all reviews are welcome and as the emphasis moves to include more js more reviews of js will be very important
22:43:26 <lsmola_> david-lyle, I have started on reusable charts, would be great if you could check it out :-)
22:43:28 <jomara_> great
22:44:14 <david-lyle> lsmola_: I saw the patch, didn't have the focus to tackle it yet.  I'll get to it soon.  I just got back early this AM
22:44:31 <david-lyle> reviewing bits and pieces on the way
22:44:41 <lsmola_> david-lyle oh, ok :-)
22:45:16 <lsmola_> david-lyle, I should finish it probably tomorrow or day after, so no rush :-)
22:45:42 <david-lyle> I'm looking forward to getting a reusable set in there, so piecemeal is fine too
22:45:49 <david-lyle> smaller reviews :)
22:46:43 <david-lyle> alright, I think we'll call it for today.
22:46:47 <david-lyle> thanks everyone
22:46:53 <david-lyle> #endmeeting