16:56:05 <geoffarnold> #startmeeting mercadorproject
16:56:06 <openstack> Meeting started Fri Jun 26 16:56:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is geoffarnold. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:56:07 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:56:10 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'mercadorproject'
16:56:15 <raildo> \o
16:56:26 <geoffarnold> Greetings
16:56:40 <geoffarnold> Let's give it a few minutes
16:56:58 <raildo> sure
16:58:45 <geoffarnold> #topic welcome
16:58:55 <marekd> welcome
16:59:33 <raildo> hi marekd :)
16:59:35 <gyee> what's on the menu?
16:59:43 <geoffarnold> So this is the first meeting of the Mercador stackforge project. If you're not interested in OpenStack service federation, you're in the wrong place
17:01:06 <geoffarnold> I went ahead and set up the project with zero content (except for the wiki page) because I wanted to start with a level field; everyone gets a chance to review and contribute to everything
17:02:10 <geoffarnold> The primary goal of this first meeting is to identify participants and roles
17:02:29 <marekd> is there anythong to review already?
17:02:39 <rodrigods> hi all
17:03:18 <geoffarnold> The starting point is the material in the wiki page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mercador
17:03:27 <iurygregory> hello
17:03:44 <geoffarnold> #topic introductions
17:04:27 <geoffarnold> I'd like it if everybody could introduce themselves: name, affiliation, interest level
17:05:04 <geoffarnold> Geoff Arnold, Cisco Intercloud Services, initiator of this effort
17:05:48 <marekd> Marek Denis, CERN, has been working on OS-FEDERATION since October 2013
17:05:55 <davidjc> David C, Cisco Intercloud Services, co-initiator, dev
17:06:26 <raildo> Raildo Mascena, Universidade Federal de Campina Grande, core team from mercador, working with hierarchical multitenancy and reseller on keystone
17:06:27 <rodrigods> Rodrigo Duarte, Universidade Federal de Campina Grande, working with federation since the Juno release
17:06:43 <atiwari> Arvind Tiwari Cisco Intercloud Services
17:06:59 <gyee> Guang Yee, HP Helion, I help solve problems :)
17:07:00 <iurygregory> Iury Gregory,   Universidade Federal de Campina Grande, working with federation since the Kilo release
17:07:10 <raildo> gyee, best definition
17:07:14 * morganfainberg is a lurker and hides in the corner.
17:07:28 <setmason> Seth Mason, Cisco Intercloud Services
17:07:33 <geoffarnold> Orran Krieger of Massachusetts Open Cloud would be here, but had an urgent commitment
17:07:36 <ganeshna_> Ganesh, Cisco India, interested in OpenStack development
17:08:16 <geoffarnold> Any more?
17:09:05 <geoffarnold> #topic housekeeping
17:10:03 <geoffarnold> I'd like to propose that we use Trello to track the various subtasks for this project:  https://trello.com/b/6tlmk3z4/mercador-stackforge-project
17:10:39 <geoffarnold> It's a public Trello board, but I don't think we need to worry about vandalism
17:11:51 <geoffarnold> I think all of the necessary links are in the wiki -  repos, meetings, project
17:12:55 <geoffarnold> Any questions at this stage?
17:13:50 <iurygregory> no =)
17:13:57 <geoffarnold> ;-0
17:14:00 <geoffarnold> OK
17:14:52 <geoffarnold> The objective for the Liberty cycle is to implement a virtual region proof-of-concept in order to demonstrate it at Tokyo
17:16:05 <raildo> ok
17:16:05 <geoffarnold> There are a couple of challenges in achieving this
17:16:52 <geoffarnold> First is functional: successfully automating the [re]configuration of Keystone and Horizon when we add (and remove) a virtual region
17:17:44 <geoffarnold> Second is infra-related: how do we create a testing context for this system. It requires two independent OpenStack instances
17:17:51 <geoffarnold> Devstack won't cut it
17:18:27 <geoffarnold> The rest should be fairly straightforward:
17:18:51 <geoffarnold> Data modeling, service implementation (using Pecan), CLI
17:19:01 <marekd> API
17:19:06 <geoffarnold> Yup
17:19:18 <geoffarnold> Three APIs:
17:19:27 <geoffarnold> CLI-to-publisher
17:19:34 <geoffarnold> CLI-to-subscriber
17:19:44 <geoffarnold> subscriber-to-publisher
17:20:17 <marekd> trust management
17:20:35 <shaleh> marekd: ++
17:20:43 <geoffarnold> Agreed. Feels like a very distinct role
17:20:55 <marekd> what transport layer (protocol) are you going to use?
17:21:23 <geoffarnold> https, I assume
17:21:38 <marekd> i was rather asking about protocols like OpenID connect
17:21:44 <marekd> so, identity management.
17:22:02 <marekd> when sub with pub communicate, you are going to rely on some sort of service accounts?
17:22:03 <geoffarnold> Oh I see - I assume we'd build on the Keystone-to-Keystone
17:22:33 <marekd> so sub would still rely on keystone as identity master
17:22:38 <geoffarnold> Right. Publisher sets up virtual regions, creates an admin account for each
17:22:44 <geoffarnold> yes
17:24:04 <geoffarnold> One fairly urgent issue is to identify dependencies on Keystone (and Horizon) work
17:24:28 <geoffarnold> For example, the whole question of namespaces for HMT
17:25:06 <geoffarnold> Since the whole "virtual region" model builds on HMT
17:25:25 <marekd> can it be shared?
17:25:32 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, the Reseller effort should be merged in Liberty
17:25:42 <marekd> among identtities coming different clouds ?
17:25:53 <rodrigods> also, with namespacing concepts like service providers to projects/domains
17:26:18 <marekd> rodrigods: that was supposed to be endpoint filtering?
17:26:24 <geoffarnold> I don't think a single virtual region can be shared, since when it's subscribed it uses the subscriber's IDM
17:26:29 <rodrigods> marekd, it is supposed :)
17:26:30 * stevemar sneaks in late
17:26:35 <gyee> what's the topology like? cloud -> domains -> subdomains -> projects -> subprojects?
17:26:49 <gyee> s/cloud/region/
17:27:10 <davidjc> i believe a virtual region can be considered as a lease on resources
17:27:13 <geoffarnold> Pictures in the Wiki (I hate embedded images in IRC)
17:27:33 <davidjc> you could potentially sublease, but it may not be shared
17:28:00 <marekd> so it;s not for creating a one chunk of resources spanned across multiple clouds, but also for collaborative use
17:28:22 <marekd> or wait, maybe it is...
17:28:49 <davidjc> well, the lease would span multiple disparate clouds
17:29:12 <geoffarnold> It's about gluing a chunk of resources from one cloud into another, and representing that as a region (so that things like Horizon multiregion, Heat, etc. work across the regions)
17:29:23 <davidjc> so you would create a federated homogenous cloud from disparate clouds through requesting multiple leases
17:29:40 <davidjc> N number of v regions for my new federated cloud
17:29:44 <davidjc> my thoughts however
17:30:15 <marekd> alright, from the user perspective user would need to keep token-per-cloud or just local token and mercador sub i suppose would somehow map it ?
17:30:27 <gyee> so we have service provider concept in keystone catalog today
17:30:57 <marekd> otherwise i think the burden is put on keystoneclient to be smart enough to switch between regions and know which token to use which region.
17:31:19 <davidjc> well I think the keystone-to-keystone would take care of that complexity
17:31:22 <gyee> so what's the difference between "service provider" and "region" because they are totally different concepts
17:31:41 <rodrigods> gyee, service provider is a remote trusted cloud
17:31:42 <marekd> davidjc: k2k is for authenticating, not caring of that complexity....
17:31:52 <geoffarnold> Keystoneclient needs to know where it is in the HMT tree, and which IDM applies
17:32:22 <geoffarnold> which was in the original domain stuff, IIRC
17:32:44 <marekd> geoffarnold: is the mercador by design a tool for setting up vregions or also takes care of neat abstraction of having multiple separate clouds?
17:33:24 <geoffarnold> I'm not sure what the difference is
17:33:36 <geoffarnold> A cloud is a collection of regions
17:33:39 <davidjc> so I believe the use cases presented on the wiki are uni-directional
17:33:50 <davidjc> you would simply make them bi-directional
17:34:13 <geoffarnold> Let's not over-complicate
17:34:19 <marekd> ++
17:34:39 <gyee> ++ for not overloading "region"
17:34:48 <geoffarnold> Today, all of the regions in a cloud (as seen through Horizon/Keystone) are "local"
17:34:48 <marekd> ++
17:34:54 <marekd> yes
17:34:55 <davidjc> i was simply mentioning, the model is recursive
17:35:03 <geoffarnold> in the sense of under a single admin
17:35:30 <davidjc> ++
17:36:17 <geoffarnold> Mercador simply introduces the concept of a virtual region, provided by one service provider (cloud), and integrated into a second cloud
17:36:52 <marekd> ok, so to me the burden of switching between the clouds is still within keystoneclient competences.
17:37:19 <geoffarnold> what do you mean by "switching between the clouds"?
17:37:41 <gyee> marekd, correct, its essentially a set of orchestrations underneath
17:37:45 <marekd> i will need to choose : i now want to use cloud "A"
17:37:50 <marekd> and openstack server list
17:38:02 <marekd> will list VMs from my project, from cloud B
17:38:12 <marekd> now i say "I want to use vregion at cloud B"
17:38:26 <marekd> and openstack server list will give me the list of my VMs at cloud B
17:38:41 <geoffarnold> Our assumption is that a user interacts with a CSP (via Horizon/Keystone) and sees multiple regions in the cloud
17:38:49 <marekd> it's not that typing: openstack server list will print me all VMs across all federated clouds.
17:39:20 <geoffarnold> The user doesn't know or care whether region A is local to the CSP or a federated virtual region
17:39:39 <marekd> ok
17:39:55 <gyee> marekd, its more like a single facade, pulling resources from all the clouds, and do the switching underneath
17:40:12 <shaleh> mercador is going to create a meta-cloud
17:40:17 <marekd> gyee: where?
17:40:23 <marekd> shaleh: what is metacloud ?
17:40:31 <geoffarnold> One of the goals (and a strong requirement from my product folks) is that the user experience doesn't change
17:40:32 <gyee> hahaha
17:40:42 <gyee> cisco owns metacloud now
17:40:48 <marekd> gyee: yeah
17:40:49 <shaleh> sigh
17:40:59 <geoffarnold> I'm supposed to say something about Cisco trademarks, I think ;-)
17:41:01 * shaleh doesn't speak corp very well :-)
17:41:10 <davidjc> we are creating mapping of os resources that represent the lease
17:41:18 <davidjc> a logic representation
17:42:06 <geoffarnold> One of the tasks in the data modeling is to come up with "region metadata"
17:42:43 <davidjc> real region => logical model of the regions lease of cloud provider A, leased by B
17:43:09 <geoffarnold> So a future UX extension is "tell me which region supports service X" or "is located in Germany" (data sovereignty)
17:43:13 <marekd> so you want to change region model in Keystone?
17:43:19 <geoffarnold> No
17:43:25 <geoffarnold> Layer on top of it
17:43:35 <marekd> ok
17:43:54 <marekd> more freedom then :P
17:44:03 <geoffarnold> Ideally Keystone and Horizon don't change (same UX)
17:44:04 <gyee> davidjc, I agree, it has to be seamless for end users, like creating my own playlist in spotify or something
17:44:08 <gyee> client take care of the rest
17:44:45 <geoffarnold> Today if you log in to Horizon and see five regions, how do you know which one to use?
17:44:59 <geoffarnold> It's established via out-of-band policy
17:45:22 <geoffarnold> Nothing in OpenStack captures that
17:45:57 <geoffarnold> #topic next steps
17:45:59 <gyee> no, we need to figure out a way to aggregate them
17:46:11 <geoffarnold> OK, let's talk next steps
17:46:32 <geoffarnold> I'd hoped that the use cases in the wiki were unambiguous, but :-(
17:47:04 <shaleh> geoffarnold: the use cases are good. I think what we need is a little more meat. They are very high level.
17:47:20 <geoffarnold> I need to identify core members and update the project info
17:47:42 <marekd> How are you going to do this?
17:48:00 <geoffarnold> Depends on how many volunteers I get ;-)
17:48:21 <gyee> geoffarnold, shaleh also from HP Helion and he would love to contribute, so I heard :)
17:48:24 <geoffarnold> This is the first project I've kicked off
17:48:38 <marekd> geoffarnold: understood.
17:48:41 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, are you the PTL as well?
17:48:52 <raildo> rodrigods, ++
17:49:12 <geoffarnold> Yes until the get a quorum and someone votes me off
17:49:17 <geoffarnold> we get
17:49:59 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, heh
17:50:54 <geoffarnold> There's a dedicated IRC channel, #openstack-mercador which I monitor
17:51:51 <geoffarnold> Let's post volunteer info there - because I know there are people who aren't here who want to participate
17:52:06 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, ++
17:52:09 <geoffarnold> Deadline next Wednesday
17:52:11 <iurygregory> geoffarnold, ++
17:52:17 <stevemar> i'd be willing to review, not sure if i have the time to code :(
17:52:23 <gyee> is writing code requirement?
17:52:27 <davidjc> geoffarnold, ++ of course :)
17:52:30 <geoffarnold> Review is most important
17:53:01 <marekd> I can take a look at some code too!
17:53:01 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, for reviews, I can absolute help
17:53:07 <rodrigods> marekd, ++
17:53:23 <iurygregory> for code and reviews i think i can help
17:53:31 <raildo> i can help with the hmt and reseller parte
17:53:31 <gyee> I can help motivate people
17:53:37 <geoffarnold> I'm particularly interested in people who've wrestled with the testing workflows
17:53:39 <raildo> part* :)
17:53:44 <stevemar> gyee: with a stick or carrot?
17:53:51 <marekd> stevemar: with beer and wine
17:53:53 <gyee> stevemar, it depends
17:54:03 <geoffarnold> t-shirts are the normal currency
17:54:08 <stevemar> marekd: knows how to motivate!
17:54:12 <rodrigods> geoffarnold, lol
17:54:16 <iurygregory> lol
17:54:25 <raildo> haha
17:54:26 <marekd> stevemar: that's my fuel!
17:54:36 <iurygregory> t-shirts area a good idea =P
17:54:45 <rodrigods> missing the craft beers from vancouver
17:54:45 <iurygregory> are*
17:54:52 * gyee is on the phone with the market people
17:54:58 <gyee> marketing
17:55:04 <geoffarnold> #action all - post participation intention to #OpenStack-mercador
17:55:05 <marekd> already orginising beer
17:55:39 <marekd> geoffarnold: so, what exactly does it mean?
17:55:41 <geoffarnold> And please post questions about gaps in the user stories
17:55:56 <geoffarnold> Mercador? Portuguese for "merchant"
17:56:15 <rodrigods> our native language! (cc raildo iurygregory )
17:56:21 <iurygregory> yes =D
17:56:25 <geoffarnold> It's hard finding a name that doesn't conflict in all the repos, PyPi, etc.
17:56:25 <marekd> geoffarnold: no,no, post participation intention...am i supposed to add myself (sb else) to some list, or write an e-mail?
17:56:45 <rodrigods> marekd, ++
17:56:50 <raildo> sounds good see some in portuguese on openstack :)
17:57:00 <gyee> marekd, please send the application along with the fees directly to me
17:57:08 <geoffarnold> Email to me - geoff@geoffarnold.com - or post on IRC #OpenStack-mercador
17:57:12 <shaleh> geoffarnold: the other likelt candidate is some variation on broker or agent which is highly over subscribed
17:57:30 <geoffarnold> OK, thanks all - we're out of time
17:57:38 <geoffarnold> #endmeeting