15:00:45 <bswartz> #startmeeting manila
15:00:45 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug 24 15:00:45 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:46 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:49 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'manila'
15:00:53 <bswartz> hello all
15:00:55 <xyang2> hi
15:00:56 <ganso> hello
15:00:58 <zhongjun> hi
15:01:01 <tbarron> hi
15:01:22 <vkmc> hi
15:01:40 <bswartz> so today's meeting will be pretty short I think
15:01:51 <bswartz> there's nothing on the agenda
15:01:56 <bswartz> just 1 week to release
15:01:56 <jungleboyj> @!
15:01:57 <_pewp_> jungleboyj ヽ(´･ω･`)､
15:02:06 <zhongjun> I have one
15:02:42 <bswartz> The main priority is to discuss any ship stopper bugs which might motivate an RC2 release
15:03:00 <bswartz> zhongjun: if you have a topic we can cover it next
15:03:06 <bswartz> #topic Pike release
15:03:16 <zhongjun> bswartz: sure
15:03:24 <markstur> hi
15:03:33 <toabctl> hi
15:03:46 <bswartz> so does anyone know of any ship stopper bugs?
15:04:00 <gouthamr> hi o/
15:04:24 <bswartz> I'm looking through the recently filed ones on LP and not finding any
15:04:28 <tbarron> bswartz: i think we have to get the doc patches in stable/pike, am getting confirmation
15:04:36 <gouthamr> tbarron: +1
15:04:36 <tbarron> doc migration patches
15:04:46 <bswartz> tbarron: what makes you think that?
15:05:03 <bswartz> I kinda don't like that idea, except for the install guide stuff
15:05:03 <xyang2> otherwise we have no docs in pike
15:05:14 <zhongjun> tbarron: +1
15:05:16 <bswartz> historically, docs were always published from master
15:05:26 <bswartz> there were no versioned docs
15:05:36 <xyang2> bswartz: openstack-manual has branches for stable/ocata, etc
15:05:42 <tbarron> ok, doesn't have to be in rc2 but we have to get them in stable/pike:
15:05:45 <bswartz> because backporting docs patches is a big waste of time
15:05:48 <tbarron> "you can do a point release after the final deadline to have a tarball that includes docs, if you want, but we generally want release candidates to have changes that need to be tested"
15:05:48 <jungleboyj> tbarron:  Yes, that would be good.
15:05:56 <jungleboyj> Don't need an RC for it.
15:05:56 <tbarron> quote from dhellman
15:05:58 <jungleboyj> I don't think.
15:06:35 <bswartz> so has the docs team shifted their stance on versioned docs?
15:06:45 <bswartz> we now publish multiple versions on docs.o.o?
15:06:58 <tbarron> bswartz: I think the issue is that this is a pike deliverable for openstack as a whole
15:07:05 <tbarron> and otherwise our docs will be missing
15:07:13 <tbarron> 404
15:07:23 <jungleboyj> We have a meeting at 11 central with the docs team.
15:07:29 <bswartz> tbarron: that implies that the website published from the stable branch only
15:07:31 <gouthamr> bswartz: if you go to https://docs.openstack.org you will be redirected to https://docs.openstack.org/pike/
15:07:39 <jungleboyj> Hoping we can maybe better understand what is happening there with the release.
15:07:52 <bswartz> and that docs changes to the master branch are reflected nowhere
15:07:58 <gouthamr> so yes, all documents will be versioned... except API-ref
15:08:02 <tbarron> ok, but we don't have to have the changes in rc2
15:08:12 <jungleboyj> bswartz:  THe docs changes to master go to <project>/latest
15:08:15 * dustins skids in late
15:08:23 <jungleboyj> dustins:  Safe!
15:08:25 <tbarron> they are ready to be merged into master, let's do that today if we can
15:08:45 <tbarron> then it sounds like we have a little bit of time for stable/pike
15:08:46 <bswartz> I'm just confused about how this should be managed going forwards
15:09:04 <bswartz> is the backport to pike a 1 time thing, and then we never backport docs changes to stable again?
15:09:10 <zhongjun> bswartz: yes, we can not find our doc in  openstack-manuals master branch now
15:09:17 <bswartz> or is there an expectation that docs changes get backported constantly?
15:09:32 <jungleboyj> bswartz: Shouldn't have to backport constantly unless it is important.
15:09:37 <tbarron> i think so, if we had done the migration in a timely manner we'd never have to backport
15:09:56 <tbarron> unless we found something wrong in an old release and really want to fix it
15:10:11 <ganso> don't we have to deal with config options that make sense for ocata but doesn't make sense for Pike?
15:10:18 <bswartz> but this implies to me that if we find and fix docs bug next month, users won't see the fix until queens ships
15:10:18 <tbarron> but we started the migration late so need to get it into pike
15:10:20 <jungleboyj> tbarron:  True.
15:10:23 <ganso> s/doesn't/don't
15:10:52 <jungleboyj> bswartz:  Well the question is if people will be directed to pike or the latest documentation on the website by default.
15:10:54 <gouthamr> tbarron: actively reviewing.. i like the idea of merging everything today
15:11:00 <bswartz> unless we do the additional effort of backporting the docs fix
15:11:00 <jungleboyj> I don't know the answer to that yet.
15:11:15 <tbarron> if they are deploying from master they should be smart enough to  build their docs from master
15:11:27 <jungleboyj> tbarron:  ++
15:11:50 <bswartz> it seems like we're putting extra burden on docs maintainers, right at a time when there are less of them, that's all
15:11:54 <xyang2> without docs in Pike we have to refer users to stable/ocata: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/stable/ocata/doc/config-reference/source/shared-file-systems
15:12:37 <jungleboyj> bswartz:  That is the point.  The burden isn't on them, it is on us.
15:12:38 <bswartz> I actually think it's better for users to have versioned docs where all the versions are perfectly maintained an accurate -- but in the past the docs team said that was too much effort so we wouldn't do it
15:12:56 <jungleboyj> Looks like, at the moment, the website goes to pike by default.
15:13:16 <tbarron> bswartz: aren't these meta discussions that should be on openstack dev mail or #openstack-doc irc?
15:13:29 <tbarron> practically, we need to merge these
15:13:38 <bswartz> okay so going forward people who work on docs need to be aware of branches and backports and all the fun stuff that developers have to deal with
15:13:52 <tbarron> and then backport them this once, but the backport doesn't have to be before rc2 is cut
15:14:01 <jungleboyj> bswartz:  I think that is accurate.
15:14:33 <bswartz> tbarron: it is a meta discussion but I want to make sure I understand the current community stance because it seems I was living in the past
15:14:34 <tbarron> going forward the people who work on manila docs are contributors just like developers, working in manila tree
15:14:45 <tbarron> bswartz: ack
15:14:46 <bswartz> okay
15:15:17 <bswartz> well then I support merging docs to master and backporting them asap
15:15:25 <bswartz> I'm still unclear on the status of RC2
15:15:35 <jungleboyj> That is what Cinder has been doing.
15:15:36 <bswartz> why not cut an RC2 after the docs are sorted out?
15:15:49 <bswartz> is the problem just that it's too late to do so?
15:15:53 <tbarron> bswartz: we can, but we don't have to.
15:16:05 <bswartz> okay let's see if we can get it done this week
15:16:07 <tbarron> that's all dhellmann was saying
15:16:20 <bswartz> I'll push a tag tomorrow if we can get all the backports done by then
15:16:27 <tbarron> kk
15:16:39 <bswartz> sounds like no actual code bugs require an RC2 however
15:16:46 <bswartz> which is good news
15:16:50 <xyang2> bswartz: we can merge doc patches now, right?
15:16:59 <bswartz> to master yes
15:17:13 <bswartz> backports evidently need my approval since the stable branch is in lockdown mode
15:17:22 <tbarron> patches are all under topic 'doc-migration'
15:17:32 <bswartz> tbarron: thanks for doing that work
15:17:36 <tbarron> np
15:17:40 <bswartz> I'm sure it was not a small effort
15:17:49 <bswartz> anything else on the release?
15:18:10 <tbarron> zhongjun: I think I hijacked your agenda item, sorry!!!
15:18:11 <bswartz> zhongjun: what was your topic?
15:18:26 <bswartz> no we're getting to her next
15:18:30 <zhongjun> It is a simple topic
15:18:32 <tbarron> k
15:18:32 <bswartz> her item was not on the official agenda
15:18:57 <zhongjun> bswartz: there are some tc goals in queens version. Such as: policy-in-code.
15:18:57 <zhongjun> https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/queens/policy-in-code.html
15:19:08 <zhongjun> Is this something we would also like to implement in manila queens version?
15:19:10 <bswartz> #topic policy-in-code
15:19:17 <bswartz> #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/queens/policy-in-code.html
15:19:45 <zhongjun> tbarron: It doesn't matter, docs is more important than this topic
15:20:02 <tbarron> just more imminent
15:20:15 <bswartz> well of course we're interested in all of the TC's official goals
15:20:34 <zhongjun> bswartz: Do we need a spec for this work? Since we already had a common spec in tc-specs.
15:20:48 <bswartz> if this is one of the already agreed-to ones then we need to understand what is required for manila and prepare a response
15:20:58 <tbarron> zhongjun: you were telling me this may be a non-trivial amount of work, right?
15:21:04 <tbarron> but that we need to do it
15:21:08 <zhongjun> But the common spec lack of Proposed change section about how to do it in manila. It just cite the sample about how to implement this feature in nova and keystone.
15:21:31 <bswartz> I would like a manila-specific spec to track the work on the manila side for anything nontrivial
15:21:42 <ganso> zhongjun: I think if the sample applies to manila as well there would be no need for a spec, right bswartz ?
15:22:02 <zhongjun> tbarron: yeah, it will  affect all APIs
15:22:04 <bswartz> the spec can liberally refer to other documents
15:22:33 <tbarron> zhongjun: then I think a spec is appropriate and helpful
15:22:54 <bswartz> manila is not exactly like other projects so it's worth at least considering all of the ramifications of the change for us
15:23:12 <bswartz> please make sure that topic ends up on the PTG etherpad too
15:23:23 <bswartz> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ptg-queens
15:23:31 <bswartz> oh I see it's here already
15:24:52 <bswartz> zhongjun: should we discuss any specifics today or should we just cover this at PTG?
15:25:03 <zhongjun> bswartz: yeah, we could do it earlier if we have plan about it
15:25:16 <bswartz> I'll need to look at any other TC goals before then too
15:25:21 <tbarron> zhongjun: were you thinking of working on this?
15:25:28 * gouthamr doesn't know how tbarron kept his head straight through these doc patches
15:25:39 <bswartz> honestly I don't follow TC activities anymore since they stopped holding meetings on IRC
15:25:55 <tbarron> if someone has a draft spec before PTG it might be useful :)
15:26:24 <tbarron> gouthamr: I didn't, thanks for fixing my circular dependency chain
15:26:33 <zhongjun> tbarron: yes, I am thinking of working on this
15:26:52 <gouthamr> tbarron: that one was identified by friendly folks over at openstack-infra
15:27:03 <bswartz> hehe
15:27:30 <tbarron> zuul is easily confused
15:27:49 <tbarron> actually, it just does the right thing
15:28:56 <bswartz> alright
15:28:59 <bswartz> #topic open discussion
15:29:04 <bswartz> anything else for today?
15:29:59 <bswartz> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/manila+branch:master+topic:doc-migration
15:30:04 <bswartz> these 5 patches right?
15:30:14 <amito-infinidat> anyone is coming for the real (Denver) PTG?
15:30:25 <bswartz> .o/
15:30:37 <jungleboyj> @!
15:30:37 <_pewp_> jungleboyj ヽ(´･ω･`)､
15:30:38 <tbarron> bswartz: note that there are also manila-ui, python-manilaclient, image-elements changes
15:30:46 <bswartz> I'll be in Denver for crossproject and cinder meetings
15:30:46 <ganso> o/
15:30:48 <gouthamr> amito-infinidat bswartz and i'll be there
15:31:06 <amito-infinidat> cool, see you there!
15:31:18 <dustins> amito-infinidat: I will not be there
15:32:23 <zhongjun> dustins: haha, me too
15:32:33 <bswartz> tbarron: ack
15:32:53 <bswartz> alright I think that's all we have today
15:33:05 <bswartz> I'll try for an RC2 tomorrow
15:33:10 <bswartz> release is next week
15:33:31 <bswartz> let's be preparing for PTG with specs and prototypes
15:33:46 <bswartz> #endmeeting