08:00:04 <robcresswell> #startmeeting horizondrivers
08:00:05 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Apr 13 08:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is robcresswell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:00:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
08:00:09 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'horizondrivers'
08:00:48 <robcresswell> Anyone around for drivers meeting?
08:01:04 <ifat_afek> robcresswell: hi, we have Vitrage weekly meeting on this channel ...
08:01:14 <mrunge> oops :D
08:01:20 <ifat_afek> every week at this hour :-)
08:01:24 <itxaka> lmao
08:01:25 <robcresswell> Hmm, there wasnt a conflict on the patch...
08:02:32 <ifat_afek> we are looking for the file now, but we are using openstack-meeting-3 for 5 months already
08:02:44 <robcresswell> The Vitrage meeting is in an hours time. 900 UTC.
08:02:45 <alexey_weyl> http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Vitrage_Team_Meeting
08:02:50 <ifat_afek> or could it be a problem with daylight saving time?
08:03:29 <robcresswell> I think you're an hour early :)
08:03:41 <mrunge> yeah, now it's 8 UTC, not 9 UTC
08:04:16 <ifat_afek> ok, so we'll have our meeting an hour later, and we'll check it for next time
08:04:24 <robcresswell> http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Horizon_Drivers_Meeting
08:04:32 <robcresswell> Is the relevant link for this meeting, 800 UTC
08:04:36 <robcresswell> thanks ifat_afek
08:04:37 <ifat_afek> Vitrage guys - we have some daylight saving time issues, meeting is postponed in an hour
08:05:36 <robcresswell> So, attempt no. 2... who's around for drivers meeting? :D
08:06:01 <itxaka> o/
08:06:37 <itxaka> \o
08:06:54 <robcresswell> Quiet one.
08:07:10 <mrunge> yeah, silent
08:07:27 <kenji-i_> Hello! o/
08:07:40 <robcresswell> o/ kenji-i_
08:08:00 <robcresswell> Lets run through some notices
08:08:05 <robcresswell> #topic Notices
08:08:29 <robcresswell> #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Horizon%3A
08:08:45 <robcresswell> This is likely to be the final summit schedule
08:09:05 <robcresswell> I've drawn the info from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-newton-summit
08:09:36 <robcresswell> Added a few discussion points and an etherpad for each session.
08:10:17 <robcresswell> Any questions?
08:11:12 <itxaka> I see that there is no bullet point to talk about horizon/openstack_dashboard split
08:11:19 <itxaka> is that something that would be interesting to add?
08:11:35 <itxaka> I heard about it in some emails from time to time
08:11:43 <mrunge> itxaka, I believe, that ship has sailed
08:11:54 <mrunge> and it has been buried
08:11:58 <itxaka> good
08:12:06 <robcresswell> I disagree that it has sailed, but I don't think it is top of the list right now. There are more pressing issues
08:12:33 <robcresswell> We can discuss it more over the half day meetup
08:12:37 <mrunge> ok, we decided not to do this, because it woulr harm horizon in angular no?
08:13:20 <robcresswell> The issue I have with it is that currently the plugin system works with Horizon and o_d as a dependency
08:13:31 <robcresswell> Iknow our plugin for one, imports code from both
08:13:53 <mrunge> yeah
08:13:54 <robcresswell> separating horizon would likely break most plugins, and o_d too, unless we were very careful
08:14:03 <mrunge> how to handle dependencies?
08:14:20 <mrunge> unless we're going to drop python code completely?
08:14:30 <mrunge> something krotscheck will love :D
08:14:33 <robcresswell> And it doesn't actually gain us that much; yes architecturally it makes more sense, but I would rather we invested our time into scale improvements
08:15:08 <robcresswell> or improving plugin installation or settings handling or the overviews etc etc
08:15:23 <mrunge> robcresswell, the other thing which *I* would like to see is something like making it easier to add/install plugins into horizon
08:15:35 <itxaka> mrunge +1
08:15:41 <robcresswell> mrunge: I've got Stevedore on my list, working on a POC in my spare time
08:15:45 <mrunge> i.e. integrate plugins better in horizon eco-system
08:15:53 <mrunge> oh, great :D
08:16:09 <mrunge> robcresswell, there is already the patch from radomir
08:16:13 <robcresswell> I want to drop enabled files for example
08:16:31 <robcresswell> I didnt know radomir had a patch for stevedore?
08:16:56 <mrunge> he was working with .ini files
08:17:13 <mrunge> and I would think he had it done with stevedor
08:17:40 <mrunge> not sure if we're supposed to take oslo.foo instead of stevedore directly
08:17:41 <itxaka> droping enabled files, sounds interesting
08:17:44 <robcresswell> If he was using ini's, I imagine he would have done it via oslo conf rather than setup.cfg?
08:18:05 <mrunge> I think he was earlier than oslo.conf being implemented
08:18:17 <mrunge> and iirc, oslo.conf is using stevedore
08:18:24 <robcresswell> ha, ahead of his time
08:18:34 <mrunge> yes
08:18:55 <mrunge> and since all other components are using oslo.conf, we should be using that, no?
08:18:56 <robcresswell> I don't fully know the intertwining of stevedore and oslo conf right now. Still looking at Neutron implementations and working out how best to use it.
08:19:04 <mrunge> (just thinking loudly)
08:19:14 <robcresswell> Ideally all plugin conf could just be defined within the plugin, so no copying of enabled etc.
08:19:26 <robcresswell> And no updating of enabled files if the plugin changes
08:20:17 <mrunge> ihrachyska gave a presentation on how to implement a config system based on .ini files
08:20:26 <mrunge> let me try to find the video
08:22:00 <mrunge> robcresswell, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAmZhXtIIXc
08:22:13 <robcresswell> thanks mrunge
08:22:30 <mrunge> robcresswell, you just should come to visit fosdem that means ;-)
08:23:15 <mrunge> so, back to plugins
08:23:35 <mrunge> with big tend, I have the feeling, OpenStack is diverging quicker and quicker
08:24:09 <mrunge> but we could provide something like a core collection of plugins, supporting something like a core of projects
08:24:39 <robcresswell> Thats effectively what we're moving towards now. Horizon really supports the core projects, and plugins move out
08:24:51 <robcresswell> FWaaS and VPNaaS should move out soon
08:24:59 <robcresswell> Both are plugins.
08:25:31 <mrunge> yeah, right.
08:25:48 <mrunge> but I would be drawing the circle a bit bigger
08:26:13 <mrunge> or would be including more plugins for something like a common core (need a better name)
08:26:34 <robcresswell> I'm not sure we have the scope to achieve it
08:27:34 <robcresswell> Right now it depends entirely on the service team, and we offer support where possible
08:27:51 <mrunge> looking at the last survey, in about 60% of installations horizon is installed
08:27:58 <robcresswell> I'd like to build up a liaison list if possible and work closer with those people
08:28:55 <itxaka> mrunge on _production_ 60%, then on test+poc it shoots up to about 90% of installations where horizon is installed IIRC
08:29:03 <robcresswell> Have also opened the fishbowl to feedback from plugins this summit
08:29:09 <mrunge> great
08:29:16 <robcresswell> itxaka: Probably because UIs are great for POC :)
08:29:43 <robcresswell> But that -30% is primarily due to scale I would imagine.
08:29:48 <mrunge> uhm, we should ask operators, which panels they do use, and which are useless for them
08:29:57 <mrunge> because of scale or so
08:30:11 <robcresswell> If you try and load a few hundred of X resource on Horizon, it falls over. Launching 1k instances for example.
08:30:12 <mrunge> i.e metering is a mess, admin/overview as well
08:30:38 <mrunge> robcresswell, it became better already
08:30:42 <robcresswell> metering can be dropped
08:30:44 <itxaka> robcresswell, not really! I launched 45k instances with the ng launch instance the other day!
08:30:51 <itxaka> didnt fail at all!
08:31:01 <mrunge> but display the list of 45k instances
08:31:09 <mrunge> or list 10k of volumes
08:31:10 <itxaka> it was weird as it didnt report for like 30 minutes :D
08:31:22 <itxaka> indeed, the display was a killer
08:31:23 <robcresswell> itxaka: Really? We had a bug report last week where launching 1k instances caused the panel to fail
08:31:50 <robcresswell> itxaka: Out of curiosity, was it the polling or the data query?
08:32:16 <mrunge> robcresswell, if you're doing lots of nova create/destroy in a short time, admin/overview page will time out afterwards
08:33:04 <robcresswell> mrunge: Yeah, admin overview is another pain point. I'd like to look at improving Instances and Networks first, then overviews.
08:33:20 <robcresswell> ofc, there are multiple contributors, so that can be parallel :)
08:33:22 <itxaka> Cant remember robcresswell, was actually not testing the creation/display of instances :)
08:33:29 <mrunge> let's collect feedback from operators about that, robcresswell
08:34:18 <robcresswell> Absolutely
08:36:14 <robcresswell> Any other discussion points re: summit?
08:39:00 <robcresswell> I think we can skip bp review given the attendance today, so will call the meeting unless there is anything else.
08:41:03 <robcresswell> Thanks all
08:41:06 <robcresswell> #endmeeting