21:02:58 #startmeeting nova 21:02:58 * Vek was about to say... 21:02:59 Meeting started Thu Nov 1 21:02:58 2012 UTC. The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:03:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:03:01 The meeting name has been set to 'nova' 21:03:01 :) 21:03:14 i was triaging bugs ;) 21:03:17 * Vek waves 21:03:18 <-- present 21:03:20 heh. 21:03:24 o/ 21:03:24 here 21:03:27 <- here 21:03:29 i was getting cells reviews up last minute! 21:03:35 <-- present 21:03:36 #topic Agenda http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Nova 21:03:37 I'm here 21:03:41 comstud: that explains all those emails... 21:03:49 #topic Nova Cells 21:03:50 ;) 21:03:55 comstud: updates? 21:03:56 woo, cells 21:03:57 reviews are up! 21:03:59 10 reviews are up 21:04:13 * russellb will start reviewing 21:04:13 the 2nd one is still rather large 21:04:16 hey 21:04:20 the main one 21:04:42 and I'll see what I can do about splitting it more.. but I'm not sure it's possible 21:04:55 it's ok, but it will definitely be held against you 21:05:01 it's +4688, -23 21:05:03 heh. 21:05:05 ooof 21:05:06 sure thing! ;) 21:05:24 hey, that -23 is meaningful with the +4688 21:05:27 nah, looking forward to helping review and get it in 21:05:29 it means i barely changed any core code 21:05:31 well, that's OK; vish did a -17000 the other day :) 21:05:36 :) 21:05:39 true 21:05:58 i'm happy to see it went from 1 to 10 patches 21:05:59 so 21:06:05 this is rebased against another patch I have up 21:06:11 to add some hooks into service.start() 21:06:16 so markmc left some comments on the last pass at this ... has any of that been addressed? 21:06:20 how helpful would it be to be to land the devstack changes during this review? those are out there as of a day or so ago 21:06:20 which cleans up a bit of code in cells manager 21:06:26 rpc versioning stuff is what i remember 21:06:31 and another review that went in recently that hard coded some binaries in service.py 21:06:42 russellb: there's rpc vesioning in here, yes 21:06:46 versioning 21:06:50 k 21:06:53 It's at 1.0.. i dunno if that should be bumped to 2.0 21:07:06 to match other managers 21:07:08 the compute api? i guess i need to read the code 21:07:12 it's not compute api 21:07:15 or is its own API? 21:07:15 cells rpcapi 21:07:17 ok. 21:07:19 then 1.0 is fine 21:07:24 I'd think so.. cool. 21:07:29 so, it's possible to update child cells before parent cells? 21:07:36 or the other way around? 21:07:42 it depends. 21:07:45 heh 21:07:57 it depends on how you change the compute_api signatures 21:07:58 if you do 21:08:06 there's no versioning on those :) 21:08:23 I do not really like that the child cell has to re-call compute_api, TBH 21:08:42 oh right, that's where you hook in, you replace the API class? 21:08:56 I have longer term ideas there... that kinda go along with separating the nova-compute daemon 21:08:59 yes 21:09:00 at the top level 21:09:02 i guess that's convenient ... just problematic since we do *nothing* to ensure API compatibility from one commit to the next 21:09:15 correct 21:09:18 and I don't like it, really 21:09:26 It was the best way to be non-invasive for now 21:09:34 i can probably talk more intelligently after I do a pass of the code ... 21:09:53 what would be really nice is... 21:10:03 we can just proxy compute manager calls via cells 21:10:13 so we can just sub out the rpcapi class 21:10:18 so action for this week, make good review progress, and have clear things identified that need to be addressed so work can continue 21:10:45 russellb: sounds good 21:10:46 Yeah, I suspect there'll be a lot of complaints about some ugliness.. which is fine 21:10:48 would you sub it out, or just override the topic? 21:10:54 lets move on we have lots to cover 21:10:58 topic and server i guess ... 21:11:00 k 21:11:04 russellb: Good question ;) 21:11:12 #action http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/Nova 21:11:14 future brainstorming. 21:11:22 #action action for this week, make good review progress, and have clear things identified that need to be addressed so work can continue 21:11:40 #topic The state of the baremetal driver 21:12:15 who is working on that? 21:12:19 is anyone else reviewing 21:12:25 * devananda waves 21:12:27 * russellb hasn't touched it :-/ 21:12:32 I approved the first patch but no one else seems to be helping 21:12:34 :( 21:12:48 I've looked, but got a little nauseous 21:12:54 * russellb looks at markmc 21:13:04 I'll review the first one tomorrow morn at least 21:13:06 he showed a lot of interest in it before at least :-) 21:13:09 It's just such a different model than everything else is probably why and really not much pull for it (that I've seen at least) 21:13:11 cool 21:13:12 "interest" 21:13:23 markmc: yes. 21:13:25 i posted reviews on 2 of their patches today asking for small changes 21:13:42 devananda, yeah, that looked like good stuff 21:13:52 the baremetal db patch needs a lot of small work IMO 21:14:14 devananda: nice, thanks. your db session was great btw. 21:14:20 thanks 21:14:36 going to be talking more about that here in 3hr :) 21:15:03 a bunch of us are developing a toolchain for testing the baremetal patches right now 21:15:11 probably a month away from handing that to the CI team 21:15:14 (maybe less) 21:15:38 suffice to say, NTT's fork _does_ work but it's kinda fragile 21:15:57 we're pushing patches back to them, which they're incorporating pretty quickly, when we fix things 21:16:20 i'd really like to see unit tests added to their reviews.... 21:16:57 21:17:04 devananda: it sounds like you are helping a lot with that stuff 21:17:21 devananda: do you mind taking the lead on helping them get through fixes and reviews? 21:17:23 vishy, they're actually running it, which is kinda shocking :) 21:17:32 and people that help get gold stars 21:17:34 markmc: ikr 21:17:36 * russellb hands out gold stars to the room 21:18:10 we've got a bunch of people who just joined us specifically for baremetal 21:18:18 vishy: nope happy to help NTT guys with this 21:18:18 devananda: awesome 21:18:23 * markmc googles 'ikr' 21:18:33 markmc: i know right 21:18:39 russellb, ikr 21:18:52 #action devananda to help shepherd baremetal patches 21:19:03 markmc needs to spend more time hanging out with teenagers 21:19:15 o.O 21:19:16 #topic Nova Bugs 21:19:29 vishy: i think that came out wrong 21:19:32 heh 21:19:33 bugs! 21:19:40 http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs 21:19:42 36 untouched 21:19:44 #link http://webnumbr.com/untouched-nova-bugs 21:19:46 :) 21:19:47 still reasonable 21:19:55 yes we seem to be doing ok there 21:20:03 with triage at least 21:20:05 any comments on bug handling? 21:20:14 fix more 21:20:16 kthx 21:20:18 i approve of it 21:20:20 I added some 21:20:21 handle them 21:20:32 (I mean, I'm assuming I did) 21:20:34 #topic Nova Coverage for Tempest 21:20:46 mtreinish you're up 21:20:58 So, I've been working on enabling tempest, or another external program, to be able to generate coverage reports for nova. So that tempest can see what parts of nova it is exercising. 21:21:07 The nose coverage plugin doesn't report on nova's coverage when it is enabled for tempest. (obviously) 21:21:18 The first idea that I had was to use an api extension that can use the coverage api to start and stop coverage reporting and generate reports. 21:21:29 I have a WIP of this approach up on gerrit at: https://review.openstack.org/14468 21:21:41 I'm just trying to get a consensus on this approach and whether it's the best way to go about this, or if there is a better way to do it. 21:22:30 mtreinish, will that only report coverage for the api server? 21:22:37 hmmm...I do sorta like the concept... 21:22:45 mtreinish, something like eventlet_backdoor would make more sense to me, I think 21:23:07 markmc: I think that it should report coverage for everything that is being run 21:23:32 mtreinish, hmm, how does that work? 21:23:33 mtreinish: even across the message queue? 21:24:00 * markmc assumes coverage just reports the current process 21:24:27 I'm fairly certain markmc is correct 21:24:37 Vek, in general? :) 21:24:44 well 21:24:45 heh 21:24:48 markmc: it's still a bit of voodoo to me on how the actual coverage module works. I had a sample report generated but I lost it 21:24:49 (and I'd go with a slightly different pattern on the exclude ;) 21:24:51 we couldu use nova-all 21:25:00 markmc: well, as long as you agree with me, we're in agreement 21:25:04 that would get coverage on everyhing 21:25:07 heh 21:25:11 * vishy can't type 21:25:48 vishy, it'd be nice if this worked in e.g. smokestack and devstack too 21:26:12 markmc: true, I was just going for quick and dirty version ;) 21:26:23 another eventlet_backdoor command could work, right? 21:26:33 mtreinish: do you have enough to go on for the next step? 21:26:51 sounds like prototyping a backdoor version is it 21:26:57 *nod* 21:27:11 vishy: sure I'll give that a go 21:27:47 mtreinish, cool stuff, it'd be awesome to have this 21:27:59 #topic Action items from the live upgrade track 21:28:10 So, I sent the email, 21:28:14 saw no comments or complaints 21:28:26 which email, heh 21:28:30 * russellb drowns in email 21:28:30 aside from the one we're giving to westmaas, I figure I'll make blueprints of the items 21:28:40 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-October/001969.html 21:28:55 heh, I guess I can't #do things 21:29:11 this topic and the next one are pretty linked, as the next topic is the action items from api 21:29:44 FWIW, all those action items in the email sound good to me 21:29:47 if people could get on the list and take a look, assuming no complaints, we'll get those into blueprints 21:29:59 alrighty 21:30:00 yeah blueprints would be great 21:30:19 say, how much do we paid for blueprints these days? 21:30:22 all sounds good to me 21:30:24 not sure how the rpc-version-control thing will work out, could get messy 21:30:32 but anyway, still sounds good to have on "the list" 21:30:36 russellb, yeah 21:30:39 yeah, no kidding... 21:30:39 yup and yup 21:30:44 is the next one basically the same? 21:30:46 #topic Action items from the api consistency track 21:30:50 vishy: yep 21:30:53 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/002109.html 21:31:06 dansmith: you get tons of launchpad karma, which are worth like 3.4 internets 21:31:06 same approach, just content from another session 21:31:21 russellb: oh boy! 21:31:25 by the way, I never heard what, if anything, was decided about XML? 21:31:45 Vek: XML continues to be in the tree so we have something to hate 21:31:46 we're going to embrace XML and add SOAP 21:31:46 Vek: I think the general agreement is that it stays at this point 21:31:57 russellb: damn, way better :) 21:31:58 sdague: ugh. Oh, well. 21:32:05 russellb: :P~~~ 21:32:07 it stays, and like most things that are there, we should make it work and stuff 21:32:10 * vishy trips and accidentally beheads russelb with his katana 21:32:16 eeeep 21:32:22 Vek: v3 is specifically a minor set of changes, so dropping a data format seems extreme in that 21:32:25 * russellb 21:32:30 v4, well thats for others to decide :) 21:32:43 i don't see any reason to drop it 21:32:47 I'll keep lobbying for the removal of XML :) 21:33:13 have we at least decided on changes to the XML to make it easier to generate from the JSON? 21:33:25 * markmc gives XML a hug 21:33:32 sdague: do we have a place to collect suggestions for what belongs in v3 21:33:42 * Vek watches marcmc cut himself on all the sharp edges 21:33:48 vishy: not yet, that's on that todo list, blueprint and wiki page off it 21:33:50 Vek: not in v3 21:33:56 I'll get to it over the next couple of days 21:34:12 sdague: i think that is the next big thing. If we want any chance of producing v3 by grizzly 21:34:17 again, wanted at least general head nodding before ploughing ahead 21:34:20 vishy: agreed 21:34:26 markmc: how nice of you ... XML does get abused. 21:34:27 ok next topic 21:34:35 #topic 3rd Party APIs 21:34:52 so we had a summit discussion about proposing to the TC to allow 3rd party apis in 21:35:03 I'm supposed to draft an email explaining the proposal 21:35:23 but aside from support by people in nova-core I think the TC is not going to go for it 21:35:30 so I wanted to discuss alternatives. 21:35:44 vishy, you know, I think the TC decision could be interpreted as allowing gce in 21:36:09 vishy, i.e. "projects should strive for a performant, stable API which 3rd party APIs can build on" 21:36:26 vishy, we don't have that, and IMHO the implication is 3rd party APIs are welcome until we do have it 21:36:42 and until someone shows up to do the work to make it possible ... 21:36:45 i have this crazy idea of taking a weekend and making ec2 proxy all calls to compute_api through novaclient. 21:36:48 heh 21:36:51 markmc: GCE api is in beta12 so its not stable yet 21:36:51 * sdague wonders if markmc was a lawyer in a past life 21:37:06 vishy: so you'd reinvent an ec2 -> OS proxy? 21:37:09 :( 21:37:21 markmc: beta13 21:37:24 "no can really be interpreted as yes if you merely change all the letters" 21:37:43 russellb: yeah I'm not super happy with that but at least we have proof that 3rd party apis can work 21:38:01 russellb: actually, it might not be a bad idea. At the very least, as a proof of concept, it should help us understand what features OS is missing to make such things possible. 21:38:31 i was debating whether to modify ec2/cloud.py to use novaclient 21:38:47 sounds like a giant distraction from things that this group would be better off working on 21:38:47 yeh, if we are cracking v3 to do consistency, now would be the time to figure out if 3rd party APIs can actually build on it, and what we have to fix to do it 21:38:50 dansmith: Look up the gilbert and sullivan operetta "Iolanthe" sometime; the conflict is resolved by the addition of a single word to a low :) 21:39:08 or to make a version of compute.API that actaully proxies through the client like we did with cinder 21:39:12 vishy: how do you handle metadat aservices? 21:39:23 jog0: it will have to be plugins 21:39:49 Vek: heh....alright :) 21:39:54 russellb: well the problem is we haven't delivered on "projects should strive for a performant, stable API which 3rd party APIs can build on" 21:40:05 so we have nothing for GCE 21:40:28 I don't think it is really acceptable for us to just ignore that 21:40:46 I think we've enough problems without tackling that 21:40:49 vishy: anyway we can leverage the RPC versioning work here? 21:40:55 no 21:41:01 the rpc stuff is a few layers deep 21:41:02 too bad 21:41:08 I was afraid of that 21:41:34 i mean, it's software, a new rpc API could be added 21:41:38 so should i go ahead with proposing to the TC that we allow in other apis? 21:41:42 vishy, committees can say "projects should strive for foo" all day long, projects still need to prioritize stuff 21:41:45 but the existing one wouldn't work for solving this 21:42:08 or maybe markmc, the lawyer, wants to draft a proposal? 21:42:09 vishy: that's my opinion at least ... we can vote if you'd like 21:42:13 vishy, I can do that 21:42:18 nice 21:42:22 markmc: :) 21:42:30 delegation ftw! 21:42:52 how much work would be involved in versioning and stabilizing the compute.API? 21:42:55 #action markmc to take over drafting a proposal to the TC regarding 3rd party apis 21:43:06 jog0: infinite 21:43:06 jog0: it's other APIs too, right? 21:43:10 :o 21:43:11 a non-zero amount 21:43:31 #topic Grizzly blueprints 21:43:35 russellb: yeah 21:43:35 jog0, it's like versioning the DB models and everything 21:44:14 version the world 21:44:29 so, blueprints! we should have some of those 21:44:30 we have 90+ blueprints 21:44:37 there goes our hope for performant APIs... 21:44:43 and more soon... 21:44:54 I just made two blueprints this morning 21:44:55 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova 21:45:07 Vek: the APIs are performant, they're just not stable. 21:45:13 i don't think we need to version db models 21:45:56 russellb: just commenting that the more complex we make APIs (for versioning), the less performant those APIs will be 21:45:58 to solve the 3rd party api thing anyway 21:46:07 good god, that's a lot of blueprints 21:46:07 anyway... 21:46:09 Vek: ah, perhaps.. 21:46:15 ok so I could use help targetting blueprints 21:46:18 I've done a bunch 21:46:26 and i've obsoleted some leftover ones from folsom 21:46:46 vishy: get rid of that no-db-compute one.. it's bogus and nothing but trouble 21:46:54 there are a bunch that are simple approves 21:47:25 others probably need some sanity checking and research to figure out wtf it was 21:47:35 blueprints don't really provide a way to comment or discuss i guess ... 21:47:51 try to contact submitter, CC openstack-dev if needed? 21:48:19 i usually just comment on the whiteboard 21:48:24 k 21:48:51 "db-cleanup", that's pretty bold :-) 21:49:17 also could use help here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/summit-summary 21:49:25 linking the blueprints in 21:49:36 to the summit sessions 21:49:54 russellb: even if only 20% of it is completed its better then nothing 21:50:18 jog0: sure, it's good stuff. 21:51:18 vishy: I'll update the etherpad for relevant sessions I ran 21:51:42 sdague: cool thx. If you fill in summary, keep it short and sweet 21:51:46 will do 21:51:50 markmc: this seems like something to drive through openstack-common - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/basic-client-library 21:52:02 I'll follow your lead there on formatting and brevity 21:52:16 i'm doing this hopefully to help us make sure we didn't forget any blueprints 21:52:25 russellb, there is a common client effort, dhellmann did a session on it at the summit 21:52:52 russellb, https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-common-unified-cli 21:53:07 markmc: yeah. this description acts like that's different, but maybe it's not. this is about the openstack-common equivalent for client libraries (not the CLI itself) 21:53:18 is that a common library for all APIs as well? 21:53:20 markmc: blueprint points out that that's a CLI, whereas this blueprint reads more for an API 21:53:23 or is it just using the existing libs? 21:53:51 I assume it's a common library for all APIs and CLI builds on that 21:53:59 volunteers to help with bps? 21:54:01 well that would do it then. 21:54:10 you need to be on nova-drivers to approve and target 21:54:13 vishy: i will help ... hope i'm not volunteering for too much 21:54:22 i've volunteered for enough to ensure i don't code again for the next week 21:54:58 russellb: what a relief! *duck* 21:55:04 but looks like i'm not in that team 21:55:05 I hesitate to volunteer until I've got all the rest of my blueprints up and the v3 docs bits in place 21:55:06 Vek: nice. 21:55:16 ;) 21:55:38 thanks vishy 21:55:43 you are now! 21:55:50 huzzah 21:55:56 heh :) 21:55:59 so right now we're just targeting to grizzly as appropriate 21:56:02 not specific milestones 21:56:04 ? 21:56:06 right 21:56:09 and setting priority 21:56:13 ack. 21:56:15 and hitting all the approved fields 21:56:21 with a hammer?! 21:56:25 yup 21:56:30 excellent. 21:56:34 if anyone else feels like helping ping me 21:56:45 (and putting them in the summit-summary etherpad 21:56:55 #topic open discussion 21:57:20 I made a start on Boson 21:57:34 * russellb googles Boson 21:57:44 the CERN guys are very interested in it, which is good, because I have to shelve it for a little while to work on some higher-priority internal stuff 21:57:53 Vek: how appropriate 21:58:00 http://wiki.openstack.org/Boson 21:58:18 I have a patch to disable quotas by default -- and was hoping to get some feedback if thats a good idea or not 21:58:22 yeah, they commented on the appropriateness of the name when they first saw my list email about it :) 21:58:24 oh, nice 21:58:32 jog0: ++ 21:58:48 ironically, I actually wasn't referring to the Higgs. Further irony is that my bachelor's is in Physics 21:59:47 any way, very long term goal is to replace quota systems in OpenStack with Boson 22:00:21 i posted a doc outlining better ways to use sessions and transactions. review #14966 22:00:21 and I'd like some help with it, if anyone's interested (https://github.com/klmitch/boson for now) 22:00:32 devananda: OK, cool 22:00:35 if there's a better place to put that, just let me know 22:00:40 devananda: i wonder where the best place is to put that ... 22:00:43 ha 22:00:48 or if someone disagrees / etc 22:00:50 russellb: :) 22:00:52 devref ? 22:01:16 well thing is, it applies beyond nova 22:01:25 wiki sounds good, then 22:01:30 iirc, at the summit vishy suggested sticking it in api.py or such 22:01:34 though we talked about moving this particular code to openstack-common 22:01:40 well, no 22:01:50 this is more "how to use session.py" 22:01:52 so it's not such a bad place to put it for the moment ... 22:02:26 erm, so maybe it is better in common :) 22:02:54 well code isn't there yet 22:03:00 presumably your docs would move with it once it is 22:03:37 presumably 22:03:44 annnnyway, yay for docs 22:03:52 agreed, nice work 22:04:04 * clarkb sneaks in his draft change for running nova unittests under testr. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15078/ its a draft I can either add people to it or publish it and change it to WIP 22:05:09 clarkb: make in wip please, just easier to let people see things 22:05:51 sdague: done 22:06:17 vishy, #endmeeting ? :) 22:06:30 thanks vishy ! 22:06:34 #endmeeting