20:01:21 <Jokke_> #startmeeting log_wg
20:01:22 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Nov 18 20:01:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Jokke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:24 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:01:27 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'log_wg'
20:01:39 <Jokke_> #topic round call
20:02:11 <Rockyg> o/
20:02:17 <Jokke_> hi Rocky
20:02:27 <Rockyg> Hey!  I'm tired.
20:02:33 <Jokke_> looks like it's the two of us
20:02:45 <Rockyg> of course.
20:02:55 <Jokke_> agenda for today? Sounds like something light and short :P
20:02:55 <openstack> Rockyg: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.
20:03:07 <Jokke_> #chair Rockyg
20:03:07 <openstack> Current chairs: Jokke_ Rockyg
20:03:21 <Rockyg> oh.  ;P
20:03:22 <Jokke_> we have meeting on already
20:03:29 <Rockyg> Good.
20:03:34 <Jokke_> I thought to leave note to the logs if no-one shows up :P
20:03:48 <Rockyg> #topic Dev Progress
20:04:24 <Rockyg> #info the flexible user info patch got merged.  Forget what the review id is
20:05:04 <Rockyg> #info  Work has started on dynamic reconfig
20:05:27 <Rockyg> #info no progress on request-id propagated to log message spec
20:05:38 <Rockyg> Anything else on this topic?
20:05:54 <Jokke_> not that I know ... that was well tl;dr'd
20:06:17 <Rockyg> :-)
20:06:41 <Rockyg> So, that means open discussion...
20:06:50 <Rockyg> #topic Open Discussion
20:07:16 <Jokke_> I haven't seen any of the logging bugs coming in yet
20:07:19 <Rockyg> #info still need to write up summary of log work for Mitaka and post to Dev and Ops ML
20:07:27 <Jokke_> from those most annoying filter these out lists
20:07:52 <Rockyg> #info  Still need to write fiery email to get Ops to file log level bugs
20:08:30 <Rockyg> There.  Haven't gotten to it yet.  Haven't gotten my dev ML mailbox below 200 messages yet. :P
20:08:41 <Jokke_> ouch
20:09:15 <Rockyg> Yeah.  Lots of distractions.  Especially the stable release stuff.
20:09:20 <Jokke_> the log rationalization ... should we prep specs for that for the wider direction or keep it in the bugs?
20:09:36 <Jokke_> I'd like to keep it in the bugs tbh to avoid crazy bikeshedding
20:10:16 <Rockyg> Well, Doug wants us to just file lots of bugs for log level fixes.  He thinks if we get that done this release, we could go for error code next.
20:10:28 <Rockyg> So, keeping in bugs is good.
20:10:45 <Jokke_> it's so much easier to triage example by "Yes that is horrible indeed" than discuss about any wider concepts that would need to happen
20:10:49 <Jokke_> yeah
20:10:55 <Jokke_> I forgot about that
20:11:05 <Jokke_> so to get to work we really need those bugs
20:11:40 <Rockyg> The irritating thing is, if someone is in the code, changing levels, they could also be adding codes.
20:12:20 <Jokke_> I know, but I guess that boat has sailed for OpenStack
20:12:48 <Rockyg> Yeah.  Until I get a couple of interns.  So, N.
20:12:59 <Jokke_> need to wait until it's big enough painpoint for big enough deployers/support/service providers to get sufficient pressure on
20:13:04 <Jokke_> :D
20:14:27 <Rockyg> Pain point is already there, but most devs don't hear.  And if as a dev, you're only focused on one project, you don't see the breadth of the problem.
20:15:16 <Jokke_> I know as I said it's not big enough to get those execs telling that they are sick and tired of hearing about it, "Devs do something"
20:15:39 <Rockyg> Yeah.
20:16:02 <Rockyg> So, let me hijack this meeting.  Release.....
20:16:11 <Jokke_> shoot
20:16:40 <Rockyg> I'm thinking:  Get prod wg involved.  I also hear I need to get foundation mktg involved.
20:16:42 <Jokke_> should we wrap the meeting and just use the time and empty room?
20:17:50 * Jokke_ is wondering if we have anything else that should be logged to log_wg minutes
20:18:43 <Rockyg> possible plan:  juno: keep tree and do regular grenade testing to kilo; kilo:  get stable proj in shape to maybe try critical/security patches for 1.5 years?; liberty:  ready for 2 yrs support?
20:19:39 * Rockyg thinks we can push to next week for more log stuff.  Unless I missed something in the ml about logging
20:19:56 <Jokke_> I have difficulties to see that being agreed by tomorrow (even to the state "yes it's possible, lets postpone EOLing juno until we're sure")
20:20:08 <Jokke_> #endmeeting