16:01:08 #startmeeting kolla 16:01:09 Meeting started Wed Jun 10 16:01:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rhallisey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:01:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:01:13 The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' 16:01:21 #topic rollcall 16:01:26 hello 16:01:28 hi 16:01:29 hi 16:01:31 hi! 16:01:34 hi :) ! 16:01:35 here i am 16:01:46 o/ [visiting..] 16:01:48 o/ 16:01:51 yar folks o/ 16:02:01 hey juggler visiting :) 16:02:14 yello sdake! 16:02:33 hey hall 16:02:35 hey all 16:02:41 hi 16:02:54 hey 16:03:29 #topic Announcements 16:03:50 Ok so we are looking to do a mid cycle meetup 16:03:59 #link http://doodle.com/su62amktdrp5mrez 16:04:14 lets take ~2min to check that out 16:04:26 it will be help in San Jose 16:04:37 help is the right word :) 16:04:38 held* 16:04:45 ha 16:05:27 are you interested in having new people attend or is it more of a working session? 16:05:28 any Kolla dev is welcome, it looks like we will have good participation 16:05:31 jpeeler around? 16:05:36 i also invited the operators 16:05:47 i get mandre can't make it from europe 16:05:50 i'm here 16:06:01 curious what your conflicts are for the second two weeks 16:06:03 is it like a pto thing? 16:06:12 it would be cool if you could do some hangouts as part of it 16:06:24 jasonsb, I would say it's a working session, but there are lots of new people so I would say anyone is welcome 16:06:27 for us who can't make it across the water 16:06:34 rhallisey: awesome 16:06:36 sdake: i'm going to be on my honeymoon! 16:06:47 but i doubt there's travel funds for me anyway 16:06:50 jasonb absolutely midcycles are open to the public 16:06:57 oh no shit 16:07:00 well grats to ya ! 16:07:01 daneyon, hey 16:07:31 hey 16:07:31 jpeeler I may have to schedule you out of the meeting looking at the current poll stats unfortunately 16:07:33 +1 pdb. not sure if you are having this stuff in a room that has video-conf tech for remote folks. 16:07:36 hey dnayeon 16:07:52 we will likely have full telepresence via webex 16:08:01 but I can't confirm until I have dates 16:08:04 that is why it wasn't in the announcement post 16:08:11 I'm sure we can accommodate 16:08:20 Did I miss rollcall ? 16:08:21 sdake: thanks! it's ok - not sure about funding like i said 16:08:33 jmccarthy, yes, that's ok :) 16:08:36 I'm here =) 16:08:48 I think the bot recorded you jmcc :) 16:09:00 ok next, there has been a suggestion to change the time of this meeting from 1600 UTC to 1700 UTC 16:09:14 * jpeeler just saw the telepresence comment 16:09:28 no 16:09:31 if you have an issue with that or you like that idea please respond on the email thread with a +1 or a -1 16:09:37 i can barely stay up for this one 16:09:54 yeah I already replied on the mailing list but it would be a -1 from me 16:10:04 samyaple do you usually make the 2200 meeting? 16:10:08 no 16:10:24 SamY curious, what is the localtime for you? 16:10:29 express your concern via mailing list and we will address that time in two weeks 16:10:35 Central/US, but im thirdshift juggler 16:10:38 rhallisey: will do 16:10:43 SamYaple, thanks 16:11:01 #topic Manifesto Definition Finalization 16:11:12 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-manifesto 16:11:18 SamY ouch, thanks for being here then :) 16:11:30 no thank YOU juggler 16:11:35 last week we voted on this 16:11:55 I just wanted to see if we can come to a final consensus 16:12:11 may i make two observations of feedback? 16:12:25 juggler no 16:12:32 ok :) 16:12:39 you mean on the manifesto? 16:12:47 sure 16:12:49 actually 3 16:13:01 which feedback, if its the stuf we did last week no 16:13:10 if its the stuff in lines 5-20 yes :) 16:13:24 the stuff in line 5 16:13:31 ok feel free :) 16:13:33 and line 1 16:14:05 line 5: I think the "is" should be an "are" 16:14:10 anyone who hasn't approved/disapproved leave a +1/-1 below line 5 16:14:23 line 5: I think "production ready" should be "production-ready" 16:14:41 juggler, leave your feedback as a comment 16:14:50 juggler this is what he voting is for :) 16:15:22 I think most of the community is voted, but anyone who hasn't yet you have 2 min 16:15:52 line 1: Although Manifesto is a valid word, it does weigh some possibly controversial connotations. Perhaps considering a different word, such as "framework" or "action plan" might be suitable considering the open source community experience 16:16:12 community's manifesto... 16:16:23 just some outside observations :) 16:16:42 manifesto is fine. just because some people have had some odd / questionable ones doesn't make the word invalid :) 16:17:06 bmace+1 voice of reason ;) 16:18:06 It seem like the general idea and most of the wording is in agreement 16:18:22 that is good progress 16:18:31 can we finalize the wording ? :) 16:18:34 when do we get the tshirts? 16:18:35 pop the champange 16:18:49 pdb lol 16:18:59 how do you want to do that sdake? have folks write out the full thing with final wording and then vote on those? 16:19:03 rhallisey indeed 16:19:10 bmace seems to heavyweight 16:19:28 sdake, yes, but we need to make another draft 16:19:31 bmace there is one bone of conflict, the use of is vs are 16:19:32 or come up with a summary of the micro-changes to the existing one and then people vote on those? the is vs. are thing is a common one. 16:19:36 i say git commit and let the patches decide 16:19:51 both is and are are wrong here imo 16:19:57 sure, i think there are several suggestions to yank or re-order a couple of words, some for the sake of minimum verbosity. 16:20:04 what would be best is which, which removes the plurality 16:20:05 danehans suggestion is perfect imo 16:20:22 I agree with danehans suggestion also 16:20:27 I think that part came from my original suggestion, my intention was it was the OpenStack that results from kolla that is fast/stable etc. 16:20:31 danehans suggestion sovles problem 16:21:07 can someone make a new draft above the old draft (rhallisey?) with the suggested change so we can read i t in full glory 16:21:12 ya I got it 16:22:06 ok quick check for errors 16:22:22 i dont think we need to revote or anything since the wording doesn't materially change the mission 16:22:33 fine with me 16:22:41 yup 16:22:48 any objections.. let me look at other comments 16:23:02 how about production-ready ? 16:23:19 juggler that is probably better 16:23:27 I'm fine with that 16:23:54 jmccarthy, you had another comment? 16:24:12 anyone else? 16:24:14 just from what i've seen in industry :) 16:24:18 Not intentionally - just the one 16:24:42 jmccarthy, I like having fast as an adjective for kolla 16:25:07 Ok I have no major gripe with it, I was just trying to find something to chop 16:25:08 agree i like fast 16:25:11 +1 on fast 16:25:16 ok cool 16:25:22 +1 for trying to be fast at least :) 16:25:24 good work on that 16:25:27 lots of community input 16:25:31 trying to be fast lol :) 16:25:32 moving on 16:25:41 ya brain melt making that one happen ;) 16:25:44 #topic Continuous integration 16:25:47 I'll update the wiki with it soon 16:25:55 SamYaple, jpeeler any updates? 16:26:30 i have not been able to provice jpeeler with an aio networking deal yet 16:26:33 no, i've been waiting on the networking changes ow baremetal installs to communicate properly 16:26:43 linux-bridge agent is messing with the l2 stuff 16:26:49 i can get ovs to work 16:26:54 SamYaple, any idea for a time frame? 16:27:16 honestly i dont know if linux bridge can work with a single nic 16:27:29 * sdake groans 16:27:41 yea my reaction too 16:27:46 :( 16:27:48 samyaple what about with that mosnterof a script i pasted using bridges 16:27:59 * SamYaple groans 16:28:01 could that be in some way used even if it were hacky 16:28:14 if it can be hacky, then creating a few vlxan interfaces hsould work 16:28:28 but it will be hacky for sure 16:28:31 i think we are good with hacky 16:28:35 really just want signle nic solution 16:28:38 hacky > impossible 16:28:38 i cant get floating ips to work is the issue here 16:28:39 what does it take teo create vxlan interfaces 16:28:51 bmace +1 16:28:54 i mean with a single interface, im not sure about vxlan 16:29:42 ok needs further investigation.. noted 16:29:46 well dont care how its done, but needs to be done - if you can't do it, I'm not really sure what the next step is 16:30:04 because I tried andfailed, fang tried and failed, you tried and resultspending :) 16:30:08 your our last great hope :) 16:30:16 hi guys! 16:30:19 why can we not use two or more interfaces again? 16:30:22 harmw, hey 16:30:26 o/ 16:30:33 samyaple the gate machine only has one interface I think 16:30:37 ok 16:30:48 its not like we get to say "hey I want 4 routed interfaces" to infra 16:30:52 jpeeler, can you double check that tho 16:31:00 and i'm sure others only have one nic too 16:31:01 it maybe we get two interfaces 16:31:11 my coreos dockervm has only 1 nic, and that 'just works' so I'm interested in what the issue is 16:31:14 beyond the gate problem alot of ofolks want to quickly run kolla 16:31:18 right 16:31:20 and quikcly and neutron don't go hand in hand 16:31:22 indeed 16:31:30 i mean, if neutron is using infra, then they have to either have multiple interfaces or solved this issue 16:31:36 devstack works with just one nic. surely docker can 16:31:40 SamYaple: thats what I was thinking 16:31:45 devstack uses ovs jpeeler 16:31:46 jpeeler: right, but with linuxbridge? 16:31:53 ovs i can do in my sleep 16:32:00 and we cant use ovs because? 16:32:02 i missed why we must use linux bridge (not a networking guy) 16:32:12 that is all we got atm jpeeler 16:32:15 OVS container doesnt exist yet 16:32:16 we don't have ovs yet 16:32:25 but ideally we should have ovs and linuxbridge as options 16:32:27 Im going to submit on top of fang to get that finished 16:32:28 ya OVS is WIP 16:32:31 those are the two that peope lwant 16:32:34 so maybe we have a new pre-req? 16:32:44 by the way...whats up with ovs? this one is kinda critical... 16:33:05 inc0: i was waiting on fang, but i see no progress for a while. ill check with fang and patch ontop 16:33:11 its blocked waiting for docker 1.7 afaik 16:33:13 inc0, feng has been working on it, I believe he said it works 16:33:13 he is 90% done 16:33:19 or close to 16:33:20 pdb: it is not 16:33:27 oh, disregard then :) 16:33:34 docker 1.6 was neutron magic, 1.7 cinder magic 16:33:36 or something :) 16:33:41 we are not blocked on docker 1.7 for anything atm but cinder and we are good there with the dev versions 16:33:44 ya 1.7 is required for cinder :) 16:33:58 cinder/neutron namespace propogation 16:34:04 yep 16:34:16 ok we're getting a little off topic, let's move on 16:34:18 if ovs sovles this gating problem 16:34:23 I guess I would be good with it 16:34:24 carry over the discussion 16:34:29 #topic Liberty Priority Review 16:34:30 aye aye 16:34:41 would be nice to gate on linuxbridge tho ;) 16:34:47 sdake, agreed 16:34:56 first BP: Add a HA container for RabbitMQ 16:35:12 rhallisey: that souldnt be a seperate container 16:35:13 was someone working on this? 16:35:19 mstachow will, correct Michal? 16:35:25 after Galera 16:35:30 That's correct 16:35:33 rabbitmq _is_ HA, it just needs configuration 16:35:40 mirroring, right? 16:35:55 just an fyi, we're going to go through these BP's quickly 16:35:56 you have to tell the other nodes how to join the cluster, thats it really 16:35:59 30sec ea 16:36:01 That means we will have updated rabbitmq container ;) 16:36:27 SamYaple, next you have two 16:36:28 Generate ini-type configuration files dynamically 16:36:32 Run with one Interface with Neutron 16:36:46 can you update the status of those? If anything has changed 16:37:10 generate ini waiting on the spec sdake wrote 16:37:17 jpeeler, Use tempest to gate our built infrastructure same to you 16:37:30 it will tweak how its finally commited as 16:37:37 ok thanks 16:37:43 inc0, Turn galera into a container 16:37:53 rhallisey was that gating thing a milestone 1 blueprint? 16:37:54 I saw your review is up 16:38:03 That's me - not inc0 16:38:04 its mstachow's , but yeah 16:38:11 oh woops 16:38:14 sdake, ya 16:38:21 imo we should move that out 16:38:28 sdake, ok 16:38:31 (he is also Michal, be careful!) 16:38:31 too much blockage 16:38:42 mstachow, change you status as needed 16:38:56 lets see I have a few Cinder BPs 16:39:09 they just need reviews, which would be greatly welcomed 16:39:14 reminder: date is June 25th 16:39:19 for deadline 16:39:27 rhallisey: again? guess I missed that 16:39:38 harmw, I haven't updated yet I'm on pto 16:39:40 next week 16:39:43 ok, cool 16:39:52 i need to write on up for ironic, will do that today 16:40:00 the final BP's look good they all have code reviews up 16:40:12 jpeeler write up what a blueprint? 16:40:12 so folks keep up on the code reviews as best as you can 16:40:17 there's lots to look at 16:40:19 sdake: yeah 16:40:31 jpeeler there is already a blueprint 16:40:34 jpeeler, I thought there was one 16:40:39 oh my bad 16:40:52 jpeeler if you want to take it over feel free :) 16:41:01 I'm not sure whos working on it 16:41:01 or if its being worked on 16:41:18 I don't think anyone has worked on it yet 16:41:19 ironic will be required for contenerizing tripleo's undercloud, so I'd opt for bumping priority up 16:41:28 yeah i'll take it over if nobody is... 16:41:30 inc0, it would be yes 16:41:37 jpeeler, cool thanks 16:41:45 so quick thing about these priorities 16:41:46 inc0: that's why :) 16:41:51 * sdake gets on soapbox 16:42:01 there are a million containers we could produce 16:42:11 well not really, more like another 20 or so for various services 16:42:21 this would require packaging the big tent 16:42:29 I think we have a solid kset of serivces to start with 16:42:40 if there are some gaps for things like tripleo, lets get those done 16:42:52 but i'd like to see us focus more on the deploy side of things in the short term 16:43:01 rather then packaging the big tent 16:43:01 that is a job for RDO 16:43:08 or source base installs when we get to it 16:43:13 * sdake gets off soapbox ;) 16:43:20 +1 on deployment for starters 16:43:23 agreed 16:43:27 +1 16:43:44 plus multihost 16:44:05 ok cool 16:44:11 on that note.. 16:44:17 #topic Ansible Deployment Tooling 16:44:19 anyway something to thing about re why things are prioritized the wayt hey are and organized into various liberty-xyz 16:44:37 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189157/ 16:45:03 nice 30 comments! 16:45:05 this is the current spec for ansible 16:45:28 there is quite a discussion about external configs 16:45:46 enough so i believe it warrants existing as an option 16:45:49 thanks for the comments everyone... If we want to have any further discussion about the spec we can do that now 16:45:50 external configs and 56-57 seem to be the hot areas on the config 16:45:53 on teh spec 16:46:19 sdake, I think external config is a great feature 16:46:21 lines 56-57 16:46:43 SamYaple, thing is, I'm reluctant on having 2 methods of configs 16:46:46 for lines 56-57 should we just tell people to piss off :) 16:46:47 anyone want to voice their opinion? 16:46:54 inc0: were going to have 2 period 16:46:57 the thing to note here is that SamYaple has come up with a way that may satisfy both sides 16:47:00 crudini is one of them 16:47:19 the bind/env methods are very simliar, enough to count as one in my opinion 16:47:21 it essentially allows external configs while maintaining the idempotency requirement 16:47:39 pdb you mean immutability requirement 16:47:39 the lines of code bind ands would be 10-20, maybe 16:47:44 SamYaple: yes sorry 16:48:04 so my current vote is to support that + crudini 16:48:09 so re two sources of truth 16:48:30 will we be pushing full cfg files with this? or just the bits that apply to a shipped config-dist? 16:48:31 samyaple your proposal doesn't solve that problem? 16:48:42 harmw that is covered inthe spec 16:48:46 ok 16:49:02 hmm it does not :( 16:49:08 one bonus of having 2 configs is when we get to deploying the many setups of neutron/cinder, it will be easier to generate those containers from a config file someone has already created 16:49:23 i think there is an option that we discussed, i don't know if it is in the spec yet.. but there would be a flag that controls if kolla pushes out configs at all.. after the initial set up the user can just manage all their configs however they want, puppet, chef... vi + rsync, whatever. 16:49:28 sdake: i dont know if it solves that since i dont fully understand "two sources of truth", but it is a very big deal to most people and _not_ a required method 16:49:51 i believe sdake is concerned about having multiple places "in charge" of the config data. 16:49:54 bmace, exactly 16:50:04 which is why it needs to be clearly either a) kolla control or b) user control. 16:50:31 samyaple reading your 7:09 proposal atm 16:50:40 i believe I can tie env/bind/users own config all together 16:50:46 rhallisey, at some point we might want to have different configs on several nodes, so you'd need to use different containers with just one option that differs? 16:51:09 it dont believe it will add that much extra work, it certianly wont be dokcer start commands 16:51:20 extra* docker start commands 16:52:24 inc0, kolla as a tool can be used to build and run containers 16:52:25 out of interest, am I the only one who is not a fan of the env method regardless of the internal/external debate? 16:52:31 the 3 cases as I see them 16:52:31 1 env variables as spec describes 16:52:31 2 ansible lays out configs and the get bind mounted into the container, local changes persist to config until ansible runs again 16:52:34 3 user managed configs 16:52:43 so we can allow users to build their own or we can build them and they can run them 16:53:06 pdb: no, im not a fan. but i understand the argument 16:53:18 my suggestion: just expose /etc/myproject from host to container and have config there 16:53:38 this breaks immutability! 16:53:41 I don't see why kolla should even care about config management? this is muddy place 16:53:53 sdake: i dont think anyone cares at that level 16:54:04 but you can keep immutability with the env option 16:54:21 is the env option you mean the docker moduels you created? 16:54:25 sdake at least it doesn't allow for the modification of the config file while the container is actually running, so better than a straight up bind / direct-read. 16:54:27 yes sdake 16:54:37 bmace agreed 16:54:49 so as I red your 7:08 proposal have 3 models 16:54:59 1 is crudini 16:55:08 2 is bindmount with immutability brekage 16:55:18 3 is docker env without immutabilitybreakage 16:55:36 yes. all user managed configs can be lumped in with 2 16:55:38 2 results in two sources of truth as well 16:55:38 there's a variation on 2) that gives mutability 16:55:55 *immutability 16:55:57 :/ 16:56:00 pdb: there really isnt 16:56:04 i want to hear variation of 2 that gives immutability 16:56:05 immutability is something we shouldn't throw away easily.. 16:56:22 container copies configs into itself on start 16:56:40 pdb, changes of configs will be small pit in hell 16:56:53 pdb: yea but thats the same as doign it the env way, since ansible starts it 16:56:59 with 2, either kolla blows down new config files and wipes out any local changes, or they configure an option to control all configs themselves.. so there is only one master, that is the intent at least. 16:57:21 SamYaple: you can drop your own configs on there for it to grab though 16:57:24 why can't we do 1 and 3 ( as optional)? 16:57:29 also, we'll want services to be able to reread configs without restarting, and all these makes this impossible 16:57:35 rhallisey: would be my vote 16:57:43 1 is our primary and 3 as optional 16:57:47 inc0: thats not possible anyway 16:57:49 should we move in complete configs, we'll be tasked with keeping those up2date as well... we shouldn't be bottered with that 16:57:55 SamYaple, actually it is 16:57:59 using oslo.config 16:58:24 but what is lacking is way to call it inside service, but that's not that hard 16:58:27 inc0: are you saying sevices reread thier configs on the fly right now? 16:58:32 hey guys keep in mind we have 2min left 16:58:39 table that inc0 16:58:39 (was about to say just that) 16:58:50 oslo.config is web scale 16:59:12 all of the users and admins I have spoken with want option 2 to exist 16:59:18 it doesnt need to be default, but it needs to be there 16:59:31 ok i would relaly like to get to the bottom of the config strategy, so can we overflow for a bit into #kolla since our time is out :) 16:59:40 SamYaple, why do they care about option 2 if you can offer 3? 16:59:43 I come from ops background and yeah, ops will want it, immutability or not 17:00:02 rhallisey: #kolla 17:00:07 option 2 makes me think of devstack 17:00:15 ok out of time 17:00:23 we will move over to #kolla 17:00:27 thanks all! 17:00:40 #endmeeting kolla