13:00:03 #startmeeting nova api 13:00:04 Meeting started Wed Mar 16 13:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:00:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 13:00:09 The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' 13:00:15 who is here today? 13:00:24 hi 13:00:29 o/ 13:00:54 o/ 13:01:31 hello everyone, hope this new time is good for everyone 13:02:18 I guess it's still a little early for ken'ichi 13:02:28 yea, little bit late but its fine. 13:02:38 o/ did not have this in my normal irc list 13:02:48 gmann_: thanks :) 13:03:09 sdague: yea, that channel should be used by other team 13:03:20 humm 13:03:27 anyway let's run the meeting 13:03:31 #topic Nova Microversion testing in Tempest 13:03:44 gmann_: your turn 13:03:50 alex_xu: yea, 13:04:00 so only 1 patch left for framework side 13:04:02 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284414/ 13:04:24 sdague: if you can have look, Kenichi has +2 on that 13:05:01 after that lib has all interface and all compute service client support of microverstion setting 13:05:06 gmann_: I'll put it on the list, I'm chugging through some docs things at this point 13:05:18 sdague: sure, thanks 13:05:47 sdague: also this one v2.20 - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258391/ 13:06:02 others are doc things etc which can be reviewed later 13:06:38 That's all from my side 13:06:48 gmann_: thanks for the work! 13:06:59 np :) 13:07:30 alex_xu: it will be nice if you review this one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261426/6 13:07:44 will get if anything missed or more details needs there 13:08:22 gmann_: yea, will review it 13:08:32 alex_xu: Thanks 13:08:36 gmann_: np 13:08:41 #topic open 13:08:42 gmann_: thanks, I missed that 13:08:51 oomichi_: good morning :) 13:09:03 oomichi_: Thanks, please check, and this too https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258391/ 13:09:06 alex_xu: hi, morning 13:09:12 FYI I started looking at the api-site, and the path forward there 13:09:14 :) 13:09:17 oomichi_: other are already reviewed by you. 13:09:35 gmann_: ok, I got it 13:09:37 and I'm not convinced that the swagger path is going to get us anywhere useful anytime soon 13:09:38 already open? 13:09:38 sdague: I saw one patch about doc, but not sure what is the final goal 13:09:54 alex_xu: right now, this is experimentation 13:10:31 sdague: alex_xu we want to have version vise doc right 13:10:33 because the amount of tooling and extensions we're going to have to write around swagger basically means we're 1 to 2 years away from an API site based on that 13:10:41 if ever 13:10:58 and what would it look like to go to RST as our master format instead 13:11:04 sdague: actually I take look at fair-slipper, looks like it didn't used in the real world, so it worth to worry about 13:11:24 right, and fairy-slipper isn't really a swagger parser 13:11:37 it takes one particular yaml subset of swagger and makes a thing 13:12:07 also, swagger doesn't really map to our APIs, because it has a very specific representation expectation 13:12:19 which... if we were starting from scratch, I'd totally be fore 13:12:23 but we're not 13:12:45 it's a tool that's really designed to be used in the design stage of an API to make a good API 13:13:03 sdague: for microversion and action, maybe we can use extend swagger to support that, as swagger support some kind of extend. 13:13:18 alex_xu: then we're writing 100% our own tools for transform 13:13:39 so the answer is, do we have 4 to 5 engineers to just maintain a swagger toolchain? 13:13:41 sdague: that is a reason why we need to apply swagger without changing current nova code, right? 13:13:42 sdague: good point, that is true 13:13:46 s/good API/API/ 13:14:29 oomichi_: here are the problems as I see them 13:14:31 sdague: so it is necessary to create swager doc from current code without changing 13:14:39 oomichi_: that's not possible 13:14:57 or, more importantly, that's extremely hard 13:15:13 sdague: ah, I see your poing 13:15:20 s/poing/point/ 13:15:29 oomichi_: sdague with existing code and doc string etc, it would have much result doc 13:15:31 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-site-in-rst 13:15:48 yeah, current api design is too nova specific on some apis 13:16:06 gmann_: it's not even that, have you looked at the way request body is modeled? 13:16:44 my top concern is the following 13:17:05 sdague: humm, one example i saw where it adds param and type etc not whole body 13:17:27 1) the api-site is very wrong and very confusing, and being in wadl with a toolchain no one understands, is very hard to fix 13:17:47 we need to solve docs to our users as a top priority 13:18:49 anyway, this week is a week of experimenting about other ways forward 13:18:52 for me 13:19:13 annegentle is on vacation, we were going to sync back up when she gets back to figure out what the options look like 13:19:28 because people have been saying swagger since... 2013... ? 13:19:35 and we're effectively no where still 13:19:50 sdague: I think it is wrong to suggest that the delay there is because of swagger 13:19:56 the delay is because of humans 13:20:03 cdent: sure 13:20:19 (which is not to say that going rst is wrong) 13:20:39 cdent: if you think you have an approach that gets us there with swagger in the next cycle, I'm happy to hear about it 13:21:11 but in reading the swagger spec, looking at the ecosystem of tools, I don't see that happening for 2 - 4 cycles in the best case 13:21:55 * cdent nods 13:22:47 it's also amazing in reading our api docs to do this reformating, how inaccurate they are :( 13:23:11 looks like we also need some tool to translate to rst also. 13:23:14 but maybe that would be more fixable if it was easier for people to see what it looks like 13:23:25 alex_xu: yeh, annegentle has some bits of that 13:23:37 https://github.com/annegentle/wadl2rst 13:23:48 anyway, this was mostly an FYI that an experiment is ongoing 13:23:49 ah, cool 13:23:55 no decisions are made at this point 13:24:14 I figured I need to at least hand convert all the methods on /servers/ to get a feel for what this would be 13:24:39 and in doing the process a bunch of interesting ideas on how we might have some structured data has emerged 13:25:51 will hopefully have more data in a week 13:25:55 sdague: I suspect you are already on this, but please try to avoid reinventing swagger, raml, etc :) 13:26:10 cdent: sure 13:26:24 but part of it is about scope to completion 13:26:30 except doc, anymore expectation on swagger for us? 13:26:49 if we can get to an rst base, with a plug point for structured data 13:27:03 we can start with something a bit quick and dirty to build tables 13:27:18 and then swap out with something more standardized later 13:27:25 once we can see the whole publish workflow 13:27:36 sdague: if you need any help on some experiments, please let us know, we can give some TZ advantage here. 13:29:02 gmann_: sure, right now I need to just figure out some working patterns 13:29:28 sdague: ok. 13:29:46 I expect whenever we come up with a repeatable pattern, no matter what it is, we'll need a lot of hands to do some of the cleanups, as any of the translations are only 90% 13:30:15 all from me for now 13:30:19 yea, let's see more, hope we can resolve this problem in newton, as our api version is 2.25 now 13:31:01 ok, I'd like to try digging swagger thing in this 2 weeks with some actual prototype 13:31:52 * alex_xu happy to help on both side :) 13:32:05 with reviewing doc patches 13:32:24 oomichi_: ok, I didn't see a path forward for lots of our constructs in Nova 13:33:10 sdague: yeah, I am feeling now that is difficult. 13:33:23 and, again, realize that these tools were meant to be part of the design process. And when they are, the results are good 13:33:40 but trying to adhoc apply them later, is really hard, if not impossible 13:34:10 actually I think swagger will be interface between nova and doc team 13:34:32 sdague: yeah, and nova api itself is also adohoc. very inconsistent 13:34:53 alex_xu: why do you think that? 13:35:52 that somewhat assumes that swagger is a familar common language to both sides and the easiest way to communicate 13:35:59 sdague: I thought there will be some UI, like fairy-flipper doing. But if rst is easy to public the api site, then I think rst will probably good way for now 13:36:02 and I'm not sure any of that was true 13:37:03 alex_xu: yeah, I also am feeling. swagger will be good to create api-site automatically from the nova code to doc team 13:37:13 that is just a hope 13:37:36 and just experimental 13:38:28 oomichi_: yeah, but more worry about the progress of swagger support in doc team. 13:38:44 anyway let us dig into more, then revisit this problem 13:39:26 alex_xu: yeah, it is nice to make the problems appear cleary 13:39:39 so anymore open today? 13:39:54 I have one 13:40:01 Kevin_Zheng: please go ahead 13:40:18 https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/juno/implemented/user-defined-shutdown.html 13:40:22 we found this 13:40:50 about user defined shutdown 13:40:56 Kevin_Zheng: I was pretty sure we always sent the graceful shutdown now 13:41:03 I was looking in that code the other day 13:41:12 yes I mean 13:41:18 I guess most of part are implement, except api bit 13:41:25 yes 13:41:35 so we want to continue the API job 13:41:44 already contacted the author 13:41:51 Kevin_Zheng: well, I think DELETE already does this now, no? 13:42:03 he have no time so I will do it 13:42:22 yes I think he finish the delete, reboot job 13:42:35 Kevin_Zheng: ok, I think we need a new spec now though, because I'm pretty sure that libvirt *always* sends the graceful shutdown to the domain 13:42:48 sdague: agree 13:42:52 just want to now if anyone are against this now 13:43:01 Kevin_Zheng: so what are you proposing exactly? 13:43:16 user can define graceful or hard 13:43:20 like this 13:43:31 like soft reboot and hard rebbot 13:43:34 reboot 13:44:26 ok, I'm not convinced the API as written there is the thing we want, lets start a new spec on this 13:44:42 I only remember there is image properties to set this. 13:44:44 OK, I will do that 13:44:53 and do the analysis about how this all works today 13:45:05 sure 13:45:06 and which operations are really needed here 13:45:14 I can see reboot for sure 13:45:18 sure 13:45:19 thanks 13:45:30 sdague: +1, actually I'm not sure delete do that 13:45:31 I will put out some details next time 13:46:19 alex_xu: right, I could also see a force DELETE that bypasses the graceful shutdown 13:46:19 ok, any open today? 13:46:26 when will we talk about https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-api-ideas ? in the summit ? 13:47:36 actually we talk about api doc today 13:48:10 how about we talk each item next week? 13:48:15 sounds good 13:48:26 yeah, I just want to know when we will talk and won't miss it 13:48:28 :) 13:49:01 yea, cool 13:49:21 so any more open today? 13:49:55 if not, we will close the meeting a little early 13:50:08 3... 13:50:14 2.. 13:50:20 1. 13:50:30 ok, thanks for all! 13:50:34 thanks~ 13:50:38 Thanks all 13:50:40 * auggy just caught the tail end!! 13:50:40 thanks 13:50:41 #endmeeting