16:00:24 <jpich> #startmeeting Horizon
16:00:24 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Jun 10 16:00:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jpich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:26 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:28 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'horizon'
16:00:33 <jpich> Hi everyone
16:00:37 <rdopieralski> hi
16:00:49 <jpich> Our esteemed PTL is away so I'll be chairing the meeting this time around
16:00:55 <absubram> hi
16:01:06 <hurgleburgler> Hi
16:01:08 <tsufiev> hi
16:01:15 <tzumainn> hiya!
16:01:28 <ericpeterson> hi
16:01:58 <jpich> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon
16:02:04 <jcoufal> o/
16:02:14 <devlaps> o/
16:02:16 <jpich> A short agenda this time around but I'm sure we'll manage to make the meeting last the full hour anyway :-)
16:02:41 <jpich> #topic Juno Milestone 1
16:02:49 <jpich> #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-1
16:03:26 <jpich> The first milestone for Juno should be cut tomorrow so anything that's not approved or about to be has been moved to Juno-2 by now (if I made a mistake feel free to go ahead and correct it though)
16:04:04 <jpich> And speaking of Juno 2...
16:04:07 <jpich> #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-2
16:04:28 <jpich> There's a huuuuuge list of blueprints there already
16:04:36 <jpich> but luckily a lot already have code up for review
16:05:10 <jpich> It'd be cool if people could consider reviewing the patches for a blueprint or two in their review rounds so we can start munching through the list
16:05:21 <jpich> Lots of people wait for Feature Freeze Proposal to propose their blueprints and miss the release because there's not enough time to review them all
16:05:37 <jpich> So let's try to merge blueprints early while we have a chance :) Thanks everyone. Review help is really greatly greatly appreciated always
16:05:51 <lblanchard> o/
16:06:12 <jpich> FYI according to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule Juno-2 will likely be cut around July 22nd-24th
16:06:53 <jpich> Any related questions?
16:07:11 <nlahouti__> jpich: how can the deleivery status be changed?
16:07:49 <jpich> nlahouti__: Do you mean the status for a blueprint?
16:08:14 <nlahouti__> jpich: yes. mine shows unknown but it should be in 'needs code review'
16:08:21 <jpich> nlahouti__: Oh! Do you have a link?
16:08:27 <jpich> The assignee should be able to do that
16:08:40 <jpich> and members of the core team, and normally Gerrit does it automatically but sometimes it doesn't work...
16:09:12 <nlahouti__> jpich: sure. here it is:https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-cisco-dfa-support
16:09:22 <tzumainn> might be because it's still in drafting state?
16:09:48 <jpich> nlahouti__: Ok, as the assignee you should be able to change the implementation status? Can you give it a shot to see if it works?
16:09:56 <nlahouti__> tzumainn: and what does it mean?
16:10:11 <tzumainn> lol, no idea, that just looked different to me : )
16:10:24 <nlahouti__> jpich: sure will try that.
16:10:43 <tzumainn> or does it need to be approved?
16:11:07 <jpich> Dunno, Gerrit did add the usual "Addressed by" comments
16:11:34 <nlahouti__> tzumainn: I don't know either, but it needs to be approved.
16:11:51 <jpich> nlahouti__: I updated the status for now
16:12:21 <nlahouti__> jpich: Thanks a lot.
16:12:33 <jpich> No problems!
16:12:38 <jpich> Any other questions about milestones?
16:13:47 <jpich> #topic How to vote for names
16:13:50 <jpich> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-name-proposals
16:13:54 <jpich> Who proposed this topic?
16:13:57 <rdopieralski> me
16:14:07 <rdopieralski> so now that we have a list of names to choose from
16:14:13 <jpich> Cool! Consider putting your name besides the topic in the agenda :-)
16:14:25 <rdopieralski> we should decide how to vote for them
16:14:30 <rdopieralski> yes, sorry, I forgot
16:14:48 <rdopieralski> does anybody have their favorite poll service?
16:15:00 <rdopieralski> or is there something official?
16:15:00 <clu_> surkeymonkey
16:15:06 <jpich> I think we've used Launchpad polls for very simple polls like that in the past
16:15:14 <jpich> like release names?
16:15:17 * rdopieralski looks at launchpad
16:15:42 <jpich> I'd recommend that 2-3 who've been involved with the work so far get together and reduce the list to 4-6 names though
16:16:01 <jpich> some of the names look a little like they were proposed by people who don't understand what part of the split we were talking about
16:16:08 <rdopieralski> I suppose the conflicting names are out right away
16:16:13 <jpich> Yup
16:16:34 <rdopieralski> jpich: do you know how to set up a poll on launchpad?
16:16:40 <jpich> The kind folks on #openstack-infra can probably provide assistance for setting up the poll, I'm not quite sure where it is either
16:16:44 <tzumainn> actually, can we address that a bit?
16:17:00 <tzumainn> because I know there was an option to keep horizon as horizon, and rename the dashboard instead
16:17:21 <rdopieralski> tzumainn: but nobody wanted to discuss the technical details of that
16:17:22 <tzumainn> which I was gently reminded doesn't work with the proposal to split
16:17:36 <doug-fish> sorry about that - I suggested it without realizing the full impact
16:17:46 <doug-fish> I think there are other reasonable options that are less troublesome
16:18:38 <rdopieralski> doug-fish: can you elaborate?
16:18:39 <jpich> There was a strong argument at some point that to everyone except the folks working on the codebase (us), "horizon" means what we call "openstack_dashboard"
16:18:46 <tzumainn> just to check then - the two benefits of naming the dashboard 'horizon' is that we reduce the impact on a bunch of infrastructure, and what jpich just said?
16:19:03 <rdopieralski> tzumainn: pretty much, yes
16:20:02 <tzumainn> fair enough, I can buy that - I just remember when the naming of the tuskar ui came up, people eventually agreed that the simple solution would be the best - tripleo-ui - but that seems inconsistent with what we're doing here
16:20:04 <doug-fish> I think using the horizon name to mean the actual dashboard impl and horizon_lib to mean the library is quite clear
16:20:15 <tzumainn> but people are right, 'horizon' is established, so I don't really care that much
16:20:52 <ericpeterson> some things are also wierd.... when someone says "this is built upon horizon".....  that becomes vaugue
16:20:53 <doug-fish> I'm sure that there will be other reasonable options we can vote for as well
16:22:00 <rdopieralski> doug-fish: I don't that things that have actual technical impact should be voted upon -- it usually ends up with bikeshedding
16:22:12 <jpich> ericpeterson: Hopefully the split/renaming will help to clarify though this may be a good argument against having "horizon" + "horizon_lib" :)
16:22:29 <clu_> ericpeterson - http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/topics/tutorial.html will have to change :)
16:22:39 <ericpeterson> I think the confusion will be cleared up in time, it's not a huge deal
16:22:47 <doug-fish> I think I'm getting confused right now
16:22:49 <rdopieralski> clu_: can you add it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-split-plan please?
16:23:19 <clu_> rdopieralski: sure thing :)
16:23:30 <rdopieralski> another thing is how the voting shuld be done
16:23:38 <rdopieralski> does everybody get just one vote?
16:23:48 <rdopieralski> or can we pick the best, say, three?
16:24:01 <rdopieralski> (it depends on what launchpad offers, of course)
16:24:06 <jpich> I'd say to keep it to one to keep it simple. My question would be "who is everybody"? :-)
16:24:23 <ericpeterson> it kinda depends upon how robust our voting tool might be?
16:24:26 <rdopieralski> anybody who stumbles upon it :)
16:24:29 <tzumainn> lol
16:24:30 <jpich> rdopieralski: I think launchpad only offers "vote for the best" but if you/folks are keen on weighted voting we could maybe reuse the condorcet thingie we used for elections
16:24:59 <rdopieralski> jpich: In the worst case I will just set up a wiki page, and ask people to add X-es
16:25:22 <tsufiev> rdopieralski, i'd limit voters to the people who contributed to horizon codebase
16:25:27 <jpich> rdopieralski: haha, as long as they add their nick too for tracking why not
16:25:40 <jpich> tsufiev: This also affects people who build on top of us though
16:25:52 <ericpeterson> can I switch doug-fish's votes then?  ;)
16:25:56 <jpich> and they are the folks that made good points like what "horizon" means to people who are not actually working on the codebase
16:25:59 <tsufiev> jpich, agree, didn't think of it
16:26:11 <rdopieralski> tsufiev: who is going to prepare the list of such people then?
16:26:12 <doug-fish> ericpeterson:  only if you can figure out all of my pseudonyms!
16:26:36 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: wiki has history
16:26:40 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: which can be checked
16:26:58 <tsufiev> rdopieralski, afaik, the invitation to the voting for horizon PTL was sent only to contributors
16:26:59 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: also, I don't think this is such a big and important thing that anybody would cheat
16:27:10 <doug-fish> agreed
16:27:17 <ericpeterson> yeah, I was teasing a bit :D
16:27:18 <rdopieralski> tsufiev: ok, I will ask at -infra about it too
16:27:30 <jpich> I think on Launchpad folks get only one vote per LP account
16:29:14 <jpich> rdopieralski: Are you happy enough you have the next steps for the name change voting?
16:29:55 <rdopieralski> jpich: yes, thank you
16:30:04 <jpich> Cool!
16:30:05 <jpich> #topic Open Discussion
16:30:10 * rdopieralski is extremely happy
16:30:16 <tzumainn> I have a question about common dashboard code
16:30:27 <jpich> rdopieralski: I am utterly delighted to hear this
16:30:36 <tzumainn> I started a thread about it on openstack-dev, got a few responses, and then had a question using concrete examples - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036998.html
16:30:42 <tzumainn> so I was curious if people had opinions : )
16:32:07 <tzumainn> or should I just submit a patch and let people opine in that fashion?
16:32:26 <doug-fish> tzumainn: its hard for me to ask this right while we are changing names ... but are you saying there are openstack_dashboard pieces that you use as building blocks?
16:32:52 <jpich> tzumainn: The way admin and project tables extend each other's tables probably could use some refactoring,yeah... though I don't have specific opinion as to the best way would be to go about this at this point
16:33:08 <ericpeterson> yeah, there is a common pattern I think for taking something from openstack_dashboard.... and doing a slightly modified copy of that
16:33:12 <tzumainn> doug-fish, yes, exactly - well, there are openstack_dashboard dashboard pieces that tripleo-ui extends, which feels peculiar
16:33:24 <tzumainn> ericpeterson, is there a canonical pattern I should duplicate?
16:33:34 <doug-fish> doesn't that mean that openstack_dashboard itself is part of the toolkit then?
16:33:46 <ericpeterson> not that I can think of.....   I have seen the same problem / situation
16:34:19 <tzumainn> so david-lyle mentioned that creating openstack_dashboard/common seemed reasonable to him
16:34:29 <ericpeterson> it's kind of like the common toolkit, then common openstack type things.... then the openstack_dashboard or tuskar ui etc
16:35:01 <tzumainn> yeah, that would be excellent, but I'm not clear as to the extent that things would end up in the common toolkit
16:35:20 <mxu> Hi jpich: we have this BP https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-cisco-dfa-support for quite a while and code patch @ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83863/, which got some review comments. How can close the reviews and have the BPs approved?
16:35:23 <doug-fish> tzumainn:  your usage makes me wonder why we are working so hard to split the components.  I know other people who want to consume dashboard panels and make only small modificaitons to them
16:35:34 <ericpeterson> I think eventually the openstack_dashboard (level 3)  would be an empty file :o
16:35:34 <tzumainn> er, "should" end up - which is what my email asks, so just wondering if people had opinions before I just went ahead and tried something
16:35:43 <doug-fish> maybe we should treat every panel as a potential extension point
16:35:45 <tzumainn> ericpeterson, yeah, that was my fear as well
16:36:34 <tsufiev> it code at level 2 is so common, shouldn't it be moved to level 1?
16:36:36 <tzumainn> doug-fish, so in that sense, openstack_dashboard dashboard code in project and admin is both the "openstack ui" and the intended point of extension?
16:36:41 <tsufiev> *if
16:36:49 <jpich> tzumainn, doug-fish: There was a somewhat related blueprint proposed by Cody Sommerville after the Portland summit but I'm struggling to find it back atm, maybe someone else will have better luck
16:36:49 <rdopieralski> I have one more question about the voting
16:36:54 <doug-fish> tzumainn yes
16:37:10 <rdopieralski> I need a list of e-mails of peole who are to vote -- what do you think guys would be the best way to complete it?
16:37:43 <rdopieralski> just go over the patches from the last year?
16:37:51 <ericpeterson> rdopieralski: I would see if the infra group has list of contributors???
16:38:04 <ericpeterson> same as PTL votes maybe???
16:38:33 <ericpeterson> would it make sense to limit to only recent contributors???
16:38:59 <tzumainn> jpich, thanks, I'll poke around a bit
16:39:04 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: they don't
16:39:29 <jpich> mxu: Sorry about this, the review queue is quite large at the moment so we're behind. It'd be great to get input on the blueprint from folks more familiar with Neutron like maybe amotoki? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, I'll try next week if no one's approved the bp yet
16:39:36 <jpich> rdopieralski: So we're going only with horizon contributors then?
16:39:43 <doug-fish> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/building-on-openstack-dashboard
16:40:06 <rdopieralski> jpich: I'm open to suggestions, but I need a list of e-mails
16:40:07 <doug-fish> jpich, is that the one you were thinking of? ^
16:40:21 <rdopieralski> jpich: it's the easiest to get the horizon contributors at this moment
16:40:49 <amotoki_> mxu: jpich: I totally forgot the horizon meeting time :-(
16:40:50 <jpich> doug-fish: That one! Thanks :D
16:40:55 <gary-smith> git shortlog -s -e    shows emails of contributor
16:41:04 <rdopieralski> gary-smith: thank you!
16:41:06 <gary-smith> can be limited by time range
16:41:40 <amotoki_> mxu: is neutron side patch of DFA merged?
16:42:06 <nlahouti__> amotoki: not yet.
16:42:30 <amotoki_> mxu: As we discussed in the previous meetings, we can approve the bp but the code can't be merged before merging the corresponding dependent feature.
16:42:33 <jpich> rdopieralski: I think the actual query they use for generating the voters list are on the wiki on one of the governance pages
16:42:38 <mxu> jpich:  thanks for offering to review it!  we actually talked to amotoki at the summit and thru many emails. We are getting close to juno-2 cutoff time so really would like to close this
16:43:03 <jpich> amotoki_, mxu: Oh is this the same as last week? As amotoki said, if the Neutron isn't merged the code cannot merge in Horizon
16:43:54 <amotoki_> jpich: mxu: i think so.
16:43:56 <jpich> mxu: Note that I'm only talking about trying to understand the bp, not the code :-) Blueprint draft/approval statuses are not used all that much in horizon either way, is my impression...
16:43:58 <rdopieralski> jpich: I will look for it, and if I don't find it, I will use git
16:44:09 <jpich> rdopieralski: Yup it was a git query
16:44:14 <rdopieralski> ah
16:44:40 <mxu> amotoki:  our BP for neutron has been approved. nlahouti is going to post hist code for MD very soon. Can you please approve this Horizon BP?  We are just asking for approving the BP, not merging the code. We will merge it after we merge our neutron code. Hope this makes it clear.
16:45:22 <jpich> rdopieralski: If it's a launchpad poll maybe we can use the umbrella openstack project as the allowed voter list? At least it'd be a bit larger than horizon's though I don't know who's included in that either
16:45:30 * jpich starting to warm up again to the wiki page vote lol
16:45:31 <rdopieralski> jpich: no, it's civs
16:45:50 <rdopieralski> jpich: it lets you rank all entries by preference, by the way
16:46:00 <jpich> Ok, so people will get an email about it. I think it's fair enough to only send the email to recentish contributors rather than everyone ever
16:46:11 <jpich> rdopieralski: Yeah, it's used for the people elections
16:46:18 <rdopieralski> jpich: for launchpad, you need to be the group admin to start a poll
16:46:32 <rdopieralski> jpich: and the groups are hopelessly out of sync with "reality"
16:46:39 * jpich fails to open a poll
16:46:40 <jpich> I see
16:46:59 <rdopieralski> so either civs or something like survemonkey
16:47:11 <rdopieralski> but I would hate to force people to signup to commercial services
16:47:41 <jpich> rdopieralski: That's the link I was thinking about fwiw https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Election_Officiating_Guidelines#Generate_a_list_of_voters
16:48:20 <jpich> mxu: Thanks for the clarification!
16:48:31 <amotoki_> I would like to ask who approves blueprints. AFAIK in horizon PTL approves almost all blueprints.
16:48:42 <rdopieralski> that gives 213 addresses
16:48:44 <tzumainn> out of curiosity, would an etherpad be really so terrible for voting?  or would we be expecting massive voter fraud. . . ?
16:48:47 <rdopieralski> I think it may be enough
16:49:10 <gary-smith> etherpad seems like the simplest approach
16:49:11 <jpich> mxu: Also please add a link in the blueprint to the dependent neutron patches so reviewers can check the statuses
16:49:24 <rdopieralski> tzumainn: I was thinking about doing it on the etherpad initially, until *someone* completely derailed the name collecting
16:49:25 <mxu> jpich, amotoki: how can we make progress with the BP approval? It has been there for a long time.
16:49:37 <tzumainn> lol, my bad
16:49:41 <rdopieralski> tzumainn: then I began to have doubts about the ability of people to follow guidelines
16:49:44 <tzumainn> I shall wash my neck and wait
16:49:49 <mxu> jpich:  will add the link soon.
16:50:44 <tzumainn> I would think if you started a new etherpad with a culled list of names, send out an email saying that the time for option gathering is over, please just +1 one of the available options - that may work?
16:50:47 <ericpeterson> rdopieralski : I think if we have the email list, surveymonkey or whatever would likely work... the more I think about it
16:50:53 <jpich> amotoki: I think anyone in core can and should do it
16:51:00 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: it requires you to sign up
16:51:09 <rdopieralski> ericpeterson: and civs is proven
16:51:19 <jpich> amotoki: But we haven't so the PTL has had to pick up the slack. As long as it seems to fit I don't see a problem with approving
16:51:39 <jpich> I wouldn't be too keen on using etherpad for a vote but maybe I just lack faith in humanity :)
16:51:52 <amotoki_> AFAIK we haven't discussed the concrete blueprint approval process so far...     I believe bleurprint approval by core team works, but it is better to be discussed in the meeting.
16:52:00 <doug-fish> I promise to behave better if we use the etherpad again
16:52:34 <tzumainn> jpich, no, I promise I won't commit etherpad fraud this time, unlike the previous million times
16:52:39 <gary-smith> if we put our email addresses next to our vote in etherpad, it would avoid fraud
16:53:05 <gary-smith> those addresses could be filtered against the list from git
16:53:06 <tzumainn> I mean, people were fairly well behaved when voting for summit sessions, right?
16:54:01 <rdopieralski> I think it would just be enough to put an * next to the names you like
16:54:04 <gary-smith> oh wait, unless doug-fish changes everyone's votes. forgot about that
16:54:21 <jpich> amotoki: I think spreading the load on more people is good, especially if a core is interested in helping to drive a particular blueprint. Looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Blueprint_Review_Criteria any core should be equipped to do that... but I get your point, maybe we should discuss it first on list or in a meeting when the PTL is back
16:54:52 <absubram> +1
16:54:54 <amotoki_> jpich: totally agree.
16:55:09 <tzumainn> rdopieralski, I'd be fine with that
16:55:30 <doug-fish> gary-smith:  oh its not that I'm dishonest.  I just don't follow guidelines.  ericpeterson is the one you need to look out for.
16:55:46 <absubram> amotoki_: not sure if you had time to read through the comments I posted in response to your review comments.. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90093/ I tried the nice idea you suggested.. but I don't see a way without changing the test/settings.py..
16:55:54 <jpich> tzumainn: I'd hope to make the poll wider known than the summit sessions vote, more people == more chances stupid
16:55:58 <ericpeterson> I'm trying to find the conversion between *'s and +1's
16:56:01 <absubram> amotoki_: I'm still trying to see if it is doable though.. marked it as WIP for now
16:56:19 <absubram> but please do let me know your thoughts on my comments.. whenever you are able to get a chance
16:56:24 <absubram> thanks!
16:56:27 <jpich> rdopieralski: civs + 1 year list of horizon contributors seems fair enough to me so that we can actually vote rather than have a vote on how to vote :-) I'll leave it in your good hands though!
16:57:01 <mxu> jpich, amotoki:  really appreciate it if you can have the discussions (on core folks help approving the BPs) soon as we missed the juno-1 already and time is flying
16:57:46 * jpich proposes averaging etherpad + wiki + LP polls results on which tool to use to vote
16:58:08 <tzumainn> lol
16:58:59 <jpich> mxu: Sure, but this isn't actually blocking your work, or am I missing something?
16:59:07 <amotoki_> mxu: it seems your blueprint fits to Juno-2 only when considering horizon side. I think it totally depends on neutron whether it actually lands in juno-2 :-)
16:59:23 <jpich> Agreed with amotoki
17:00:07 <jpich> I had another exciting topic down my sleeve but it looks like it'll have to wait until next week ;) It's about time to wrap up
17:00:08 <mxu> jpich: again,  we are asking for BP approve so we see the agreement  from the community on our design. Our MD code will be posted for review soon.
17:00:10 <jpich> Thanks everyone!
17:00:17 <doug-fish> well done on filling the hour!
17:00:21 <tzumainn> thanks all!
17:00:21 <jpich> mxu: Ok, fair enough
17:00:24 <jpich> doug-fish: toldya
17:00:26 <jpich> #endmeeting