16:03:19 <jpich> #startmeeting horizon
16:03:20 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 25 16:03:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jpich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:03:22 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:03:24 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'horizon'
16:03:32 <jpich> David mentioned he'd be a few minutes late
16:03:39 <woodm19791> Slacker
16:03:54 <akrivoka> hey everyone :)
16:03:56 <bradjones> \o/
16:03:59 <hurgleburgler> Hello!
16:04:01 <tsufiev> hi!
16:04:02 <circ-user-TaAwW> hi!
16:04:05 <sambetts> o/
16:04:06 <bpokorny> Hi!
16:04:06 <jpich> I'm not up to date with the general announcements so he can let us all know about that when he comes online :-) In the meantime, hi everyone
16:04:23 <Sanjay> Hello
16:04:29 <lhcheng_> hello!
16:04:31 <doug-fish> Hi!
16:04:39 <john-davidge> o/
16:05:12 <asahlin> hello all
16:05:47 <jpich> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon
16:06:23 <jpich> The first item is David's as well so I'll skip over it for now
16:06:43 <pkarikh> hi
16:06:50 <jpich> #topic Best default behavior for modals (tsufiev)
16:07:03 <tsufiev> jpich, the half of this one also belongs to David :)
16:07:07 <jpich> Haha
16:07:29 <jpich> It seems for now what is needed is feedback from UX folks, on what would be the best user experience
16:07:48 <tsufiev> jpich, yep. There are two alternative solutions: mine and David's
16:07:56 <david-lyle> o/
16:07:57 <jpich> tsufiev: Would you be able to post an email to the dev list with both [ux] and [horizon] tags explaining the different options?
16:08:01 <david-lyle> sorry I'm late
16:08:16 <jpich> Yay, a David
16:08:41 <robcresswell> o/
16:08:48 <jpich> david-lyle: I skipped over the announcements and the new meetings items, when we wrap this topic you may want to circle back with that :)
16:09:02 <david-lyle> perfect
16:09:21 <tsufiev> jpich, yep, I could. david-lyle's approach seems more appropriate to me, if it can be revived
16:09:51 <david-lyle> tsufiev: I didn't get a chance to try it yesterday, can take a look today if there's intereset
16:09:59 <asahlin> +1 to post email
16:10:01 <jpich> tsufiev: Sounds good to me. What we don't want is switching approach every release so having feedback from user experience experts to base the next solution on would be good
16:10:31 <tsufiev> jpich, david-lyle: Okay, I'll write a mail to ML
16:10:42 <tqtran> doesnt it make sense to make a configurable thing for user?
16:10:50 <asahlin> I like David's solutions.. done something similar solution in other products I have worked on when possible losing data that was entered
16:10:53 <tqtran> seems to me that different users have different preference on this
16:11:19 <tsufiev> tqtran, do you suggest to move this behavior into User->Settings?
16:11:21 <jpich> Let's discuss the different approaches on the list?
16:11:24 <doug-fish> tqtran: That sets us up for more configuration to document and more codepaths to test
16:11:33 <doug-fish> I'm hopeful we can implement only the "right" solution
16:11:46 <tqtran> tsufiev: yes
16:11:47 <jpich> doug-fish: That sounds ideal to me too
16:12:00 <asahlin> doug-fish: +1
16:12:13 <tsufiev> tqtran, okay, let's discuss this in ML indeed :)
16:12:46 <david-lyle> ok sounds a plan
16:12:55 <david-lyle> jpich: can you chair me?
16:13:09 <david-lyle> #chair david-lyle
16:13:13 <jpich> I wish I had a good witty comeback
16:13:14 <david-lyle> e.g.
16:13:18 <jpich> #chair david-lyle
16:13:19 <openstack> Current chairs: david-lyle jpich
16:13:25 <david-lyle> thanks!
16:13:29 <jpich> Thanks! Didn't know t hat command
16:13:38 <david-lyle> and thanks for starting the meeting
16:13:57 <david-lyle> drive took longer than my optimism anticipated
16:14:02 <jpich> heh!
16:14:08 <david-lyle> makes me the perfect software developer
16:14:09 <david-lyle> :)
16:14:28 <doug-fish> :-)
16:14:57 <david-lyle> #topic General Items
16:15:27 <david-lyle> First Kilo-1 is slated for Dec 18
16:15:44 <bradjones> submitted blueprint for curvature network topology https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/curvature-network-topology
16:15:51 <bradjones> feedback would be great
16:16:09 <david-lyle> There are several items that have been added that haven't been reviewed yet. But basically a month left
16:16:38 <david-lyle> just a heads up
16:17:04 <hurgleburgler> I submitted a blueprint for theming: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-themes
16:17:10 <hurgleburgler> feedback would be great as well
16:17:17 <robcresswell> oooh theming
16:17:24 <david-lyle> bradjones: I don't see it targeted to  a milestone, please do so to make sure it's on our radar
16:17:36 <bradjones> david-lyle: ah ok sure will do
16:17:52 <david-lyle> hurgleburgler: I think I slated yours for a milestone, but yes feedback would be great on both those items
16:18:15 <david-lyle> We'll come back to bps in a bit, so let's move on
16:18:52 <david-lyle> Many of you probably are already aware of this but there are several cross-project liaison roles
16:19:09 <david-lyle> they're popping up like whack-a-mole at this point
16:19:13 <david-lyle> :)
16:19:20 <jpich> haha
16:19:27 <david-lyle> that said I do think they are beneficial
16:19:36 <jpich> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons
16:19:55 * david-lyle undoes paste
16:20:10 <jpich> Eep
16:20:38 <david-lyle> we have a few uncovered, any that remain uncovered falls to me
16:20:58 <david-lyle> QA, Stable and API working group are those open
16:21:14 <david-lyle> the recommendations is for a core team member, but that is a recommendation
16:21:34 <david-lyle> if you have any interest in any of those available slots, please ping me outside of the meeting
16:21:43 <david-lyle> To go along with that...
16:22:06 <david-lyle> The weekly project meeting is now moving to a cross project meeting
16:22:30 <david-lyle> and these CPL (cross-project liaisons) are encouraged to attend
16:23:03 <david-lyle> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ProjectMeeting
16:23:33 <doug-fish> david-lyle:  do you have any thoughts on what the Horizon role on the QA team is?
16:23:38 <david-lyle> there was a mail to the dev list: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051153.html
16:23:39 <doug-fish> we don't have many tempest tests
16:23:48 <david-lyle> doug-fish: not strictly true
16:24:00 <david-lyle> we just have one scenario test in tempest
16:24:04 <amotoki> doug-fish: not limited to tempest :-)
16:24:25 <david-lyle> but jpich has some movement on that front we'll talk about in a bit
16:24:32 <doug-fish> ok great
16:24:33 <doug-fish> thx
16:25:04 <david-lyle> doug-fish: I think it mainly involves being the primary point of contact for Horizon regarding QA issues
16:25:18 <david-lyle> we have and do break the openstack gate
16:25:25 * david-lyle crosses fingers
16:25:25 <doug-fish> oh sure
16:25:31 <doug-fish> and we'll do it again!!
16:25:40 <david-lyle> whoa
16:25:53 <david-lyle> inconceivable
16:26:10 <david-lyle> regardless, those are available options
16:26:35 <david-lyle> #topic Meeting Times
16:27:16 <david-lyle> so recently r1chardj0n3s conducted a poll on the mailing list to suggest new meeting times
16:27:50 <david-lyle> the idea would be to alternate times each week to better line up with all the timezones represented
16:28:22 <jpich> Sounds reasonable and inclusive to me :)
16:28:40 <david-lyle> The two times with the highest number of attendees were 2000 UTC on Wed
16:28:52 <david-lyle> and 1200 UTC on any day but Tues
16:29:31 <jpich> Maybe we can have both meetings on Wednesday so it's just a time change?
16:29:56 <david-lyle> that's where I was headed too
16:30:02 <david-lyle> less variation
16:30:22 <david-lyle> any problems with that?
16:30:47 <tqtran> SGTM
16:30:54 <david-lyle> tqtran: you're here
16:31:00 <david-lyle> :O
16:31:01 <tqtran> yes =)
16:31:07 <david-lyle> UTC and all
16:31:11 <david-lyle> cheers
16:31:19 <tqtran> yeah, totally on broad no
16:31:23 <tqtran> *now
16:32:28 <jpich> It's fine, I think it's expected the attendance will vary. Hopefully that'll encourage people to rely more on the ML rather than the meetings only :)
16:32:28 <david-lyle> what time is it now amotoki?
16:32:46 <amotoki> it is around 1:30am
16:32:57 <david-lyle> because I'm not entirely convinced you do sleep
16:33:00 <david-lyle> :)
16:33:01 <tqtran> :O
16:33:02 <jpich> haha
16:33:10 <amotoki> hehe
16:33:21 <david-lyle> yeah, attending every other week is fine of course
16:33:48 <david-lyle> ok settled, only to be revisited in a few months
16:33:54 <jpich> Of course :)
16:34:12 <amotoki> sounds good
16:34:13 <david-lyle> I'll update the appropriate pages and send the final email on the mailing list
16:34:40 <david-lyle> I'll probably send a reminder out to the mailing list before the next two meetings as well, just as a reminder
16:34:48 <jpich> That sounds good too!
16:35:17 <jpich> We should try to keep the meeting agenda page updated with the next meeting's time, if we're good enough to remember too
16:35:17 <david-lyle> #topic FYI: Integration tests on the gate (jpich)
16:35:25 <david-lyle> jpich: good point
16:35:42 <jpich> So you may have noticed the new integration tests running on our gate as non-voting. The job should still complete successfully so please keep on eye on it and report back any problem you notice - we want to make sure there are no intermittent issues before making it voting.
16:35:56 <jpich> (Note that this is about Horizon's gate only, this isn't about gating any of the other projects with horizon stuff at this point.)
16:36:12 <jpich> (...Also we may have found one issue already: https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1396194 )
16:36:36 <jpich> ...That's it, any question, let me know :) I'm more familiar with the infra side of things at this point but happy to help as I can. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon/Testing/UI remains a useful reference and dkorn is both knowledgeable and helpful as well, for issues related to new tests and so on
16:36:48 <david-lyle> ah intermittent failures, fun
16:37:41 <david-lyle> thanks jpich, this is a great step forward
16:37:53 <doug-fish> +1 very valuable
16:38:11 <david-lyle> #topic Mailbag
16:38:31 <david-lyle> There are a couple of items on the mailing list re: Horizon that bear mentioning
16:38:57 <david-lyle> one is a extremely long thread re: packaging javascript libraries
16:39:15 <david-lyle> I think we're still making progress, but have not reached a final solution
16:39:37 <david-lyle> so still in flight
16:39:54 <david-lyle> we'll need this to move forward with more of the angular work
16:40:19 <david-lyle> so hopefully we'll reach a workable solution soon
16:40:33 <david-lyle> Second mailbag item is splitting the repo
16:41:08 <rdopiera> do we have any dates for that?
16:41:14 <david-lyle> The hope was to split this in K-1, I think naming and timing are the remaining concerns for that
16:41:33 <rdopiera> we have a naming problem again?
16:41:58 <tsufiev> rdopiera, there were many votes for horizon + horizon_lib recently in ML
16:42:00 <david-lyle> rdopiera: changing all the names of the modules will break anyone currently using horizon
16:42:20 <rdopiera> can we set some kind of a deadline on this, and just go with whatever we have at that moment, so that it doesn't stretch to infinity?
16:42:34 <david-lyle> was the concern around the names that were voted on previously
16:42:41 <rdopiera> david-lyle: they will break anyways, with the api changes
16:42:56 <david-lyle> rdopiera: which api changes?
16:43:15 <rdopiera> david-lyle: is horizon supposed to be compatible across releases? should horizon from Kilo work with Icehouse?
16:43:33 <jpich> It used to be the way
16:43:44 <rdopiera> I mean with the rest of openstack in Icehouse
16:44:01 <rdopiera> perhaps we should do that actually in two step
16:44:06 <david-lyle> rdopiera: I'm not sure we can make that claim today, I honestly have not tested it
16:44:06 <rdopiera> first do therename, then do the split
16:44:10 <rdopiera> or the other way around
16:44:30 <rdopiera> I think that if we don't test it, we can assume it doesn't work
16:44:36 <jpich> Yep
16:44:40 <david-lyle> agreed
16:44:45 <jpich> Which is probably why we don't put it on our release notes anymore
16:45:01 <jpich> ygbo had a suggestion on the list that seemed popular and avoid the naming / breakage issue
16:45:14 <amotoki> from the mailing list discussion, yves proposes to keep horizon+openstack_dashboard.
16:45:27 <amotoki> it looks a good solution
16:45:37 <jpich> Yes, and put the names that were voted on as the pypi package names
16:45:44 <rdopiera> we can do that, and create a new repository for openstack_dashboard
16:45:57 <jpich> so it doesn't break apps and we use what the community voted on last time
16:45:57 <rdopiera> then we can go back to renaming as a separate thing
16:46:00 <rdopiera> should be easier then
16:46:20 <rdopiera> I propse to separte the rename from the split
16:46:28 <rdopiera> do the split first
16:46:34 <amotoki> rdopiera: his proosal is that horizon_lib has "horizon" module and horizon repo has "openstack_dashboard", isn't it?
16:46:35 <rdopiera> and then discuss renaming
16:46:41 <david-lyle> I thought mrunge said he couldn't/wouldn't have modules with a different name than the package
16:47:17 <david-lyle> I'll ping mrunge when he's on and try to close on this
16:47:18 <amotoki> ah.. good point
16:47:44 <david-lyle> but I think that was the issue with this plan
16:48:25 <david-lyle> but to rdopiera's point I would like to close on this soon
16:48:27 <rdopiera> is there anything we can already do before the names are decided on?
16:48:29 <david-lyle> say by k-1
16:48:54 <jpich> Cool. Would be good to update the thread with what's next and move on. Otherwise I vote for rdopiera's suggestion, separate the 2 problems and move forward with the separation
16:49:04 <david-lyle> the other thing I would like to do before the split is move policy out of openstack_dashboard
16:49:10 <david-lyle> I think it would make it easier
16:49:22 <jpich> Link?
16:49:24 <rdopiera> yeah, no cross-dependencies then
16:49:44 <rdopiera> jpich: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/move-policy-engine
16:49:47 * david-lyle looks at agenda
16:49:52 <jpich> Thanks!
16:50:01 <david-lyle> oops rdopiera found it first, thanks!
16:50:25 <rdopiera> david-lyle: can we help with that, other than reviews?
16:50:33 <david-lyle> I think just reviews
16:50:41 <david-lyle> I have two steps up so far
16:50:53 <doug-fish> okay I have to confess:  the repo split has been under discussion for some time, but I don't understand the value in doing that.  It's this blueprint, right?  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/separate-horizon-from-dashboard
16:51:08 <rdopiera> it makes tempest unhappy :(
16:51:11 <david-lyle> one for making policy pluggable in openstack_dashboard and one for adding it to django_openstack_auth
16:51:43 <david-lyle> the last would  be removing from openstack_dashboard
16:51:58 <david-lyle> that will be easy since it's being isolated in the first
16:52:27 <david-lyle> doug-fish: it's a packaging issue, a reuse issue and a testing issue
16:52:51 <david-lyle> the horizon repo is currently packaged as two separate packages
16:52:51 <jpich> doug-fish: We rehashed a few of the reasons during the contributors meetup (Topic #3: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-horizon-contributors-meetup ), david-lyle summarised better than what I was trying to write :P
16:53:19 * david-lyle is thankful jpich is here to use reason and judgement
16:53:19 <doug-fish> I'll read up.  Thx
16:53:39 <david-lyle> time is ticking
16:53:49 * jpich wonders if she's ever done that ever
16:54:03 <david-lyle> certainly more than I
16:54:14 <david-lyle> #topic Blueprint reviews
16:54:18 <rdopiera> jpich: at least you fake it well ;)
16:54:33 <jpich> Good to know :P
16:54:58 <david-lyle> last week I posted some bps for review on the meeting page. I haven't seen a lot of feedback on most of them, I assume that means people don't have a problem with them
16:55:16 <david-lyle> I culled one because it's going in the wrong direction
16:55:37 <tsufiev> david-lyle,  either they didn't have enough time :)
16:55:53 <tqtran> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/angularize-identity-tables should this also be included in the list?
16:56:15 <david-lyle> tqtran: I plan to approve these and post the next set
16:56:16 <tqtran> or are we talking about the list that you are planning on dropping?
16:56:23 <tqtran> ah ok
16:56:31 <david-lyle> didn't want to make the list too big
16:57:02 <david-lyle> I'll give it another 24 hours and then move forward with prioritizing the current list
16:57:05 <TravT> tqtran, david-lyle: if we get the indentity tables angularized in k-1, it will help to set a REST pattern for us to use with launch instance.
16:57:11 <hurgleburgler> Is it too late to get any new ones on the list?
16:57:23 <david-lyle> unless I see feedback that needs discussion
16:57:47 <david-lyle> hurgleburgler: not necessarily
16:58:11 <david-lyle> please target it to the milestone you wish to target, then we can see if it fits in
16:58:19 <hurgleburgler> cool
16:58:20 <david-lyle> reminder K-1 is Dec 18
16:58:33 <jpich> Freeze likely a couple of days before
16:58:51 <david-lyle> for blueprints added to it, certainly
16:59:09 <amotoki> I hope the fisrt set (current) and the next set are listed separately, and hope one or two days before approving to allow folks to review the current list.
16:59:29 <david-lyle> amotoki: the lists will be separate
16:59:46 <david-lyle> I can wait 48 hours, that's fine
16:59:59 <amotoki> work for me
17:00:14 <jpich> Thanks everyone, out of time!
17:00:21 <david-lyle> times up. Thanks everyone. Have a great week. and thanks jpich for starting the meeting
17:00:28 <david-lyle> #endmeeting