14:00:26 #startmeeting Nova 14:00:26 Meeting started Thu Mar 24 14:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:28 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:29 tic tac 14:00:30 The meeting name has been set to 'nova' 14:00:33 o/ 14:00:35 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova 14:00:37 \o 14:00:39 hi 14:00:40 o/ 14:00:40 o/ 14:00:42 o/ 14:00:44 #topic Release Status 14:00:45 \o 14:00:48 ohai 14:00:51 hello all 14:01:00 o/ 14:01:04 o/ 14:01:06 so we have RC2 proposed here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297006/1 14:01:09 hi 14:01:25 planning RC3 to include translations, and other big things we hit on the way 14:01:42 #link http://docs.openstack.org/releases/schedules/mitaka.html 14:01:51 o/ 14:01:59 looking for RC3 week before April 4th I think 14:02:09 i.e. next week 14:02:11 yeah 14:02:17 sounds reasonable 14:02:21 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=mitaka-rc-potential 14:02:22 we have one bug in the pipe 14:02:26 trying to catch things in there 14:02:31 although also the ones that get merged 14:02:49 this is the current rc3 regression fix https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296305/ 14:03:05 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-priorities-tracking 14:03:06 need danpb / jaypipes to review that 14:03:10 o/ 14:03:11 is for newton-ey things 14:03:37 mriedem: yeah, I should created the new milestone to target that one 14:04:00 any more release things? 14:04:16 there are 5 new bugs in the last 24 hours which aren't looked at yet 14:04:18 mriedem is doing a great job approving BPs to kick things going again 14:04:51 markus_z: one of them is, just not triaged :p 14:05:04 #help if you have a -2 on a patch, ask about getting your blueprint (and spec) approved for Newton, then ping in IRC to get the -2 removed 14:05:14 usual things for -2 removal ^ 14:05:21 #topic Bugs 14:05:24 so we got onto bugs there 14:05:41 markus_z: the floor is yours 14:05:58 only the new bugs within the last 2 days 14:06:04 mriedem: looking at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/296305/ now. 14:06:10 I couldn't look at them yet and I don't know if they could affect the release 14:06:21 rest looks fine. Need volunteers as usual 14:06:26 i'll look this morning 14:06:32 mriedem: thanks! 14:06:48 reminder: Nova bugs team meeting is happening each Tuesday 14:06:52 cool, sounds good 14:06:54 nothing more to say right now 14:06:56 o/ 14:07:00 mriedem: any stable things to raise? 14:07:00 shite 14:07:02 https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1561357 14:07:02 Launchpad bug 1561357 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "VM deployed with availability-zone (force_hosts) cannot be live migrated to an untargeted host" [Undecided,New] 14:07:06 ^ might be a regression 14:07:30 bauzas: ^ 14:07:30 that sounds that way, sounds like something bauzas and pkoniszewski were looking at 14:07:32 i don't have any news for stable, could use some help from other nova-stable-maint cores to go through the stable/liberty stuff that already has a +2 14:08:17 mriedem: so we discussed on that with johnthetubaguy this EU morning 14:08:42 thats why I remember it, that was before lunch though 14:08:45 mriedem: I don't think it's really a problem, because if operators force a destination when booting, they also need to force a destination when migrating it 14:08:56 o/ 14:09:12 bauzas: we should look if its easy to drop that force on the re-schedule 14:09:22 bauzas: we can talk in -nova after the meeting 14:09:26 sounds like a regression though 14:09:28 if its terrible then we can skip the backport 14:09:32 johnthetubaguy: that looks trivial 14:09:34 I dunno, 14:09:45 seems like a thing to just document the workaround 14:09:49 johnthetubaguy: I'm not worried by the fix, I'm more worried by the logic 14:10:03 it does over-ride the users preference, which is kinda what the force host is for 14:10:12 dansmith: we should just add a reno I guess 14:10:13 (Sorry I'm late) 14:10:20 s/should/could/ 14:10:23 johnthetubaguy: kinda seems like it yeah 14:10:23 but like mriedem said, we can discuss that in -nova 14:10:27 yeah 14:10:34 #topic Open discussion 14:10:40 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-summit-ideas 14:10:57 I was going to ask about feature classification stuff 14:11:15 I have some help to start populating the matrix out, so hope to get that started 14:11:26 to help increase our test coverage, or at least highlight the holes 14:11:39 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/264719 14:11:46 but not quite sure how to track it 14:11:51 maybe a bp? 14:12:17 PS, there is nothing more on the agenda now, so feel free to pipe up with questions 14:12:46 I would have something? 14:13:05 mriedem: what do you think about the above, just use a blueprint to track it? 14:13:24 johnthetubaguy: i was going to say i was indifferent, specless bp would be fine, i haven't read the change yet though 14:13:38 like... 14:13:41 it's documentation, right? 14:13:49 specless bp sounds fine I think. 14:13:51 sdague is redoing the api docs, but i don't think we have a bp for that, and i'm fine without one 14:13:52 if so, +1 to a specless BP 14:14:04 just to point to something 14:14:11 just in case we need a whiteboard 14:14:12 yeah, its just docs, specless BP seems good, for a pointer 14:14:21 works for me 14:14:25 mriedem: we will have something to point at once we've baked out the POC, probably blueprint + big etherpad 14:14:40 sdague: yeah, pointers are good, that works 14:14:41 sdague: ok 14:14:57 i think markus_z had something 14:15:21 I just wanted to shout out the start of the discussion how we handle RFEs from ops 14:15:31 RFE? 14:15:34 i brought that up in the ops meeting yesterday 14:15:39 request for enhancement 14:15:39 Request for Feature Enhancements 14:15:42 feature requests 14:15:42 ah, right 14:15:58 yeah, thats basically the neutron specless bp process 14:16:01 yeah, the wishlist bug reports clutter up the bug list 14:16:05 there were 2 ops guys in the meeting, the ptl said he'd try to stoke up some replies from other ops on the ML 14:16:20 johnthetubaguy: i think neutron actually uses LP bugs though 14:16:41 markus_z is proposing wishlist type / RFE bugs start in the ops ML 14:16:54 right, the neutron RFE process mostly replaces specs 14:16:55 OK, gotcha 14:17:24 #link ops RFE ML thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-March/009942.html 14:17:46 I'm bringing it up here in the meeting but put it on the Newton summit etherpad too 14:18:05 It's fine to trigger the discussion but I cannot make a decission without concensus 14:18:27 I don't find people for bug triage, not sure how to find people to work on wishlist items 14:18:43 like i said, raginbajin (ops PTL) was going to try and wrassle up some feedback from the ops people 14:18:47 long story short, I'll pester you at the summit with that topic :) 14:19:03 so i think we sit on this for at least another week or two 14:19:13 mriedem: yep, that's ok 14:19:15 feels like a good thing to discuss in an ops session at the summit 14:19:23 yeah, raginbajin also suggested that 14:19:26 (with a concrete proposal to review) 14:19:28 cools 14:19:40 the proposal is pretty concrete in the ML 14:19:52 at least, as concrete as a new thing should probably e 14:19:53 *be 14:20:08 yeah, sorry, I was unclear 14:20:50 that's all from my side 14:21:11 unrelated, i was going to point out the newton specs review etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-spec-review-tracking 14:21:12 cool 14:21:19 it's also in the ML 14:21:42 I would have the maintenance API thingy as now have some kind of spec. Yes, API meeting was yesterday 14:21:45 i've mostly been interested in re-approving things from mitaka rather than looking at new specs 14:21:46 mriedem: we did talk about just using the single etherpad, rather than the two last time 14:22:08 johnthetubaguy: we did? :) the review priorities etherpad gets to be a monster 14:22:25 I stopped looking at it because it split 14:22:25 FWIW 14:22:37 ok 14:22:51 I think we need to keep sub team notes out of that etherpad 14:22:54 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-spec-review-tracking started as mostly a way for me to keep track of how many previously approved things we've approved again 14:22:56 I think there's too much on it 14:22:57 lets just go back to review links 14:22:59 but I think the split was wrong 14:23:14 it needs to go on a diet that etherpad 14:23:18 to get it useful again 14:23:24 heh 14:23:27 ideally, it should be a gerrit dash 14:23:41 bauzas: http://tinyurl.com/hjhu75e 14:23:46 how we generate the dash url is the key question 14:23:48 I don't want a gerrit dash I think 14:24:02 unless it's hand-cultivated like the etherpad once was 14:24:10 it needs to be "top ten or less" for each priority, IMHO 14:24:17 mriedem: that dash is not saying which changes are prioritary and which not 14:24:27 yeah, I tried to ask for top 3-5, but I would settle for top 10 14:24:28 dansmith: "top ten" by which order? 14:24:36 markus_z: priority owner order 14:24:38 bauzas: technically we haven't set priorities for newton 14:24:41 dansmith: fortunately, we can limit a gerry query, but sure we can keep the etherpad short 14:24:42 right, the subteam's own order 14:25:15 bauzas: its delegated in the etherpad, thats not that easy in a gerrit dashboard 14:25:30 okay, sounds you got my convinced that I didn't had a great idea :p 14:25:41 bauzas: but short isn't the only problem 14:25:42 let's keep the etherpad, but keep it short 14:25:50 bauzas: if gerrit had a scoring system with priorities, then yes :D 14:25:57 dansmith: +1 14:26:06 so we're asking that subteams just lump 3-5 reviews into the newton review priorities etherapad? 14:26:09 dansmith: what's the other problem with etherpads ? 14:26:12 and those 3-5 are code and specs? 14:26:22 mriedem: yeah, maybe go top 10, and include specs and code? 14:26:24 except the brevity ? 14:26:32 mriedem: that's my preference.. ten or less 14:26:53 are we mentioning gerrit topic queries ? :p 14:26:53 if its short, it will hopefully stay useful 14:27:06 topics are fine 14:27:08 (with me) 14:27:08 ie. one topic and 20 changes ? :D 14:27:12 I do too 14:27:12 one problem i have with the etherpad of doom 14:27:15 is the order 14:27:21 i tend to only focus on the things at the top 14:27:31 now if you're cells v2, that's great for you 14:27:35 bauzas: 20 patches in a topic as listed means they're in the order of git priority 14:27:37 mriedem: its normally priorities at the top, other stuff below 14:27:46 johnthetubaguy: true 14:27:46 dansmith: yup, agreed 14:28:01 johnthetubaguy: but that's also how we end up having specs re-proposed for 3 releases 14:28:06 mriedem: hopefully with less patches we get more reviews on your screen ;) 14:28:24 mriedem: the problem with three etherpads is I focus on none of them :) 14:28:37 yeah, so i'm fine with a single etherpad to rule them all 14:28:43 wfm 14:28:46 i'm fine with keeping each section <10 14:28:55 so seems worth a try 14:28:57 let's put that in big super f'ing bold header at the top 14:29:02 +1 14:29:08 it was at one point It hought 14:29:09 how about each subteam can put two reviews at the top of the page, everything else in sections below? 14:29:10 for liberty 14:29:26 and if they don't keep that list of two up to date that's their own damn fault 14:29:27 cdent: there are like 30 subteams 14:29:33 make it one then 14:29:34 yeah, not a good plan 14:29:43 or get rid of some teams :( 14:29:47 yeah, priorities at the top, subteams below 14:30:06 so how about we just delete all the existing stuff 14:30:11 it sounds like none of this actually is addressing the real problem, but if you want to put bandaids on it, it has to devolve the responsibility for attention to the teams 14:30:21 if its an active subteam, it will re-appear? 14:30:31 johnthetubaguy: not a terrible idea 14:30:34 I like that 14:30:36 johnthetubaguy: you mean periodically delete the subteam section? 14:30:44 dansmith: well at least on release boundaries 14:30:53 ah, sure 14:31:05 mriedem: you could just rearrange the priorities in the etherpad every few weeks 14:31:08 if you think it'd help 14:31:21 like if you feel like one thing is getting neglected, push it to the top 14:31:33 yeah i might do that at some point 14:31:40 * cdent collects money to bribe mriedem 14:31:51 to be fair, 14:31:56 cells has been at the top for like two cycles, 14:32:03 and it gets very little review 14:32:04 IMHO 14:32:05 yes, cells v2 is obviously a prioirty 14:32:12 dansmith: agreed 14:32:14 right, so this leads into my bigger issue 14:32:21 and why i started https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-spec-review-tracking 14:32:24 so I'm not sure how much pagerank matters :D 14:32:27 mriedem: dansmith: yeah, release boundary is the normal thing we do, we could do it at the milestones, but that seems a bit rude 14:32:41 we have a large backlog of re-approvals 14:32:42 I thought that's what mriedem meant 14:32:44 seen at the top of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-spec-review-tracking 14:33:18 personally, i would like to freeze spec approvals for new things that are not directly related to priorities for the first milestone 14:33:49 i know that's not popular probably 14:34:18 i wanted to go over more of this at the summit, but the problem with that is, it's 4 weeks away still 14:34:27 mriedem: I think it's valid to give a warning that the next Ocata cycle could handle it that way 14:34:39 (doing unpopular things)++ 14:34:40 markus_z: i'm not sure why we couldn't do that now 14:34:51 mriedem: we have a bit backlog of specs that have code, and need reviews, so it seems like a good way of dealing with that I guess 14:34:53 we have A LOT of carry over from mitaka (and previous releases) 14:35:02 mriedem: +1 14:35:09 we have a heap of stuff from kilo 14:35:10 i really really want to flush what we have before saying we're going to take on new things 14:35:14 and then never reviewing them 14:35:21 +1 14:35:35 orbital mechanics: slow down to speed up 14:35:41 this is why i've just been looking at previously approved specs 14:35:42 mriedem: to be honest, I don't have an overview of the backlog. I thought people could percieve it as on too short notice. 14:36:01 markus_z: so people are going to complain, for sure, 14:36:04 from what I understood, is the Ocata cycle planned to be shorter ? 14:36:09 so the thing is, if we approve their thing, its not likely to merge anyways 14:36:13 markus_z: but people are going to complain when we approve their spec and never review their code either 14:36:15 this is just advance notice, in some ways 14:36:24 what mriedem said 14:36:28 mriedem: true. probably the bigger complain then 14:36:44 yeah, i'd like to at least be honest and get a more manageable chunk of stuff to focus on 14:36:44 markus_z: people complain more about getting bumped cycle after cycle 14:37:00 now there might be stuff that semi-priority, we could always see where that lands 14:37:11 my hope is that with fewer things to focus on as a team, we can chug through more things 14:37:15 edleafe: agree 14:37:31 and once we start to get a baseline, we can start adding new things in 14:37:32 so thats where I think we need to make the etherpad work better 14:37:42 limit the work in progress, so we get more done 14:37:46 mriedem: we should give an onboarding chance to the topics which need to be finished 14:37:47 johnthetubaguy: agreed 14:38:00 markus_z: onboarding chance? 14:38:16 markus_z: i'm really just talking about the backlog right now 14:38:25 which means things which need to be finished 14:38:25 mriedem: yeah, me too 14:38:45 so, i think there are 2 very easy things to do to get started, 14:38:49 so maybe we are having violent agreement here? 14:38:52 1. clear the review priorities etherpad 14:39:09 just for a general note, it's not really a review problem, it's rather a commitment problem 14:39:12 2. start adding in things (including specs) which are approved, which right now should only be previously approved tihngs 14:39:29 http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/nova-openreviews.html just tells us that patches are mostly waiting for submitters rather than reviewers 14:39:39 mriedem: The folks which don't get bp approved could spent effort on the approved backlog items. I think they need pointers how to help there. 14:39:56 mriedem: not sure if I can make myself clear 14:40:02 markus_z: that's the theory, but it rarely pans out that way 14:40:04 markus_z: i see what you're saying 14:40:09 yeah 14:40:23 for example, let's say today we said the only review priority is cells v2 14:40:25 mriedem: so what if we just do no spec approvals until summit? this next four weeks is just for flushing the queue 14:40:25 dansmith: oh, ok, I lack the long time experience here 14:40:25 mriedem: review stuff, and do bug fixes? there quite a lot of stuff, mox, centralize config, etc 14:40:32 dansmith: i like that 14:40:32 expecting basically only previously approved priorities to go 14:40:42 mriedem: not the whole n1, but just until summit 14:40:53 dansmith: that's still a month, so i'm fine with that 14:40:59 so that could work 14:41:04 they were previously approved, so they're clearly important 14:41:06 sounds reasonable 14:41:09 markus_z: but yeah, there are always other things to help on 14:41:14 and we don't approve new things until we decide on new prios 14:41:15 bugs, cleanup, reviews, etc 14:41:23 I'm in for that 14:41:37 dansmith: and we keep non-prio spec freeze ? 14:41:37 bugs cleanup dashboard: http://45.55.105.55:8082/bugs-dashboard.html 14:41:43 bauzas: yes 14:41:46 until summit at least 14:41:48 bauzas: no new spec approvals 14:41:51 that gives us a month to see how this goes 14:41:58 only re-approvals and landing things that were approved already 14:42:02 yeah, I guess we could limit the number of approved low priority blueprints at any time, post summit, etc, but thats for later 14:42:04 dansmith: that, I understood 14:42:25 dansmith: I just wonder if people want to add a new spec post-summit, and we cut those at N1 14:42:26 johnthetubaguy: i'd like to wait for after the summit 14:42:29 #info no new spec approvals until the summit, at which point we can come up with a plan for the cycle 14:42:36 mriedem: yeah, agreed 14:42:52 okay 14:43:00 bauzas: yeah, but you can propose a spec whenever you want 14:43:01 bauzas: i imagine there will be some wiggle room for that in n-2 14:43:12 bauzas: just don't expect it to get approved 14:43:14 right, spec proposals is totally fine and encouraged 14:43:18 dansmith: ++ 14:43:26 so there is a downside here, its good to resolve conflict in spec reviews in person at the summit 14:43:36 but I think we should ignore that, we have enough stuff anyways 14:43:37 dansmith: yeah, okay, I got it 14:43:45 johnthetubaguy: only 24 hours in each day 14:43:53 johnthetubaguy: yeah, i think that has to take a backseat 14:43:55 johnthetubaguy: can't win 'em all 14:43:57 johnthetubaguy: people can get on hangouts 14:44:00 johnthetubaguy: you win some you lose some 14:44:06 plus we will probably have a meetup 14:44:09 mriedem: dansmith: yeah, +1 14:44:11 hehe 14:44:13 there's always the midcycle :) 14:44:33 i'll post something to the ML on this too 14:44:41 mriedem: was just going to say.. cool 14:44:46 are we done here? 14:44:52 * mriedem expects angry feedback 14:44:52 I think we are 14:44:52 +1 14:45:11 +1 for being done 14:45:13 * johnthetubaguy passed mriedem the padded kevlar gear 14:45:20 heh 14:45:29 #endmeeting