15:01:19 <rpittau> #startmeeting ironic
15:01:19 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 15:01:19 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rpittau. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:19 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01:19 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'ironic'
15:01:37 <rpittau> Hello everyone!
15:01:37 <rpittau> Welcome to our weekly meeting!
15:01:37 <rpittau> The meeting agenda can be found here:
15:01:37 <rpittau> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_February_10.2C_2025
15:01:55 <dtantsur> o/
15:02:43 <TheJulia> o/
15:02:49 <JayF> o/
15:02:52 <rpittau> this should be a quick one
15:02:56 <rpittau> #topic Announcements/Reminders
15:03:13 <rpittau> usual reminders!
15:03:13 <rpittau> Standing reminder to review patches tagged ironic-week-prio and to hashtag any patches ready for review with ironic-week-prio:
15:03:13 <rpittau> #link https://tinyurl.com/ironic-weekly-prio-dash
15:03:54 <TheJulia> I see what is going on with mtu and all. we end up pinning the mtu on the bare interface to 1294 but ovn thinks the mtu is 1372 :(
15:04:00 <cid> o/
15:04:13 <rpittau> so ovn does not know how to count?
15:04:13 <TheJulia> full kernels likely have PMTU discovery
15:04:43 <TheJulia> Anyway, meeting
15:04:54 <rpittau> 2025.1 Epoxy Release Schedule
15:04:54 <rpittau> #link https://releases.openstack.org/epoxy/schedule.html
15:05:05 <rpittau> we're at -7 !
15:05:05 <rpittau> be aware that this week is oslo FF
15:05:53 <rpittau> Flamingo PTG will take place place April 7-11, 2025!
15:05:53 <rpittau> I'll add details and etherpad in the next days so we can start the conversation
15:06:04 <rpittau> PTL nomination period has started!
15:06:13 <rpittau> haven't seen any candidate so far
15:07:48 <rpittau> #topic Discussions
15:07:56 <TheJulia> Did we have consensus on doing DPL?
15:08:05 <rpittau> we don't have any planned topic for today
15:08:11 <rpittau> ok I guess we can discuss that :)
15:08:23 <rpittau> I'm of course ok with doing DPL
15:08:39 <JayF> If that's the route we want to go, I will volunteer to be the security liaison. It's kind of a natural extension of my work on the vmt.
15:09:14 <dtantsur> I can probably take some role but I don't remember what roles exist :D (which may make you think that I'm not very suitable)
15:09:19 <rpittau> and I will continue my work as release liaison :)
15:09:56 <JayF> The one thing we'll have to nail down is that the rules now require you to have a TC liaison, someone who is on the TC who's willing to also be down as a DPL number
15:09:58 <TheJulia> dtantsur: I think that is a perfectly acceptable indicator that maybe it is not well understood && also okay that we all forget things as time moves on
15:10:07 <JayF> Essentially, their job is primarily auditing to make sure that we exist and are doing a job
15:10:37 <dtantsur> It's an odd requirement, do we have the same for non-DPL project?
15:10:47 <dtantsur> I mean, it's odd if it's limited to DPL
15:10:50 <rpittau> I think for non-DPl is the PTL
15:11:14 <JayF> No, it was added during my tenure on the TC as an effort to prevent DPL from being used to prop up inactive projects.
15:11:47 <dtantsur> Well, that's not fair at all. So DPL projects are still treated as 2nd class ones.
15:11:49 <JayF> The other thing that's different about DPL in the last year or so is that it does get reset every cycle so we'll have to opt back in. Again, just to make sure everyone who is a liaison is engaged.
15:12:17 <dtantsur> rpittau: PTL is not a TC member
15:12:49 <JayF> Trust me when I say that that change in policy reflected a necessary pragmatic need, and was not intended to be any kind of bucketing of one or the other as second class.
15:13:06 <dtantsur> Well, it did exactly that
15:13:18 <masghar> o/ What if a project does not have someone on the technical committee?
15:13:24 <JayF> If you have a problem with the way it works now, we can choose to not use it until after you advocate and get a new policy passed.
15:13:29 <dtantsur> Also, I trust you, but also I can easily remember many projects that went MIA with a PTL appointed and so far none that disbanded in the DPL status
15:13:36 <rpittau> yep, I know, I skipped the part where it says that needs to be on the TC :)
15:13:42 <JayF> masghar: in the case of ironic, I would ask a TC member. I trust to be down as a liaison
15:13:55 <dtantsur> JayF: putting the burden on me after a questionable decision by the TC is.. questionable :)
15:14:05 <TheJulia> ... I think my wife just suggested I should be the PTL. Please convince me not to...
15:14:10 <JayF> Realistically, as far as the charter goes the TC already has PTL power on every project.
15:14:10 <masghar> Oh I see, so you can just ask a TC member in case you dont have a core on the TC?
15:14:17 <rpittau> TheJulia: don't do that! :D
15:14:49 <JayF> dtantsur: You're talking to someone who voted yes on the policy. I don't agree at all that it's questionable.
15:14:58 <TheJulia> rpittau: an 8th time for a corgi charm?!
15:15:00 <dtantsur> Well, I've just explained why it's bad
15:15:19 <JayF> dtantsur: I'll also note that during my tenure on the TC, we did tear down a lot of those projects that were being propped up by an AFK PTL
15:15:20 <dtantsur> You're making DPL-led projects guilty until proven otherwise, contrary to PTL-led projects
15:15:44 <cardoe> So I'm being quiet but I am a TC member. :-D
15:15:47 <JayF> Ptl has the natural catch of an election
15:15:48 <dtantsur> Which is not just about our feelings: this impression will probably spread further
15:15:57 <cardoe> The goal is like Jay said to not let inactive projects just say we're using DPL.
15:15:59 <rpittau> cardoe: I was going to tell :D
15:16:03 <JayF> So if someone is absent for 6 months, they can be voted out. DPL is by lazy consensus
15:16:03 <cardoe> It's a full reboot of DPL.
15:16:07 <dtantsur> resulting in "Oh, Ironic is DPL now, it means it's going to be discontinued"
15:16:10 <TheJulia> cardoe for president?!
15:16:29 <dtantsur> cardoe: and what prevents them from having a fake PTL?
15:16:31 <JayF> dtantsur: we're trying to suss out the projects that aren't active so that impression will go away. Because for the most part it was true before
15:16:35 <cardoe> I've already discussed Ironic will look at DPL and if we don't treat it like a bad thing then Ironic will adopt it.
15:16:50 <cardoe> dtantsur: nothing but we can replace the PTL easily and there's policy on it.
15:16:52 <rpittau> ironicptlbot ?
15:17:02 <TheJulia> rpittau++
15:17:02 <cardoe> And there's an obvious case of this person isn't doing stuff.
15:17:12 * dtantsur is not ready to dive too deep into yet another political issue
15:17:14 <dtantsur> whatever
15:17:25 <cardoe> While in the past DPL led to a project just saying "oh need person X and they're on PTO or didn't have access to email"
15:17:26 <dtantsur> If I can do something useful as part of the DPL model, let me kno0w
15:17:28 <cardoe> And it went round and round.
15:18:12 <rpittau> dtantsur: I understand your concerns and I kind of agree with them, but without a PTL we don't have a different way right now if not going as DPL with the current policy :/
15:18:56 <rpittau> cardoe: I guess you could be the TC liaison?
15:19:01 <opendevreview> Vasyl Saienko proposed openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin master: Improve check_vm_connectivity  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin/+/941054
15:19:01 <dtantsur> (we all are going to regret if you guilt-trip TheJulia or me to apply for PTL again, I promise :D)
15:19:02 <JayF> I would run for PTL myself in this case, but I intend on taking 6 to 8 weeks off next cycle and don't think it's a good idea for me to take on that responsibility when I know I'm going to be gone for up to a third of the cycle
15:19:16 * TheJulia gets out the iron fist of progress
15:19:18 <rpittau> dtantsur: no, sorry, that's not my  intention :)
15:19:24 <JayF> I don't think it's a negative for us to go DPL, I wouldn't have suggested it if I thought it was. I think it would be reflective of how our project works in practice.
15:20:04 <dtantsur> Yep, I fully agree with that. I got immediately scared of perception issues once you mentioned the requirement of having a supervisor to make sure we don't all run away.
15:20:49 <JayF> Honestly, I think of it as much as a person who runs the paperwork every year to reset the DPL cycle since our automation isn't there yet
15:21:28 <opendevreview> Vasyl Saienko proposed openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin master: Improve check_vm_connectivity  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin/+/941054
15:21:43 <rpittau> we still have some time before deciding, do we want to think more about it?
15:21:57 <rpittau> one more week?
15:22:15 <dtantsur> Let's make sure that "DPL is a way for projects to die" perception is really-really gone. That is my only concern.
15:22:25 <cardoe> That's the goal.
15:22:26 <rpittau> ok  :)
15:22:28 <JayF> If everyone is okay with it, I can send an email out to that thread describing the liaisons that we can get volunteers for them.
15:22:38 <rpittau> JayF: sounds great
15:22:41 <JayF> dtantsur: I think you see it in reverse, ironic taking on DPL will remove any vestiges of that perception
15:22:49 <dtantsur> Fair point
15:22:56 <dtantsur> JayF: aren't the role written somewhere already?
15:23:01 <JayF> dtantsur: ironic is one of the most active projects in all of openstack, we're unlikely to get mistaken for Some random inactive thing that gets three commits a cycle
15:23:11 <dtantsur> lol, true
15:23:14 <JayF> dtantsur: it is, I'm just going to link it in the thread and volunteer on the list to be the security liaison
15:23:21 <dtantsur> JayF++
15:23:27 <rpittau> perfect JayF
15:24:30 <rpittau> anything else on the DPl/PTL topic for now?
15:24:51 <rpittau> (besides why I always type DPl with a lowercase L)
15:25:39 <dtantsur> In the current climate, "D" must stand for "Deep". I'm not making the rules.
15:25:58 <rpittau> :D
15:25:58 <rpittau> ok, ok, anything else to discuss today?
15:26:12 <dtantsur> ChatGPT for PTL?
15:26:16 <dtantsur> sorry, sorry, I shut up already
15:26:24 <rpittau> DeepSeek ? ;)
15:26:31 <dtantsur> D for Deep, you see?
15:26:35 <cardoe> Didn't someone volunteer to write a Hardware Manager doc for IPA?
15:26:36 <rpittau> gosh!
15:27:00 <rpittau> cardoe: I vaguely remember
15:27:10 <JayF> cardoe: if youll write, a bug about what needs to be documented I can make time to update the documentation, I should understand it well enough
15:27:11 <dtantsur> There are *some* docs. I guess you mean much better docs?
15:27:19 <JayF> If someone volunteered to do it it's possibly me and I just forgot anyway
15:27:38 <JayF> But like dtantsur references, it's already extremely well documented, so I'm curious if it's something that's just written down in a hard to find place
15:27:52 <cardoe> Well just from reviewing Julia's bootc stuff. I thought there was some plan on documenting custom agent more and custom hardware managers more.
15:27:54 <JayF> That'll be extremely valuable for me downstream as my MLH fellow starts today and he'll be working on hardware manager bits
15:28:55 <cardoe> I do want to schedule something to discuss the inspector hooks and inspector rules in more detail with folks that are interested in it.
15:29:17 <cardoe> I've got a use case that I've roughly sketched up that I'll add more details to
15:29:18 <JayF> I'd suggest you schedule something directly with CID and I can try to make it if it overlaps with my TZ
15:30:05 * dtantsur registers his interest
15:30:32 <kubajj> o/
15:30:33 <cid> ++, as long as that day is not tomorrow ;)
15:30:56 <JayF> I have something else for general discussion if there's time?
15:31:05 <rpittau> cardoe, cid, maybe right down times/dates and discussion topics in an etherpad?
15:31:08 <rpittau> JayF: please go ahead
15:31:14 <JayF> Just curious if we want to make an Ironic meetup/BoF/etc for the OIF Days colocated with SCALE this year.
15:31:18 <rpittau> errr s/right/write
15:31:29 <JayF> Figured this would be a good place to see if we have any number of regular contributors going there.
15:31:32 <dtantsur> JayF: where is that?
15:31:36 <dtantsur> and when?
15:31:37 <rpittau> was goingt o ask the same
15:31:47 * dtantsur is, as usually nowdays, clueless
15:31:49 <masghar> (also interested in the inspection hooks and rules)
15:31:49 <JayF> Southern California USA in March; it's the North American OpenInfra Days colocated there
15:32:00 <JayF> I'm speaking on OpenStack in the Real World
15:32:14 <rpittau> too close and too far at the same time :D
15:32:16 <dtantsur> Ah, USA. Pass from me.
15:32:28 <JayF> I don't blame you; I'm not trying to say folks should come just taking an inventory :)
15:32:48 <dtantsur> I'm very looking forward towards learning if/when/where the OIF event in Europe will be
15:32:53 <dtantsur> (please don't tell me everyone already knows that)
15:33:16 <JayF> I would not expect me to attend too many conferences outside of SCALE this year; maybe something in the last half of the year and maybe pycon but I'm trying to travel less this year
15:33:45 <rpittau> dtantsur: May 22 in Paris, for me at least :)
15:34:47 <dtantsur> rpittau: is it the same thing as last year? I cannot find anything for 2025..
15:35:05 <rpittau> oh it's 2024, nvm
15:35:08 <priteau> dtantsur: There was a message just a few days ago from Helena last week on our Scientific SIG Slack.
15:35:14 <priteau> > We are still working through the venue proposals, but we should have a decision the week after next. Timing for the Summit: we are looking at July, Aug or September, depending on the proposal we go with
15:35:26 <opendevreview> Merged openstack/ironic-python-agent master: Revert "Configure ipa bugfix 10.1"  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-python-agent/+/941087
15:35:51 <rpittau> thanks priteau
15:35:53 <dtantsur> Exciting!
15:36:08 <dtantsur> (summer season is pretty unfortunate, of course)
15:36:37 <priteau> I hope they don't pick the middle of the summer when many people in Europe are on break
15:36:43 <JayF> So I take the lack of takers as a comment that it's only gonig to be me (+ maybe TheJulia?) at SCALE for Ironic this year?
15:36:45 <dtantsur> yeah, me for example
15:36:54 <JayF> If so I still might form a BoF for users, but that'll be good to know
15:37:28 <rpittau> yep summer is out for me too, especially aug-sep :/
15:37:46 <rpittau> unless it's in Sardegna :D
15:38:09 <dtantsur> one can dream :D
15:38:49 <rpittau> alright dear ironicers, any  more discussion topics for today ?
15:38:52 <TheJulia> I'll be at SCALE
15:39:50 <TheJulia> Unknown if I'll be able to exit and reenter the US at this point
15:40:01 <TheJulia> so it may be my only thing of the year
15:40:11 <rpittau> :(
15:40:24 <dtantsur> Sorry to hear about this and.. everything
15:40:36 <TheJulia> c'est la vie... I think
15:41:00 <cardoe> SCALE always happens when my kids are on spring break so I've not been able to make it since school for them started.
15:41:17 <TheJulia> cardoe: I know at least *one* booth will have coloring books!
15:41:41 <cardoe> oh if only that worked...
15:41:46 <TheJulia> :(
15:41:48 <TheJulia> oh well
15:42:11 <cardoe> You've not been called into the office because your kid emailed out a password list for the entire grade in 3rd? or 4th grade...
15:42:22 <rpittau> ok, going to close for real now, we can keep discussing after
15:42:22 <rpittau> thanks everyone!
15:42:27 <rpittau> #endmeeting