16:05:21 <VW> #startmeeting Large Deployments Team
16:05:22 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Dec 15 16:05:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is VW. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:05:23 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:05:26 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'large_deployments_team'
16:05:39 <VW> #topic roll call
16:05:42 <VW> o/
16:06:04 <mdorman> o
16:06:38 <klindgren__> o/
16:08:05 <VW> hey both you guys are here
16:08:06 <VW> good
16:08:20 <VW> because klindgren has to help me remember things from BCN ;)
16:09:16 <klindgren> Thats a pretty tall ask :-D
16:09:18 <VW> with that...
16:09:25 <VW> #topic follow up from BCN
16:10:02 * VW goes to dig up some etherpads
16:11:19 <VW> here was our etherpad from BCN:
16:11:20 <VW> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BCN-Large-Deployments-Team
16:11:44 <VW> I feel like we touched on some things that would be worth getting with Devs and working on forum session submissions
16:13:49 <VW> There were some more Neutron bits that came up as potential ones to chase changes on
16:13:56 <VW> the client itself
16:14:14 <VW> or "partitioning" of neutron - ie, cells
16:14:34 <mdorman> yeah that one in particular stands out to me.  although it’s also probably the most vague at this point
16:15:22 <VW> there was also some discussion in the Nova meeting about some search/detailed calls in the APIs under cells v2 that left us all scratching our heads a bit
16:15:29 <VW> klindgren: you have any thoughts there
16:16:05 <klindgren> Searchlight seems to just re-duplicate cellsv1
16:16:33 <mdorman> i think LDT can be pretty helpful around testing teh cells v1 -> v2 upgrade path, and cells v2 in general.  although that’s also a bit of a niche thing.
16:16:49 <klindgren> with a slight change.  The fact that they were going to redirect to search light was the most disturbing to me.
16:17:22 <VW> I agree mdorman - we should be very helpful in those areas.  Sounds like it might be P before we get the upgrade path for v1 users
16:17:29 <VW> and yes klindgren - that worries me a lot
16:18:15 <VW> I guess, the part I'm trying to figure out is how do we effectively engage in that one?
16:19:34 <VW> do we need to have a special meeting and try to get some key nova folks in there?
16:19:43 <klindgren> I think that was wait an see, because they wanted to do what we expected the first time.  But the preffered path is searchlight.
16:19:54 <VW> that's right
16:20:01 <VW> because this is a short cycle
16:20:07 <VW> with the shift in dev time lines
16:20:29 <klindgren> but I htink it would be worth raising the concerns about the searchlight path.  As it basically duplicates the arch of cellsv1.
16:20:52 <VW> but, let me see if I can get john G. or some other folks to come in Feb (since he's UK, it will have to wait two meetings)
16:20:57 <mdorman> so the idea is using searchlight instead of nova calls to do searching of stuff?   Or also for listing?  I guess i don’t have th e full context on this
16:21:16 <mdorman> yeah that might be best, just some time when we can sync up and make sure we’re all onteh same page
16:21:56 <VW> for refference
16:21:58 <VW> #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/16934/nova-cells-v2-scheduler-searchlight-multi-cell-support
16:22:13 <mdorman> kk
16:23:02 <VW> sorry, mdorman - that's the actual session link but the etherpad is in there
16:23:12 <mdorman> yup i made the connection, np :)
16:23:53 <VW> are either of you (or anyone else lurking) aware at all of this:
16:23:55 <VW> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-nova-summit-cellsv2-quotas
16:25:18 <klindgren> I was not
16:25:34 <mdorman> i sort of remember skimming over some ML thread about this, but i don’t recall the details
16:27:06 <VW> this was another that they wanted our opinion on at the summit
16:27:18 <VW> I didn't know if we wanted to craft any "official" feedback
16:28:06 <klindgren> The only official feedback I have is, that quotas in nova is a travesty.  So anything that can actually make them not fall out of sync.  Would be welcomed
16:31:33 <mdorman> yeah i don’t have any particular thoughts on it either.  other than doing quotas in just one place seems like a good way to go.
16:32:06 <klindgren> but it seems like this might get rid of parts of that code path that can and do go wrong.  But I dont like the idea of a race causing over allocation.  But we are less dependent on that now than we use to be.
16:32:40 <VW> is this something we should partner with folks to get forum sessions for in Boston?
16:33:26 <mdorman> looks like the spec already merged, so may or may not be too late for significant feedback.  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388262/
16:34:19 <mdorman> yeah, although it kind of seems like a subtopic of “cells v2” to me, so maybe it’s most appropriate to aim for a more general cells v2 “cross project” session between LDT and Nova, where we can cover a few related topics.
16:34:58 <VW> sounds good
16:35:10 <VW> I'll bring this up again next month on the late meeting
16:35:36 <VW> and if we can get some Nova folks in in Feb, we should have enough to write a proposal
16:35:43 <mdorman> yup
16:35:57 <mdorman> would time out fairly well for getting stuff prepped for boston as well
16:36:20 <VW> yep
16:36:22 <VW> I think so
16:36:57 <VW> I feel like there was also some glance related stuff we chatted with devs about, but sadly that is escaping me
16:37:22 <VW> The other thing I'd like to do is get the us and the new Public Cloud WG to partner on a submission or two
16:37:44 <VW> I'll have to follow up with mattjarvis on getting that on his agenda soon for their meetings
16:38:02 <mattjarvis> VW, good idea ;)
16:39:18 <mdorman> speaking of other groups, is there much overlap with the new “massively distributed” group?  from limited info i saw, it wasn’t clear to me how LDT would interact with that one.
16:41:21 <VW> yeah, I think there may be some overlap there
16:42:06 <klindgren> I never fully understood that one as much.  Massively distributed seems like it just a large collection of smaller clouds?
16:42:16 <VW> is that the same as this
16:42:19 <VW> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LCOO
16:43:17 <mdorman> i’m pretty sure that’s something different
16:44:02 <mdorman> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Massively_Distributed_Clouds i think is it
16:45:15 <VW> yeah, we are seeing more and more overalp
16:46:35 <VW> side note, we need to clean this up
16:46:38 <VW> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Large_Deployment_Team
16:47:13 <VW> so, I think we need to find out more about the massively distributed group
16:47:18 <VW> maybe attend some meetings, etc
16:47:37 <VW> Last I heard, the LCCO folks weren't really doing things in IRC, etc, but I'll check with Tom on that
16:47:59 <VW> I do think that a good partnership between LDT and the public cloud WG's could produce some great results
16:48:28 <VW> mattjarvis: when is the next meeting for Public Clouds?
16:48:30 <VW> next week?
16:48:38 <mattjarvis> next Wednesday
16:48:44 <zioproto> hello all
16:48:49 <zioproto> I just arrived
16:49:01 <zioproto> Massively Distributed Clouds they have this vision of the Fog computing
16:49:17 <zioproto> they want to to do this system where the compute nodes are at the edge near the user
16:49:35 <zioproto> so instead of having a big DC with 1000 Servers, you have 10 servers at each network PoP
16:49:42 <VW> ah - thanks zioproto
16:49:47 <zioproto> that is the key idea of Massively Distributed and Fog Computing
16:50:00 <zioproto> I dont know how much overlap there is with Large Deployments
16:50:08 <zioproto> I guess we plan more on the big DC with many machines
16:50:28 <zioproto> so now
16:50:30 <zioproto> for them
16:50:34 <zioproto> practically speaking
16:50:47 <zioproto> the problems are things like running rabbitMQ geographically
16:50:50 <klindgren> So bascially you are more concerned with federation of a bunch of tiny clouds.  Trying to act as once large cloud?
16:51:12 <zioproto> that is the vision of the Massively Distributed
16:51:16 <klindgren> kinda like having nova-cells - with a bunch of really small clouds?
16:51:22 <zioproto> you have small amounts of compute nodes in many many sites
16:51:27 <klindgren> s/clouds/cells
16:51:30 <zioproto> I make an examples
16:51:42 <zioproto> if the VMs make NFV things like firewalls
16:51:51 <zioproto> you want these VMs to be spread out and near the end user
16:51:59 <mattjarvis> its a pretty common telco pattern
16:52:10 <zioproto> mattjarvis: bingo ! :)
16:52:17 <zioproto> I was writing exactly that
16:52:36 <VW> yeah, I think there is a TON of overlap between massively distributed and LCCO
16:52:40 <zioproto> so I think we dont necessarly want to follow the same goal of Massive Distributed in our WG
16:52:45 <VW> since both are very telco driven
16:53:04 <VW> cool
16:53:06 <mattjarvis> not sure who's in that Massively Distributed group
16:53:15 <zioproto> Oh is the first time I read about LCCO
16:53:20 <mattjarvis> LCCO ?
16:53:29 <zioproto> LCOO
16:53:34 <zioproto> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LCOO
16:53:35 <VW> sorry that
16:53:43 * VW types poorly
16:53:45 <VW> ;)
16:54:03 <VW> anyway, we are about out of time
16:54:07 <VW> this was actually very useful
16:54:09 <zioproto> but this is the LDT meeting right ? :)
16:54:12 <VW> yep
16:54:19 <zioproto> okay just to make sure :)
16:54:32 <VW> we were just talking about the upcoming summit and who we might partner with on some session submissions
16:54:55 <VW> sounds like we will engage the nova team (in our Feb meeting probably) to work on some potential topics
16:55:17 <VW> mattjarvis: you should probably plan on being here for that if we get some Nova cores in to talk cells V2
16:55:42 <VW> and I do think there will be an opportunity to partner with the Public Cloud WG on a submission or two
16:56:04 <VW> Neturon client performance/bloat/behavior was another topic that came up a lot with LDT in BCN
16:56:10 <mattjarvis> sounds good, keep me in the loop - not quite clear yet the direction of travel for Public Cloud WG, but should be defined by then
16:56:30 <VW> that we could probably reach out to Neutron on and get some submissions going
16:56:44 <VW> sorry - we were all over the place, but this was good
16:56:52 <VW> any other things folks need to dicuss?
16:57:22 <VW> thanks, mdorman, klindgren, zioproto and mattjarvis for the conversation
16:59:00 <mdorman> sure thing
16:59:22 <zioproto> thank you
16:59:31 <zioproto> bye bye
16:59:46 <VW> alright - see you all next month
16:59:51 <VW> #endmeeting