16:31:33 <inc0> #startmeeting kolla
16:31:34 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Dec 23 16:31:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:31:35 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:31:38 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'kolla'
16:31:43 <inc0> #topic rollcall
16:31:48 <nihilifer> o/
16:31:50 <Jeffrey4l_> o/
16:31:54 <inc0> hello everyone, show of hands please
16:31:58 <elemoine> o/
16:31:58 <akwasnie> hi once again:)
16:32:27 <britthouser> 0/
16:32:45 <inc0> #topic agenda
16:32:53 <inc0> nothing in agenda;)
16:32:57 <inc0> this will be short one
16:33:17 <inc0> #topic open discussion
16:33:31 <Jeffrey4l> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/260389/ here
16:33:50 <nihilifer> yep, the first free topic i wanted to discuss
16:33:55 <nihilifer> is the migration to oslo.config
16:34:02 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l did the awesome work on that
16:34:12 <nihilifer> the question is whether anyone is ok with that
16:34:28 <Jeffrey4l> use oslo.config
16:35:03 <inc0> I kinda wonder if that would not be overkill
16:35:33 <inc0> argparse is part of stdlib, I'd like to minimize impact required for running kolla
16:35:50 <Jeffrey4l> as the result of talk with nihilifer and mandre today,it is break the back compatibility now.
16:36:09 <nihilifer> well, we require a lot of things from pip already
16:36:23 <nihilifer> so i don't consider adding oslo.config dep a big issue
16:36:34 <Jeffrey4l> oslo.config is a "stdlib" for openstack project.
16:36:41 <inc0> nihilifer, what besides docker-py and ansible?
16:36:42 <nihilifer> but Jeffrey4l reminded one more problematic thing
16:36:45 <Jeffrey4l> almost all the project useing it.
16:37:09 <nihilifer> inc0: Jinja2, pbr, gitdb, git, six
16:37:14 <nihilifer> maybe not a lot
16:37:30 <inc0> jinja2 comes with ansible
16:38:19 <inc0> oslo assumes that you have most of global requirements installed, and they will freely add new dependencies
16:38:40 <SamYaple> o/
16:38:44 <nihilifer> hey SamYaple
16:38:50 <inc0> and unless there is real benefit to it, I don't really want to add dependencies to deployment host
16:38:53 <ajafo> o/
16:39:08 <inc0> small footprint on hosts is one of our values
16:39:09 <dims_> inc0 : we do try to hold the line with basic libs like oslo.config and oslo.log :)
16:39:29 <inc0> dims_, but thing with kolla is - we're kinda different
16:39:37 <nihilifer> hi dims_, good to have you here :)
16:39:37 <dims_> inc0 : that's fair
16:39:46 <SamYaple> id be ok with oslo.config since we have the proposal bot in place already
16:39:49 <inc0> we require like 5 python libs now
16:39:57 <dims_> not pushing for oslo.config, just making sure we understand concerns
16:40:15 <inc0> right now it's discussion oslo.log vs python stdlib
16:40:25 <inc0> oslo.config*
16:40:37 <dims_> inc0 : yep, no issues using python stdlib, it's all good
16:40:39 <SamYaple> unless there is a limitation of the standard lib, i dont see a need to change
16:40:41 <nihilifer> oslo.config will introduce two libs more
16:40:47 <nihilifer> stevedore and netaddr
16:41:00 <inc0> I'm not against it, don't get me wrong, just thinking what's real benefit, remember it's really simple python script we're talking about
16:41:03 <dims_> nihilifer : we are trying to remove netaddr
16:41:13 <nihilifer> dims_: oh, ok, nice
16:41:23 <SamYaple> ew yea not a fan of netaddr
16:41:27 <dims_> blocked on some pip work with extra dependencies
16:41:29 <SamYaple> would be great to remove that
16:41:30 <inc0> nihilifer, and stevedore has it's own deps
16:41:39 <inc0> all I'm asking is...what's the reason for change?
16:41:50 <inc0> apart from "openstack uses it"
16:41:51 <dims_> inc0 : +1 good question,
16:42:00 <nihilifer> ok, so closing dep things https://github.com/openstack/stevedore/blob/master/requirements.txt
16:42:07 <nihilifer> it uses what we already have
16:42:11 <nihilifer> going to reasons
16:42:27 <nihilifer> the first nice feature, autogenerating sample configs from code
16:42:36 <Jeffrey4l> oslo.config handle thing graceful.
16:42:50 <nihilifer> so it requires less effort from developer introducing new setting
16:42:56 <nihilifer> second nice thing
16:43:05 <nihilifer> it already discovers where the config is
16:43:27 <nihilifer> whether it's /etc/ or somewhere near project cloned from git
16:43:30 <SamYaple> are you suggesting we don't need to have /etc/kolla as a hard-unchanging-path?
16:43:39 <nihilifer> yep
16:43:44 <SamYaple> i like both of these things
16:43:55 <SamYaple> this is worth pursuing for either of those reasons
16:43:56 * dims_ has to run. can take questions later this afternoon on #openstack-oslo :)
16:43:56 <nihilifer> and we can get rid of all code in kolla dealing with directory discovery
16:44:04 <SamYaple> thanks dims_ !
16:44:09 <nihilifer> tha'ts the main reasom i introduced it in kolla-mesos
16:44:13 <inc0> thanks dims_
16:44:24 <nihilifer> we didn't want to write a code checking paths
16:44:34 <inc0> ok, you got me convinced
16:44:51 <SamYaple> ive recently made alot of effort to remove the path things in ansible with the "simmplfy config" patch
16:45:08 <SamYaple> so with oslo.config we can most likely remove the hard dep on /etc/kolla
16:45:12 <SamYaple> for kolla-ansible
16:45:14 <inc0> yeah, I don't like us having hardcoded config path as well, we should gradually get rid of it
16:45:24 <nihilifer> for example, we could try to get rid of using something like that https://github.com/openstack/kolla/blob/master/kolla/cmd/build.py#L242
16:45:27 <inc0> same for build.py
16:45:40 <SamYaple> nihilifer: i dont even have to look it up, i know that section
16:45:45 <SamYaple> i was thinking about it as well
16:45:58 <inc0> ok, let's do this, thanks for clarification guys
16:46:13 <SamYaple> +2 for proceeding from me
16:46:13 <nihilifer> ok
16:46:22 <nihilifer> there is a second thing in oslo.config
16:46:25 <nihilifer> we must discuss
16:46:39 <nihilifer> when you register cli argument "foo"
16:46:45 <nihilifer> and it's a boolean setting
16:46:53 <nihilifer> oslo.config automatically defines --nofoo
16:46:57 <inc0> aha! first make them agree then push forward! well played sir
16:47:00 <nihilifer> as a logical negation
16:47:06 <SamYaple> nice
16:47:15 <SamYaple> it will change the --no-cache arg then
16:47:31 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l's concern was
16:47:36 <nihilifer> whether changing --no-cache
16:47:39 <nihilifer> to --cache
16:47:46 <nihilifer> and automatically generated --nocache
16:47:51 <nihilifer> is fine for you
16:47:59 <SamYaple> as long as the default is unchanged, i think its fine
16:48:01 <nihilifer> it will break a backwards compatibility
16:48:03 <inc0> --nocache != --no-cache
16:48:17 <nihilifer> but imo it's not huge change and benefits are better
16:48:17 <SamYaple> nihilifer: not necessarily, we can put in --no-cache and deprecate it
16:48:20 <Jeffrey4l> yep. it break the compatibility.
16:48:35 <nihilifer> SamYaple: --no-cache will be negated as --nono-cache
16:48:38 <inc0> if we add --no-cache option to oslo.config
16:48:38 <nihilifer> that's the thing
16:48:41 <SamYaple> nihilifer: i know
16:48:49 <SamYaple> so we deprecate it
16:49:01 <inc0> it will create --nono-cache right? but old --no-cache works
16:49:05 <SamYaple> a little migration cruft we cary for a cycle
16:49:33 <nihilifer> inc0: yes, it will create --nono-cache and there is no way to disable such a behavior in oslo.config
16:49:48 <Jeffrey4l> So, we will have two option? --no-cache and --cache ? with the automatically inversed `--nono-cache` and `--nocach` ?
16:49:51 <inc0> nihilifer, so if we do that and deprecate --no-cache
16:50:04 <SamYaple> Jeffrey4l: yea
16:50:05 <inc0> it will be our migration cruft
16:50:16 <SamYaple> we deprecate --no-cache and remove it in N
16:50:20 <nihilifer> ok
16:50:21 <Jeffrey4l> I agreed.
16:50:30 <nihilifer> good to heat that you're fine with that
16:50:39 <Jeffrey4l> oslo.config also support the deprected thing.
16:50:47 <SamYaple> yup :)
16:51:01 <SamYaple> with the removal of /etc/kolla we can go full non-root
16:51:10 <Jeffrey4l> another thing is that `--template` options. it is a time to remove?
16:51:15 <Jeffrey4l> yep
16:51:26 <SamYaple> Jeffrey4l: i mean we can
16:51:30 <inc0> yeah, we already removed non-templated dockers
16:51:30 <SamYaple> but it hasn't been a cycle
16:51:55 <Jeffrey4l> so we should do it later? right?
16:51:55 <SamYaple> it was something that was only temp in the liberty branch anyway
16:52:12 <SamYaple> i dont think it really matters Jeffrey4l, we can leave it to be safe but if its a problem remove it
16:52:46 <Jeffrey4l> OK. got it.
16:52:48 <inc0> I'm ok with just deleting it
16:52:54 <nihilifer> me too
16:53:08 <inc0> it doesn't work anyway
16:53:09 <SamYaple> its been a dead option for longer than it was a working one
16:53:14 <inc0> yup
16:54:00 <inc0> and it was broken in 1.0 so unless you have like mid-liberty stuff running (and I'm talking about 1 month time window) you're ok
16:54:08 <inc0> and if you do, well, sorry to hear that
16:54:29 <SamYaple> i think we can move on, whats on the docket next?
16:54:31 <Jeffrey4l> there is another  back compatility. the [kolla-build] section should be renamed to [DEFAULT].
16:54:35 <Jeffrey4l> it that ok for you?
16:54:42 <SamYaple> oh hmm
16:54:49 <inc0> so, config changes are different
16:54:50 <SamYaple> can we somehow make that compatible?
16:55:05 <SamYaple> i know oslo supports options from different sections
16:55:10 <inc0> I'm -1 unless it's backward compatible
16:55:16 <nihilifer> hmmm... we may create section [kolla-build] using oslo.config
16:55:21 <SamYaple> agreed, we do have to be backwards compatible
16:55:23 <nihilifer> and just leave [DEFAULT] empty
16:55:31 <nihilifer> that's what we're doing in kolla-mesos
16:55:35 <SamYaple> nihilifer: thats fine
16:55:47 <Jeffrey4l> we may can use deprecate session feature.
16:55:58 <SamYaple> we could also do that, then move the options and deprecate the old spots
16:55:58 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l: no need for that
16:56:10 <nihilifer> we can just create cfg.OptGroup('kolla-build')
16:56:11 <Jeffrey4l> s/session/section/
16:56:14 <nihilifer> and put all stuff there
16:56:25 <SamYaple> there is really no wrong answer here as long as its backwards compatible
16:56:29 <Jeffrey4l> nihilifer, the cli will add a `--sectionname-opts`
16:56:47 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l: ah, you're right, sorry...
16:57:21 <SamYaple> you can move section options though, so we can deprecate all the options out of [kolla-build]
16:57:39 <nihilifer> ok, so i'm +1 for deprecating
16:57:43 <Jeffrey4l> http://paste.openstack.org/show/482506/ here is the reaon.
16:57:48 <Jeffrey4l> s/reaon/reason/
16:58:25 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l: yep, that's right
16:58:38 <SamYaple> yea and we can deprecate that stuff out in N
16:58:49 <SamYaple> we just have a waiting game on our hands
16:58:58 <nihilifer> ok, so anyone is against making a deprecated [kolla-build] section and putting the stuff in [DEFAULT] too?
16:59:21 <Jeffrey4l> *deprecating* means it is works in both [DEFAULT] ans [kolla-build]. And should be remove in the future.
16:59:25 <Jeffrey4l> right?
16:59:28 <SamYaple> yes
16:59:29 <nihilifer> yes
16:59:31 <Jeffrey4l> OK.
16:59:38 <Jeffrey4l> I think this is fine.
16:59:47 <SamYaple> agreed
17:00:20 <nihilifer> cool. anything else to discuuss about oslo.config?
17:00:35 <Jeffrey4l> i have no.
17:00:41 <SamYaple> Jeffrey4l: are you taking on the work?
17:01:13 <Jeffrey4l> Jeffrey4l, what do u mean?
17:01:26 <nihilifer> Jeffrey4l: whether you'll continue work on it :)
17:01:27 <inc0> will you do this we just talked about?;)
17:01:38 <SamYaple> I think he is asking himself
17:01:42 <Jeffrey4l> nihilifer, yes.
17:01:52 <inc0> ok, thanks!
17:01:57 <nihilifer> cool
17:01:57 <SamYaple> awesome then I have no futher questions your honor
17:02:05 <Jeffrey4l> I will push a commit soon.
17:02:15 <inc0> so, may I take over?
17:02:21 <nihilifer> next thing i'd like to discuss
17:02:32 <inc0> ok go on nihilifer
17:02:54 <nihilifer> in kolla-mesos we're currently using docker images from here https://hub.docker.com/r/mesoscloud/
17:02:57 <nihilifer> to set up mesos
17:03:10 <nihilifer> these images are outdated in terms of i.e. version of marathon
17:03:26 <nihilifer> i took a look on images from https://hub.docker.com/r/mesosphere/
17:03:39 <nihilifer> but one of them has no open repo available...
17:04:00 <nihilifer> and mesos from mesosphere images doesn't work with docker
17:04:03 <nihilifer> so...
17:04:13 <nihilifer> i'd like to create own dockerfiles
17:04:20 <inc0> I'm ok with that
17:04:23 <SamYaple> +2
17:04:26 <nihilifer> and i'm thinking about putting them into main kolla repo
17:04:29 <inc0> you can deploy them with kolla-ansible ;)
17:04:39 <nihilifer> and to build them with kolla-build
17:04:53 <SamYaple> nihilifer: i am under the personal opinion that all docker files should go in kolla main repo
17:05:11 <nihilifer> SamYaple: i have same opinion
17:05:13 <inc0> I'm ok with having our own mesos dockerfiles
17:05:14 <SamYaple> all deploy tools (kolla-ansible kolla-mesos kolla-kubernetes) should not have dockerfiles
17:05:21 <inc0> we can control version pins and everything
17:05:43 <nihilifer> cool
17:05:59 <inc0> yeah we might want to deploy mesos with ansible, this wouldn't be that bad really
17:06:17 <nihilifer> inc0: yep, we can try it
17:06:41 <inc0> having easy way to deploy everything from scratch would be good for kolla-mesos
17:07:03 <nihilifer> that may help with multinode installation of mesos
17:07:17 <inc0> I thing currently biggest barrier of it is that you can't do something you can with kolla-ansible - deploy everything with one command
17:07:19 <SamYaple> nihilifer: one question here
17:07:40 <SamYaple> will these mesos images still be able to follwo the 1-pid per container, or would they require supervisord?
17:07:49 <nihilifer> 1-pid per container
17:07:54 <SamYaple> ok cool
17:08:16 <elemoine> one image for mesos, one for marathon and one for zookeeper I guess
17:08:39 <nihilifer> elemoine: there will be separate images for mesos-master and mesos-slave
17:08:50 <elemoine> yeah, right
17:09:06 <SamYaple> the zookeeper container may be useful for kolla-ansible as well
17:09:10 <nihilifer> but yeah, zookeeper will go to the sepatate image
17:09:17 <nihilifer> and chronos as well
17:10:02 <nihilifer> ok, so if we're fine with that
17:10:14 <SamYaple> alright weve got 20 minutes left and I have a subject to bring up
17:10:32 * britthouser hopes its mid-cycle dates
17:10:43 * nihilifer hopes too
17:10:52 <inc0> I lost my hopes
17:10:53 <SamYaple> sdake was supposed to handle that a month ago.
17:11:02 <SamYaple> where do you guys want to vote on dates?
17:11:07 <SamYaple> ill set something up today
17:11:15 <inc0> whenisgood?
17:11:23 <SamYaple> is that a website?
17:11:28 <inc0> http://whenisgood.net/
17:12:07 <SamYaple> ok ill look at that, sometime in febuary is all i know, i dont care when
17:12:17 <SamYaple> that wasnt the subject though
17:12:23 <britthouser> =)
17:12:25 <inc0> just put whole month there
17:12:44 <SamYaple> inc0: if you know how to use that site, do you want to do that?
17:12:54 <britthouser> the last I haerd from sdake was last week in Jan?
17:13:07 <SamYaple> britthouser: since im hosting that date is news to me
17:13:19 <nihilifer> britthouser: i hope no, it may collide with fosdem :(
17:13:21 <britthouser> lol....I'll go with what you say. =)
17:13:42 <SamYaple> ok something will go out today with dates, ill see to it personally
17:14:05 <britthouser> thx. =)
17:14:05 <SamYaple> Now what i wanted to talk about was named volumes with docker
17:14:26 <SamYaple> if you use docker 1.9.x and do `docker volume ls` youll see all the volumes on your system
17:14:31 <SamYaple> you can create named voluems as well
17:14:39 <SamYaple> so we can actually get rid of these data containers we have
17:15:11 <SamYaple> this doesn't require anything on the container side of things, so it shouldnt affect mesos
17:15:33 <SamYaple> but it does mean we have to run our own docker module
17:15:42 <britthouser> Is the named volume functionally equivalent to data container?
17:15:57 <inc0> http://whenisgood.net/qrb4db9
17:16:02 <SamYaple> britthouser: the data contaienr previously was the only way to keep track of a volume
17:16:13 <SamYaple> this way you can name a volume and reference it by name
17:17:09 <SamYaple> thanks inc0 looks good
17:17:18 <inc0> I'll pop a ML
17:17:27 <SamYaple> inc0: do you have the address?
17:17:44 <inc0> and for the record, I'm +2 on our own docker module
17:17:52 <inc0> SamYaple, just the poll
17:18:00 <inc0> if you want to pop a mail with full detail
17:18:05 <nihilifer> totally +2 for named volumes and docker module
17:18:06 <inc0> that will be better
17:18:20 <inc0> there is one big problem with our own docker module tho
17:18:28 <SamYaple> ok well the reason i bring it up is because we can't be 1:1 with the docker module upstream which people wanted
17:18:35 <SamYaple> i never did, but it was brought up
17:18:36 <britthouser> Sounds like a better solution.  I was just thinking about backup/upgrade/etc.  Does named volume change any of that?
17:18:46 <SamYaple> britthouser: it helps it alot, yes
17:19:34 <inc0> so problem is
17:19:43 <inc0> according to GPLv3
17:20:02 <inc0> our own docker module cannot be based in any way on upstream docker module
17:20:07 <SamYaple> it is not
17:20:12 <SamYaple> i have written it from scratch
17:20:23 <SamYaple> i havent even used the same arg names
17:20:24 <inc0> to a point that technically if someone saw original one
17:20:55 <inc0> he/she can't write new one as "inspiration" might also be treated as licence breakage
17:21:22 <SamYaple> well we can just throw out all of ansible then. the only documentation for alot of the module code is lookin at other modules
17:21:23 <inc0> and if so, kolla will have to be turn to gplv3, which means removal from openstack namespace
17:21:54 <SamYaple> im not worried about this inc0. it is an original module
17:21:58 <inc0> SamYaple, I'm just saying how that looks like in legal eyes
17:22:27 <SamYaple> then basically all of OSA would be gone. and Kolla to (we have code like this)
17:22:37 <SamYaple> and any other ansible project honeslty
17:22:41 <inc0> all I'm saying, when we do write our own docker module, we need to be careful about that
17:22:54 <SamYaple> even more reason to not try to 1:1 parity the options
17:23:04 <inc0> yeah
17:23:09 <SamYaple> some names overlap like 'name' or 'image' but past that its my own creation
17:23:53 <SamYaple> I am not worried about a licensing problem, but ill make sure to not look at the docker module while writing it ;)
17:24:04 <inc0> yeah;)
17:24:23 <inc0> all is clear Sam?
17:24:28 <inc0> can we move on?
17:24:32 <SamYaple> ok well the docker module is almost done, so you should see a patchset in the next few days
17:24:38 <SamYaple> yup im good
17:24:39 <inc0> cool, thanks
17:24:41 <nihilifer> cool
17:24:42 <inc0> so
17:24:56 <inc0> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/257568/ -> this is first ready play
17:24:59 <inc0> for upgrades
17:25:01 <inc0> this is keystone
17:25:18 <inc0> it's important as it will provide standard and template for other services
17:25:36 <inc0> so once again please we need as much eyes on this one as possible
17:26:15 <inc0> if we merge this one, I'll pop a ML thread "upgrade open season is open"
17:26:35 <inc0> to encourage everyone to take on one of projects and write upgrade playbook on it
17:27:12 <inc0> sounds good to you guys>
17:27:35 <britthouser> Yup.
17:27:48 <akwasnie> yes
17:27:48 <inc0> ok, 3 minutes left, anyone else?
17:27:55 <britthouser> Austin Summit: looks like hotels are ready for booking
17:28:20 <britthouser> that is all
17:28:27 <nihilifer> quick notice
17:28:35 <nihilifer> that i left a comment on k8s blueprint
17:28:38 <inc0> ah, also speaker proposal is open
17:28:45 <nihilifer> i found a way to run bootstrap tasks in k8s
17:28:51 <inc0> cool!
17:28:54 <nihilifer> so no need of chronos or involving ansible on that
17:29:04 <inc0> thanks
17:29:12 <nihilifer> if Ryan will be ready, i'll be +2 for k8s
17:29:27 <inc0> if you want to speak about kolla, let's get more presence on this summit
17:29:44 <britthouser> I think Mesos would make a good topic
17:29:53 <inc0> yeah, I'll try upgrades
17:30:01 <britthouser> that too!
17:30:12 <inc0> ok guys, we ran out of time
17:30:15 <inc0> thanks everyone
17:30:18 <britthouser> cya!
17:30:18 <nihilifer> thx
17:30:19 <inc0> #endmeeting kolla