16:01:02 <inc0> #startmeeting kolla
16:01:02 <zhubingbing> hey
16:01:04 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jan 25 16:01:02 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:01:09 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'kolla'
16:01:18 <inc0> #topic w00t for kolla
16:01:21 <trinaths> Hi
16:01:23 <inc0> w00t people
16:01:24 <inc0> ;)
16:01:25 <duonghq> o/
16:01:28 <zhubingbing> o/
16:01:28 <gema> o/
16:01:30 <zhubingbing> o/
16:01:30 <SridharP1> Hai
16:01:31 <duonghq> oops
16:01:31 <Jeffrey4l_> o/
16:01:33 <trinaths> hi
16:01:40 <pbourke> w00t
16:01:41 <srwilkers> o/
16:01:42 <portdirect> good afternoon
16:01:43 <mandre> o/
16:01:51 * portdirect w00t
16:01:54 <zhubingbing> good afternoon
16:02:10 <srwilkers> :is all out of woots to give
16:02:29 <inc0> and it's only 8am? your day is looking bright srwilkers
16:02:43 <egonzalez> woot o/
16:02:58 <krtaylor> o/
16:03:08 <trinaths> o/
16:03:15 <SridharP1> o/
16:03:58 <inc0> #topic agenda
16:04:06 <inc0> * Roll-call
16:04:06 <inc0> * Announcements
16:04:06 <inc0> * Documentation (pbourke)
16:04:06 <inc0> * Ocata kolla deliverable (inc0}
16:04:06 <inc0> * Ocata kolla-ansible deliverable (inc0)
16:04:07 <inc0> * kolla-kubernetes 0.5.0 (sdake) timebox [10 minutes]
16:04:09 <inc0> * deprecation of Debian images (berendt)
16:04:11 <inc0> * Debian images for ARM architecture (gema, berendt)
16:04:13 <inc0> * Finalize Brainstorming of PTG topics (we have 2 days of PTG space) timebox [10 minutes]
16:04:15 <inc0> * Open Discussion
16:04:18 <inc0> #topic announcements
16:04:35 <inc0> We came into agreement how to add new deliverables
16:05:04 <inc0> it will be change to this file https://review.openstack.org/#/c/424784/
16:05:22 <inc0> and merge as usual with caveat of PTL +2 present
16:05:44 <inc0> any community announcements?
16:06:12 <inc0> guess not:) let's get to business
16:06:16 <inc0> #topic Documentation
16:06:19 <inc0> pbourke, you're up
16:06:41 <pbourke> ok, simple enough really
16:06:41 <qwang> o/
16:06:42 <berendt> o/
16:07:03 <pbourke> I had a short note on the ML but the gist is, I think some people are working in the background on revamping the kolla docs
16:07:14 <pbourke> I think a lot of people have grand visions of what needs to happen
16:07:28 <pbourke> till then though, Id like to suggest we take some immeidate steps to remove duplication
16:08:00 <berendt> do we have a doc liason for the docs team?
16:08:03 <pbourke> by that I mean strip down the kolla section to just building info and info related to the image themselves, along with hyperlinks to kolla deliverables that can deploy the images
16:08:21 <mliima> \o
16:08:31 <pbourke> if people like this idea I can submit a change before end of the week
16:08:40 <berendt> pbourke: i like it :)
16:08:50 <mandre> pbourke: +1
16:09:05 <inc0> berendt, officialy no, but we have people talking to them
16:09:07 <zhubingbing> i have  a problem, the document we have to refer to what to do
16:09:07 <berendt> i think we should think about a central starting page
16:09:22 <inc0> and some guide which tool to choose
16:09:30 <zhubingbing> yes
16:09:40 <duonghq> pbourke, +1 but Kolla need including some common info too
16:09:48 <pbourke> sounds like no major concerns with the above so that's it from me :)
16:09:48 <zhubingbing> wo should need some guide and tools
16:10:09 <duonghq> pbourke, how about QSG?
16:10:18 <berendt> generic information in kolla docs?
16:10:36 <duonghq> berendt, sure
16:10:38 <berendt> duonghq: quick start guide is related to ansible/salt/k8s
16:10:47 <berendt> every deliverable needs a qsq
16:11:18 <trinaths> +1 to qsg
16:11:25 <Jeffrey4l_> im agree with pbourke.
16:11:26 <duonghq> so we need one landing page in Kolla and point to deliverables qsg?
16:11:55 <Jeffrey4l_> kolla QSQ just solve image build. kolla-ansible QSQ just explain how to deploy images.
16:11:57 <berendt> duonghq: i think this is the best way
16:12:12 <duonghq> agreed with berendt
16:12:17 <pbourke> again, Id rather not go into all the various improvements needed. My main goal is just to remove the current duplication
16:12:21 <berendt> Jeffrey4l_: +1
16:12:46 <duonghq> for QSG, we should use images from docker hub (IMO)
16:12:48 <berendt> pbourke: then i think the best is to start with the split of the qsg and to remove common content from kolla-ansible
16:12:50 <zhubingbing> +1 pbourke
16:13:02 <berendt> duonghq: +1 but we also need a qsg how to build images
16:13:20 <portdirect> i agree with pbourke the first step is seeing what we have, kolla-k8s in particular has a lot of very out of date docs, that need removed or reworked before we promote them
16:13:23 <inc0> well we do have good doc on it
16:13:28 <inc0> just not called qsg
16:13:31 <duonghq> berendt,  not really qsg
16:13:33 <SridharP1> duonghq: +1 about building images
16:13:41 <inc0> we can link to it from kolla-ansible qsg
16:13:43 <berendt> yes, maybe qsg is the wrong wording for it
16:14:03 <inc0> also, qsg itself can ask people to use dockerhub images
16:14:07 <inc0> to make stuff even easier
16:14:10 <duonghq> berendt, something like Basic building instruction (w/ some advanced instructions...)
16:14:24 <Jeffrey4l_> we need qsg, event though current "qsg" is too complicate.
16:14:39 <berendt> does it makes sense the pbourke prepares a list for the next meeting?
16:14:40 <trinaths> berendt: this doc will be the starting point. right ?
16:14:41 <duonghq> yeah, iirc, sdake is working on that
16:14:42 <krtaylor> deploy vs building qsg - have a switch at the starting page
16:14:48 <berendt> trinaths: yes
16:15:23 <trinaths> berendt: then let it be qsg. it gives a good meaning too
16:16:04 <Jeffrey4l_> i think we need a outline which explain how the doc will looks like in the future in overview. pbourke
16:16:19 <pbourke> honestly Id rather not commit to that
16:16:21 <pbourke> at least right now
16:16:35 <zhubingbing> +1 Jeffrey4l
16:16:37 <inc0> yeah we have release
16:16:44 <pbourke> to reiterate, all I want to achieve is that when you go to http://docs.openstack.org/developer/kolla-ansible/ vs http://docs.openstack.org/developer/kolla/ they actually look different
16:16:52 <berendt> include it in the ptg?
16:17:00 <pbourke> right now we have patches going into both, it makes no sense
16:17:16 <trinaths> Jeffrey4l_: oultine mean future plans?
16:17:19 <pbourke> it should have happened long ago
16:17:23 <berendt> let's freeze kolla-ansible/docs until we start working on it
16:17:52 <Jeffrey4l_> trinaths, yep. bird's eye.
16:17:52 <duonghq> sorry guys but the improved docs stuff should go in Ocata or Pike?
16:18:16 <zioproto> hello
16:18:18 <berendt> i think in pike
16:18:23 <zioproto> meeting started ?
16:18:27 <berendt> zioproto: yes
16:18:35 <inc0> ok, lets move on
16:18:37 <trinaths> Jeffrey4l_: i believe it to have a roadmap line. and doc t more concentrate on bringing up the environment
16:18:43 <zhubingbing> zioproto: yes
16:18:46 <duonghq> so PTG would be better place for further discussion?
16:19:00 <inc0> (I'm going to cannibalize kolla-k8s from this meeting, sorry, we're in release week(
16:19:08 <inc0> #topic ocata-3
16:19:12 <berendt> duonghq: i think so
16:19:16 <inc0> https://launchpad.net/kolla-ansible/+milestone/ocata-3
16:19:45 <inc0> https://launchpad.net/kolla/+milestone/ocata-3
16:20:17 <inc0> the list is long and full of not implemented
16:20:39 <Jeffrey4l_> inc0, which day we have to release m3?
16:20:43 <inc0> Jeffrey4l_, we'll tag ocata-3 at 27th right?
16:20:47 <inc0> this week
16:20:53 <inc0> 27th is last day
16:21:02 <Jeffrey4l_> yep. 27th is the last day.
16:21:36 <inc0> which means I'll be bumping blueprints to Pike
16:21:43 <inc0> which aren't finished by then
16:21:46 <trinaths> and there is not assignee and the there is good progress.
16:23:17 <inc0> zhubingbing, whats the status of fluentd?
16:23:20 <inc0> is it finished?
16:23:26 <Jeffrey4l_> inc0 yep.
16:23:28 <zhubingbing> yes
16:24:01 <inc0> anyone knows anything about keystone upgrade?
16:24:03 <berendt> does it include an upgrade from heka to fluentd?
16:24:29 <zhubingbing> keka replaced fluentd's work has been completed
16:24:30 <Jeffrey4l_> berendt, yep. heka will be removed during upgrade from newton to ocata
16:24:44 <inc0> changed to implemented
16:24:46 <inc0> good job!
16:24:53 <berendt> Jeffrey4l_: good :)
16:25:01 <inc0> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/+spec/ks-rolling-upgrade-role <- this needs to happen
16:25:33 <duonghq> sp___, are you there?
16:25:33 <Jeffrey4l_> this should be moved to P cycle ;(
16:26:06 <inc0> without this KS might break upgrade, and have right to do so
16:26:46 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: will that also handel change such as enableing fernet tokens correctly on upgrade?
16:26:52 <Jeffrey4l_> seems it is not started. i am afraid this can not be done before release.
16:27:14 <Jeffrey4l_> sean-k-mooney, i do not think so
16:27:16 <duonghq> Jeffrey4l_, it need some rework due to recent ansible refactoring
16:27:16 <inc0> sean-k-mooney, negative, this will just make sure we'll handle db changes correctly
16:27:39 <egonzalez> yup, is under a bug_id instead of the bp https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388544/
16:27:41 <inc0> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/405215/2 there is some code for it
16:28:07 <inc0> duonghq, thoughts? you wrote most of the code
16:28:23 <inc0> think you can get it done?
16:29:26 <zhubingbing> i can  do  this work ；）if duonghq have free time；）
16:29:26 <duonghq> duonghq, if tomorrow I can get it done than it can be done, or not, :(
16:29:38 <inc0> ok, try it
16:29:43 <duonghq> roger
16:29:58 <inc0> let me know if you need help, I can take on it too
16:30:26 <inc0> ok next one https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/+spec/api-interface-bind-address-override
16:30:28 <egonzalez> me too
16:30:32 <inc0> I think it's no longer relevant
16:30:57 <Jeffrey4l_> k8s do not reply on this?
16:31:18 <Jeffrey4l_> depends on*
16:31:39 <Jeffrey4l_> inc0, ^
16:31:50 <inc0> well no movement in this change and k8s seems to handle itself
16:31:53 <inc0> kfox1111, comments?
16:32:42 <Jeffrey4l_> whether k8s depends on orchestration_engine variable?  kfox1111 inc0
16:33:05 <portdirect> inc0 that was well before my time - but looks like it was working on the assumpption of running in the hosts network namespace?
16:33:42 <inc0> yeah, and we're not really using host networking everywhere right?
16:33:47 <inc0> not for apis anyhow
16:34:03 <portdirect> we are using it as little as possible
16:34:14 <inc0> Jeffrey4l_, yeah this was really mitaka
16:34:21 <inc0> I'm going to close it for now
16:34:23 <portdirect> so though nice to have I dont think its causing any issues at present
16:34:41 <inc0> portdirect, would you be kind enough and double check? we can always reopen
16:35:01 <portdirect> yeah i'll ask kfox and co, np
16:35:37 <inc0> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/+spec/apply-service-upgrade-procedure
16:35:49 <inc0> this is related to keystone
16:35:51 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: is k8s using the docker proxy for apis if so that could be a scaleing problem though i understand why you might want to avoid net=host
16:36:13 <inc0> sean-k-mooney, k8s doesn't really uses docker proxy afaik
16:36:22 <inc0> it has it's own network overlay
16:37:08 <duonghq> it have some network option, the recommend is flannel
16:37:33 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: ack, it should be ok then.
16:37:43 <kfox1111> o/
16:37:50 <inc0> but back to topic, duonghq I assume someone will have to take on neutron too right?
16:38:19 <inc0> or I see you're working on this change
16:38:27 <kfox1111> we support both external and host ports currently in kolla-kubernetes.
16:38:31 <inc0> so let's do this, you focus on neutron
16:38:33 <duonghq> about the apply-service-upgrade-procedure, the neutron's ansible potion run into same problem as ks: need to be migrated to new ansible structure
16:38:38 <inc0> and me and egonzalez will take keystone ok?
16:38:44 <kfox1111> since ingress is starting to stabalize, we may support that at some point too.
16:38:48 <duonghq> inc0, nice,
16:38:53 <inc0> thanks
16:39:25 <inc0> just get neutron done:) egonzalez I'll start today and by your morning you should have something to work on:)
16:39:33 <inc0> feel free to coauthor patch
16:39:44 <duonghq> thank inc0 and egonzalez
16:39:58 <egonzalez> inc0: roger, i'll check what you got at the morning
16:40:38 <inc0> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/+spec/support-python-35 this is doen?
16:41:16 <duonghq> inc0, it should be depend on code coverage improvement bp
16:41:59 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: Python 3.5 support in some openstack projects is still experimental. i assume this is for the kolla module rather then the containers?
16:42:10 <duonghq> sean-k-mooney, yup
16:42:15 <sean-k-mooney> duonghq: cool
16:42:18 <berendt> sean-k-mooney: yes, should be for kolla itself
16:42:29 <inc0> yeah, I'll bump it to pike
16:42:33 <inc0> and all the rest in fact
16:42:35 <duonghq> for all Python code, indeed
16:42:40 <inc0> since these are highs/essentials
16:42:55 <inc0> #link https://launchpad.net/kolla-ansible/+milestone/ocata-3
16:43:23 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: would you like me to pre-emptively bump dpdk,odl and hugepage configuration to pike? i doubt they will be merged by the 27th and they are also not currently targeted to ocata-3
16:43:27 <duonghq> inc0, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/kolla/+spec/coverage-increment-for-kolla -> here, last bp should depend on this
16:43:35 <inc0> sean-k-mooney, yes, please
16:43:40 <berendt> sean-k-mooney: hugepage yes
16:43:52 <berendt> sean-k-mooney: i do not have time to work on it at the moment and prio is low
16:44:02 <inc0> duonghq, then i'll keep this one
16:44:08 <inc0> since it might be merged
16:44:14 <inc0> but please, focus on upgrades
16:44:32 <duonghq> sure
16:44:45 <sean-k-mooney> berendt: i have some patches for it up for bootstrap servers playbook.
16:44:48 <inc0> I'll bump all meds/lows
16:45:21 <inc0> kolla-ansible doesn't look bad
16:45:50 <inc0> ok, let's move on
16:46:08 <inc0> #topic Debian deprecation
16:46:12 <duonghq> forgot, the apply service upgrade should be done for all service that have rolling upgrade procedure, not just ks and neutron, but ks and neutron have most mature procedure, so in general, part of the bp should be done on Ocata, other in Pike or next...
16:46:15 <berendt> gema: around?
16:46:17 <inc0> berendt, gema we wanted to discuss
16:46:18 <gema> yep
16:46:23 <berendt> your turn
16:46:38 <inc0> gema, question, do you *need* debian containers for ARM?
16:46:46 <inc0> or ubuntu would work?
16:46:53 <gema> inc0: our current release is based on Debian and CentOS
16:47:04 <gema> so we were planning to produce containers first for debian then for centos
16:47:04 <inc0> ok, so CentOS would work?
16:47:18 <gema> inc0: yes, but we prefer debian
16:47:29 <inc0> issue is, nobody else prefers debian;)
16:47:30 <gema> since it is a purely community driven project
16:47:39 <gema> inc0: all our members are keen on it
16:47:45 <gema> most :D
16:47:55 <berendt> gema: are you willing to working on the debian images?
16:48:00 <inc0> if you volunteer to be maintainers of it in kolla, we can discuss keeping it
16:48:00 <gema> berendt: yes
16:48:03 <Jeffrey4l_> and please add job gate for debian ;)
16:48:12 <inc0> yeah, gate job for debian is first step
16:48:20 <inc0> we'll be happy to help you do it
16:48:22 <berendt> first step is making the debian images working again
16:48:28 <gema> we will be working on debian ARM64, I am not sure how much work is involved in also making them work on x86_64
16:48:33 <berendt> next step gates for debian
16:48:34 <gema> but we don't have hardware to test that
16:48:56 <berendt> arm64 is the next topic, i think we should discuss the addition of a new platform independent of the debian deprecation
16:48:58 <inc0> gema, it will have to work on both arm and x86 as gates are all x86
16:49:13 <sean-k-mooney> gema i would not expect there to be much if any difference between x86_64 and armv8 in this context
16:49:15 <Jeffrey4l_> i prefer to add a non-voting debian gate, then fix all issue to make it green.
16:49:22 <gema> inc0: we will be adding a 3rd party CI for ARM64
16:49:23 <berendt> Jeffrey4l_: +1
16:49:31 <gema> Jeffrey4l_: agreed
16:49:40 <inc0> gema, fine, but we also want proper openstack CI
16:49:45 <Jeffrey4l_> gema, re 3rd ci , cool.
16:49:49 <gema> berendt, inc0: plus I can only commit resources to do this for pike
16:49:49 <inc0> and yeah, I don't expect debian to be voting anytime soon
16:50:02 <inc0> ocata is done anyway
16:50:03 <gema> we'll be ramping up in the meantime
16:50:09 <gema> ok, good
16:50:43 <berendt> when adding debian for arm64, can the current images be used or do you have to add it as a new distro?
16:50:46 <inc0> so order of business would be:
16:50:50 <kfox1111> oh. that reminds me. are we in feature freeze yet?
16:50:52 <gema> berendt: I don't know
16:50:53 <berendt> at the moment the debian images are nearly the same like ubuntu
16:50:53 <inc0> 1. make sure debian works at all
16:50:58 <sean-k-mooney> berendt: it would have to be a new distro
16:50:59 <inc0> kfox1111, k8s is not
16:51:07 <inc0> ansible and kolla yeah
16:51:11 <kfox1111> no, kollla. I'd still like to see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/422950/ go in.
16:51:14 <sean-k-mooney> berendt: the binaries in the current image would not work on arm
16:51:19 <berendt> when it would to be a new distro we can deprecate current debian images and add debian arm64 as new images
16:51:24 <gema> sean-k-mooney: corrent
16:51:26 <kfox1111> its an additional set of containers, so shoudl be very low risk.
16:51:26 <gema> correct
16:51:27 <inc0> kfox1111, I'll review it in a moment
16:51:31 <kfox1111> inc0: thx.
16:51:35 <inc0> yeah, I'm not concerned
16:52:01 <inc0> yeah berendt that's good point
16:52:06 <inc0> we can have distro debian-arm
16:52:11 <inc0> and deprecate x86
16:52:15 <berendt> i think the best way is to deprecate current debian images in kolla, to not deprecate debian support in kolla-ansible
16:52:19 <sean-k-mooney> i would actully thik it would be best to add an arch flag not a distro
16:52:31 <berendt> this way gema can re-add working debian arm64 images
16:52:36 <berendt> with a spec
16:52:36 <kfox1111> not sure level of effort is that much different for arm vs arm+x86.
16:52:41 <kfox1111> the packages should all be the same.
16:52:44 <portdirect> inc0: do you have contact with stackenetes at all? they use kolla debian
16:52:59 <kfox1111> Id expect most of the work to be arm-kvm related really.
16:53:08 <inc0> I know, but they don't work of it at all any more
16:53:30 <berendt> gema: does this work for you? deprecation of debian images this cycle?
16:53:40 <berendt> this way we are able to remove them next cycle
16:53:41 <duonghq> I like idea treating debian-arm is pseudo distro
16:53:48 <gema> berendt: yes, as long as we are allowed to work on the ARM64 ones going forward, that works
16:54:00 <berendt> gema: yes of course
16:54:01 <gema> we will likely also work on centos-arm
16:54:08 <gema> but I see that as a future thing
16:54:12 <inc0> let's make it distros
16:54:23 <berendt> but it makes no sense to keep the x86 images when nobody works on them and you are only willing to work on arm
16:54:24 <gema> since there will be 3 of us only working on this part time
16:54:25 <inc0> we don't need to change build for these two
16:54:37 <egonzalez> there is a PS to add powerservers support, already are changing to support different archs in kolla build IIRC
16:55:05 <berendt> do we need an other vote when we change the scope of the deprecation?
16:55:09 <inc0> gema, will we see you in Atlanta?
16:55:14 <sean-k-mooney> i think long run having an arch flag would be better then distos per arch
16:55:15 <kfox1111> just to throw the question out there,
16:55:25 <gema> inc0: yes, I will try to make time from the interop meetings to come visit you guys
16:55:28 <berendt> we will keep debian in kolla-ansible, we will deprecate current debian images
16:55:30 <kfox1111> do we beleive in container space, arches are as much work as seperate distros?
16:55:34 <inc0> berendt, let's discuss it on PTG
16:55:43 <kfox1111> I really don't think they are.
16:55:48 <berendt> ptg is too late for a deprecation?
16:55:53 <Jeffrey4l_> egonzalez, power support https://review.openstack.org/423239
16:55:59 <gema> kfox1111: I am not sure of the implications of either
16:55:59 <inc0> kfox1111, if you look at our debian
16:56:08 <inc0> it's 90% of ubuntu with few exceptions
16:56:11 <egonzalez> Jeffrey4l_: thanks
16:56:16 <sean-k-mooney> kfox1111: they should be minimal change unless except when building cross arch images e.g. arm images on windows
16:56:22 <kfox1111> inc0: ah. so the debian's not debian.
16:56:37 <kfox1111> inc0: thats still a seperate issue of, do we support a debian with x86/arm, or just arm.
16:56:38 <inc0> well names of packages are mostly the same anyway
16:57:04 <inc0> we narrowed it down from "nobody cares for debian" to "nobody cares for debian on x86"
16:57:06 <kfox1111> I am pretty sure the instructions for building a debian based arm container once multiarch is in kolla's build scripts, will be essentially the same as for x86.
16:57:07 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: yes currently we dont use the full name
16:57:15 <kfox1111> I think that basically comes for free.
16:57:24 <sean-k-mooney> inc0: we excluded the arch and that is determined by apt/yum
16:57:29 <gema> kfox1111: if that is the case, we will add it
16:57:33 <kfox1111> I guess we can cross that bridge when we get to it though.
16:57:38 <kfox1111> yeah.
16:57:39 <berendt> 3 minutes left.. how to proceed?
16:57:39 <gema> as long as someone can help validating
16:57:56 <inc0> berendt, let's hold on with deprecation since gema is volunteering
16:58:19 <Jeffrey4l_> inc0, +1
16:58:26 <kfox1111> inc0: +1
16:58:31 <egonzalez> yep +1
16:58:41 <berendt> inc0: ok i will close the vote and send the decision to the list
16:58:48 <inc0> and extend debian to pike, then gema can take on fixing it:)
16:58:54 <Jeffrey4l_> if we support arm, it will be easy to support x86/power
16:58:54 <gema> +1!
16:58:58 <inc0> we will need gates tho, I'm adamant about it
16:59:03 <inc0> but we'll help
16:59:14 <inc0> ok, we ran out of time
16:59:20 <inc0> thank you all for coming!
16:59:26 <gema> thank you!
16:59:26 <inc0> #endmeeting kolla