15:00:11 <bswartz> #startmeeting manila
15:00:12 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Feb  5 15:00:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:13 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:16 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'manila'
15:00:23 <bswartz> hello all
15:00:32 <vponomaryov> hello
15:00:38 <markstur_> hi
15:00:40 <tbarron> hi
15:00:48 <u_glide> hi
15:00:49 <bswartz> #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings
15:01:09 <xyang_> hi
15:01:31 <bswartz> ok
15:01:39 <bswartz> some of you may have seen my ML post
15:01:45 <bswartz> K-2 was completed last night
15:01:48 <geguileo> hi
15:02:11 <bswartz> thanks again to those who helped out with reviews
15:02:14 <rushil> \o
15:02:21 <bswartz> #topic kilo-3
15:02:42 <bswartz> so now stuff targeted for K-3 can start merging
15:02:44 <mkoderer> hi
15:02:59 <bswartz> you can read my ML post for reminders about the deadlines
15:03:16 <bswartz> #link https://launchpad.net/manila/+milestone/kilo-3
15:03:33 <bswartz> there's a lot of stuff here
15:03:45 <bswartz> this list needs to get cleaned up
15:04:11 <bswartz> really there's only 4 weeks left to wrap up features so I'm sure some of the things there simply won't make it
15:04:36 <bswartz> do yourself a favor and submit early so your feature isn't one that doesn't make it
15:05:04 <bswartz> after Kilo-3, there will be no new features until L
15:05:38 <bswartz> okay enough on that
15:05:41 <bswartz> #topic dev status
15:05:51 <vponomaryov> dev status:
15:05:55 <vponomaryov> 1) New standalone network plugin
15:05:59 <vponomaryov> BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/standalone-network-plugin
15:06:03 <vponomaryov> gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/151640
15:06:04 <vponomaryov> status: ready for review
15:06:11 <vponomaryov> 2) Generic driver now has two driver modes - with and without share servers handling.
15:06:18 <vponomaryov> 3) Manila has functionality "level of access for shares". Some new drivers have it, but all existing should start using it where possible.
15:06:28 <vponomaryov> 4) Types improvements:
15:06:31 <vponomaryov> BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/share-type-require-driver-mode
15:06:34 <vponomaryov> BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/default-volume-type
15:06:43 <vponomaryov> status: work in progress
15:06:47 <vponomaryov> 5) Manage/unmanage shares
15:06:50 <vponomaryov> BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/manage-shares
15:06:53 <vponomaryov> gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/147495
15:06:57 <vponomaryov> status: finished, ready for review
15:07:03 <vponomaryov> 6) level of visibility for shares
15:07:07 <vponomaryov> BP: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/level-of-visibility-for-shares
15:07:10 <vponomaryov> gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/148853
15:07:13 <vponomaryov> status: ready for review
15:07:17 <vponomaryov> that's the main
15:07:36 <bswartz> so there's a lot there that's ready for review
15:07:59 <bswartz> I've been prioritizing K2 stuff over reviewing these so hopefully now I can get to all of those
15:09:01 <bswartz> I don't think any of the above is new, but now's your chance to ask if you want to know about something
15:09:35 <jasonsb> i was curious about access level
15:09:52 <jasonsb> is it going to stay the way it is for a while
15:09:52 <bswartz> that's just the read-only/read-write discussion we had a few weeks back
15:10:01 <jasonsb> or were you thinking about adding more attributes
15:10:09 <jasonsb> (or still digesting)
15:10:47 <bswartz> anything we add would need need support from backends
15:11:06 <bswartz> if some backends can't support a certain level then we can't really standardize it
15:11:14 <jasonsb> i was thinking about the root-squash conversation
15:11:20 <jasonsb> okdokey
15:11:22 <bswartz> read-only and read-write seem like the only universally understood access levels
15:11:51 <bswartz> root-squash needs a closer look -- it's a very common concept in the NFS world -- but I don't know if anyone can't support it
15:12:25 <bswartz> is anyone aware of a backend that can do NFS but can't do root squashing?
15:12:53 <ganso_> I do not know, need to investigate that
15:13:27 <bswartz> well this silence sounds promising
15:13:44 <markstur_> would not  be able to do it on CIFS.  Only on NFS.
15:13:54 <bswartz> yeah CIFS is totally different
15:14:19 <bswartz> CIFS actually has security in the protocol unlike NFS
15:14:33 * bswartz is joking....
15:15:05 <bswartz> okay on to everyone's favorite topic
15:15:10 <bswartz> #topic manila midcycle meetup
15:15:26 <bswartz> So the dates are set
15:15:36 <bswartz> Feb 11 and Feb 12
15:16:12 <bswartz> so far nobody took me up on my offer to host people locally in RTP, which is what I expected
15:16:14 <dalgaaf> is there alreay an agenda?
15:16:47 <mkoderer> I guess it would be useful to assign some times to the agenda
15:16:56 <bswartz> Since the meetup will be purely virtual, it should be better for those who can't join locally
15:17:06 <bswartz> oh yeah
15:17:09 <bswartz> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-kilo-midcycle-meetup
15:17:20 <bswartz> so the agenda is just a random list at the moment
15:17:39 <bswartz> we need to prioritize the items and do some scheduling
15:17:55 <dalgaaf> sounds good
15:18:11 <mkoderer> will it be a web conference? or just irc?
15:18:16 <bswartz> honestly I've only ever done face-to-face meetups so I'm not experienced with the challenges we're going to face
15:18:35 <bswartz> I'm going to use a Google Hangout, with a telephone bridge
15:18:35 <vponomaryov> need mute-hammer =)
15:18:53 <ganso_> vponomaryov: lol +1
15:18:58 <mkoderer> bswartz: ok let's try that... ;)
15:19:12 <bswartz> google hangouts is unfortunately limited in the number of people that can join, but a teleconference system can scale pretty well
15:19:25 <bswartz> and we've bridged the 2 before with relatively good success
15:19:28 <jasonsb> voice qualality on google is really good though
15:19:54 <bswartz> so the main challenge for the meetup will be that, because nobody is traveling, we're all in different timezones
15:20:17 <mkoderer> yep I won't be available all the time for instance
15:20:22 <bswartz> and the times I selected will be very difficult for some people (USA west coast and pacific ocean in particular)
15:20:34 <mkoderer> so having timeslots for topics would be nice
15:20:41 <dalgaaf> which time zones are the developers mostly from?
15:20:49 <dalgaaf> USA and Europe?
15:20:55 <vponomaryov> dalgaaf: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-kilo-midcycle-meetup
15:20:57 <mkoderer> dalgaaf: it all in here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-kilo-midcycle-meetup
15:21:18 <bswartz> the plan is to duplicate some content in the "morning" and "afternoon" sessions so that people who can't join one can still participate
15:21:26 <bswartz> however I have no idea how well that will work
15:22:14 <bswartz> If there's stuff you'd like to talk about or hear about, please add it to the agenda
15:22:40 <bswartz> Personally I want to spend time on things that will matter during the rest of Kilo
15:23:04 <mkoderer> bswartz: will you do the prioritization or should we do a voting?
15:23:34 <bswartz> please add your +1 to topics you want on the etherpad and I'll do my best
15:24:54 <bswartz> we can also discuss here if there's anything someone would really like to see/hear
15:25:36 <marcusvrn1> the meetings that will be on wednesday can be duplicated, but what about thursday meeting?
15:25:37 <bswartz> My plan is to prepare a presentation on manila architecture (aimed at future developers and deployers) and to try it out on you guys
15:26:30 <bswartz> marcusvrn1: the "afternoon" session on Wednesday will have to cover anything from the "morning" sessions that people are interested in
15:26:59 <bswartz> I thought 12 hours would be the max we could all stand being on the phone
15:27:17 <dalgaaf> does it make even sense to duplicate ?
15:27:18 <bswartz> and I weighted the time towards the timezones that most people will be available
15:27:21 <marcusvrn1> bswartz: ok!
15:27:40 <bswartz> maybe this format won't work out well
15:27:57 <ganso_> maybe we should add +1 and our names as well?
15:28:00 <dalgaaf> e.g. at the ceph developer Summit, which was completely virtual, we didn't duplicate
15:28:09 <bswartz> but I don't have a better idea given the international nature of the team
15:28:23 <dalgaaf> check e.g.: https://wiki.ceph.com/Planning/CDS/CDS_Giant_and_Hammer_%28Jun_2014%29
15:28:30 <bswartz> dalgaaf: I like that idea, but I'm wondering how spread out the ceph team is, timezone-wise
15:28:46 <dalgaaf> US, EMEA, Asia
15:29:10 <dalgaaf> the first day was US and EMEA mainly and the second day US and Asia
15:29:39 <dalgaaf> but you still can attend to both tracks if you are interested ;)
15:30:21 <bswartz> we won't have as much prepared presentation content for this summit
15:30:42 <bswartz> I want a lot of discussion to happen -- I think that's the main value of these meetups
15:30:52 <bswartz> and duplicating discussion is really hard to do
15:30:53 <dalgaaf> I'm simply not sure how it will work if you discuss a topic twice
15:31:29 <bswartz> yeah I don't think we'll duplicate discussions, but we can duplicate presentations and we can do a recap of earlier discussion for those that missed them
15:31:48 <bswartz> I expect we'll learn a lot by trying this out
15:32:09 <bswartz> and for L we can either plan it much further in advance and hope more people can travel, or try to shift to a format more like ceph's
15:32:28 <dalgaaf> is there a plan to record the sessions and put it e.g. on youtube?
15:32:48 <bswartz> I think we can get audio recorded fairly easily
15:33:22 <mkoderer> dalgaaf: do you know who that works for the ceph summit.. is it just an option in google hangout?
15:33:46 <dalgaaf> I assume ... both google products
15:34:09 <dalgaaf> I can ask the ceph guys how it works
15:34:20 <bswartz> I hope to get my architecture presentation polished enough for a youtube video, but it won't be by next week
15:34:22 <mkoderer> but writing imporant things down on etherpad works too IMHO
15:34:48 <bswartz> yeah we will absolutely take notes on etherpad
15:34:54 <dalgaaf> https://support.google.com/plus/answer/2553119?hl=en
15:35:24 <bswartz> I've been to a few Cinder meetups and I like very much how their format works, but they have the advantage of being mostly USA based, and people are able to travel
15:37:09 <bswartz> anything else about the meetup?
15:37:10 <dalgaaf> if the meetup is prepared 2 or 3 months in front it's may also possible to travel
15:37:15 <bswartz> and questions or things you'd like to see/hear?
15:37:29 <bswartz> yeah I hear you dalgaaf
15:37:43 <bswartz> for L we will schedule it before vancouver
15:38:34 <bswartz> and for those of you who don't know, I won't be attending Vancouver in person, due to the birth of my second child
15:38:58 <markstur_> congrats
15:38:58 <bswartz> so that will be an interesting challenge as well
15:39:02 <jasonsb> oh congrats
15:39:13 <ganso_> congrats :)
15:39:14 <bswartz> at least vancouver isn't very far off from my home, timezone-wise
15:39:29 <bswartz> thank you :)
15:39:32 <marcusvrn1> congrats
15:39:35 <markstur_> newborns don't care about time zones
15:39:42 <jasonsb> heh
15:39:47 <mkoderer> :)
15:40:05 <bswartz> well hopefully the baby will do me a favor and not be born until the Saturday after the conference
15:40:25 <u_glide> :)
15:40:26 <bswartz> but since these things are unpredictable, I plan to join remotely for as much as I can
15:41:07 <bswartz> #topic open discussion
15:41:20 <bswartz> so anything else for today?
15:41:39 <mkoderer> tempest scenario testing
15:41:48 <markstur_> there is a survey to pick L name (and maybe name Ben's child?)
15:41:49 <bswartz> if not, we can all get started on reviews for K-3 and preparing any presentations for next week
15:41:59 <bswartz> markstur_: lol
15:42:02 <mkoderer> I really hope we can start with them next week
15:42:12 <bswartz> mkoderer: yes!
15:42:29 <bswartz> mkoderer: I'm very interested in that topic
15:42:46 <bswartz> the first thing I'd like to see if a test plan that all interested parties can review
15:42:47 <mkoderer> should we put them into contrib/ before we move them into tempest directly?
15:43:19 <mkoderer> bswartz: ok. that should be possible :)
15:43:22 <bswartz> I don't really care where the code lives as long as it gets written and we can use it to do better end-to-end testing
15:43:38 <mkoderer> bswartz: I remeber that I acutually created a wiki page about it.. let me search
15:43:44 <bswartz> tempest seems to be in flux at the moment anyways and it's not clear to me how it will shake out (or when)
15:43:53 <bswartz> yeah a link to the wiki would be good
15:44:06 <vponomaryov> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/specs/scenario-tests
15:44:12 <bswartz> vponomaryov: ty!
15:44:17 <mkoderer> vponomaryov: thx :)
15:44:32 <bswartz> so this tables needs to get filled in with test plans
15:44:33 <mkoderer> yeah it's empty but we need to fill it up
15:44:48 <bswartz> so we can make sure that we're covering everything we need to
15:45:08 <bswartz> once we can agree on the plan, we can create tasks and split them up amoung whoever's willing to work on them
15:45:15 <mkoderer> bswartz: yep.. will do :)
15:45:26 <bswartz> thank you for leading on this mkoderer
15:45:53 <bswartz> for anyone not familiar with the issue -- the existing tempest tests don't yet exercise the data path for shares created by manila
15:46:30 <bswartz> so it's possible for serious bugs to creep into the network code and the driver share-access code and for tempest not to catch them
15:46:53 <bswartz> thus manual tests are still needed to make sure everything works
15:47:34 <bswartz> once we have these "scenario tests" merged and running in the gate, we can have much higher confidence that individual changes aren't breaking things
15:48:08 <vponomaryov> bswartz: it is not related to driver not covered by CI
15:48:16 <vponomaryov> any drivers
15:48:32 <bswartz> vponomaryov: that's another topic
15:49:00 <bswartz> obviously the gate will only run these tests using the generic driver -- which is significantly better than what we have now
15:49:15 <bswartz> Vendor CI will be required to properly test the drivers
15:49:24 <bswartz> and that's something I'd like to see for L
15:49:40 <bswartz> the experience of the Cinder team with CI has been very interesting
15:49:56 <bswartz> it's been painful for many, but ultimately it's been very positive
15:50:57 <bswartz> forcing vendors to test their drivers in an automated way really improves quality and increases community participation
15:51:53 <bswartz> some might argue that vendors should be testing their code anyways, but that's been proven to be untrue
15:52:24 <vponomaryov> bswartz: 95% of developers do not test their code =)
15:52:35 <jasonsb> heh
15:52:36 <bswartz> vponomaryov: +1
15:53:10 <bswartz> alright I think that's it for today
15:53:28 <bswartz> oh I'll put scenarios tests on the meetup agenda
15:53:31 <jasonsb> time to start socializing the cap ex
15:53:33 <bswartz> I want to talk about that some more
15:53:35 <jasonsb> to run CI
15:53:52 <bswartz> okay I can put CI on the agenda to, so it's not a big surprise to anyone when we propose it for L
15:54:08 <bswartz> thanks everyone and see you next week
15:54:09 <jasonsb> there will be some lead time i would expect
15:54:12 <jasonsb> so sounds good
15:54:54 <bswartz> #endmeeting