15:59:46 <inc0> #startmeeting kolla
15:59:47 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jul 26 15:59:46 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:59:49 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:59:51 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'kolla'
15:59:58 <inc0> #topic w00t for Kolla
16:00:03 <spsurya_> w00t
16:00:08 <egonzalez> w00t o/
16:00:12 <zhubingbing> w00t
16:00:14 <inc0> how's everyone?
16:00:15 <zhubingbing> o/
16:00:17 <duonghq> woot o/
16:00:24 <duonghq> evening
16:00:28 <jascott1> w00t
16:00:45 <rwellum> woot
16:01:08 <coolsvap> o/
16:01:33 <Jeffrey4l> o/
16:02:25 <britthouser> 0/
16:02:27 <inc0> let's give few more minutes
16:02:27 <duonghq> hi britthouser
16:02:36 <britthouser> Hey duonghq !
16:04:14 <sdake> o/
16:04:24 <inc0> let's move to announcements
16:04:29 <inc0> #topic announcements
16:04:31 <sbezverk> o/
16:04:42 <inc0> This week is P-3 release week
16:04:54 <inc0> since we're tailing, we have 2 more weeks before P-3
16:05:13 <inc0> that being said, projects will get into feature freeze so we should start heavy upgrade testing
16:05:32 <vhosakot> o/ (sorry I'm late)
16:05:38 <duonghq> hi Vikram
16:05:43 <vhosakot> hi dosaboy
16:05:47 <inc0> so please, everyone, just run at least one upgrade O->P in scenario of your choice
16:05:48 <vhosakot> hi duonghq
16:05:54 <vhosakot> sorry duonghq  typo
16:06:00 <spsurya_> inc0: roger
16:06:19 <inc0> any community announcements?
16:06:31 <Jeffrey4l> i have one.
16:06:33 <britthouser> voting has opened up
16:06:34 <inc0> go ahead
16:06:44 <inc0> for sessions britthouser? right
16:06:49 <Jeffrey4l> openstack days china is hold in recently two days.
16:07:16 <inc0> how did kolla keynote go?:)
16:07:23 <Jeffrey4l> there is a keystone about kolla upgrade and power failure recovery keystone.
16:07:37 <Jeffrey4l> it is successful ;)
16:07:42 <inc0> great!
16:07:54 <sdake> Jeffrey4l do you mean keynote presentation?
16:08:03 <britthouser> awesome news Jeffrey4l !
16:08:04 <Jeffrey4l> sdake, yep.
16:08:07 <sdake> cool
16:08:08 <egonzalez> yay!
16:08:17 <inc0> sdake: upgrade on stage during keynote
16:08:24 <sdake> may I ask who presented it?
16:09:00 <Jeffrey4l> check the pic http://imgur.com/a/TQOKx
16:09:25 <inc0> lol
16:09:38 <Jeffrey4l> sdake, intel guys. inc0 should know the details.
16:09:47 <sdake> Jeffrey4l tx
16:09:54 <inc0> not that much, I learned about this keynote by accident;)
16:10:00 <inc0> but whatever, I'm glad it went well
16:10:29 <Jeffrey4l> that's all from me.
16:10:37 <inc0> anyone else?
16:11:33 <Jeffrey4l> ( just post another pic http://imgur.com/a/22UTW )
16:12:39 <inc0> ok, let's move on to agenda
16:12:44 <inc0> #topic PTG planning
16:12:57 <inc0> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-queens-ptg-planning
16:13:10 <inc0> so here's how I'd like to do it, another experiment:)
16:13:26 <inc0> let's start by iterating over goals we want to achieve during Q
16:13:33 <inc0> and then break this down to sessions
16:13:48 <inc0> I don't expect us to finalize it today, we have time till PTG itself really
16:14:57 <spsurya_> inc0: will we need 1 full day for kk8s ?
16:15:40 <inc0> that depends on goals
16:16:17 <inc0> We'll need time for TripleO discussions, but I'd love to have at least scope of cooperation decided beforehand
16:16:36 <inc0> EmilienM: ^ let's discuss about that over next month please
16:17:03 <inc0> let's figure out what we want to do together and use PTG for technical planning rather than discussions "what to share what to not" ok?
16:20:10 <inc0> Jeffrey4l: did you get any feedback about Kolla from OpenStack days?
16:20:52 <Jeffrey4l> lots of operator are using it.
16:21:21 <inc0> that's great to hear, I'd be interested to know what are painpoints and problems they have
16:21:25 <inc0> so we can fix it
16:22:23 <Jeffrey4l> i heard nothing about the painpoints. i guess kolla is easy to use now. the key point is that openstack is still very complicated ;)
16:22:39 <inc0> yeah not much we can do about that
16:24:08 <spsurya_> sdake: may i add one in kk8s section ?
16:24:14 <sdake> Jeffrey4l constant pain point is documentaiton
16:24:26 <sdake> Jeffrey4l that is kolla's greatest weakness
16:24:33 <sdake> spsurya_ please do - I feel all alone typing :)
16:24:45 <Jeffrey4l> ah, yep.
16:26:33 <spsurya_> rwellum: FYI just added in eatherpad
16:26:36 <spsurya_> please check
16:27:35 <rwellum> lgtm spsurya_ it's something I am working on right now too
16:27:52 <spsurya_> rwellum: great!! thanks
16:28:11 <spsurya_> i know that is why i added
16:28:15 <spsurya_> :)
16:28:29 <inc0> it seems we have much more to talk about kolla-k8s than kolla-ansible
16:28:33 <inc0> is kolla-ansible done?;)
16:29:31 <spsurya_> inc0: lol, i was about to ask same ques to you ;)
16:29:39 <spsurya_> need more lines there
16:29:42 <spsurya_> i guess
16:31:01 <inc0> no, we don't:) I don't want to push discussion just for the sake of it
16:31:14 <inc0> if we need 2 days of kolla-k8s and 1 day for rest is enough, that's good
16:34:57 <duonghq> inc0, can I have some mins at end of the meeting for my 2 topics?
16:35:02 <inc0> sure
16:35:08 <inc0> let's cut this off at :40
16:35:20 <duonghq> thanks
16:35:21 <inc0> and do couple more planning sessions over next week
16:35:24 <inc0> s
16:35:58 <duonghq> nice
16:37:49 <inc0> ok, let's leave it for few days
16:38:06 <inc0> everyone keep this etherpad around, feel free to add to it over time
16:38:21 <inc0> we'll review it every week until PTG
16:39:01 <inc0> Our goal is to have, by the time of PTG, set list of goals and sessions
16:39:07 <spsurya_> rwellum: we will discuss about distributed ceph part
16:39:26 <rwellum> spsurya_: +1
16:39:40 <inc0> #topic Ansible license
16:39:44 <inc0> duonghq: go ahead
16:39:51 <duonghq> thank inc0
16:40:03 <duonghq> as we discussed couple weeks ago
16:40:36 <duonghq> I found that we have action_plugins inherit ansible class exactly same way as I use in strategy plugins
16:40:43 <duonghq> so can you use it?
16:41:22 <inc0> duonghq: so thing about Ansible is that part of it is GPLv3 and another part is not
16:41:32 <Jeffrey4l> shouldn't inherit be OK.
16:41:46 <duonghq> yes, and the part used in action_plugins is GPLv3
16:41:52 <inc0> uhh
16:42:16 <sdake> so here is my take
16:42:21 <sdake> none of us (that I know of)
16:42:23 <sdake> are attorneys
16:42:31 <jascott1> i am! no wait...
16:42:31 <sdake> attorneys train for years and years
16:42:38 <britthouser> LOL
16:42:38 <sdake> just like engineers train for years and years
16:42:45 <vhosakot> I thought inheriting native Ansible classes is not a violation of the license.
16:42:47 <sdake> it takes a long ass time to be a good software engineer
16:43:03 <duonghq> #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/action/__init__.py
16:43:19 <sdake> these sorts of questions are best handled by the experts in the field - that is the people with legal certification
16:44:06 <jascott1> is there an OS attorney we can bounce off of?
16:44:16 <rwellum> What about this: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/licensing.html
16:44:17 <sdake> duonghq i have heard time and time again - every company has a different interpretation o the GPLv3
16:44:22 <rwellum> Seems pretty clear to me.
16:44:33 <vhosakot> duonghq: so, "class ActionBase" in https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/action/__init__.py#L52 is GPLv3 per inheritance?
16:44:33 <sdake> so bouncing off an OS lawyer would just provide an OS reference point
16:44:37 <rwellum> "Licenses considered incompatible with this requirement include GPLv2, GPLv3, and AGPL."
16:44:47 <Jeffrey4l> openstack has this http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss
16:44:53 <duonghq> vhosakot, yes, if I understand correctly
16:45:01 <Jeffrey4l> archived mail list: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/legal-discuss/
16:45:01 <sdake> ultimately whoever ships kolla is responsible for ensuring they are in complaince with the laws in their country/state/regoin/etc
16:45:09 <vhosakot> duonghq: yeah, that part is tricky :)
16:45:33 <duonghq> vhosakot, yes, and somebody did the trick with action_plugins
16:45:40 <duonghq> so I think we can repeat it again
16:46:00 <Jeffrey4l> so, talk with them will be a better solution.
16:46:01 <vhosakot> I won't be surprised there is annother big-tent project (using custom Ansible libs) that does the same thing... don't think kolla is the only proj doing custom Ansible libs.
16:46:02 <sdake> rwellum sadly that is a reductive statement - the reality is far more complex then my non-lawyer brain can handle
16:46:16 <britthouser> Do we know that they "did the trick" or just slipped it by and hasn't been noticed until now?
16:46:29 <rwellum> sdake: just quoting the openstack license page I linked above
16:46:48 <sdake> rwellum right - what I mean there is that page is not worth tthe bits its written on :)
16:47:18 <rwellum> sdake: ack
16:47:38 <vhosakot> well, AFAIK GPLv3 has nice rules around distribution, not so much about inheritance :)
16:47:43 <rwellum> Well I used that page to get permission from my company to commit upstream so now I am worried...
16:48:34 <vhosakot> britthouser: well, looks like we haven't noticed it until now.  duonghq how did you notice it in the first place? :)
16:48:48 <sdake> rwellum we dont use any of the stuff duonghq is talking about in kolla-kubernetes
16:48:52 * inc0 hates gplv3
16:48:55 <vhosakot> tox -e check_ansible_violations ?
16:49:07 <egonzalez> inc0, isnt this same case? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106761.html
16:49:19 <inc0> sdake: that's a negative. We use merge configs there
16:49:30 <inc0> egonzalez: kinda is
16:49:41 <inc0> never got concrete response
16:49:44 <vhosakot> this too I think - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095489.html
16:49:50 <vhosakot> for all projects
16:50:19 <vhosakot> well, inheritance is different than "reuse" ;)
16:50:41 <duonghq> that is the point, imo
16:50:56 <vhosakot> duonghq: how did you find about it in the first place? :)
16:50:59 <inc0> derivitive is hey word there
16:51:06 <sdake> fellas - your guys are not attorneys
16:51:10 <vhosakot> right
16:51:12 <sdake> yet your playing oones on irc :)
16:51:18 <vhosakot> lol
16:51:21 <inc0> right, we have no idea;)
16:51:29 <inc0> and nobody seems to have
16:51:30 <sdake> if you really want to ask the question, ask someone that can answer it
16:51:32 <duonghq> vhosakot, sorry but I don't get your idea
16:51:41 <vhosakot> we have no suits and do not charge high fee ;)
16:51:56 <britthouser> OpenStack has a legal affairs committee
16:52:19 <inc0> duonghq: mind sending mail to openstack-legal?
16:52:22 <britthouser> Nissa Strottman is the chair
16:52:33 <vhosakot> duonghq: I meant, how/where did you learn that inheriting a native class in our custom action_plugin is a violation?
16:52:45 <sdake> vhosakot he doesn't know if it i
16:52:46 <sdake> s
16:52:47 <inc0> vhosakot: I made this concern
16:52:49 <sdake> vhosakot that is his question
16:52:58 <vhosakot> ah got it.. cool
16:53:01 <duonghq> vhosakot,  I just look around in our project,
16:53:07 <sdake> and nobody has provided a conrete answer - because we are not attorneys
16:53:15 <duonghq> finding something same as my plugin
16:53:22 <britthouser> legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org
16:53:40 <duonghq> inc0, sure, I'll try
16:54:06 <duonghq> so, is there any chance the feature is merged in this cycle?
16:54:37 <sdake> inc0 i need a couple minutes to conclude plz
16:54:50 <inc0> duonghq: we still have 2 weeks, let's try
16:55:03 <inc0> duonghq: mind if I give this time to sdake?
16:55:06 <duonghq> inc0, thanks, so the 1st thing I should do is ask legal team?
16:55:11 <inc0> yeah
16:55:51 <duonghq> inc0, only one short sentences
16:56:09 <inc0> sure, don't wait for me;)
16:56:13 <duonghq> I hope that this serie https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398682/ can be merged so the ansible-become bp is completed in this cycle
16:56:21 <duonghq> that's all from me
16:56:25 <inc0> sdake:
16:56:51 <sdake> i should have mentioned this in the announcements
16:56:59 <sdake> but slipped my mind
16:57:24 <sdake> there are analytics for all kolla deliverables
16:57:32 <sdake> that show download count
16:57:52 <sdake> I am working on a way to provide these generally to other folks that want them
16:58:17 <sdake> in june for exaple iirc there were approximately 5,000 downloads
16:58:39 <inc0> that's a good number
16:58:57 <inc0> especially if you add github and other sources of download
16:59:20 <inc0> it'd be cool to see the trend
16:59:24 <sdake> yup
16:59:26 <sdake> working on it
16:59:31 <inc0> thanks!
16:59:40 <inc0> ok we're at the time
16:59:53 <inc0> thank you all for coming!
16:59:57 <inc0> #endmeeting kolla