15:59:46 #startmeeting kolla 15:59:47 Meeting started Wed Jul 26 15:59:46 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is inc0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:59:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:59:51 The meeting name has been set to 'kolla' 15:59:58 #topic w00t for Kolla 16:00:03 w00t 16:00:08 w00t o/ 16:00:12 w00t 16:00:14 how's everyone? 16:00:15 o/ 16:00:17 woot o/ 16:00:24 evening 16:00:28 w00t 16:00:45 woot 16:01:08 o/ 16:01:33 o/ 16:02:25 0/ 16:02:27 let's give few more minutes 16:02:27 hi britthouser 16:02:36 Hey duonghq ! 16:04:14 o/ 16:04:24 let's move to announcements 16:04:29 #topic announcements 16:04:31 o/ 16:04:42 This week is P-3 release week 16:04:54 since we're tailing, we have 2 more weeks before P-3 16:05:13 that being said, projects will get into feature freeze so we should start heavy upgrade testing 16:05:32 o/ (sorry I'm late) 16:05:38 hi Vikram 16:05:43 hi dosaboy 16:05:47 so please, everyone, just run at least one upgrade O->P in scenario of your choice 16:05:48 hi duonghq 16:05:54 sorry duonghq typo 16:06:00 inc0: roger 16:06:19 any community announcements? 16:06:31 i have one. 16:06:33 voting has opened up 16:06:34 go ahead 16:06:44 for sessions britthouser? right 16:06:49 openstack days china is hold in recently two days. 16:07:16 how did kolla keynote go?:) 16:07:23 there is a keystone about kolla upgrade and power failure recovery keystone. 16:07:37 it is successful ;) 16:07:42 great! 16:07:54 Jeffrey4l do you mean keynote presentation? 16:08:03 awesome news Jeffrey4l ! 16:08:04 sdake, yep. 16:08:07 cool 16:08:08 yay! 16:08:17 sdake: upgrade on stage during keynote 16:08:24 may I ask who presented it? 16:09:00 check the pic http://imgur.com/a/TQOKx 16:09:25 lol 16:09:38 sdake, intel guys. inc0 should know the details. 16:09:47 Jeffrey4l tx 16:09:54 not that much, I learned about this keynote by accident;) 16:10:00 but whatever, I'm glad it went well 16:10:29 that's all from me. 16:10:37 anyone else? 16:11:33 ( just post another pic http://imgur.com/a/22UTW ) 16:12:39 ok, let's move on to agenda 16:12:44 #topic PTG planning 16:12:57 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kolla-queens-ptg-planning 16:13:10 so here's how I'd like to do it, another experiment:) 16:13:26 let's start by iterating over goals we want to achieve during Q 16:13:33 and then break this down to sessions 16:13:48 I don't expect us to finalize it today, we have time till PTG itself really 16:14:57 inc0: will we need 1 full day for kk8s ? 16:15:40 that depends on goals 16:16:17 We'll need time for TripleO discussions, but I'd love to have at least scope of cooperation decided beforehand 16:16:36 EmilienM: ^ let's discuss about that over next month please 16:17:03 let's figure out what we want to do together and use PTG for technical planning rather than discussions "what to share what to not" ok? 16:20:10 Jeffrey4l: did you get any feedback about Kolla from OpenStack days? 16:20:52 lots of operator are using it. 16:21:21 that's great to hear, I'd be interested to know what are painpoints and problems they have 16:21:25 so we can fix it 16:22:23 i heard nothing about the painpoints. i guess kolla is easy to use now. the key point is that openstack is still very complicated ;) 16:22:39 yeah not much we can do about that 16:24:08 sdake: may i add one in kk8s section ? 16:24:14 Jeffrey4l constant pain point is documentaiton 16:24:26 Jeffrey4l that is kolla's greatest weakness 16:24:33 spsurya_ please do - I feel all alone typing :) 16:24:45 ah, yep. 16:26:33 rwellum: FYI just added in eatherpad 16:26:36 please check 16:27:35 lgtm spsurya_ it's something I am working on right now too 16:27:52 rwellum: great!! thanks 16:28:11 i know that is why i added 16:28:15 :) 16:28:29 it seems we have much more to talk about kolla-k8s than kolla-ansible 16:28:33 is kolla-ansible done?;) 16:29:31 inc0: lol, i was about to ask same ques to you ;) 16:29:39 need more lines there 16:29:42 i guess 16:31:01 no, we don't:) I don't want to push discussion just for the sake of it 16:31:14 if we need 2 days of kolla-k8s and 1 day for rest is enough, that's good 16:34:57 inc0, can I have some mins at end of the meeting for my 2 topics? 16:35:02 sure 16:35:08 let's cut this off at :40 16:35:20 thanks 16:35:21 and do couple more planning sessions over next week 16:35:24 s 16:35:58 nice 16:37:49 ok, let's leave it for few days 16:38:06 everyone keep this etherpad around, feel free to add to it over time 16:38:21 we'll review it every week until PTG 16:39:01 Our goal is to have, by the time of PTG, set list of goals and sessions 16:39:07 rwellum: we will discuss about distributed ceph part 16:39:26 spsurya_: +1 16:39:40 #topic Ansible license 16:39:44 duonghq: go ahead 16:39:51 thank inc0 16:40:03 as we discussed couple weeks ago 16:40:36 I found that we have action_plugins inherit ansible class exactly same way as I use in strategy plugins 16:40:43 so can you use it? 16:41:22 duonghq: so thing about Ansible is that part of it is GPLv3 and another part is not 16:41:32 shouldn't inherit be OK. 16:41:46 yes, and the part used in action_plugins is GPLv3 16:41:52 uhh 16:42:16 so here is my take 16:42:21 none of us (that I know of) 16:42:23 are attorneys 16:42:31 i am! no wait... 16:42:31 attorneys train for years and years 16:42:38 LOL 16:42:38 just like engineers train for years and years 16:42:45 I thought inheriting native Ansible classes is not a violation of the license. 16:42:47 it takes a long ass time to be a good software engineer 16:43:03 #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/action/__init__.py 16:43:19 these sorts of questions are best handled by the experts in the field - that is the people with legal certification 16:44:06 is there an OS attorney we can bounce off of? 16:44:16 What about this: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/licensing.html 16:44:17 duonghq i have heard time and time again - every company has a different interpretation o the GPLv3 16:44:22 Seems pretty clear to me. 16:44:33 duonghq: so, "class ActionBase" in https://github.com/ansible/ansible/blob/devel/lib/ansible/plugins/action/__init__.py#L52 is GPLv3 per inheritance? 16:44:33 so bouncing off an OS lawyer would just provide an OS reference point 16:44:37 "Licenses considered incompatible with this requirement include GPLv2, GPLv3, and AGPL." 16:44:47 openstack has this http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-discuss 16:44:53 vhosakot, yes, if I understand correctly 16:45:01 archived mail list: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/legal-discuss/ 16:45:01 ultimately whoever ships kolla is responsible for ensuring they are in complaince with the laws in their country/state/regoin/etc 16:45:09 duonghq: yeah, that part is tricky :) 16:45:33 vhosakot, yes, and somebody did the trick with action_plugins 16:45:40 so I think we can repeat it again 16:46:00 so, talk with them will be a better solution. 16:46:01 I won't be surprised there is annother big-tent project (using custom Ansible libs) that does the same thing... don't think kolla is the only proj doing custom Ansible libs. 16:46:02 rwellum sadly that is a reductive statement - the reality is far more complex then my non-lawyer brain can handle 16:46:16 Do we know that they "did the trick" or just slipped it by and hasn't been noticed until now? 16:46:29 sdake: just quoting the openstack license page I linked above 16:46:48 rwellum right - what I mean there is that page is not worth tthe bits its written on :) 16:47:18 sdake: ack 16:47:38 well, AFAIK GPLv3 has nice rules around distribution, not so much about inheritance :) 16:47:43 Well I used that page to get permission from my company to commit upstream so now I am worried... 16:48:34 britthouser: well, looks like we haven't noticed it until now. duonghq how did you notice it in the first place? :) 16:48:48 rwellum we dont use any of the stuff duonghq is talking about in kolla-kubernetes 16:48:52 * inc0 hates gplv3 16:48:55 tox -e check_ansible_violations ? 16:49:07 inc0, isnt this same case? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/106761.html 16:49:19 sdake: that's a negative. We use merge configs there 16:49:30 egonzalez: kinda is 16:49:41 never got concrete response 16:49:44 this too I think - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095489.html 16:49:50 for all projects 16:50:19 well, inheritance is different than "reuse" ;) 16:50:41 that is the point, imo 16:50:56 duonghq: how did you find about it in the first place? :) 16:50:59 derivitive is hey word there 16:51:06 fellas - your guys are not attorneys 16:51:10 right 16:51:12 yet your playing oones on irc :) 16:51:18 lol 16:51:21 right, we have no idea;) 16:51:29 and nobody seems to have 16:51:30 if you really want to ask the question, ask someone that can answer it 16:51:32 vhosakot, sorry but I don't get your idea 16:51:41 we have no suits and do not charge high fee ;) 16:51:56 OpenStack has a legal affairs committee 16:52:19 duonghq: mind sending mail to openstack-legal? 16:52:22 Nissa Strottman is the chair 16:52:33 duonghq: I meant, how/where did you learn that inheriting a native class in our custom action_plugin is a violation? 16:52:45 vhosakot he doesn't know if it i 16:52:46 s 16:52:47 vhosakot: I made this concern 16:52:49 vhosakot that is his question 16:52:58 ah got it.. cool 16:53:01 vhosakot, I just look around in our project, 16:53:07 and nobody has provided a conrete answer - because we are not attorneys 16:53:15 finding something same as my plugin 16:53:22 legal-discuss@lists.openstack.org 16:53:40 inc0, sure, I'll try 16:54:06 so, is there any chance the feature is merged in this cycle? 16:54:37 inc0 i need a couple minutes to conclude plz 16:54:50 duonghq: we still have 2 weeks, let's try 16:55:03 duonghq: mind if I give this time to sdake? 16:55:06 inc0, thanks, so the 1st thing I should do is ask legal team? 16:55:11 yeah 16:55:51 inc0, only one short sentences 16:56:09 sure, don't wait for me;) 16:56:13 I hope that this serie https://review.openstack.org/#/c/398682/ can be merged so the ansible-become bp is completed in this cycle 16:56:21 that's all from me 16:56:25 sdake: 16:56:51 i should have mentioned this in the announcements 16:56:59 but slipped my mind 16:57:24 there are analytics for all kolla deliverables 16:57:32 that show download count 16:57:52 I am working on a way to provide these generally to other folks that want them 16:58:17 in june for exaple iirc there were approximately 5,000 downloads 16:58:39 that's a good number 16:58:57 especially if you add github and other sources of download 16:59:20 it'd be cool to see the trend 16:59:24 yup 16:59:26 working on it 16:59:31 thanks! 16:59:40 ok we're at the time 16:59:53 thank you all for coming! 16:59:57 #endmeeting kolla