22:00:42 #startmeeting neutron_drivers 22:00:43 Meeting started Thu Jun 30 22:00:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:00:43 hi 22:00:44 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 22:00:46 The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' 22:00:54 let see if I remember how to run an irc meeting 22:01:00 :) 22:01:01 o/ 22:01:02 bear with me if I fail 22:01:21 the usual landing page: 22:01:23 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers 22:01:48 Hi 22:01:49 o/ 22:01:51 I spent this morning going over the outstanding RFEs 22:02:04 I encourage everyone to do the same 22:02:12 but we should not neglect the outstanding specs 22:02:34 i found a hole in our rfe query last week. if anyone submits code before we talk about an rfe, it jumps to 'in progress'. 22:02:44 and then we never talk about it. 22:02:52 dougwig: I clean that up regularly 22:02:57 ok 22:03:14 but yes, that’s potentially a loophole 22:03:15 such mad launchpad skills, i fear for your sanity 22:03:17 We should encourage them not to use "closes-bug" but to use "related-bug" I think. 22:03:32 carl_baldwin: that falls on deaf ears 22:03:42 I don’t know how many times I said people not to create blueprints 22:03:48 they still do 22:03:49 But, if it is documented, at least we tried. 22:03:55 Is it documented? 22:03:56 just searching on tag rfe and not tag rfe-approved will find them 22:04:01 anyhoo 22:04:08 an administration info 22:04:14 I created a new tag 22:04:16 rfe-postponed 22:04:20 armax: bugs are bad because the bot reassigns them on every patch upload. it sucks. 22:04:51 ihrachys: We're not supposed to use the bug after it's approved 22:04:54 that's what blueprints are for 22:04:56 ihrachys, armax may be we can tweak the bot to not touch the #rfe's 22:05:23 the careful reviewer can easily spot the loophole 22:05:39 amuller: then why is it suggested above we should not have bps? or I miss smth? 22:05:42 But what about us reckless reviewers? 22:05:46 when I review I go back to the bug report and if that belongs to an unpproved rfe you can always slap the contributor on the wrist 22:06:05 kevinbenton: the reckless reviewer should be stripped down of his/her +2 rights 22:06:10 :) 22:06:12 guys 22:06:14 let’s not derail 22:06:22 unless you want to :) 22:06:27 I was saying… 22:06:44 I created an rfe-postponed tag to mark any RFE that is not quite ready to be taken on 22:07:08 I think I could go apply that to a bunch of the bgp ones in confirmed. 22:07:13 things that we may want to consider in the future and that may require other stuff to land first 22:07:20 Wondering why 1509431 was moved to rfe-postponed (along with all of the BGP RFEs). There is a spec out that is being actively reviewed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322654/ 22:07:24 carl_baldwin: I already did 22:07:32 So it's different from "rfe-approved + postponed"? 22:07:34 Oh good. 22:07:52 mickeys: no-one should be stopped from reviewing 22:07:55 and may be the qos-bandwidth-guarantee "strict" that requires the nova scheduling bits... 22:08:06 I was under the impression that the BGP team was busy putting the repo in the right shape 22:08:28 if carl_baldwin or rtidwell want to take that on for Newton I am happy to change the tag 22:08:46 ajo: go for it 22:08:54 armax: Thanks, will check with rtidwell 22:08:57 "rfe-approved + postponed" sounds odd. I think 'rfe-postponed' tag is used for potential features. 22:08:59 postponed! 22:09:01 :) 22:09:28 mickeys: sure, and sorry I didn’t mean to give you a scare 22:09:31 mickeys: his irc nic tidwellr 22:09:39 mlavalle: thanks 22:09:49 I don’t see him online 22:09:57 ok, we good? shall we proceed? 22:10:00 armax: he is in the Neutron channel 22:10:06 mlavalle: ack 22:10:16 another thing... 22:10:19 did you guys miss me? 22:10:20 :) 22:10:27 deeply 22:10:31 armax, of course we did 22:10:32 No, because you were never gone 22:10:35 nope. you bugged me every single day. 22:10:36 lol 22:10:41 oh come on 22:10:50 armax, did you miss us? :P 22:11:08 or did we also bugged you every single day? :) 22:11:09 did I? 22:11:10 :) 22:11:31 I think it’s good to be back 22:11:44 let’s proceed 22:11:51 bug #1476527 22:11:51 bug 1476527 in neutron "[RFE] Add common classifier resource" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1476527 22:11:59 I have had a chance to review this...again 22:12:47 anyone had a chance to pay attention to this? 22:12:59 I know that sc68cal had a chat with a few folks 22:13:24 I did too 22:13:27 i thought this was already in progress, in neutron-classifier 22:13:39 on summit and a couple of meetings with them afterwards 22:13:42 but i haven't been following it 22:13:48 dougwig: I think there’s some lack of clarity on how this actually is supposed to work 22:13:50 neutron-classifier is nothing but data models. 22:13:53 integrate with the data plane etc 22:14:08 ahh, the integration part. 22:14:12 ihrachys: but is it meant to stay that way? 22:14:19 armax: the way I see it, TC is merely an API abstraction that can be consumed by other features 22:14:23 so no data plane 22:14:26 data models, and an API 22:14:29 exactly 22:14:43 and any backend implements its own? 22:15:05 * armax waits for an answer 22:15:10 a common library could be provided to transform TC's into openflow matches, or iptables matches, or X-random-tech-matches, if we want, and we find it useful 22:15:27 i had hoped part of the goal was unifying the many packet flow mechanisms that are sprining up in every new subproject. 22:15:33 springing 22:15:45 armax: I don't know. I would be fine to implement a service plugin in the repo. it's others who want to colocate it. I agree though that the initiative should be tightly supervised by the neutron team. 22:16:00 ok, but that’s for whoever is meant to implement TC 22:16:07 but what about the one that is meant to use TC 22:16:10 TC? 22:16:15 traffic classifier 22:16:16 traffic classification 22:16:21 armax: we MAY also produce a lib, as ajo said; but I don't think that's the first step to take. 22:16:23 kevinbenton: coffee? 22:16:33 take-coffee 22:17:12 ok 22:17:27 we should have this better outlined on the spec 22:17:28 * kevinbenton is having coffee now 22:17:32 I would suggest we implement api layer; then once features start to use it, we'll see if there is common ground for them to reuse backend side 22:17:41 ihrachys, ajo: are you guys able to eyeball the spec? 22:17:44 there are several aspects which a common lib can cover: API validation, data models, data plane... 22:17:57 armax: that's on my horizon, but I have only 24/7 22:18:10 ihrachys: you should live on a plane going around the world 22:18:16 westwards 22:18:20 sometimes I feel like I do 22:18:21 lol 22:18:23 armax, I can 22:18:31 ajo: thanks 22:18:33 let’s move on 22:18:34 i do often wonder when ihrachys sleeps. 22:18:43 bug #1552680 22:18:43 bug 1552680 in neutron "[RFE] Add support for DLM" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552680 - Assigned to John Schwarz (jschwarz) 22:18:47 dougwig, he doesn't 22:18:59 dougwig, just a tiny bit 22:19:02 Hello 22:19:05 I did review the doc 22:19:10 jschwarz: great job 22:19:14 armax: thanks 22:19:21 I was expecting to see the results broken down by tooz backend 22:19:38 jschwarz: but that’s not super important 22:19:49 once I have all the results I'll produce a readable report 22:19:54 jschwarz: great 22:19:58 I'm just not quite there yet 22:20:04 any highlights? 22:20:12 I think we collectively as a team want to decide if we want to impose an extra deployment requirement on operators 22:20:20 I don't think it's our job to compare tooz backends 22:20:26 imo not the best usage of our time 22:20:27 so far it seems like DLMs give a higher-than-expected overhead for the trivial case, so I'm looking into that 22:20:29 because jschwarz has demonstrated that the code itself can be rather simple and the overhead marginal 22:20:40 amuller: I wasn’t suggesting that 22:20:56 the doc says that experiments were conducted for the three backends 22:21:01 amuller: i think we're just trying to characterize the overall hit, not care about any one backend in particular. 22:21:02 I wondered where the results were 22:21:12 dougwig: agreed 22:21:18 but I am ok with the aggregate number if that’s what it was 22:21:41 armax: I should be back from PTO early next week (Finished my last exam about 5 hours ago! :) ) and that's my first order of business 22:21:52 hopefully I will have real results by next week's drivers meeting 22:22:00 jschwarz: congrats, and rest a bit 22:22:13 rest is for the wicked :P 22:22:14 either way, I think the decision that lies ahead is whether we can seriously impose tooz+backend on Neutron deployments 22:22:25 also, I saw armax pointing out that he's not sure if there are other core projects using tooz 22:22:33 let’s wear the distros and deployers hats for a sec 22:22:43 jschwarz: Nova is definitely not going to 22:22:45 I posted back that Cinder is currently uses Tooz quite heavily in exactly the same manner we intend to 22:23:14 https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/coordination.py 22:23:14 jschwarz: ok so it might be already available for deployments that do do use Cidner 22:23:20 armax: distros gotta suffer :P 22:23:21 exactly 22:23:29 yeah 22:23:32 ihrachys: no come on, seriously 22:23:43 ihrachys, kevinbenton, amuller, carl_baldwin ^ 22:23:46 distros will take care of tooz and a backend anyway 22:23:52 regardless of our choice in Neutron 22:23:56 cause of Cinder 22:24:01 is there a distro that *doesn't* use Cinder? 22:24:14 if not, then what amuller said 22:24:50 ok 22:25:11 let’s gather a bit more data points on the availability of tooz in an OpenStack deployment 22:25:16 as long as we required all linux distros to use a windows tooz backend, we'll all get some amusement out of this. 22:25:38 X) 22:25:39 kevinbenton: can you find out about Mirantis? 22:25:46 kevinbenton: or do you know alrady? 22:25:48 already? 22:25:59 mestery: do you roll out Cinder? 22:26:02 dougwig: the only thing Microsoft know to do well with distributed, is pushing Windows 10 to everyone distributively evenly 22:26:25 i can look into it 22:26:30 kevinbenton: please 22:26:41 amuller: what about RHEL? 22:27:08 armax: let's assume that won't be a problem 22:27:32 jschwarz: wait, https://github.com/openstack/cinder/commit/d6fabaa6cf7700cfb957e37594d0da818afea806 release note suggest that tooz MAY be used 22:27:37 ok, let’s post findings on the bug report and make a decision then 22:27:51 amuller: well, I've heard packaging zookeeper is a real pita 22:28:03 ihrachys: if there's pressure from upstream we will have to find a solution either way 22:28:23 amuller: I don’t want to be the first one though :) 22:28:31 ihrachys: I think it means that "you are now allowed to use tooz" 22:28:34 I’d rather have someone else take the blame 22:28:37 ihrachys, yes, I heard that too 22:28:51 ihrachys: since then the @synchronized decorator has been introduced in a lot of places around the code 22:28:53 java fun 22:28:57 carl_baldwin or I are gonna find out about HOS 22:29:04 jschwarz: ack 22:29:13 armax: maybe tooz authors would have interesting input about its usage 22:29:16 kevinbenton: is gonna find out aboug MOS 22:29:23 i can ask if you want 22:29:32 amuller: is going to find out about ROS? 22:29:43 how do you call yours? 22:29:45 armax: RHOS 22:29:45 RDO :) 22:29:48 right 22:29:49 i also don't think there's any harm in punting this, and letting tooz mature. the last thing we need is another reason for people to think neutron is buggy. 22:29:49 RDO 22:29:53 where’s my head? 22:30:11 ok moving on 22:30:22 bug #1563879 22:30:22 bug 1563879 in neutron "[RFE] DVR should route packets to Instances behind the L2 Gateway" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1563879 22:30:58 And to all, a good night. See you next week! :) 22:31:00 swami is not in channel 22:31:03 jschwarz: nite! 22:31:32 I think the l2gw repo has a fix targeted that works under certain conditions 22:31:58 but I am unclear on the scope of the work because the RFE doesn’t have a lot 22:32:26 this is probably a candidate for rfe-postponed if the DVR plate is alraedy full with fast-exit and such 22:32:32 carl_baldwin: what do you think/know? 22:33:00 I'm not up on l2gw related stuff. 22:33:05 I mean on DVR 22:33:17 carl_baldwin: you have your plate full already don’t you? 22:33:18 Oh, the DVR plate? 22:33:26 Mine is pretty full. 22:33:33 * armax subtly is telling carl_baldwin to nod along 22:33:36 But, there is a DVR team that we could ask. 22:33:46 I think they're pretty busy too. 22:34:05 * carl_baldwin nods 22:34:12 carl_baldwin: ok, so I leave the action to you to mark it postponed once you cleared with the team? 22:34:23 carl_baldwin: the dvr team I mean? 22:34:42 yes 22:34:46 carl_baldwin: again, there was a patch in the l2gw repo but I am unsure if that suffices to kill this RFE 22:35:20 if Swami confirms that it does, then we can move it directly to approved as the patch was rather easy to digest 22:35:23 I'll follow up on this. 22:35:32 carl_baldwin: thank you sir 22:35:39 moving on 22:35:42 bug #1566520 22:35:42 bug 1566520 in neutron "[RFE] Upgrade controllers with no API downtime" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566520 22:35:53 who wants this? 22:36:01 I do 22:36:11 i'd want it if i was an operator. 22:36:35 anyone else? 22:36:45 me too. it brings us true live upgrade. 22:36:46 Who would say they don't want it? 22:36:52 carl_baldwin: right 22:36:56 exactly 22:36:56 that, and a pony 22:36:57 people who hate uptime. 22:37:03 * armax subtly is telling people to say ‘I do’ 22:37:04 developers 22:37:11 and people who care about data schemas :) 22:37:21 We need to consider the cost though. It is going to take some work to get there. 22:37:22 ihrachys: is this "enhancement to ovo? 22:37:28 ok, so kevinbenton hates uptime and is a developer. check. 22:37:32 carl_baldwin: yes, nothing is cheap or free 22:37:40 dasm: no, ovo is means, and that's the actual goal 22:38:08 armax: i'm not a operator, but would like to have live upgrade. I do. 22:38:24 let’s put it this way 22:38:40 we can only have tooz if we have online upgrades 22:38:46 the carrot and the stick 22:38:50 if you catch my drift 22:39:06 they both sound like sticks to me :) 22:39:06 carl_baldwin: what would be the process to consider? 22:39:08 but i'm not dying for tooz, and i do want online upgrade. your carrot sucks. 22:39:20 lol 22:39:38 dougwig: don’t you want a more reliable system? 22:39:45 and a more available one? 22:39:56 dougwig: now, another question: would you want online upgrades IN OCTAVIA? :) 22:40:08 ihrachys: indeed, i do. 22:40:17 armax: DLM is not the only path to being more reliable. 22:40:18 ok test passed 22:40:30 dougwig: right, more code complexity is 22:40:45 tooz may make the code simpler but operations harder 22:40:57 online upgrades are the opposite: make the code more complex but the operation simpler 22:41:59 you want a pony ? , ok, you'll have to take care of it ;) 22:42:15 anyway we’re digressing…in general we should encourage ways to improve the availability of Neutron as a system the same way we want to encourage ways to improve reliability 22:42:19 ajo: this is cloud software; pets get shot 22:42:21 the trick is in the price to pay and who pays it 22:42:31 dougwig, crap XD 22:43:12 the pain points of the user should be given priority compared to the pain points of the developer 22:43:34 unless you kill the developer 22:43:41 ajo: of course 22:43:44 unless your software is so complex no one wants to work on it 22:43:44 but that's ok if developers are pets 22:43:50 does anyone want a detailed analysis of the cost in that particular case? 22:43:52 it's a balance like everything :) 22:44:02 sigh, openstack users ARE developers at this point. 22:44:14 I think that other projects have proven that online upgrades are doable 22:44:18 we’re not trail blazers here 22:44:22 ihrachys: if you've got it, yes 22:44:33 dougwig: I can produce it. not today, but generally. 22:44:53 ok, I guess we’re inclined to approve this rfe 22:44:55 dougwig: I think I feel some lack of understanding of the plan to get to the pony 22:44:56 any veto? 22:45:06 so maybe writing up is good anyhow 22:45:40 none 22:45:54 no vote, i'm all in favor. 22:45:57 no veto 22:46:00 same letters. 22:46:05 I'm in favor 22:46:20 me2 22:46:21 none 22:46:35 we need to figure out the order certain efforts need to happen 22:46:48 like the keystone v3 migraiton 22:46:48 easy, stop all development :) 22:46:52 note it will span into Ocata 22:47:02 i expect it to span into Q. 22:47:11 I expect to span into A 22:47:37 i think armax just segfaulted (array bounds) 22:48:01 armax: I think we are settled that contract branch will live for at least till Newton final, keystone v3 is in good shape to happen before Ocata. 22:48:11 ihrachys: ack 22:48:26 so long as we have full awareness of the other things in flight 22:48:46 then we should be good 22:49:07 movign on 22:49:15 bug #1580880 22:49:15 bug 1580880 in neutron "[RFE] Distributed Portbinding for all port types" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580880 - Assigned to Andreas Scheuring (andreas-scheuring) 22:49:25 I have failed to review this ahead of the meeting 22:49:33 it’s next on my stack though 22:49:36 This is a Nova/Neutron cross project thing. 22:49:44 ok 22:49:48 The pain is felt when doing live migration. 22:50:10 I've been trying to feel out the Nova side to see how they want to prioritize their part. 22:50:18 service VMs are another big use case here. 22:50:33 It is on the agenda for the mid-cycle in Portland. 22:50:41 carl_baldwin: it looks like one of the live migraiton patches that targeted Nova has yet to be merged 22:50:53 like this oen? 22:50:54 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/275073/ 22:51:30 or like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246910/ 22:52:35 So, this would be a whole 'nother live migration related change in Nova. 22:52:46 ok 22:52:46 armax: You thinking they're not giving these much attention or priority? 22:53:01 I thought that live migration was a priority for Mitaka 22:53:27 but there’s probably enough to make those deferred 22:53:35 armax: it was. but because for mitaka it was priority, for newton they don't think so that it's important. 22:54:08 so live migration (not everything finished) was degraded for newton 22:54:09 there are certain tasks that I’d rather align with Nova 22:54:19 in terms of priority 22:54:43 otherwise it feels like we’d do work we’d never know we’d be able to leverage from their side 22:55:09 My thoughts exactly. That's why I was trying to feel it out a bit. 22:55:23 lol 22:55:24 carl_baldwin: ok, let’s continue to gauge their interest 22:55:28 bug #1583694 22:55:28 bug 1583694 in neutron "[RFE] DVR support for Allowed_address_pair port that are bound to multiple ACTIVE VM ports" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583694 - Assigned to Swaminathan Vasudevan (swaminathan-vasudevan) 22:55:43 armax: Let's bring it up at their mid-cycle when we're all there. 22:55:57 I was asking for an update on this one, I looked at the patches but that didn’t click for me 22:56:04 anyone has anything to add? 22:56:30 no? 22:56:30 ok 22:56:35 bug #1592918 22:56:35 bug 1592918 in neutron "[RFE] Adding Port Statistics to Neutron Metering Agent" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592918 - Assigned to Sana Khan (sana.khan) 22:56:46 armax: Sorry, no. Nothing to add. 22:57:01 this seems pretty straightforward, rossella_s said she’s happy to help 22:57:49 it does seem that the data being captured here would be the same that is available through ‘nova diagnostics' 22:58:07 i see OVS mentioned. what about LB? 22:58:13 but if we allowed this we could capture this data for all ports, not just computes 22:59:06 I suppose the submitter is interesed in OVS only 22:59:29 but we can see if LB can be enough of a low hanging fruit 22:59:36 it is straightforward. question is where we implement it. l2-agent or metering-agent? 22:59:44 i am not sure which is simpler. 23:00:11 Just hit time 23:00:13 amotoki: right now it looks like it’s targeting the metering agent 23:00:16 ok folks 23:00:28 armax: yeah. the rfe says so. 23:00:34 thanks for joining, please take the time to review the specs of the approved RFEs 23:00:41 bye! 23:00:41 metering agent seems reasonable 23:00:46 #endmeeting