21:00:14 #startmeeting nova 21:00:15 Meeting started Thu Dec 12 21:00:14 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:00:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:00:19 The meeting name has been set to 'nova' 21:00:21 hello, everyone! 21:00:25 hi 21:00:28 o/ 21:00:32 hi 21:00:33 hi 21:00:41 hi 21:00:57 hi 21:00:59 #topic general 21:01:02 o/ 21:01:09 only one thing for this section today from me ... meeting time 21:01:29 i'm going to start a thread about starting to alternate the time to allow more people to attend 21:01:40 no need to get into the specific time too much now because the people it helps the most aren't here :) 21:01:50 o/ 21:01:50 so we'll meet at this time every 2 weeks 21:01:54 \o 21:02:05 details TBD ... 21:02:09 #topic sub-teams 21:02:13 hartsocks: well hello! 21:02:20 * n0ano scheduler 21:02:28 * melwitt novaclient 21:02:43 hi 21:02:45 o/ 21:02:50 russellb: sorry running late. 21:02:54 * russellb expects he may have caught hartsocks off guard 21:03:00 n0ano: you can go :) 21:03:11 right, make me go first :-) 21:03:22 talked at the meeting about no-db and the forklift... 21:03:27 some good scheduler forklift progress this week 21:03:51 the no-db has about 2 patches left, once they are submitted (within about a week) it should all be under review... 21:04:26 is anyone committed to keeping the forklift repo in sync while it's in progress? 21:04:34 you? someone else? 21:04:50 and are you looking at stackforge now? 21:04:54 we have the volunteers, I think we should submit the repo to gerrit asap 21:04:55 for the forklift, I've created the base scheduler tree, we should be about ready to create a stackforge project, lifeless should know if any other administrivia is needed 21:05:08 probably need the client tree to, I sucked this week 21:05:10 ok cool 21:05:12 I will get it done today 21:05:27 lifeless, I created the bare bones client tree and added it to the config file 21:05:29 ok, client is easier 21:05:35 n0ano: oh cool, ok 21:05:37 i think it's still included in the repo n0ano just did 21:05:39 so lets get infra on that 21:05:46 oh nice, you did that too? 21:05:57 is it just nova/scheduler/rpcapi.py ? 21:06:03 I'm an animal, what can I say :-) 21:06:13 and the associted test file 21:06:24 plus setup.py/.cfg etc machinery? 21:06:39 russellb, even less, just the top level text files (licensing and what not), the rest will be new files, should be created though the gerrit process 21:06:45 o/ 21:07:03 hmm, no 21:07:11 i think we need to keep the history of rpcapi.py 21:07:15 that's the client code 21:07:17 * beagles slinks in late 21:07:44 hmm, is that file already in the server tree? If not, I can add it to the client tree 21:07:52 yes, it's in the server tree now probably 21:08:03 it shouldn't be though, should it? 21:08:03 but it's the client code everything else uses to talk to the scheduler 21:08:09 i didn't catch that before, sorry 21:08:35 not a huge deal if we just git rm it from the server tree 21:08:46 remember, it's all scripted, NP - so you want to remove that file from the server tree and make it part of the client tree 21:08:53 please 21:08:53 yeah 21:09:07 thanks a bunch for doing this :) 21:09:09 the goal is two trees; one with the client, one the server both can run their own unit tests 21:09:23 NP, the config file changes stay the same, I'll let lifeless know when the trees are ready 21:09:24 i expect we'll have some work to do to get the tests running again 21:09:31 but we're close to the right base to start with 21:09:32 if they can't run unit tests we'll make all the jobs nonvoting so we can iterate 21:09:43 works for me 21:10:05 so good progress on two major things in scheduler land 21:10:09 anything else for today? 21:10:14 that's it for now 21:10:17 great thanks! 21:10:19 melwitt: hi! 21:10:30 speaking of clients, novaclient! 21:10:53 hi all, I have the novaclient report for this week: 21:10:54 open bugs, 118 !fix released, 77 !fix committed 21:10:54 20 new bugs 21:10:54 0 high bugs 21:10:54 31 patches are up, 7 WIP, everything been pretty active -- prompt reviews and approvals, lots of v3 api activity. 21:10:54 let's have one 21:11:31 sounds like great progress all around 21:11:40 more progress on bug triage i see, thanks a bunch 21:11:47 any major concerns? 21:12:01 no, I think things are going pretty well 21:12:11 so the 77 !fix committed number 21:12:20 does that mean there are 77 bug fixes that haven't been released? 21:12:26 or? 21:12:38 seems high since we did a release around the havana release 21:12:48 ah, no. I wasn't sure how to represent "open" bugs. 77 is the number of bugs that are neither fix committed nor fix released 21:13:04 ok 21:13:18 so we have 118 total open, 77 after you take out the ones with fixes committed? 21:13:24 right 21:13:26 got it 21:13:30 I consider those like "fixed" 21:13:38 fixed but not released, yeah 21:13:55 melwitt: did you have any link to query "fix released", "fix committed"? 21:13:55 so 41 fixes not released then 21:13:57 something like that 21:14:27 btw, timing of novaclient releases since i've been doing them has been roughly ... when someone asks for it 21:14:31 so if you have better ideas, let me know, heh 21:14:45 haha ok 21:14:52 anything else? 21:15:13 I think that's it. I'll continue going through the bugs, try to trim all that down 21:15:20 thanks! 21:15:23 hartsocks: you're up 21:15:27 cool 21:15:39 So, we have 2 BP for Icehouse already approved and ready to go. 21:15:48 woo 21:15:51 I've got one on my plate that I need to finish. 21:16:11 how's the minesweeper 21:16:11 I'll have to solicit some help on that later today or tomorrow if someone's got time/interest. 21:16:19 what kind of help? 21:16:44 on that topic, I just need to figure out how best to work with the oslo component I want to tie in with. 21:17:01 ok 21:17:04 that's a bit of a can-o-worms so I'll just leave it. 21:17:08 k :) 21:17:46 hartsocks: see my minesweeper question? 21:17:52 We have a small patch in flight related to CI stability… 21:18:04 OK, patch to nova? 21:18:06 I *could* call it out … 21:18:18 or something else? 21:18:36 yeah now is a good time to call out high priority things, especially like that 21:18:38 ugh. Taking too long for me to hunt up the link. 21:18:48 ok, feel free to bring it to open discussion then 21:18:55 anything else you wanted to mention? 21:18:55 We do have 7 high priority bugs. I spammed that out yesterday. 21:19:02 that's all for now. 21:19:03 yep, appreciate the reports 21:19:06 k, thanks! 21:19:07 #topic bugs 21:19:13 how bad is the nova bug queue this week? 21:19:24 lifeless: any bug topics? 21:19:27 hi yes 21:19:38 so I will have an email out later today 21:19:47 looks like there's been some triage progress in the last week 21:19:47 about what I want to do to the bug triage process 21:19:52 cool 21:19:59 an do you think we need a bug day to play catchup? 21:20:00 bug basically it has way to much double handling 21:20:12 so it's super inefficient - it's boiling the ocean 21:20:22 can I run a high level replacement past the meeting? 21:20:29 sure 21:21:01 My idea is that triage only touches an untriaged bug once: we do everything we can do it and then either: 21:21:07 A) leave it incomplete [pending user input] 21:21:21 or B) leave it triaged [coarse priority set] 21:21:32 or C) we bounce it to ask.openstack.org 21:21:44 the only time we touch it twice would be if it goes into A) 21:21:55 (c) would be like usage help questions? 21:21:59 yeah 21:22:02 that we mark as invalid and send them to the ML now 21:22:21 the idea with the tagging was just that there are lots of people qualified to triage subsets of the bugs 21:22:22 the list? Ok sure 21:22:22 so we have to repost it to ask.openstack.org or make the reporter do it? 21:22:29 russellb: so I've been poking around 21:22:43 not sure that's been happening in reality 21:22:54 russellb: and I don't see at the level of 'assess importance' that we need deep plumbing in each hypervisor 21:23:00 when i do triage i definitely tag stuff, but i don't know if they get love after that 21:23:05 we only get ~ 10 new bugs a day. 21:23:14 look ^ stats 21:23:15 only 10 a day, heh 21:23:46 so - the goals: 21:23:59 - ensure users don't get stuck in limbo - they either get told 'its a real bug' or 21:24:03 its a usage question' 21:24:11 - we create a pool of low hanging fruit 21:24:19 - vendor teams have bugs routed to them 21:24:57 hmmm, determining if something is a real bug could be hard w/o an env to recreate on 21:25:02 there's a bunch of bug management stuff we've been categorising as triage - like aging out bugs - that isn't triage - I want to build a separate process for that 21:25:21 ok 21:25:27 mriedem: so thats where you make a judgement call 21:25:32 so I do see a reasonable steady stream of bugs tagged api but not triaged. If we say that people have to triage at the same time as tag and they're not able to, they might just get left in limbo 21:25:43 well i'm happy to try whatever right now 21:25:55 whatever helps engage more people to get things touched 21:26:04 ok, so I'll have a draft of what I'd like to try up to the list today 21:26:14 ok sounds good 21:26:21 tldr;: 21:26:31 - much simpler /triage/ process and a group focused on making that really work 21:26:31 qa team might have good input on this since they have to do this all the time for code they don't work on 21:26:49 k, will look out for the post 21:26:49 - a separate maintenance process for aging out / reviewing idle-assigned etc. 21:27:04 another bug thing i wanted to bring up was the gate affecting stuff 21:27:12 there's been some ML posts on it the last couple days 21:27:24 also if you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs, look at everything marked CRITICAL 21:27:35 if anyone has cycles, we could use some help on those things 21:27:49 I did want to ask about this though: 21:27:51 ' 21:27:51 If the bug contains the solution, or a patch, set the bug status to Triaged ' 21:28:14 I just can't understand how that makes sense; it doesn't fit any definition of triage I've ever encountered 21:28:41 well it's either triaged or confirmed at that point by the reporter 21:28:50 why they don't push the patch makes me wonder sometimes 21:28:54 more context 21:29:17 the 'BugTriage' page treats Triaged as 'has a patch' 21:29:33 for instance - 'We should review if the patch looks indeed like a patch, and if yes, set the bug status to Triaged to show that it comes with a likely solution, ready to be implemented. ' 21:29:51 I just wanted to see if the nova folk share that understanding, or if it's a surprise :) 21:30:07 personally i don't have the bug triage wiki page memorized 21:30:13 The outside-openstack understanding of triaged is 'the urgency is known' 21:30:26 I want to make sure I'm solving the actual problem 21:30:28 * russellb hasn't really used triaged much, just confirmed 21:30:33 so, my interpretation -- which doesn't match the wording well, but makes more sense to me -- has been confirmed = "yep, it's a bug!" vs. triaged = "AND here's a reasonable proposal on how to solve it" 21:30:35 yeah, i don't use triaged much 21:30:42 devananda: +1 21:30:46 devananda: thats not what triaged means in LP though 21:30:57 devananda: it means 'importance has been assessed' 21:31:12 basically the standard emergency ward definition 21:31:17 heh just don't think we've used it that way 21:31:42 ok, so we may end up ratholing around that a little on the list. Thanks. 21:31:53 alright, let's move on 21:31:55 #topic blueprints 21:32:01 lifeless: that is redundant. [confirmed, no pri] vs [confirmed, has a priority] is sufficient triage. there is no need for a ternary state 21:32:11 general announcement, if you have blueprints targeted to icehouse-2, please check their status and make sure they are approved 21:32:11 lifeless: is triaged "confirmed by the supervisor"? 21:32:16 if not, they may be waiting on your feedback 21:32:33 I'm going to move everything not approved to icehouse-3 a week from today 21:32:50 more details here: 21:32:51 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-December/021820.html 21:33:31 one blueprint i wanted to bring up is the GCE API 21:33:33 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-December/021469.html 21:33:56 I've recommended that they work on getting it into its own stackforge project for now, because i'm sensing very little support for this 21:34:07 and in that message linked above, i'm asking for anyone that wants this in nova to speak up 21:34:20 i think we as a team need to be on board with maintaining this, at a minimum from a review perspective 21:34:46 point of bringing it up today was to raise awareness of the fact that i want that feedback 21:35:06 anyone have thoughts on that right now? 21:35:12 +1 to stackforge, i think that's going to be the route for most new stuff like new drivers 21:35:24 as I sort of mentioned in that thread, I don't think they've come up with a good reason for it needing to be in the Nova tree. 21:35:26 then you get 3rd party CI going and prove it and incubate before getting promoted 21:35:27 i wouldn't say that as a blanket statement to all new things 21:35:37 mriedem: oh, right 21:35:39 devananda: right, this is an open bug on LP 21:35:48 since they're saying it can just sit on top of the nova rest api 21:35:51 cyeoh: they even agreed that the other way was better 21:35:57 so not making a good case :) 21:36:12 russellb: stackforge for anything new that requires 3rd party CI, maybe that makes more sense 21:36:15 so regardless of whether it ends up in nova, stackforge + CI is a good start 21:36:18 mriedem: +1 21:36:36 but right now i'm not sensing much support of it ending up in nova in the near term 21:36:43 any other blueprints folks want to discuss today? 21:36:53 #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-2 21:37:02 92 blueprints targeted to icehouse-2 right now :) 21:37:06 shanewang: yes, bug supervisor == triager 21:37:10 only 4 that reviewers have committed to 21:37:32 the core sponsorship thing doesn't really seem to be taking off 21:37:55 i still like the idea though 21:38:00 maybe it'll just take longer for us to get used to it 21:38:26 has anyone other than john and I signed up for one? 21:38:41 I have a couple 21:38:47 maybe we just need to be a little more vocal with the core folks 21:38:51 alaski: ah, right 21:39:08 i have a couple 21:39:18 russellb: i'd like to bring up the deprecate-baremetal BP briefly 21:39:18 some that i have signed up for have just 1 though 21:39:23 devananda: sure 21:39:42 russellb: with the BP-needs-a-reviewer-signup thing, we don't have one yet :) 21:39:56 do you expect the driver to be ready for merging in icehouse-2? 21:40:04 russellb: also, I'd like some guidance on how ya'll would like the patch broken up. adding a new driver is, well, a lot of code to review at once 21:40:20 russellb: it should be functional by then 21:40:32 not sure how to break it up really ... 21:40:42 unless you did it by features 21:40:50 russellb: i'm not sure whether it'll be polished and all by end of jan, though 21:40:56 new driver? 21:41:00 ironic 21:41:10 polished by end of jan puts it in icehouse-3 21:41:12 supplanting baremetal driver 21:41:13 should we retarget? 21:41:22 russellb: deadline is jan22, no? 21:41:29 for merging 21:41:34 yeah 21:41:38 hopefully ready for review a little sooner 21:41:41 so should a nova ironic driver start in stackforge to get CI going first? 21:41:41 we can leave it for now 21:41:53 i don't want to commit to reviewing for icehouse-2 if you're telling me it'll be ready for review the day before :) 21:42:01 heh, fair 21:42:13 based on that timeline, i'd sponsor for icehouse-3 21:42:14 so it may be ready for some reviews now -- it's already ~ 700 LOC 21:42:25 and not feature complete yet ... 21:42:54 mriedem: good question on CI 21:42:58 this also reminds me, we don't have a core set of required APIs for virt drivers... 21:43:01 thus my question about how / whether to break it up 21:43:02 devananda: how does CI look for this driver? 21:43:10 so if you stagger in the reviews for a new virt driver and they don't all make core for the release, do you drop the entire driver? 21:43:12 mriedem: yes. we need one. 21:43:46 russellb: current CI for this is "none" because Ironic is still workin gout the deployment API 21:43:54 * russellb nods 21:44:02 so ... we have this requirement for the release, that CI exists or the driver gets pulled 21:44:07 hmm, so then how does that fit into the i2 driver deprecation plan? 21:44:10 russellb: unless some mirantis folks really work quickly, I don't think we'l lhave the level of CI I want until after icehouse release 21:44:13 unfortunately 21:44:22 (or someone else steps up to do it) 21:44:33 OK, that could realistically mean the driver slips to Jeckyll 21:44:34 mriedem: this has been coming for a while, and replaces the baremetal driver, which we're eager to drop 21:44:49 dansmith: yeah, but it still requires CI to live right? 21:44:56 3rd party CI if community infra doesn't host that? 21:45:12 mriedem: this would mean an Icehouse release without either baremetal or ironic support .....? 21:45:16 mriedem: I think it will get a little slack on the deadline, I'm guessing 21:45:25 so are we talking double standards here? 21:45:27 mriedem: we can't drop both 21:45:32 argh, i don't like the idea of not having either 21:45:43 slippery slopes... 21:45:45 maybe we grant ironic an exception given the awkward timing for the transition 21:45:59 I think the assumption is that ironic/BM is a key feature for openstack, 21:46:11 and we're in a sticky situation right now so it has to get a little bit of a pass for the time being 21:46:13 mriedem, russellb -- if you consider tripleo's testing as "third party ci" then maybe that is sufficient 21:46:18 devananda: yes, i do 21:46:27 that's all based on nova-baremetal today 21:46:35 i think we would consider that significant enough CI progress to not drop it 21:46:39 great 21:46:42 ok, i guess in general i'm interested in where the vmware, xenapi, docker, and hyperv teams are with CI 21:46:59 maybe that's for open discussion 21:47:21 AIUI, lifeless plans to switch tripleo to use the ironic driver as soon as it works (where works == does everything baremetal does for tripleo) 21:47:21 vmware has minesweeper that they're actively building up 21:47:26 yeah 21:47:27 russellb: until it's reporting on each nova patch, I don't think the tripleo testing should "count" but I also think we have to consider this an exception :) 21:47:30 xenapi has some good progress integrating into upstream CI 21:47:36 docker and hyperv, haven't actually seen anything yet 21:47:36 also we hope to bring up tempest tests against ironic clouds asap 21:47:40 russellb: so the ironic driver will get third-party CI at that point in time 21:47:41 separate to tripleo switching 21:47:45 dansmith: fair 21:47:45 russellb: but xenapi is using smokestack right? 21:47:55 mriedem: right now, but they're working on changing that 21:48:00 integrating into infra 21:48:05 when the redhat region comes in, we should be able to get 'check' status tests infra - not thirdparty. 21:48:09 ok, because smokestack doesn't run tempest afaik 21:48:19 mriedem: yep 21:48:25 and vmware has to run on all patches per the requirements 21:48:32 yes 21:49:03 s/vmware/vmware, hyperv, docker, xenapi, everything/ 21:49:18 yes yes 21:49:20 :) 21:49:25 any other blueprints? 21:49:35 baremetal-preserve-ephemeral 21:49:44 we have a sketch of all the bits up in gerrit 21:49:55 would love someone to cast an eye over the code and comment on general direction 21:50:03 #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/baremetal-preserve-ephemeral 21:50:19 maybe someone has since I asked about this on IRC yesterday - if so great,a nd sorry for the repeated q ;) 21:50:29 i'll sponsor that 21:50:36 if it's pretty far along already 21:50:50 yeah 21:50:56 assuming it's in the right direction, not a whole bunch left to do? 21:51:00 we need comment on the driver API change 21:51:15 we need to know if the HTTP API change is ok as is or needs to be a new extension 21:51:29 for v2, without even looking, probably a new extension 21:51:50 allows you to discover that the feature is present 21:52:05 not a change to the rebuild extension? 21:52:21 well, the code could be a change to rebuild, where it checks to see if this other extension is loaded 21:52:28 search for extended-services (i think) 21:52:33 lifeless: for v2 its normally a dummy extension (no content) 21:52:38 for an example of where the "extension" is just an empty dummy thing 21:52:59 and then some other code does something like ... if extension_is_loaded('my-thing'): support_my_thing() 21:53:02 I will look and see what we've got, but if one of you could comment directly on the review that would be awesomer 21:53:06 k 21:53:33 lifeless: do you have a link to which review? 21:54:01 https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/baremetal-preserve-ephemeral,n,z 21:54:04 is the series ... 21:54:12 thx! 21:54:27 https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/baremetal-preserve-ephemeral,n,z 21:54:34 i can't find the API patch in there though 21:54:53 huh, it was 21:55:00 anyway 21:55:03 we'll sort it :) 21:55:06 #topic open discussion 21:55:09 5 minutes! 21:55:32 I will find it and link in -nova 21:55:42 sounds good 21:55:56 just a reminder if people could remember to look at python-novaclient patches too? (And I'm not just saying that because I have a bunch of patches with one +2 sitting in there :-) 21:56:01 i (and some others at IBM) are sponsoring a senior project team a university, and I was looking for idea of blueprints in OpenStack that would be good to have them work on 21:56:12 at a university even... 21:56:18 mrodden: can it be ... fix a bunch of bugs? :-p 21:56:25 but that's cool 21:56:27 that will probably be the first phase yes 21:56:28 :) 21:56:30 i suggested infra/qa stuff 21:56:49 but that's a bit dirty probably 21:57:00 was looking for something that would be achievable as i don't know how familiar with python or openstack they will be 21:57:02 unless it's some neato gadget for helping automate something with bugs 21:57:10 cyeoh: indeed ... also, pro tip ... set up a "my review queue" bookmark... example: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/nova+OR+project:openstack/python-novaclient,n,z 21:57:23 but with all the projects and branches you care to review 21:58:02 mriedem: thierry just posted an infra project idea to the -infra list 21:58:15 russellb: cyeoh: Id33d5d4107f89814842a3f0b7f33690dd7e3aadc 21:58:18 mrodden: have the interns automate the release process :) 21:58:18 bah, echannel 21:58:31 no more MP branch 21:58:35 mriedem: the idea was infra-izing the schedule of #openstack-meeting and #openstack-meeting-alt 21:58:39 should check it out 21:59:03 mrodden: ^ :) 21:59:08 * mrodden shuffles through -infra mail 21:59:25 mriedem: mrodden http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2013-December/000517.html 21:59:32 sweet thx 21:59:54 with more projects moving to adjust for all timezones that could help a lot 22:00:20 we're out of time, off to #openstack-nova if anyone still wants to chat 22:00:21 thanks everyone! 22:00:23 #endmeeting