15:01:10 <iurygregory> #startmeeting ironic
15:01:10 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Mon May 16 15:01:10 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is iurygregory. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:10 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01:10 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'ironic'
15:01:17 <iurygregory> #chair TheJulia
15:01:17 <opendevmeet> Current chairs: TheJulia iurygregory
15:01:21 <dtantsur> o/
15:01:22 <erbarr> o/
15:01:24 <iurygregory> o/
15:01:28 <matfechner> o/
15:01:30 <stendulker> o/
15:01:32 <kamlesh6808c> o/
15:01:35 <rpioso> \o
15:01:36 <rloo> o/
15:02:02 <arne_wiebalck> o/
15:02:38 <iurygregory> I will start running the meeting (I think TheJulia is busy) =)
15:02:52 <iurygregory> Hello everyone, welcome to our weekly meeting o/
15:03:09 <iurygregory> you can find the agenda for this meeting in our wiki
15:03:12 <iurygregory> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_next_meeting
15:03:38 <iurygregory> #topic Announcements / Reminder
15:03:56 <iurygregory> #info Please provide feedback to the Zed Themes patch
15:03:59 <iurygregory> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-specs/+/841061
15:04:33 <iurygregory> #info Dinner in Berlin during the OIS
15:04:37 <iurygregory> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-May/028548.html
15:05:12 <iurygregory> I've sent an email to the list with the details, so if you are going to the OIS and are interested check the info o/
15:05:45 <iurygregory> does anyone have anything else to add for announcements/reminder?
15:05:49 <TheJulia> o/
15:05:50 <TheJulia> sorry
15:05:54 <TheJulia> Got totally distracted
15:06:11 <TheJulia> one of those "perfection is the enemy of good" discussions
15:06:15 <hjensas> o/
15:06:54 <TheJulia> I take that as no announcements are desired
15:07:11 <TheJulia> There were no action items from our  meeting last week, so we can skip ahead to status reports
15:07:24 <TheJulia> #topic Review subteam status reports
15:07:33 <TheJulia> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard
15:07:54 <ajya> o/
15:08:20 <opendevreview> Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/metalsmith master: Add a CentOS job with legacy local boot  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/metalsmith/+/841911
15:08:40 <dtantsur> this ^^^ is what we discussed re netboot removal
15:11:47 <TheJulia> ack
15:11:55 <TheJulia> It looks like just about everything has been updated.
15:12:09 <TheJulia> Does anyone have any questions, comments in regarding to updates?
15:12:38 <dtantsur> is anyone actually planning to work on active steps?
15:13:11 <TheJulia> I'd like to, I just don't think I'm going to have time right now, I'm spinning a lot of plates and bugfixes at the moment
15:13:31 <iurygregory> dtantsur, well we will probably remove I think (it was based on what we had in the etherpad from the zed PTG)
15:13:32 <dtantsur> We probably shouldn't treat it as a priority if nobody is going to work on it :)
15:13:32 <iurygregory> =)
15:13:39 <iurygregory> yeah
15:16:24 <TheJulia> I *might* be able to work on it, but my concern is even just reviews at this point
15:16:52 <dtantsur> I may (fingers crossed) be able to return upstream, at least as far as reviews are concerned now
15:16:53 <TheJulia> I likely wouldn't be abel to get the reviews until sometime int he fall
15:17:06 <TheJulia> Well, that is good news
15:17:23 <TheJulia> I guess we need to recognize this as a problem and work on a solution. Review Jamming seemed to really help when we did it
15:17:30 <TheJulia> Anyway, that is outside the scope of updates
15:17:45 <TheJulia> Onward?
15:18:23 <iurygregory> yes
15:18:24 <opendevreview> Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/metalsmith master: Add a CentOS job with legacy local boot  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/metalsmith/+/841911
15:19:18 <TheJulia> #topic Deciding on priorities for the coming week
15:19:20 <TheJulia> #link https://review.opendev.org/q/status:open+hashtag:ironic-week-prio
15:19:49 <TheJulia> Does anyone have anything to add to this list?
15:20:35 <iurygregory> https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-python-agent/+/837039 maybe we can add the multipath patch
15:20:46 <TheJulia> ++
15:21:40 <dtantsur> and the metalsmith patch above
15:22:12 <TheJulia> Done
15:22:15 <TheJulia> Anythine else?
15:22:25 <TheJulia> /thine/thing/
15:22:52 * dtantsur has too many backports that fails the CI, needs to burn through this list
15:23:09 <TheJulia> ditto
15:23:14 <TheJulia> or conflicting backports I can't seem to get sorted
15:23:34 <TheJulia> And small patches which bring value I should just finish
15:23:48 <TheJulia> Odds of me sleeping on my LAX->AMS->BER trip?!
15:24:07 <dtantsur> LAX->AMS possibly
15:24:22 <TheJulia> heh
15:24:26 <TheJulia> maybe..
15:24:26 <dtantsur> AMX->BER is what, 1.5 hours? :)
15:24:30 <TheJulia> about
15:24:38 <TheJulia> Anyway, onward!
15:24:55 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: Do we have anything for the SIG this week?
15:25:16 <arne_wiebalck> TheJulia: the video from last week is up already
15:25:25 <arne_wiebalck> kudos to Steve once more
15:25:30 <TheJulia> #topic Baremetal SIG
15:25:33 <arne_wiebalck> apart from this NTR
15:25:39 <TheJulia> Thanks stevebaker[m]!
15:25:52 <TheJulia> Do we have our plans sorted for the session in Berlin?
15:26:25 <arne_wiebalck> the *plan* is to have a look-back and have a meet & greet session
15:26:41 <arne_wiebalck> but that is about all that happened until now :-D
15:26:41 <TheJulia> arne_wiebalck: do we have an etherpad setup for notes?
15:26:49 <TheJulia> ;)
15:26:50 <TheJulia> okay
15:26:56 <arne_wiebalck> not yet, I can do that ofc
15:27:14 <TheJulia> I think that would be good, even just slightly open ended and we could include the "how to get in touch" details as well
15:27:16 <arne_wiebalck> if there are suggestions what else to do, let us know
15:28:06 <TheJulia> Okay!
15:28:19 <TheJulia> Since we have nothing under RFE review, I guess we shall proceed to Open Discussion!
15:28:31 <TheJulia> #topic Open Discussion
15:28:58 <TheJulia> Someone has raised a Raid Cleaning Tempest test item?
15:29:01 <JasonF> Hey, I wanted to let folks know -- a week from today I'll be starting a new position with G-Research out of the UK, and will have work-time to contribute to OpenStack again.
15:29:01 <TheJulia> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin/+/841601/
15:29:12 <TheJulia> Any volunteers for that topic?
15:29:18 <TheJulia> JayF: \o/ woohooooooo
15:29:19 <JayF> That's my contribution for open discussion :) I'll obviously make a point to start attending these again
15:29:22 <kamlesh6808c> The Julia : Hi
15:29:39 <kamlesh6808c> Currently, I am working on raid cleaning tempest test case implementation. This implementation is intended to work on physical baremetal servers.
15:30:03 <kamlesh6808c> In order to have full coverage to test raid cleaning, as python drac client or any third party tool is not expected to use, we are planning to consume it via configuration file of tempest as multiline string.
15:30:21 <kamlesh6808c> (eg. https://paste.openstack.org/show/bmguH5bdY1BO8x1NLKD1/).Please find linked WIP patch [https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin/+/841601/].
15:30:31 <TheJulia> cool!
15:30:36 <kamlesh6808c> My query is - Can we use multiline string in config, validate and utilize inside raid_cleaning implementation test Case in ironic tempest plugin as consumed in mentioned WIP patch.
15:30:58 <ayoung> o/
15:30:58 <kamlesh6808c> Please make a note that schema which has been added in patch is still in work in progress. Schema would be furnished considering it should be reusable by all platform means.
15:31:17 <kamlesh6808c> This has been tested and working fine as expected
15:31:31 <dtantsur> as to multiline values, you could support escape sequences (\n)
15:31:43 <TheJulia> kamlesh6808c: I suspect for multiline you ought to just point it at a file instead of use multiline
15:31:48 <dtantsur> but if it's something long, linking to a file name instead my be better
15:31:50 <TheJulia> multiline is *not* fun to debug
15:31:50 <dtantsur> right
15:32:07 <TheJulia> And even harder to use
15:32:10 <TheJulia> if your an operator
15:32:30 <TheJulia> (one of those, we know the code, but they often don't things)
15:32:31 <rpioso> kamlesh6808c: Are escape characters needed in the configuration file?
15:32:51 <kamlesh6808c> rpioso : not needed
15:33:09 <TheJulia> A file would also just be simpler to code/test
15:33:21 <TheJulia> FWIW
15:33:44 <rpioso> dtantsur, TheJulia: The newly proposed storage inventory setting is JSON.
15:33:54 <TheJulia> a file can be read in and used as json
15:34:19 <TheJulia> multiline/dict entries in ini files are really just a major headache unless you absolutely know what your doing
15:34:29 <TheJulia> And then require very verbose examples
15:34:42 <TheJulia> files with contents loaded as json just seems.... way simpler to me.
15:34:56 * dtantsur agrees
15:34:57 <TheJulia> At least, that is my feeling
15:35:08 <TheJulia> dtantsur: wait, we agree?!?
15:35:11 <TheJulia> I'll alert the media :)
15:35:14 <dtantsur> \o/
15:35:19 <rpioso> dtantsur, TheJulia: Thank you!
15:35:20 <dtantsur> BRKNG
15:35:23 <kamlesh6808c> ok
15:35:36 <dtantsur> okay, I have a potentially nostalgic topic
15:35:43 <dtantsur> what do you think about reviving ironic-webclient?
15:35:51 <TheJulia> no objection
15:35:52 <kamlesh6808c> thanks
15:36:01 <TheJulia> as long as someone is going to do something with it :)
15:36:07 <TheJulia> the fact we now support basic auth too...
15:36:17 <dtantsur> I'm literally talking to a person who is interested in a lightweight UI for Ironic
15:36:21 <rpioso> dtantsur, TheJulia: Other than that, is the proposed direction agreeable, at least at this moment :)?
15:36:22 <dtantsur> potentially even in developing one
15:36:31 <iurygregory> wow
15:36:34 <iurygregory> nice!
15:37:08 <dtantsur> in reality, there are a few Ironic projects that don't receive a lot of changes
15:37:21 <dtantsur> ironic-ui, n-g-s, n-bm, metalsmith, even the clients
15:37:26 <iurygregory> IPE cries
15:37:32 <dtantsur> IPA too
15:37:34 <dtantsur> IPE
15:37:36 <dtantsur> meh
15:37:39 <iurygregory> XD
15:38:01 <dtantsur> anyway, if we can check a few times per cycle that it still works (and it should - our API is backward compatible), it should be fine for us to keep it in the list of deliverables
15:38:09 <TheJulia> rpioso: yeah, I *think*
15:38:19 <dtantsur> and then when I have my regular mess-with-other-stuff time, I can integrate it in Bifrost :)
15:38:30 <TheJulia> ironic-ui has some dynamic field logic too which makes it not-necessary for us to do too much
15:38:42 <TheJulia> Thank whats his name who was at Cray
15:39:03 <dtantsur> Michael Krotscheck?
15:39:06 <TheJulia> no
15:39:12 <TheJulia> he was HPE and went to VMware
15:39:18 <dtantsur> right
15:39:24 <TheJulia> This guy literally did his wind down time writing ironic-ui
15:39:28 <ayoung> Don't do it
15:39:29 <TheJulia> before retiring
15:39:39 <ayoung> Web Clients suck in time and space and energy
15:39:55 <dtantsur> well.. I also think that everyone should use CLI
15:40:04 <TheJulia> ayoung: I feel a battle royale sort of conflict on web uis
15:40:10 <dtantsur> but we miss out on outreach opportunities by the virtue of not having it
15:40:13 <ayoung> Heh...no my suggestion would be to start by just making ironic honor the HTML accepts header first and see what that getsy ou
15:40:27 <ayoung> it is minimal effort and gets you an ugly (non complete with Horzion) ui
15:40:31 <dtantsur> -2 let's not mix the concerns
15:40:43 <TheJulia> yeah, different uses
15:40:55 <dtantsur> a garbage auto-generated UI won't serve the needs I'm talking about
15:40:58 <JayF> If we have someone who wants a web UI, and they're going to work on it, might as well have them work on ironic-webclient than $new_unofficial_thing
15:41:19 <dtantsur> another benefit of ironic-webclient is that it exists
15:41:21 <ayoung> dtantsur, I am dead serious here.. you are going to be building a UI that needs people with a different skill set.
15:41:26 <TheJulia> well, it really becomes up to what they want to do and if it adds value to the overall community
15:41:37 <JayF> I'd suggest maybe encouraging that person to do some dev docs/automation on how someone less-webby could maybe maintain it if folks disappear
15:41:38 <dtantsur> ayoung: I am not. We have it. It's just deprecated and abandoned.
15:41:45 <TheJulia> We don't have sufficent information, just initial ideas so far
15:42:00 <TheJulia> and well, yeah, and the existing javascripty magic ui
15:42:04 <dtantsur> Here is a thing, folks. Nobody is going to contribute to a project that is abandoned and removed from the repository.
15:42:09 <TheJulia> which requires checking out HEAD~1
15:42:14 <TheJulia> ++
15:42:22 <dtantsur> If we think it's valuable, we need to keep the door open for potential adopters and contributors.
15:42:24 <ayoung> whereas, HTML generation from the existig code actually helps on the REST side, not just as a WebUI.  It also means that you don't have to explicitly enable every feature in the Javascript once you get it in the web API
15:42:28 <iurygregory> https://opendev.org/openstack/ironic-webclient
15:43:02 <ayoung> dtantsur, I am sure that you can make a really useful, valuable tool.
15:43:03 <dtantsur> ayoung: to be clear: I'm talking about `cd ironic-webclient && git revert HEAD && git review`
15:43:12 <TheJulia> lets disconnect these these discussions just a little. There is merit to both, but we should likely do this as a high bandwidth discussion
15:43:15 <dtantsur> ayoung: you mean, the web  does not exist? :)
15:43:20 <ayoung> HEH
15:43:30 <dtantsur> because virtually all web sites are not created the way you describe
15:43:33 <ayoung> so, I would agree that a web UI would be usedful
15:43:37 <TheJulia> guys
15:43:39 <dtantsur> (I need to trust you that there is a single one that does)
15:43:46 <ayoung> dtantsur, I know.  I have alwasy been a heretic
15:43:56 * TheJulia notes ayoung likely has heretic shirts
15:43:59 <TheJulia> :)
15:44:11 <ayoung> I also have experience on both sides of the wire, including years of writing sites when we could not trust Javascript
15:44:11 <dtantsur> do we need a vote, iurygregory to make a call, or ...?
15:44:33 <TheJulia> I'm not sure there is a single definitive path from this discussion
15:44:47 <TheJulia> there are merits, there are positives, there are negatives
15:44:53 * dtantsur disagrees
15:44:56 <iurygregory> well, I'm totally ok if people want to bring back the webclient
15:45:14 <ayoung> dtantsur, if you feel strong enough about it, and want to put in the effort to maintain it, I say go for it.  My advice was directed at you personally :)
15:45:15 <iurygregory> I do see more positives than negatives
15:45:32 <dtantsur> ayoung: well.. I don't want to write a new UI for Ironic, that's for sure.
15:45:34 <ayoung> i.e  do you want to put React on your resume?
15:45:46 <dtantsur> no matter which method, not with React, nor with HTML
15:46:03 <dtantsur> I also don't believe operators should use GUI
15:46:05 <ayoung> not with a fox not in a box
15:46:17 <dtantsur> but I think we're missing some outreach opportunities by not having a quick-start GUI
15:46:22 <TheJulia> ++
15:46:25 <dtantsur> and we have two of them, both are web based
15:46:37 <dtantsur> if we have one written in Qt and C++, I'd take it as well
15:46:42 <dtantsur> even though I hate C++
15:46:46 <TheJulia> That is one of the biggest frustration points I've traditionally heard. A lack of a UI to "cut one's teeth on"
15:46:48 <ayoung> so the one thing I would recommend thinking through is how to map from the UI to the CLI and web API
15:46:57 <ayoung> how do you take someone from newbie to power user
15:47:15 <TheJulia> you know, steve did a thing as a mobile app one day for fun
15:47:24 <ayoung> Speaking of heretics
15:47:29 <dtantsur> for me, familiarity with concepts is an important thing
15:47:43 <dtantsur> I've literally recently had a serious customer escalation because they did not understand our concepts
15:47:47 <dtantsur> (our = metal3 in that case)
15:48:14 <TheJulia> ouch
15:48:20 <dtantsur> once you understand the domain (nodes, states, ports, other stuff), mapping buttons to magical spells is a no brainer
15:48:44 <ayoung> So, as I sit here working through a baremetal install on an alternate platform and learning concpets from first principals, I can agree with you dtantsur that a web UI would help
15:49:09 * TheJulia remembers aeva walking into a room with something the last time we had a deep UI discussion in ?vancouver?
15:49:38 <dtantsur> eons ago
15:49:52 <ayoung> I think that was 3 job titles ago for me
15:50:10 <TheJulia> this is one of those topics :)
15:50:16 <ayoung> So...one more issue?
15:50:38 <ayoung> Is anyone working on aarch or other architecture support besides me?
15:50:42 <ayoung> aarch64
15:50:48 <dtantsur> I'll take an action items to look at ironic-webclient to see 1) how usable it is, 2) how terrible the code is to maintain
15:51:00 <dtantsur> ayoung: there were people in RH OSP that made TripleO deploy on ARM
15:51:10 <TheJulia> ayoung: someone at RH is supporting it for her work
15:51:12 <TheJulia> cbouchar: o/
15:51:30 <TheJulia> ayoung: you and cbouchar should like... chat :)
15:51:30 <dtantsur> ayoung: we had a cycle priority in Yoga to create a simple ARM job with Bifrost - did not happen. You could be The Chosen One ;)
15:51:55 <JayF> If we do re
15:52:01 <JayF> whoops
15:52:05 <ayoung> TheJulia, the thing I am realizing looking at the code is that it would be a better refactoring to support multiple archs for a single deployment than to deploy assuming the controller and nodes are all the same arch
15:52:16 <ayoung> do re me fa?
15:52:19 <TheJulia> ayoung: bifrost specifically
15:52:21 <TheJulia> ?
15:52:34 <dtantsur> ayoung: ++ a lot
15:52:39 <TheJulia> ayoung: I agree w/r/t bifrost a lot
15:52:40 <ayoung> I thought JayF was channeling his inner Maria
15:52:58 <TheJulia> ayoung: he might?!
15:53:03 * TheJulia does not know
15:53:04 <dtantsur> multi-arch is a thing for sure
15:53:08 * TheJulia is glad this is a super lively meeting
15:53:23 <ayoung> aso...are there old plans for multi-arch I can look at?
15:53:27 <JayF> ayoung: I just have this problem I can't solve
15:53:43 <ayoung> JayF, a willothewhisp?
15:53:56 <dtantsur> ayoung: there are bits in the code
15:54:08 <TheJulia> for bifrost, I don't really beleive so, more a "does this seem to work and is it easy". At least, beyond freagments of code/changes
15:54:14 <dtantsur> ayoung: https://github.com/openshift/ironic-image/commit/fbf34c9757bf8bc9dc602823fed28c43f0b3dbb4 may be handy
15:54:31 <JayF> ayoung: Maria!
15:54:42 <ayoung> dtantsur, thanks you
15:56:10 <dtantsur> ayoung: we'll need to start publishing ARM images for IPA
15:56:16 <ayoung> is jeffdyoung  in irc?
15:56:17 <TheJulia> So, we have 4 minutes left
15:56:23 <dtantsur> e kinda do actually: https://tarballs.opendev.org/openstack/ironic-python-agent-builder/dib/
15:56:28 <TheJulia> #topic Who is running the next meeting?
15:56:30 <dtantsur> but these are experimental
15:56:57 <iurygregory> I can run o/
15:57:42 <TheJulia> Awesome!
15:57:51 <TheJulia> Our fearless leader will run our next meeting!
15:57:53 <TheJulia> Thanks everyone!
15:58:09 <TheJulia> #endmeeting